Mantic Dungeon Saga Kickstarter - Completed! $1,057,975 total, 5,963 backers

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**angelofvengeance**

timetowaste85 wrote:
I have no idea who Brian Blessed is. So no. Although it is amusing that my name is Brian.

This might help you figure out who he is too lol
Last night was the 2nd biggest jump (after day 1) in the campaign so far with a whopping $30,593.00

**NTRabbit**

The question now is basically "is there a sea of people who have starred it earlier to see how it goes and waiting for the 48 hour warning to pledge, or is it like DBX where the majority of potential backers pledged day 1?"

DBX was pretty niche, I think a dungeon crawler has a better chance of reeling in more BGG types in the last two days, especially given how funded it is already - the more funding a game has on KS the more it gets, because people see all the unlocks and think "I don't want to miss out on that", which kicks up the numbers and more people think "Look at all those unlocks and the skyrocketing backer count, I don't want to miss out on that". Tiny Epic Kingdoms is a good example of that effect, a neat but not exactly groundbreaking game that ran on heavily, albeit at a much lower buy in http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/coe/tiny-epic-kingdoms/#chart-daily

**angelofvengeance**

NTRabbit wrote:
The question now is basically "is there a sea of people who have starred it earlier to see how it goes and waiting for the 48 hour warning to pledge, or is it like DBX where the majority of potential backers pledged day 1?"

DBX was pretty niche, I think a dungeon crawler has a better chance of reeling in more BGG types in the last two days, especially given how funded it is already - the more funding a game has on KS the more it gets, because people see all the unlocks and think "I don't want to miss out on that", which kicks up the numbers and more people think "Look at all those unlocks and the skyrocketing backer count, I don't want to miss out on that". Tiny Epic Kingdoms is a good example of that effect, a neat but not exactly groundbreaking game that ran on heavily, albeit at a much lower buy in http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/coe/tiny-epic-kingdoms/#chart-daily

I think Deadzone is a great example of last minute pledging, Mantic wise...

Though that's probably down to the obscene amount of Battlezone terrain kits people pledged for as well as the boxed sets of Deadzone. I don't think it'll happen on the same level as this one but there's time yet!

Automatically Appended Next Post:
600K locked in...

Automatically Appended Next Post:
New stretch goal: $615,000

[size=18]Update #41

The Hounds of Hell

UNLOCKED - Adventurer’s Companion Upgrade

Done and done. That’s a major upgrade to the Adventurer’s Companion locked in!

This is an important milestone goal. It means we can create an even better product and excellent addition to the game. For veteran players who want to go beyond the prescribed scenarios, to new adventurers wanting to delve into the detail of the world, designing your own quests or characters, this book, and the upgrade you helped fund, will mean that we can develop a tabletop miniatures role-playing game of quality, depth and - most importantly - fun.

This campaign is by no means over and we've still got plenty to focus on over the final days. Demons and a dangerous big beasty are on the horizon - and it'll take some Legendary Heroes to slay them all. Oh, and maybe doors to hide behind...

So, next up, we’re going back on an Abyssal focus with a new creature added to the set to improve the variety of enemies at your disposal – and further improve the value of the set!
New Stretch Goals!

$615,000 BONUS Abyssal Hellhounds!

There is an ancient mortal superstition which says that evil is a threefold instrument, attempting to seduce mortals with lies of the eye, the ear and the tongue. The Hellhound speaks to this most primal superstition with three huge, demonic heads and snapping jaws full of enormous teeth. Used as hunting dogs by the denizens of the Abyss, these terrifying beasts are as ferocious as they are ugly and as nimble as a creature many times smaller. They are unpredictable and prone to attack anything within reach, friend or foe, which explains the tendency of their ‘handlers’ to set them loose at the earliest opportunity in a battle.

f we hit this stretch goal, we will produce the mighty Hellhounds and will:

- Include two of these miniatures in the Infernal Crypts expansion pack ($25)!

- Include one of this miniature in a pledge of Dungeon Master ($100 and Early Bird)!

Let’s get it locked in.

**GrimDork**

-edit- No point in arguing about things.

Totally going to finish crypts in 30-45k though, going to hit it fast. Third expansion and doors in for sure.

In any case, hell hounds look awesome, I won't mind having a little pack of those

**Yonan**

Daaawwwwww cute widdle puppy!

**judgedoug**

highlord tamburlaine wrote:

WOW.

So I just looked at that PDF for Warhammer Quest. I've never actually seen it.

WOW.

That is a hell of a lot of game in there.

If Mantic can match that, I think I'm set.

Mantic won't, but I'd honestly prefer they didn't - while WQ is an absolutely brilliant idea, the execution of the game fell apart over any length of time. I don't know how many hundreds - yes - of hours our group spent running campaigns (with entire Warhammer figure collections broken out for those monster tables), trying to fix horribly broken things as we went. You can tell most of the extended campaign rules weren't playtested, just written down by a bunch of good buddies over a couple drinking sessions.

**Yonan**

It's only bad if they can't pull it off. Mantics rules so far have been great in my experience and I'd much rather they went for it. Maybe not now though, not sure. But they *do* have a year and some good playtesters and... whatever SS is, which should help a lot!

**angelofvengeance**

Yonan wrote:
Daaawwwwww cute widdle puppy!

If these guys are big enough, my brother said he wants to use one of them as Karanak, the Chosen Flesh Hound of Khorne for his 40K Daemons force.
Much better than his current model IMO.

**timetowaste85**

I know it's a tangent, but I used 6th Ed (fantasy) flesh hounds to make Karanak: 2 extra heads, and a small amount of greenstuff fur. It worked really well, and looks completely natural.

I love the hell hound look, and the molochs. Just not the lessers.

**Pacific**

Just hit the $615,000 at time of writing, assume next target will be going up shortly.

Intrigued by what the 'big beast' mentioned in the previous email is going to be - hopefully they haven't left it too late to introduce this kind of stuff, although the pledge totals have really jumped up the last day or so.

Obviously this isn't going to get close to the 1.2million of Deadzone, what did Dreadball Xtreme reach in the end?

**edlowe**

Pacific wrote:
Just hit the $615,000 at time of writing, assume next target will be going up shortly.

Intrigued by what the 'big beast' mentioned in the previous email is going to be - hopefully they haven't left it too late to introduce this kind of stuff, although the pledge totals have really jumped up the last day or so.

Obviously this isn't going to get close to the 1.2million of Deadzone, what did Dreadball Xtreme reach in the end?

Dbx was just shy of 2500 backers and raised 575k, dungeon saga is on 4000+ backers at 615k+

Ds at average $153 per backer
dbx ended at $232 per backer

**ced1106**

NTRabbit wrote:
DBX was pretty niche, I think a dungeon crawler has a better chance of reeling in more BGG types in the last two days, especially given how funded it is already - the more funding a game has on KS the more it gets, because people see all the unlocks and think "I don't want to miss out on that", which kicks up the numbers and more people think "Look at all those unlocks and the skyrocketing backer count, I don't want to miss out on that". Tiny Epic Kingdoms is a good example of that effect, a neat but not exactly groundbreaking game that ran on heavily, albeit at a much lower buy in http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/coe/tiny-epic-kingdoms/#chart-daily

BGG'ers aren't too happy that they haven't been shown the advanced rules (other boardgame KS would have shown them in gameplay videos), nor know the MSRP of the retail box. They're also less interested in mini's, especially if the extra mini's aren't necessary for gameplay, and definitely if they require assembly or are expensive. BGG'ers *know* the game will be available retail, and at 30% off MSRP, so have a good reason not to pledge. So I'm seeing BGG'ers waiting for more information, and, so far, not getting it.

Mantic's trying to sell a boardgame product as a miniatures campaign.

**angelofvengeance**

Hellhounds unlocked- now for Legendary heroes

Update #42
Next up, it’s time to trick out some heroes.

Now then, we've added nearly 3,000 backers since the last time we talked about Legendary Heroes, so here's a recap on how Character Progression works in the Core Rules. Remember that the Adventurer's Companion includes a much more sophisicated system.

When the likes of Ghost, Trolls or Demons, you're going to need more than your trusty broad sword to combat the darkness...

Character progression in the Core Rules is very simple. Your heroes will be able to acquire and use items such as potions and scrolls, but will also be able to retrieve and use equipment.

At some point during the story, your heroes will start acquiring magical items and, better still, stat and skill buffs that allow them to take on the more powerful enemies.

When this happens, players will turn over their Character Mat to reveal their upgraded selves. You’ll be better in a fight and have new spells, feats and special abilities. You’ll collect equipment cards and outfit your heroes to better deal with the task at hand.

You will in fact have achieved Legendary status.

All of this is tracked by your Character Mat – your hero model will remain the same throughout your adventure.

However, we’re a miniatures company at heart, so we've come up with the following to get your heroic adventurer better represented on the tabletop!

NEW STRETCH GOAL

$640,000 OPTIONAL ADD-ON Legendary Heroes!

Legendary Hratth

Legendary Ibrahim

Legendary Ally McSween

Legendary Venetia Beriassor

If we hit this stretch goal, we will produce a set of Legendary heroes for Hratth, Ibrahim, Ally McSween and Venetia Berisassor, and make them available as Optional Add-ons, produced exclusively for this Kickstarter in resin.

These new figures will each be in unique heroic poses and feature new equipment, whether that’s armour or magic weapons.

Each one can be used to switch out your standard hero to their new more powerful version, or make great alternate models for the Fighter, Paladin, Thief and Cleric classes!

Next:
Will something rise to take command of the forces of the Abyss? The Destroyer is coming.

**GrimDork**

I could care less about that stretch, but I know some people want all of the heroes to have an epic mode and we're damn near a third done with it already anyway. The salamander doesn't look much different though?

Very curious as to what this destroyer is, if it's the boss or a large troll sized monster, or a boss that IS a large troll (or larger) sized monster... Possibly that demon lord guy we've seen, or maybe something different. Wonder if it'll be the last update to the infernal crypts which would put it at 2 models lower (but some may be larger?) or not.

**ced1106**

Designer's thoughts on random dungeon generation. Well, at least he's honest!

http://quirkworthy.com/2014/08/28/random-dungeon-sagas/

Last I heard about HQ25, the rules were going public sometime between September and October, and the release is delayed for several months.

**NTRabbit**

I'm thinking it's going to be a big demon on a 50mm base like Hoggar, the undead troll lord

ced1106 wrote:

BGG'ers aren't too happy that they haven't been shown the advanced rules (other boardgame KS would have shown them in gameplay videos), nor know the MSRP of the retail box. They're also less interested in mini's, especially if the extra mini's aren't necessary for gameplay, and definitely if they require assembly or are expensive. BGG'ers *know* the game will be available retail, and at 30% off MSRP, so have a good reason not to pledge. So I'm seeing BGG'ers waiting for more information, and, so far, not getting it.

Mantic's trying to sell a boardgame product as a miniatures campaign.

Well someone is jumping in as the numbers keep climbing, and my comment was more about the style of game - DBX is a miniatures sports game, which is a lot more niche than a dungeon crawler and less likely to have broader appeal.

Funny though, before everything was unlocked the campaign was bad because there weren't enough minis, now a lot of it is unlocked the campaign is bad because they have too many minis!

Right now they're only 47 backers away from the total Deadzone backers, which was a wildly successful project, so the campaign can't have been run that badly

**Azazelx**

Pacific wrote:
Just hit the $615,000 at time of writing, assume next target will be going up shortly.

Intrigued by what the 'big beast' mentioned in the previous email is going to be - hopefully they haven't left it too late to introduce this kind of stuff, although the pledge totals have really jumped up the last day or so.

Any "big beast"-type thing they want to add to the core game will have already been factored in (and paid for by now). It will give them the flexibility to make it a small, achievable stretch goal, or if things slow down, a "hey, cool! freebie!"

**GrimDork**

I'll agree with Az here. If they intend to do doors and some big skeletal wyrm at the end then those things will happen. Either like Az says or they may use the old ' hey we're totally unlocking that stuff with the pledge manager' routine. They'll take care of us according to plan I'm sure.

**Azazelx**

NTRabbit wrote:

Funny though, before everything was unlocked the campaign was bad because there weren't enough minis, now a lot of it is unlocked the campaign is bad because they have too many minis!

Funny though - you can always make that kind of point - and about anything - simply by choosing two different things that two different people have said, and then paint everyone (except oneself, of course) with a broad brush. Because after all, Only me and perhaps my couple of mates are real people here - the rest of you are just "the internet" or "dakka" - faceless hiveminds.

**NTRabbit**

Point was you can't please everyone all of the time

Spoiler:

**Da Boss**

Random dungeon generation with AI actually makes this a much more attractive prospect for me. I upped my pledge to include the Abyssals (the hellhounds and Molochs seem like they'll be good to have). I hope Jake can pull it off.

**Pacific**

Well one thing is for sure, Mantic have got some bloody good artists working for them. The standard of artwork, from the sketches of individuals to the 'cover' type serious paintings, has been fantastic.

Can I ask, what exactly is the difference between these legendary heroes and the ones that were already available?

ced1106 wrote:
Designer's thoughts on random dungeon generation. Well, at least he's honest!

http://quirkworthy.com/2014/08/28/random-dungeon-sagas/

Last I heard about HQ25, the rules were going public sometime between September and October, and the release is delayed for several months.

Not to de-rail the thread, but I think isn't that just supposition from forumites on the Spanish Gamezone forums? I don't think there has been any news at all..

**overtyrant**

Pledged a dollar so if my mood takes me I may get the game and stuff in the PM though there is a good amount of stuff in there I'm more along Azazelxs thinking that I don't value it as war game miniatures but board game miniatures.

**Azazelx**

NTRabbit wrote:
Point was you can't please everyone all of the time

Of course, but the way you wrote it makes out like the same people are arguing both ends, and you're the only sensible and clear-headed one in the (virtual) room.

Which of course is wrong. Because it's me.

Spoiler:

**GrimDork**

While I understand the value of resin, I don't personally want any for this project. I like being able to toss minis into a bin with pretty fair odds of not snapping their delicate parts

If only they did a nameless/cthulhu expansion.. then we'd get enough funds for the 4th one too

**Azazelx**

I'd be alright with a separate set of resins for the PCs as a KS and later, Mantic Webstore-exclusive freebie (as well as the BG plastic ones).

**highlord tamburlaine**

I like working with resin, but I always saw this as a straight board game, and as such would much prefer straight board game pieces.

That said I already added funds for the KoW pack with the trolls and the mincer, and am giving some honest thought to the resin versions as it stands, as they look like nice designs, but I doubt they'd ever see their intended usage.

I strongly agree that they need to cram as much as they can stat wise and rule wise in that book.

I want to have a legit use for some Mantic ogres in the game! I'm shocked they aren't planning on using any!

**MangoMadness**

GrimDork wrote:

If only they did a nameless/cthulhu expansion.. then we'd get enough funds for the 4th one too

More bloody cthulhu models? Surely the other 40 odd kickstarters have filled that niche by now

**GrimDork**

Dunno man, seems like people are still all over it. I don't particularly care what goes into a third expansion, just seems to me like that one would draw in extra backers. And it could be more generic horror too, maybe Ravenloft esque.

**Fugazi**

Pacific wrote:
Fugazi wrote:
maybe I'm kickstarted out.)

I've highlighted a bit of your text there Fugazi. I do think this is becoming more and more of a thing. The first few 'big' KS'es on Dakka were absolute roller coaster-rides of threads (Sedition Wars, Zombicide etc.) but I do wonder if the novelty and excitement is starting to wear off a little. Now, there just seems to be the cold, hard reality of miniatures per dollar and resin/plastic type

Very fair point. And I think the most experienced kickstarter-users, like Mantic, have been much more savvy about their price points (which is smarter for them but means less crazy deals for us).

I was going to complain about their concept art and likely resulting sculpts, but I pulled out my old HQ set, and you know what? The Mantic stuff will be fine for exactly this kinda thing. It's still not hitting my personal sweet spot, but again, Reaper and Dwarven Forge did well by me.

(I'd still prefer to know now the exact contents of the retail box (the non-KS box), but I suppose I have a rough idea.)

Oh, does anyone know the size of the resin bone pile counters? 25mm or 50mm? EDIT: Found it. They're 25mm. They replace the cardboard bone counters as shown in the gameplay video. If I end up pledging, I'll use them for bases, as they look pretty cool. (That transparent skull and resin bone pile add-on is the coolest thing in the whole KS, for me at least.)