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Warpsolution wrote:
Clearly we have different opinions of what "which is the most bad ass Lord?" means.

Bt yes. Nagash wins. Hands-freakin'-down. Malekith and Archaon are probably pretty decent choices, too. Anyone who can fight, survive, and cast.
The Daemon Prince has to take a backseat to Malekith on his dragon, right? Better caster, better fighter. Not Unbreakable, but still extremely tough. Yeah?

Badassery depends. It's like any RPG. If you have the staff of badassery+100, and you can't use it, then you don't get the benefits.

Likewise, if you have the most badass lord in the world, and can't use him, then you'll say that the most badass lord you can use is better, because of the fact that he can be used.

Nagash is still 2 failed ward saves away from being eaten by cannons.

He's probably the best in general, but because he can summon an entire army. Not because of his personal durability or offensive power.

Depends on the Army, however the Dwarf Lord is by far one of the Toughest Lord Choices out there thanks to all the Rune Combo's you can give him. Lost some of his killing ability but you can easily make this guy the most unkillable Lord choice in the game.

 thedarkavenger wrote:
Likewise, if you have the most badass lord in the world, and can't use him, then you'll say that the most badass lord you can use is better, because of the fact that he can be used.

Luckily, this thread was asking which of the Lord choices, in all of Warhammer, is the biggest and the baddest, and not which of the Lord choices, in a 500/1000/2000/3000pt game, is the biggest and the baddest.
40 Savage Orc Big 'Uns are more badass than 20 Spearmen. They also cost a ton more. But they're still more badass.
If you had a 9mm and I had an rpg, I'd win the awesomeness competition. The fact that you'd win in 9 out of 10 practical scenarios is irrelevant to awesomeness, kick- and/orbadassery.

Nagash has 7 wounds and a 4+ Ward save. It's going to take four shots from a cannon to take him down, assuming he doesn't get the chance to heal himself. But I'd agree that most of his greatness comes from him being a lvl5 Wizard with a ton of extra magic and rules, rather than being a combat monster (or an actual one).

Well we don't know the lore of undeath yet. but from what we've seen every wizard has access to it, but nagash get's double the points from castings. But he has to roll for spells. Does that mean Karios gets to pick the best of the best. if this lore is that good. I select his hiding from combat self. Unless he decides to go Transformation of Kadon of course.

 Acardia wrote:
Well we don't know the lore of undeath yet. but from what we've seen every wizard has access to it, but nagash get's double the points from castings. But he has to roll for spells. Does that mean Karios gets to pick the best of the best. if this lore is that good. I select his hiding from combat self. Unless he decides to go Transformation of Kadon of course.

Yes. But Nagash is a S7 monster with a billion attacks. And he gets to abuse HKB.

Movement 7 that can't march. He can be out maneuvered. Karios has access to better mid cast protection and gateway.

Karios would keep his ward save and mark of tzeentch in mountain chimera as well. 4d6+1 attacks at s7 with hatred. Plus a breath weapon. His reroll on a hkb ward save would be useful as well.

 Acardia wrote:
Movement 7 that can't march. He can be out maneuvered. Karios has access to better mid cast protection and gateway.

Karios would keep his ward save and mark of tzeentch in mountain chimera as well. 4d6+1 attacks at s7 with hatred. Plus a breath weapon. His reroll on a hkb ward save would be useful as well.

Yeah. But, that's if he gets the spell off. Nagash has the S7 ALL the time. And he can summon far better than Kairos. And with access to LoV and LoNehekhara, he can literally control the movement phase. Whether it's by moving up with Desert Wind, or raising several million zombies to block off part of the battlefield.

I'm sorry, but as good as Fatey is, he has nothing on Nagash's rules.

Just an FYI, Nagash is Strength 8 with the Mortis Blade, not Strength 7. Turning 1+ armour saves into 6+ saves....mmmm doughnuts.

Yup. +1S and D3 Wounds.
The whole "spend a Power Die for HKB" isn't a very good exchange in my opinion, but hey! Maybe you ran out of zombie models.

Warpsolution wrote:
Yup. +1S and D3 Wounds.
The whole "spend a Power Die for HKB" isn't a very good exchange in my opinion, but hey! Maybe you ran out of zombie models.

I'd argue it the other way. At level 5, with access to LoVampires, you can safely just spam level 1 necro's and drop a dice for the HKB and 1-2 dice Invoc.

Couldn't Malekith potentially be an effective foil to Nagash?

He's immune to Killing Blow and multiple wounds, so Nagash's "trade magic die for HKB" is wasted, as is his D3 wounds sword since he can only ever cause 1 wound from each hit.

Also, if Malekith hits him in combat, there's a 50% chance of Nagash losing a magic item. If Nagash loses his magic weapon then he's wailing against a 2+ ward save. Whether this is a reliable way of surviving depends on how many magical items Nagash actually has.

If Malekith causes an unsaved wound against Nagash then there's a 50% chance that Nagash loses a wizard level.

If Malekith rolled Soul Stealer as one of his spells then he could potentially restore wounds lost by blasting units of Zombies/skeletons. He could even raise his wounds up to 10 if you roll well enough, before you go in and start punching Nagash in the face.

Nagash's high toughness could give Malekith a bit of trouble when it comes to actually killing him, though. Would probably need some sorceress support to either buff his strength or lower Nags toughness.
And if all else fails then Seraphon can hit him.

Nagash has four magic items which makes destroying the Mortis Blade incredibly unlikely. Malekith will struggle to do anything to Nagash due to Strength 5 VS Toughness 7, and once Nagash attacks back with the Mortis Blade Malekith pops instantly. 6 attacks needing 4s to hit for 3 hits at Strength 8, ignroing the best armour save Malekith can get (2+) and wounding all three times. Dead Malekith. He needs some really good magic support or some insane luck in destroying the Mortis Blade to survive just ONE round with Nagash.