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 Ouze wrote:
It was a general reflection on several previous forum threads, and not you personally - sorry that wasn't more clear. I dislike that it's often thrown out as a way of dismissing an entire point instead of actually addressing whatever the point was.

Fairy nuff.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
Glamorization of violence against women in a book written by a woman and mainly consumed by other women--quite the conundrum!

I've often wondered if this book would have been as successful if it had been written by a man. I don't think it would have been for the reasons mentioned in the tumblr blog above.

But it was written by a man!



Having read 'Fifty Shades Of Grey', this is the better version…..

EL James is a woman. Granted, she's not a particularly nice looking woman. But she is a woman.

 cincydooley wrote:
EL James is a woman. Granted, she's not a particularly nice looking woman. But she is a woman.

Agreed, but the version I own was written by a man…..please see above

Ohhhhh. Gotcha. I was a touch confused.

Ill admit that, like twilight, I read a portion of this when it was at "peak hype" to see what it was all about.

And much like twilight it saddens me that such poor writing and weak female characters are so popular with women. It's times like those that you really begin to appreciate characters like Hermione Granger and Katniss Everdeen (in book on only, sadly).

I thought it was erotica for those who didn't know what erotica was or feared it. I imagine the movie to be Nine and Half Weeks without the coherent plot or eroticism.

A topic where people decry the evil of feminism that ends with a comment about how ugly an author is and the implicit understanding that it's difficult to realize that she 's a woman because she's ugly? Stay classy Dakka.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
A topic where people decry the evil of feminism that ends with a comment about how ugly an author is and the implicit understanding that it's difficult to realize that she 's a woman because she's ugly? Stay classy Dakka.

Dude, get over yourself. She's not a great looking woman, and based on the small portion I read she's a poor author that writes incredibly weak female characters. And besides, my commentary there was in direct response to me mistakenly thinking another poster thought the author was a man. She's a bit of a "manish" looking woman, so it wouldn't surprise me if someone made that mistake.

But it's cool; apparently simply noticing a woman is unattractive disqualifies you from commenting on the fact that she writes horrible female characters that are about as from from positive female role models as you can get.

 Seaward wrote:
I just think it's disgusting that the romantic interest is a white cisgendered penis-bearer. It's 2014, people.

There have been times where I wish it were possible to remove words from the English language. "Cray" and "Totes" were the two at the top of my list, but "cisgendered" is quickly climbing the ranks. But yeah... tumblr...

 cincydooley wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
A topic where people decry the evil of feminism that ends with a comment about how ugly an author is and the implicit understanding that it's difficult to realize that she 's a woman because she's ugly? Stay classy Dakka.

Dude, get over yourself. She's not a great looking woman, and based on the small portion I read she's a poor author that writes incredibly weak female characters. And besides, my commentary there was in direct response to me mistakenly thinking another poster thought the author was a man. She's a bit of a "manish" looking woman, so it wouldn't surprise me if someone made that mistake.

But it's cool; apparently simply noticing a woman is unattractive disqualifies you from commenting on the fact that she writes horrible female characters that are about as from from positive female role models as you can get.

If you meant to say she looks like a man, I'd suggest saying that instead of making an irrelevant comment about whether she's attractive or not. The point was that you think she looks like a man, not that she's "ugly", no?

Would you mind pointing out where I said your arguments are invalid? Y'know, instead of strawmanning?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Seaward wrote:
I just think it's disgusting that the romantic interest is a white cisgendered penis-bearer. It's 2014, people.

There have been times where I wish it were possible to remove words from the English language. "Cray" and "Totes" were the two at the top of my list, but "cisgendered" is quickly climbing the ranks. But yeah... tumblr...

Dude*, I think you need to check your privilege.

*I'm using "dude" because you haven't old me what pronouns you prefer and so I don't know how to gender you in my response and I defaulted to the one imposed by the patriarchy because we are all of us oppressed by it and I am taking it back ironically and making this my own safe space.

I identify as a half-black, half-Asian, half-wolf, transgendered MTF post-human from the planet Zargon 8. The correct pro-noun is therefore, obviously, "when".

As an ally I will campaign tirelessly to make sure you're represented in the next major network television show or at least a Bioware game. America has to learn.

Just think how much better and more accurately reflective of modern American society 50 Shades of Grey would have been if someone who identifies as you was in there instead of Hobart* Gray. Because that's much more appealing to women than a rich handsome dude.

*Didn't read the books, no idea if that's the right name. Really hope it is.

I feel this should go here. Upvoted to the max on The Red Pill:

 MrDwhitey wrote:
I feel this should go here. Upvoted to the max on The Red Pill:

Spoiler:

...
What the feth did I just read?

Has anyone watched the trailer? Blandest, most formulaic crap possible. Ooh, bondage! Edgey! What a load of gak.

 whembly wrote:
This book is simply "porn" for chicks. Let 'em have their fun.

I imagine "actual porn" is porn for chicks.

 Cheesecat wrote:

 whembly wrote:
This book is simply "porn" for chicks. Let 'em have their fun.

I imagine "actual porn" is porn for chicks.

Yeah... news flash: women also watch porn.

 -Shrike- wrote:

 MrDwhitey wrote:
I feel this should go here. Upvoted to the max on The Red Pill:

Spoiler:

...
What the feth did I just read?

Pretty much. Started off with a point that could've been interesting and then... wow.

 MrDwhitey wrote:
I feel this should go here. Upvoted to the max on The Red Pill:

I'm gonna stop you right there and tell you I don't know what those words mean.

"Upvoted to the max" basically means the people on that forum heavily agree/approve of it.

"The Red Pill" is a subforum on Reddit "The Red Pill: Discussion of sexual strategy in a culture increasingly lacking a positive identity for men."

Amusingly their idea of "positive identity" is "Pickup artist" or "sexual assault" and "Women are not human, they exist to please us".

 MrDwhitey wrote:
"Upvoted to the max" basically means the people on that forum heavily agree/approve of it.

"The Red Pill" is a subforum on Reddit "The Red Pill: Discussion of sexual strategy in a culture increasingly lacking a positive identity for men."

Amusingly their idea of "positive identity" is "Pickup artist" or "sexual assault" and "Women are not human, they exist to please us".

Oh, those idiots.

Anyway, getting back to my Tumblr persona, they should realize that women finding rich/powerful men attractive is simply internalized misogyny thanks to the patriarchy, not an invitation to sexual assault. #YesAllWomen

Keep on filling that bingo card.

aconissa answered:

50 Shades of Grey was originally fanfiction based on the Twilight series

And just like that this entire 50 shades thing is completely and entirely explained to me.

 Ouze wrote:
I don't like the idea/pracitce on these forums that if you express an opinion on something that is happening in society that you don't like, if you're not a member of the afflicted group, you're dismissed as a social justice warrior. I think it's sort of lazy and that it's OK to say something is messed up even if it could not happen to you, whether it be your nationality depicted as a little red sambo, or media that depicts your sex as being happiest when subservient to others.

Just to make a correction, but you're a social justice warrior if you are a member of the group in question, too. You just get to be a "white knight" if you're not.

I could just not be remembering, but I don't recall 50 Shades of Grey being gender essentialist or anything - it just portrays a totally unsafe BDSM relationship. That's okay, as long as the people reading it realise it's not safe and to not do that.

Here are two of articles that articulate better than I could some of the problems I have with 50 Shades:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/carey-purcell/fifty-shades-of-grey-feminism_b_2395932.html

and

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/117814/50-shades-grey-academic-study-feminist-point-view

As someone with a literary background, it pains me that this abortion of 'literature' can sell so many copies while a Pulitzer Prize winning novel like Donna Tartt's amazing The Goldfinch struggles to break 500K.

As a dude that wants his daughter to have strong female characters in literature to look up to and to see as good exemplars for positive females and relationships, it makes me wretch that this and the Twilight series are the two most popular book series' with women 16-35 in the past 20 years....

 cincydooley wrote:
As someone with a literary background, it pains me that this abortion of 'literature' can sell so many copies while a Pulitzer Prize winning novel like Donna Tartt's amazing The Goldfinch struggles to break 500K.

And Transformers did better at the box office than The King's Speech. Dumb, disposable mass media is always going to sell better than thoughtful, well-crafted stuff.

As a dude that wants his daughter to have strong female characters in literature to look up to and to see as good exemplars for positive females and relationships, it makes me wretch that this and the Twilight series are the two most popular book series' with women 16-35 in the past 20 years....

Well, I wouldn't look to erotica for role models for any of my kids, personally, but I think you're going a bit far. Twilight's popular, sure, but so is the Hunger Games series.

Honestly, the best thing to do with the 50 Shades nonsense is sit back and take great amusement at the slap fighting it causes in the radicalist spheres of the interwebz. Feminists really do not like that women like these books, and it's hilarious.

 Seaward wrote:

And Transformers did better at the box office than The King's Speech. Dumb, disposable mass media is always going to sell better than thoughtful, well-crafted stuff.

That's entirely fair. While I don't think The Kings Speech was particularly good (I'm still shocked it beat Black Swan, Inception, and The Social Network for Best Picture), I can appreciate that pop culture trash can be better marketed. I tend to think some of that stuff, like Transformers, at least has some redeeming qualities (the CGI is good, etc). I struggle to understand what those are for Twilight and 50 Shades.

Well, I wouldn't look to erotica for role models for any of my kids, personally, but I think you're going a bit far. Twilight's popular, sure, but so is the Hunger Games series.

Great point. I guess it concerns me that those two series being popular (Twilight especially) automatically forces a lot of girls to A) like the novels because their friends do, or B) develop unhealthy expectations and notions of relationships. I like to think that a lot of this can be learned from experiencing a healthy parental relationship and having parents talk to their kids about them, but based on my experience a lot of kids DO get their notions of how relationship "should" work from media. And when it's gak like Twilight and 50 Shades (lots of HS girls were reading this when I was still teaching) it scares me a bit.

Honestly, the best thing to do with the 50 Shades nonsense is sit back and take great amusement at the slap fighting it causes in the radicalist spheres of the interwebz. Feminists really do not like that women like these books, and it's hilarious.

Too true. I stumbled upon an article on Jezebel (one of the most frighteningly, absurdly feminist sites on the internet) that is actually calling all the hate for 50 Shades misogynist, which I thought was a laughable stretch. So they don't like that women like the books, but they also don't like people criticizing women for liking the books. Or something.

MrDwhitey wrote:I feel this should go here. Upvoted to the max on The Red Pill:

Spoiler:

What the fu-

MrDwhitey wrote:"Upvoted to the max" basically means the people on that forum heavily agree/approve of it.

"The Red Pill" is a subforum on Reddit "The Red Pill: Discussion of sexual strategy in a culture increasingly lacking a positive identity for men."

Amusingly their idea of "positive identity" is "Pickup artist" or "sexual assault" and "Women are not human, they exist to please us".

oh. Oh, that explains it. Still, frelling hezmana I need a shower after reading that.

 n0t_u wrote:

aconissa answered:

50 Shades of Grey was originally fanfiction based on the Twilight series

And just like that this entire 50 shades thing is completely and entirely explained to me.

Bloody hell, how did I miss that? It all makes so much more sense now...