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 Azreal13 wrote:
Speculation here, but what if Psybolt was an army wide rule that gave all bolt guns and derivatives rending?

Might explain some of the points costing, and the absence of the option, without making it disappear entirely.

That would seem too good but seems cool though as well.

The problem I see with that is that a psycannon is an assault cannon with psybolt ammo. An Assault cannon already has rending so the psybolt ammo would do nothing for it.

Although it is such a funky gun that isn't a staple to the 40k universe so it's entire stat profile could just be different with the new codex.

The only way that I view the removal of Inquisition is that I will have less options. It is literally impossible for me to care less about GW fluff; my personal opinion is that fluff has no place in a game unless it actually shapes play. My experience is that if you play any army strictly by fluff, you are likely to lose. Fluff is great for people who like to "forge the narrative" but not great for people like me who would like the ability to take a (singular) army and have the possibility to win with it.

My opinion is that a varied codex with multiple options caters to both styles of play; you have the option to play fluffy and I have the option to include a variety of units in my army lists while we both utilize one (1) codex. The reality is that GW sees an opportunity to monetize unit entries and so has created a system to remove these entries create an electronic product through which to sell them to consumers. I don't like to ally nor flip through multiple sources when I don't recall rules (see my signature line). I play once or twice per month and would rather enjoy the time playing a game rather than easter egg hunting rules through hardback and electronic "books."

This is not "whining" or wishing for "an auto-win button". The codex now has less options than before which means less variety and utility from my purchase. This is not a good thing in my opinion. I'm more than happy to wait and see what comes out later this week but it's not looking so chipper thus far.

YMMV.

 exploited751 wrote:

Incoming.... "well my henchmen are gone" well that's good cause you were probably running (2) 3 man squads to fill FOC which is just silly lame thing to do or you were running monkey trucks but probably never even bought the models cause they were expensive and just embarked in chimeras. Also there's an Inquisition codex that came out last year, if you were truly a big fan of the Inquisition, you probably would have already purchased it and shouldn't be complaining. It did come with a few cool relics and a real warlord table.

I have been running pure GKs with good success, I win some and I lose some, I love the look of my army and I have fun.

Its still 25 more bucks to play even if they where using them for 3 man mana batteries or filling out mandetory troop choices. fact is people now have to shell out another 25 + 20 to run things they might of gotten in the last book regardless if they are true fans or not.

the only plus side is now i can run assassins without the GK.

 agnosto wrote:
The codex now has less options than before which means less variety and utility from my purchase.

Which codex are you referring too? The one that hasn't been released yet and there is no leaked images of?

Are you a sorcerer?

Did you cast the level 4 dungeons and dragons spell Scry? Are you reading it now?

TLDR, quote should read the sky is falling.

Well we actually do know there isnt anymore Inq in it due to the leaked builder.

Preliminary and unfinished as it may be

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Well we actually do know there isnt anymore Inq in it due to the leaked builder.

Preliminary and unfinished as it may be

Read your statement again. You literally just typed we do know there is no more inquisition.

And that your statement is based off something preliminary and unfinished.....

Does anyone actually think before they type? I know lots who don't think before they speak but before you type....That is a feat in it's own sir.

Anyways I am not saying the inquisition is going to be in the new book (most likely not) but who knows what rule/point cost changes are going to be in the book to counterbalance it.

Every time a new codex comes out people complain about what they lost. But never mention the amazing things they gained. You are just going to focus on the negative experiences and not the positive ones.

 easysauce wrote:
considering that the price drop on teleporters for DK's ALONE makes up the points letting me actually take GK SS's as troops, something I wanted to do but couldnt due to the prohibitivly expensive DK and interceptors with jump packs, I call it a win.

Look at what this person is saying.

The DK, based off preliminary and unfinished information, looks to be 60-70 points cheaper. Sure his sword probably won't be OP, but it seems like it is going to a be a lot cheaper. Overall probably better point for point.

 exploited751 wrote:

 agnosto wrote:
The codex now has less options than before which means less variety and utility from my purchase.

Which codex are you referring too? The one that hasn't been released yet and there is no leaked images of?

Are you a sorcerer?

Did you cast the level 4 dungeons and dragons spell Scry? Are you reading it now?

TLDR, quote should read the sky is falling.

I fail to see the reason for your tone. This thread has leaked images from the army builder built into the iBook version of the codex which has removed all of the inquisition units and assassins from the army. I suppose I could be as rude as yourself and question your eyesight, memory or ability to perform simple problem solving in locating those images.

I did not infer nor outright state that "the sky is falling"; I simply expressed my consternation about losing a fair few units from the current codex which will obviously impact variety of play styles and certainly the number of options available to me. I also expressed my displeasure with being forced to referrence several sources of rules should I choose to continue playing as I have until now.

Considering the fact that the builder didnt have any Inquisition options listed, and the fact that they actually have their own codex. Its a safe bet.

But thats all we have to go off now.

 exploited751 wrote:


Every time a new codex comes out people complain about what they lost. But never mention the amazing things they gained. You are just going to focus on the negative experiences and not the positive ones.

 easysauce wrote:
considering that the price drop on teleporters for DK's ALONE makes up the points letting me actually take GK SS's as troops, something I wanted to do but couldnt due to the prohibitivly expensive DK and interceptors with jump packs, I call it a win.

Look at what this person is saying.

The DK, based off preliminary and unfinished information, looks to be 60-70 points cheaper. Sure his sword probably won't be OP, but it seems like it is going to a be a lot cheaper. Overall probably better point for point.

Hey everybody, this guy is totally right!

Sure, we might not get any new models. Sure, they may have scrapped 40% of the entries in this codex... But we got some points reshuffling everybody! Cheer up!!!

 Elmir wrote:

 exploited751 wrote:


Every time a new codex comes out people complain about what they lost. But never mention the amazing things they gained. You are just going to focus on the negative experiences and not the positive ones.

 easysauce wrote:
considering that the price drop on teleporters for DK's ALONE makes up the points letting me actually take GK SS's as troops, something I wanted to do but couldnt due to the prohibitivly expensive DK and interceptors with jump packs, I call it a win.

Look at what this person is saying.

The DK, based off preliminary and unfinished information, looks to be 60-70 points cheaper. Sure his sword probably won't be OP, but it seems like it is going to a be a lot cheaper. Overall probably better point for point.

Hey everybody, this guy is totally right!

Sure, we might not get any new models. Sure, they may have scrapped 40% of the entries in this codex... But we got some points reshuffling everybody! Cheer up!!!

This guy has a point!

well, yeah, its a gain...

I took INQ in my armies because other choices were totally, 100%, not viable compettitively...

if your grey knights army was NOT coteaz + henchmen, you were not feilding the most comp list. every single GK army would take the same thing, and grand masters along with libbies and everything else were horrible choices.


now, I can still take cotez + henchies if I want to, but it looks like the actualy GK choices in HQ will be viable, and lots of stuff might have pts decreases to make pure GK viable.

it will be nice to have the option to take a full GK list without torqumada "auto take" coteaz and his 6 henchment buddies

 easysauce wrote:
well, yeah, its a gain...

I took INQ in my armies because other choices were totally, 100%, not viable compettitively...

if your grey knights army was NOT coteaz + henchmen, you were not feilding the most comp list. every single GK army would take the same thing, and grand masters along with libbies and everything else were horrible choices.


now, I can still take cotez + henchies if I want to, but it looks like the actualy GK choices in HQ will be viable, and lots of stuff might have pts decreases to make pure GK viable.

it will be nice to have the option to take a full GK list without torqumada "auto take" coteaz and his 6 henchment buddies

The viability of a pure GK army is the main issue in the new codex.

I often took Inquisitors as my HQ because that freed-up points elsewhere for extra hammers or maybe a teleporter for my DK...

 easysauce wrote:
well, yeah, its a gain...

I took INQ in my armies because other choices were totally, 100%, not viable compettitively...

if your grey knights army was NOT coteaz + henchmen, you were not feilding the most comp list. every single GK army would take the same thing, and grand masters along with libbies and everything else were horrible choices.


now, I can still take cotez + henchies if I want to, but it looks like the actualy GK choices in HQ will be viable, and lots of stuff might have pts decreases to make pure GK viable.

it will be nice to have the option to take a full GK list without torqumada "auto take" coteaz and his 6 henchment buddies

Actually, Coteaz and henchies lies broken now. He can only take 3, and now the vehicles they ride in no longer are psychic pilots. Nor are they objective secured. So the nerf bat hit that one really hard.

Also... I don't think you are correct in saying that was the only GK build that was actually viable... It was the most abused, definatly. Mostly because of the silly BB combinations that 7th opened and powerdice generation. But crowe purifier lists (with cleansing flame being cast out of rhino hatches moving 12") and solo palladins with draigo was very strong as well. Just not AS abused as henchmen spam was. So saying any other builds were 100% not viable is bull excrement.

Mind you, nobody here, if you actually read through the thread, is really afraid that the new book won't allow people to field any powerful builds. My gripe (and seemingly I'm not the only one), is that they sucked the soul out of a very fun book to toy around with, and turned into a bland book with very little choices in every FoC slot. On top of that, they are almost forcing you to use allies because of the huge gaps they leave in unit types (longe range Anti-Tank being the most glaring one).

On top of that, they are almost forcing you to use allies because of the huge gaps they leave in unit types (longe range Anti-Tank being the most glaring one).

In view of the leaked information we have, this could be very true.

 agnosto wrote:
I often took Inquisitors as my HQ because that freed-up points elsewhere for extra hammers or maybe a teleporter for my DK...

same here,

now that supposedly the teleporters went way down, those pts can go towards actually having GK's in ones army instead of it being coteaz + henchmen + dk's every time.


personally, I am also hoping the hammer on DK's does something now too.

could be a lot of rules changes that we dont know about,

nemisis rules probably will change, lots of wargear might, the relics and WL traits are all new, psychic powers will probably change (have we heard 100% either way about a GK spell chart?) things like true grit and psybolt are still on the table, lots of tweaks through formation rules and detachment rules, things like grand masters grand plan special rule could be a lot different.

 wuestenfux wrote:

On top of that, they are almost forcing you to use allies because of the huge gaps they leave in unit types (longe range Anti-Tank being the most glaring one).

In view of the leaked information we have, this could be very true.

long ranged anti tank was an issue even with the INQ stuff,

also, codexes are SUPPOSED to have a weakness, and a strength... we cannot all be eldar... is that what you are saying? every codex should be eldar broken and be good at everything?

I am a bit upset about no new models, but considering how much QQ came about when the DK was added (a great unit rules wize, looks wize some simple conversions make it awesome that way too) and that its still a fairly new dex im not too suprised.

 wuestenfux wrote:

On top of that, they are almost forcing you to use allies because of the huge gaps they leave in unit types (longe range Anti-Tank being the most glaring one).

In view of the leaked information we have, this could be very true.

Everyone loves money.

 easysauce wrote:

 agnosto wrote:
I often took Inquisitors as my HQ because that freed-up points elsewhere for extra hammers or maybe a teleporter for my DK...

same here,

now that supposedly the teleporters went way down, those pts can go towards actually having GK's in ones army instead of it being coteaz + henchmen + dk's every time.


personally, I am also hoping the hammer on DK's does something now too.

could be a lot of rules changes that we dont know about,

nemisis rules probably will change, lots of wargear might, the relics and WL traits are all new, psychic powers will probably change (have we heard 100% either way about a GK spell chart?) things like true grit and psybolt are still on the table, lots of tweaks through formation rules and detachment rules, things like grand masters grand plan special rule could be a lot different.

I'm actually looking forward to seeing changes in the rules and am cautiously optimistic that there won't be any holes leaving us without a stand-alone army.

I see people flailing around saying that reduction in units = The Sky is Falling...

Bet GK will still be better than the Orks and CSM codex hehe

 happygolucky wrote:
I see people flailing around saying that reduction in units = The Sky is Falling...

Bet GK will still be better than the Orks and CSM codex hehe

OMG...optimism...in a dakka thread. Sir what are we doing here?

I will say though the CSM book is pretty amazing with the Black Legion book. 6 man sqauds of plasma gun chosen and oblits are pretty crazy. And even with the nerf the helldrake is still a serious threat.(just takes a lil planning to use it, its not just point and click anymore.)

Not to say the book doesn't have it's garbage cause it does. Which does suck because they have some of the coolest models and options available for converting.

As for the GK codex, I am sure we will the see stat line of the Grand Master match that of a SM chapter master. It's kind of sad that the most elite of the elite Space Marine chapter is lead by a GM that has one less wound and can't move and shoot his orbital bombardment (which costs 50 pts) unlike the SM CM.

Exploited (ironic name) et al, please let me know how you want your crow prepared. Sous-vide requires a significant lead time and I want the crow eating experience enjoyable for all parties

Remember, sky isn't falling, just GWs financials, specifically their revenues and profits. Making more releases that confuse, frustrate, and alienate fans isn't a winning situation. And there's a signifcant difference between having an auto-win button and having your army go from comp legal to unbound and a request of $50+ to do so. Smart.

 exploited751 wrote:

 happygolucky wrote:
I see people flailing around saying that reduction in units = The Sky is Falling...

Bet GK will still be better than the Orks and CSM codex hehe

OMG...optimism...in a dakka thread. Sir what are we doing here?

I find it sad when we classify "well, it may suck, but at least we aren't those guys" as being optimism.

it only sucks if you were expecting to be the new eldar, so far the only real honest gripe people have is that they now have to pay for codex INQ and possibly assasins to feild the same units.

which is balanced out by the fat that INQ and ASS will now be available to the whole imperium, so our loss is someone elses gain in that respect. I never needed/wanted to include assasins in my GK, but I LOVED doing it in my IG back in the day, it will be nice to get that ability back

Except the Inquisition codex cannot be bought unless you're the kind of nerd who brings his ipad or laptop to a game.

Wait what's this about CMs moving and shooting the orbital?

 Sir Arun wrote:
Except the Inquisition codex cannot be bought unless you're the kind of nerd who brings his ipad or laptop to a game.

Or, you know, have access to a printer...

I don't have an IPad, and my Laptop is basically a folding Desktop (17") making it impractical to take anywhere, especially the Gamestore where space is limited and things have a tendency to get scooted or bumped.

That's the main reason I don't like the idea of factions only being available in a digital format. Also, physical books never stop working because the battery died.

 pretre wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:
Except the Inquisition codex cannot be bought unless you're the kind of nerd who brings his ipad or laptop to a game.

Or, you know, have access to a printer...

Though horribly ugly you could just transcribe it or shove it into your phone considering most phones today are tablets in them selves.


(unless you still use carrier pidgins)

Codex: Inquisition has about 60 pages of rules in ePub format, btw. Which, when you set to 4UP, means it takes 15 pages of paper (or 8 if you double side them). Certainly easier to carry than an iPad or laptop.

 Las wrote:
Wait what's this about CMs moving and shooting the orbital?

meant to specify in terminator armor. SM Chapter Master can do it, but GKGM cannot.