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 MWHistorian wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:

Eldarain wrote:This thread is a running monument to poor internal balance.

It is just as much a testament to lack of player skill and the need to win as easily as one can.

"Just play better!"
Everyone take a drink!

L2P everyone it not the unit that is bad, it you!

 MWHistorian wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:

Eldarain wrote:This thread is a running monument to poor internal balance.

It is just as much a testament to lack of player skill and the need to win as easily as one can.

"Just play better!"
Everyone take a drink!

He does have a point, though. There have been dozens of units listed in this thread with perfectly viable tactical utility, to the point that I've created this thread to discuss just that. It does seem that if a unit is not the absolute best in its category, an unfortunate amount of people just don't want to know.

My poor Possessed. They just are not fun. Everything they do, my Kharn + Khorne Chosen squad can do too, and they are so much cooler.

Similar thread a while back and I still cant find a decent use for my SW landspeeders. Just cant seem to make them work!

Or Penitent Engines. Completely useless.

The thing with Possessed is not that they are overpriced. I can live with that. It's just that they have no clear thing they are supposed to do. Khorne Chosen are overpriced too, but that's okay, because when they do get a charge they can wipe out a full Slugga Boyz mob in a single-round orgy of violence, but the Possessed can't do that. They can't do anything except die as fast to CSM for double the price.

 MWHistorian wrote:
Or Penitent Engines. Completely useless.

I’ve seen them used to good effect. In the last double tournament I went to my parter was fielding a group of them. This is back in 6th. Both of our lists were full of stuff we liked, but didn’t field very often.

First game they were playing defense, and kept one of our objectives free. They tangled with some demons. Not sure of all the details, but at the end of the game at least one was still standing, and the objective was OK

Second game was vs. a DE/Necron pair. They were very aggressive and were in our deployment zone turn one. Those DE bikes things don’t deal well with HFs. I don’t think they lived to the end of that game, but did burn/blender quite the pile of stuff.

Third game they ate a drop pod worth of marines. We kinda steamrolled our opponents, so they spent most of the game trying to find something to kill IIRC.

I’ve been on the receiving end of PE charges in editions past. All it takes is them hitting your line one time to earn some respect. And the paired HFs can cause some pain. They no longer need to charge forward stupidly, so you can hold them back if needed. They make very nice defensive units vs. aggressive armies. When you don’t need to charge across the table, they can blender things right away.

Are they as good as other SoB HS picks? Probably not. Useless? Not in the least.

 Nevelon wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
Or Penitent Engines. Completely useless.

I’ve seen them used to good effect. In the last double tournament I went to my parter was fielding a group of them. This is back in 6th. Both of our lists were full of stuff we liked, but didn’t field very often.

First game they were playing defense, and kept one of our objectives free. They tangled with some demons. Not sure of all the details, but at the end of the game at least one was still standing, and the objective was OK

Second game was vs. a DE/Necron pair. They were very aggressive and were in our deployment zone turn one. Those DE bikes things don’t deal well with HFs. I don’t think they lived to the end of that game, but did burn/blender quite the pile of stuff.

Third game they ate a drop pod worth of marines. We kinda steamrolled our opponents, so they spent most of the game trying to find something to kill IIRC.

I’ve been on the receiving end of PE charges in editions past. All it takes is them hitting your line one time to earn some respect. And the paired HFs can cause some pain. They no longer need to charge forward stupidly, so you can hold them back if needed. They make very nice defensive units vs. aggressive armies. When you don’t need to charge across the table, they can blender things right away.

Are they as good as other SoB HS picks? Probably not. Useless? Not in the least.

Was that before the new digital dex?

 MWHistorian wrote:


Was that before the new digital dex?

It was last april, so after.

Now my local meta is not the most competitive, so take my anecdotes with a grain of salt if yours is. I've also only glanced at the PE rules, there might have been mistakes made. PEs are eggshells armed with flameing blenders, and while they've got issues, when they do work, they can work well.

I'd prefer more rugged or reliable units, but sometimes you just need a little crazy in your list.

If the opponent let a PE get that close, they are doing something very wrong...or using warp talons and mutilators.

 Musashi363 wrote:
If the opponent let a PE get that close, they are doing something very wrong...or using warp talons and mutilators.

Sometimes you need to drop pod next to the exorcist to kill it. If there happens to be a murder machine standing next to it, what are you going to do? Not every choice on the battlefield is going to be optimal. In an ideal world, you pop the PEs before they get close to anything. But SoB can pull armor saturation in spades.

Even bad units can work. Would you be better off with good units? Almost all the time. But if you dismiss something as totaly useless, some day it's going to bite you. It may be a niche corner case where the crappy unit shines, but if you spend enough time pushing plastic across the table, it might come up. Particuarly if the owner of said crummy unit is trying to force the issue.

My warhound titan - I would love to play apocalypse but the chance just hasn't come up yet.

Although I feel the question is asking "Units that never leave the shelf *because they are terrible*" in which case (and it really makes me sad to say it);
Storm Squad Guardians.

One is my staple units in 3rd ed.

 Nevelon wrote:

 Musashi363 wrote:
If the opponent let a PE get that close, they are doing something very wrong...or using warp talons and mutilators.

Sometimes you need to drop pod next to the exorcist to kill it. If there happens to be a murder machine standing next to it, what are you going to do? Not every choice on the battlefield is going to be optimal. In an ideal world, you pop the PEs before they get close to anything. But SoB can pull armor saturation in spades.

Even bad units can work. Would you be better off with good units? Almost all the time. But if you dismiss something as totaly useless, some day it's going to bite you. It may be a niche corner case where the crappy unit shines, but if you spend enough time pushing plastic across the table, it might come up. Particuarly if the owner of said crummy unit is trying to force the issue.

My Penitent Engines spend most of their time on the board. Sometimes they blow up spectacularly (yeah, open topped and AV 11 is no fun) but sometimes the 6++ makes for really epic situations. Shrug off Starcannons and all to move in and smack the Wave Serpent.

Striking Scorpions, Phoenix Lords, Falcon, unitl 7th Fire Dragons but now they are back!

Rough Riders.

Same deal with berzerkers.

Necrons
Destroyer Lord (prob gonna catch flak for this, but he's still useless)
Ghost Arks (They're not bad, but just not my play style)

* While they aren't being shelved, the army is going on the back burner while I have fun with my Orks.

Chaos Marines
My entire Fabius Bile Army. I was excited to finally be able to put these back on the table, but nope some people would rather argue to the point that is illegal, even as unbound. I don't play this game to add stress to my life, so that sadly go back and wait patiently for the day.

Fantasy Dwarfs
All Slayers. Even got a legal, workable list. It would require me to play Fantasy.

Warmachine Dwarfs
The game just isn't fun, and horrible experiences with the community. Unsuccessful in selling them.

My entire tyranid army is on the shelf. Haven't decided whether to keep them and hope for better times or sell them.

My entire SM army is on the shelf, not that I couldn't make a decent army with them but in support of my tyranid army - no desire to play 7th.

Just a note on eldar howling banshees, due to new allies rules they can embark on a DE transport... You know the assault transport we wanted that one. I actually use four of the Phoenix lords; fuegan, asurmen, jain zar and my karandras. My falcons are what I take as Anti-tank serpents, while not as good I can't get rid of it, holo fields may come back!!!

Mycetic Spores and Doom for obvious reasons.

Everything else still gets a run fairly often!

 Paradigm wrote:

 Otto Weston wrote:
My poor Colossus. Spent ages converting one from a Basilisk, as soon as he's finished the next IG codex comes out and he's not in it anymore...

WHY!?!?!?!

I don't use FW rules simply because it gives people grounds to complain/ refuse games. Soooo I'm stuck using him as counts-as.... atm he's my counts-as Deathstrike xD

How can it give people a cause to complain when the FW rules are identical in every way to the 5th Ed codex rules? If you're playing with people that are going to be that absolutely unreasonable then you have my pity.

because forge world sometimes has undercosted and some times over powered units due to other independent dex release.

Blight drones were the heldrakes before heldrakes. I wanted to use forgeworld but could not because people would not play me.

I dont remember a whole lot starting out in 5th ed, but when my opponent said these units are forge world, it ment he spammed then n killed many of my units fast.

Back to the shelf:

Defilers x2
Possesed
Khorne berserkers
Thousand sons
Predator tanks
Land raider
Vindicator
Csm+havocs
Termi
Chosen
Abba freaking don
Anythink not heldrake.

My Sororitas Command Squad.. 2 of em.

Every time I look at their unit entry I think: points better spent on more Dominions/Exorcists

Storm Guardians.. last used in 3rd edition or so.

I've got about 50 fully painted and based genestealers sat in a box. Can't see them coming out again any time soon. The ymgarls I then made specially, hunted down all the feeder tentrils, so they look different to the base stealer are a real irritation.

I built some shrikes and a parasite of mortrex to lead them - and they are sat in tupperware as well ...

My beloved dark eldar wytches. God they are bad!




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Musashi363 wrote:
If the opponent let a PE get that close, they are doing something very wrong...or using warp talons and mutilators.

Haha this made me laugh. Your totally right. Its not just how bad warp talons and mutilators are but its also how terrible their scuplts are.

 Ventus wrote:
My entire tyranid army is on the shelf. Haven't decided whether to keep them and hope for better times or sell them.

My entire SM army is on the shelf, not that I couldn't make a decent army with them but in support of my tyranid army - no desire to play 7th.

I've offered for Tyranid players to take 10% more points to balance the game. So far they've all declined and then done the tableflip on turn 3.

Death Company Dreadnought. Not sure if I've used it once.

I mean, nothing against it. It's a real machine and comes with a fair price and capacity to tear a new one to almost anything.
It just comes with a tax of five DC marines, which I sadly don't use anymore.

Wow, this made it to the front page

Proud!

The first thing that comes to mind is actually my Imperial Guard army but I've found a buyer for at least part of them so hopefully they'll be back to burning stuff and tank shocking in no time. There was nothing wrong with them, I just haven't been playing them since I got back into the hobby.

More immediately I'd say that my Assault Centurions don't get a ton of usage. I've ran them a few times and they've done really well but they're astonishingly expensive, even moreso when coupled with the nearly mandatory Land Raider Crusader I usually run them with. My LGS has been doing an escalation league and we're just now up to 1400pts. I haven't been able to justify a 500pt unit thus far.

 MWHistorian wrote:
Or Penitent Engines. Completely useless.

^ These are what sit on my shelf, collecting dust.

Warp Talons. Awesome models, never used them in a game, 'cause I hear they're awful.
Thoughts?

Space Wolves:

Cannis Wolfborn and Fenrisian Wolves - no matter what I do, who I play or where I hide them they rarely make into CC. I've had similar experiences with Thunderwolf Calvary so i guess you could include them as well



Tau:

Stealth Suits - Love the Models, like what they bring to the flight with infiltrate and the stealth/shrouded combo but the other 2 options in the Elite FOC just take precedence and are rather squishy with just a single wound. I wish that there were a character or upgrade that lets you take them as troops or Fast attack

Devil Fish - for less than the 80 points I pay to make FW "mobile" (which IMO is NOT what they are meant to be) I can get 12 Kroot with Sniper Rounds,13 W/O or 12 Kroot with a Hound. That can infiltrate or outflank arguably more mobile than a Fish.

Sniper Drones - I Just don't see a use for them and I only have 3 and single marksmen

Drones in general - just not my playing style