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And other KS currently being all dungeony - maybe they should all have launched on the same day

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/direbadger/direbadger-lasercut-roleplay-town-and-dungeon-terr?ref=category

I bet they're all trying to ride the wave of the new DnD edition. That's why they're sprouting like mushrooms.

I'm not complaining, though.

Must confese, D&D is something I have never played, nor any of its spin offs, though I did consider getting some of their pre-paints at one point...


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INteresting videos. Still, I get they want to be a mini company, still they have cav - but why not even a partnership with a company that makes the dungeon bit. Essentially a package of bones models rather than those single packs...

I know there was a Lost Dungeon (?) KS for dungeon crawl that used Bones miniatures. Reaper also teams up with companies to make their own miniatures, such as Torn Armor. They're also releasing a CAV KS. During the Bones KS, Swords and Sorcery gave away a PDF of their ruleset.

Most gamers won't pay for rules development (Mantic's rules are free), and game companies use rules to drive miniatures sales. Mebbe Reaper doesn't see the need for this, since RPG'ers and miniature painters will buy their products without their rules development. (Me, I'd like to see them (and other paint companies) put out Learn to Paint Kits aimed at the non-fantasy miniatures markets.)

That is an interesting idea - deliberately trying to develop a game to use avid KS's dwarvenforge (yes, would have got it if the shipping wasn't comparable to flying over myself) and Reaper stuff. Not surprised it failed though (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/burningyeti/the-lost-dungeons-of-xon-pathfinder-compatible-emo) as how many people would have got both and not have had a reason to.

Still seems odd Reaper doesn't do sets of dungeon stuff, rather than the single model sales they like.

They do a pack for that KS module, but it is very specific so probably doesn't sell (http://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/90001/sku-down/90001). Hell I wonder if a WHQ+Expansions pack would sell

Oh my God - on the note of a tidal wave of 'crawlers, now would be a bizarrely appropriate time for GW to strike with a black box of WHQ! Luckily they have no ability to do that sort of thing

 judgedoug wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:
And with the latest update, they finally get to the point where the $100 pledge starts to look reasonable to me, and the $25 expack is almost complete. (can't repost it right now - on a tablet)

Yeah, the additional figs just made me want the add-on, _especially_ if the card tiles are nice.
Even if the whole game blows, I'll still have a giant pile of card tiles and dungeon monsters to play Tunnels & Trolls with.

Yup. Tunnels & Trolls.

I found a pile of my (brother's) old T&T stuff on the weekend. It was my first RPG. Now roll a truckload of dice!


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 cyphertheory wrote:
having just seen some of the models from the mars attacks box, I'm not to sure about the quality of these models now.

I am going to keep an eye on it, as I have an early bird, but I really wanted something to replace warhammer quest, but not at descent levels of quality.

Remember guys - boardgame figures, not "proper" miniatures. That's one reason I've been such a conservative with my (personal) valuation of the contents. The stuff we've been shown are resin masters, etc - not production PVC. Expect detail on the level of MA or Bones, etc - Know what to expect going in, and you won't be disappointed.

 Azazelx wrote:

Remember guys - boardgame figures, not "proper" miniatures. That's one reason I've been such a conservative with my (personal) valuation of the contents. The stuff we've been shown are resin masters, etc - not production PVC. Expect detail on the level of MA or Bones, etc - Know what to expect going in, and you won't be disappointed.

This is probably why I'll drop out later on; I have boardgame figures for these tropes already, and plenty of wargames mini's to make up for it. I know this is mostly a boardgame but one of the things I liked about the Dwarf Kings Quest (and HeroQuest) was the quality of the figures. If these are closer to Bones quality then there's going to have to be a lot in it for me to justify paying this money a year out.

Same with the resin collectors figures; those are going to be restic aren't they, and not the hard resin we're used to for collectors edition stuff?

No the resin figures are real hand poured resin

although you never know if Mantic will decide to change material later on like the restic dreadball stuff that ended up in metal for some of us, or the deadzone resin strider that became restic

(although they would always give you a full refund if you objected to the change)

If it was definitely hand poured resin I'd probably stay in for a set or 2, but I've got enough painting projects already to worry about softer materials.

Herzlos wrote:
I know this is mostly a boardgame but one of the things I liked about the Dwarf Kings Quest (and HeroQuest) was the quality of the figures. If these are closer to Bones quality then there's going to have to be a lot in it for me to justify paying this money a year out.

Huh, do you really consider Bones to be of such low quality? I agree that they kind of look so-so when unpainted, but once you get paint on them I think they're pretty decent. Certainly better than most boardgame pieces I would say, and to me they seem to have more depth and detail than the old HeroQuest minis. I'm genuinely curious as I don't own any previous Mantic stuff, so have been unsure what quality level to expect. Bones I consider to be pretty good, and when I hear boardgame quality I'm thinking a lot worse.

EDIT: Here are some Bones I painted, BTW. Now I'm by no means a masterful painter, but I think these work well as gaming pieces:

http://forum.reapermini.com/index.php?/topic/54164-my-adventuring-party-in-bones/?hl=trodax
http://forum.reapermini.com/index.php?/topic/47417-77008-garrik-the-bold-77009-werewolf-77015-bugbear-warrior-77005-ogre-chieftain/?hl=trodax

I had high hopes for this before the KS started, but I was looking for a dungeon crawl game similar to Advanced Heroquest, not Space Hulk The Fantasy Version.

I'm not too keen on the miniatures, I prefer quality over quantity but this doesn't seem like either.

I guess I will have to keep on waiting for the spiritual successor to AHQ! Maybe one day GW will release an updated Warhammer Quest...

 Trodax wrote:

Herzlos wrote:
I know this is mostly a boardgame but one of the things I liked about the Dwarf Kings Quest (and HeroQuest) was the quality of the figures. If these are closer to Bones quality then there's going to have to be a lot in it for me to justify paying this money a year out.

Huh, do you really consider Bones to be of such low quality? I agree that they kind of look so-so when unpainted, but once you get paint on them I think they're pretty decent. Certainly better than most boardgame pieces I would say, and to me they seem to have more depth and detail than the old HeroQuest minis. I'm genuinely curious as I don't own any previous Mantic stuff, so have been unsure what quality level to expect. Bones I consider to be pretty good, and when I hear boardgame quality I'm thinking a lot worse.

EDIT: Here are some Bones I painted, BTW. Now I'm by no means a masterful painter, but I think these work well as gaming pieces:

http://forum.reapermini.com/index.php?/topic/54164-my-adventuring-party-in-bones/?hl=trodax
http://forum.reapermini.com/index.php?/topic/47417-77008-garrik-the-bold-77009-werewolf-77015-bugbear-warrior-77005-ogre-chieftain/?hl=trodax

Well said about Bones, which are really good for what they are meant to be, namely figures representing characters and creatures in mainly RPGs. And by the way this is a really nice and clean painting you have done on those minis!
There is a general rule about Bones and their level of detail: The bigger the miniature is the better!

I've only got one bones mini, but he doesn't look bad at all, and neither have the other bones I've seen. Nice paint jobs.

I really don't think the MA minis look bad either as a whole. I'm fine with all of the soldiers, and the only martian I don't like is the guy with the filled-in arm. The detail on some of the human faces is definitely softer than I'd like, but they are ridiculously tiny. People talk about infinity minis being small/skinny, and these faces are averaging a bit smaller than those. Eva is the cut-off for me, Brandi and Ashley I probably wouldn't have bought off the rack if I could see their faces. The rest so far seem fine. To me, I realize other people will have had their own expectations.



I'm pretty excited to see what comes after the extra trolls. Hopefully the boss, maybe for 450k? I'd like to see this goal get knocked out, then another expansion.. but maybe something cool inbetween to keep people happy.

 Trodax wrote:

Herzlos wrote:
I know this is mostly a boardgame but one of the things I liked about the Dwarf Kings Quest (and HeroQuest) was the quality of the figures. If these are closer to Bones quality then there's going to have to be a lot in it for me to justify paying this money a year out.

Huh, do you really consider Bones to be of such low quality? I agree that they kind of look so-so when unpainted, but once you get paint on them I think they're pretty decent. Certainly better than most boardgame pieces I would say, and to me they seem to have more depth and detail than the old HeroQuest minis. I'm genuinely curious as I don't own any previous Mantic stuff, so have been unsure what quality level to expect. Bones I consider to be pretty good, and when I hear boardgame quality I'm thinking a lot worse.

EDIT: Here are some Bones I painted, BTW. Now I'm by no means a masterful painter, but I think these work well as gaming pieces:

http://forum.reapermini.com/index.php?/topic/54164-my-adventuring-party-in-bones/?hl=trodax
http://forum.reapermini.com/index.php?/topic/47417-77008-garrik-the-bold-77009-werewolf-77015-bugbear-warrior-77005-ogre-chieftain/?hl=trodax

I went in pretty big for the first Bones Kickstarter so I've dealt with lots of them and for the price they are great, especially the big figures, but the detail on some of them is pretty soft (could just be bad casts I guess). Compared to most of the other mini's I've got (polystyrene, pewter or hard resin) the quality is pretty poor. It's maybe unfair since I'm comparing to mini's costing 2-20x as much, but since I'm completely overloaded on stuff to paint I can choose to be fussy. I have to admit that I haven't actually painted any of them yet; by the time the KS shipped I'd changed focus in terms of gaming so had no use for most of it and sold 90% of it off. I'll try and get a couple done before this KS finishes though; I was looking for a few mini's to take away for the weekend to paint in my down time.

I'm not saying they won't be great gaming pieces though, just that I'm used to sharper materials, so the painting/hobby value isn't there for me. I'll stay in until nearer the end to see if it'll win me over as purely a board game.

Herzlos wrote:
I went in pretty big for the first Bones Kickstarter so I've dealt with lots of them and for the price they are great, especially the big figures, but the detail on some of them is pretty soft (could just be bad casts I guess). Compared to most of the other mini's I've got (polystyrene, pewter or hard resin) the quality is pretty poor. It's maybe unfair since I'm comparing to mini's costing 2-20x as much, but since I'm completely overloaded on stuff to paint I can choose to be fussy. I have to admit that I haven't actually painted any of them yet; by the time the KS shipped I'd changed focus in terms of gaming so had no use for most of it and sold 90% of it off. I'll try and get a couple done before this KS finishes though; I was looking for a few mini's to take away for the weekend to paint in my down time.

I'm not saying they won't be great gaming pieces though, just that I'm used to sharper materials.

Alright, cool, I hear you. I'm a lot pickier with my collecting and painting these days too, having gone in deep on Kickstarters from Red Box Games, Mierce and AntiMatter (to name just a few), but I still think Bones are alright. As I said, unpainted I did think they looked kind of blobby and soft, but once I got some primer on them and had moved them to a nice base I liked them a lot more. There were a couple pieces in the Vampire pledge that were outright bad though. Hmmm, I guess comparisons are kind of hard; some of the Mars Attacks pieces are looking so-so to me now, but I guess that could also change when paint is applied.

Anyway, sorry about the OT; just wanted to get a handle on the quality levels being discussed!

My main point isn;t to slag off Bones or PVC Boardgame figures (I've got plenty of each, and painted a fair few of each as well) but to highlight that the figures on offer here aren't our traditional wargames-style figures in plastic or resin or metal or even restic, but boardgame style figures - so people know what they're buying into (and cheerleading for).

I've probably come at the KS from the wrong perspective; I was expecting Dwarf Kings hold style minis (polystrene) rather than the coloured plastic or restic, which I've no direct experience of but have heard a lot of complaints about soft detail. But this is a board game, not a wargame.

Yeah, the DKH models were re-used KoW sprues. Not a good look for boardgames or boardgamers, though. I never even finished assembling mine .

 Azazelx wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:
And with the latest update, they finally get to the point where the $100 pledge starts to look reasonable to me, and the $25 expack is almost complete. (can't repost it right now - on a tablet)

Yeah, the additional figs just made me want the add-on, _especially_ if the card tiles are nice.
Even if the whole game blows, I'll still have a giant pile of card tiles and dungeon monsters to play Tunnels & Trolls with.

Yup. Tunnels & Trolls.

I found a pile of my (brother's) old T&T stuff on the weekend. It was my first RPG. Now roll a truckload of dice!

My second. Our first was when my mom bought my brother D&D basic red box (3rd edition) from B. Dalton in 1988-ish. Polyhedral dice? Mind=blown.
I was jealous he owned D&D so on the second or third trip to the FLGS I spent my lawnmowing money on Tunnels & Trolls in the used game section. Very fond memories of spending my hard earned dollars on Ral Partha lead minis back when they were $1.25, and I wrote an entire adventure called "Umberhulk Caverns" because I bought an Umberhulk figure.
T&T is still a good system if you completely excise the combat rules and instead use saving rolls for combat as well (plus makes it way more of a unified system)

 Azazelx wrote:
My main point isn;t to slag off Bones or PVC Boardgame figures (I've got plenty of each, and painted a fair few of each as well) but to highlight that the figures on offer here aren't our traditional wargames-style figures in plastic or resin or metal or even restic, but boardgame style figures - so people know what they're buying into (and cheerleading for).

This is the main reason I find the deal to be lacking. Most big box board games come with tons of minis. Board game minis should flow like water out of the box. Forty-something board game minis for a hundred bucks is not a bargain at all.

Some close-up pics of the MA figures. IIRC, The same plastic will be used in DS.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/images-70053-42703_Gencon2014-mantic.html

Yeah I want to be excited about this KS, but I'm struggling. And now I'm mostly confused: what exactly are these orcs going to look like? Because a lot of this concept art is looking very static.

In terms of value, if these were all metal or resin, cool. If boardgame plastic...then I'm still on the fence.

$15k stretch goal to add a mini into the expansion, not the main game.

Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
I had high hopes for this before the KS started, but I was looking for a dungeon crawl game similar to Advanced Heroquest, not Space Hulk The Fantasy Version.

I guess I will have to keep on waiting for the spiritual successor to AHQ! Maybe one day GW will release an updated Warhammer Quest...

Spot on! For me tactical dungeon combat is done very well by the DKH series. But I do remember the old AHQ, and lighter WHQ, for being the closest I come to doing a roleplay game. I think Jake is a great designer, but he himself admits he doesn't like these sorts of games, so is giving us RPG tactics

I don't want a complex RPG, I have got DKH, in the middle for me is what you talk about. Taking a character through development with the medium of quests involving combat. Give me a nice fast combat system where I can make tactical choices, an intricate puzzle in the form of a dungeon/arena/defined area, stuff that I can use to advance and have improvements as a result of performance, make it in my interests to work with others but not compulsory and then give me enough flavour outside of the quest to care (mini games in places like the tavern, charts for equipment, random events, etc).

Oooooh!

 Azazelx wrote:
Yeah, the DKH models were re-used KoW sprues. Not a good look for boardgames or boardgamers, though. I never even finished assembling mine .

Yes. The sprues bar the dwarves are great (I got a DKH 'mega' set in Dark Sphere when they were flogging all the old Mantic stock - DKH, DKH orcs and elves, the 3rd expansion, the monster pack). The skellies are probably the best, but a bugger to clean if you are fanatical about mould lines. Took me a week of spare time to clean and assemble the Dwarves and skeletons in unique poses (another obsession I have...).


Random note, they should be putting up tutorials on their website to support this. Stuff like how to make a weapons rack from the spare bits on your skeleton sprue, etc etc. Leveraging existing models to support this.

Was looking forward to this KS, but the value just isn't there for me, and looking at those Mars Attacks production figures, their quality and value proposition are going in the wrong direction. Looks to me like they are trying to sell board game quality figures at wargaming quality figure pricing.

willb2064 wrote:
Was looking forward to this KS, but the value just isn't there for me, and looking at those Mars Attacks production figures, their quality and value proposition are going in the wrong direction. Looks to me like they are trying to sell board game quality figures at wargaming quality figure pricing.

I almost expect to see bags of the Mars Attacks figures along with other toy soldiers at Walmart and the Dollar Store. They are pretty cool, for toy plastic army men and aliens.

Pretty much like zombicide - but that came with buckets of models.

willb2064 wrote:
Looks to me like they are trying to sell board game quality figures at wargaming quality figure pricing.

Except they're not selling board game figures, they're selling a board game