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I will miss the +2 Initiative from Halberds but... S4 base, +1S for Halberd and +2S for Hammerhand means hitting with S7. I can't complain about that!

Well I no longer have a use for any of my Purifiers armed with Halberds. Which is 95% of them. Now we hit at the same time as everyone else. I really wanted to give this Codex a chance after the initial outcry at the lack of new stuff, but I've seen nothing positive come of this release thus far. Just elite marines that are no longer elite.

PapaSoul wrote:
Well I no longer have a use for any of my Purifiers armed with Halberds. Which is 95% of them. Now we hit at the same time as everyone else. I really wanted to give this Codex a chance after the initial outcry at the lack of new stuff, but I've seen nothing positive come of this release thus far. Just elite marines that are no longer elite.

I think its come full circle; Grey Knights are meant to be a Ally choice rather than a actual army. I'm hoping he is still wrong, I'm starting to go into denial... I could just repaint them as Red Hunters, get all the SM dosh, still be a Inquisitorial army and the models I don't paint red can be my allied detachment.

Tyfus wrote:
Yes, they retconned Nemesis Doomfists!!) are a better option.

Really? They're gone?

Now all we need is "Bloodfists" gone when BA get updated.

looks to me that for every good change there are two bad changes. Psycannons are now pointless on models that are not terminators or the DKs. The halberds change is not welcome at all. I'm not sure what to think about the new Psilencer, its definitely not worse, but not sure how 'good' it is.

No new units at all has got me really angry. Goes against GWs mantra of 'BUY OUR MODELS!' I'm looking at my grey knights and thinking 'Sorry.. GW doesn't want me to buy anything for you.'

I dare say the psycannon change and removal of Psy ammo has turned the grey knights into a sub par shooting army. Making the Psycannon salvo makes the weapon very unattractive for Strikes, Interceptors and Purifiers, especially since the range hasn't been increased.

The greatsword being a much cheaper upgrade and being MW isn't bad tbh.

Any word on Purgators? Any changes to for them?

Really this codex is going to be so bland and empty of content other than fluff.. I feel cheated.

chnmmr wrote:
looks to me that for every good change there are two bad changes. Psycannons are now pointless on models that are not terminators or the DKs. The halberds change is not welcome at all. I'm not sure what to think about the new Psilencer, its definitely not worse, but not sure how 'good' it is.

No new units at all has got me really angry. Goes against GWs mantra of 'BUY OUR MODELS!' I'm looking at my grey knights and thinking 'Sorry.. GW doesn't want me to buy anything for you.'

I dare say the psycannon change and removal of Psy ammo has turned the grey knights into a sub par shooting army. Making the Psycannon salvo makes the weapon very unattractive for Strikes, Interceptors and Purifiers, especially since the range hasn't been increased.

The greatsword being a much cheaper upgrade and being MW isn't bad tbh.

Any word on Purgators? Any changes to for them?

Really this codex is going to be so bland and empty of content other than fluff.. I feel cheated.

Just play 5th edition... I doubt many people would give ya gak for doing that.

Quickjager wrote:

chnmmr wrote:
looks to me that for every good change there are two bad changes. Psycannons are now pointless on models that are not terminators or the DKs. The halberds change is not welcome at all. I'm not sure what to think about the new Psilencer, its definitely not worse, but not sure how 'good' it is.

No new units at all has got me really angry. Goes against GWs mantra of 'BUY OUR MODELS!' I'm looking at my grey knights and thinking 'Sorry.. GW doesn't want me to buy anything for you.'

I dare say the psycannon change and removal of Psy ammo has turned the grey knights into a sub par shooting army. Making the Psycannon salvo makes the weapon very unattractive for Strikes, Interceptors and Purifiers, especially since the range hasn't been increased.

The greatsword being a much cheaper upgrade and being MW isn't bad tbh.

Any word on Purgators? Any changes to for them?

Really this codex is going to be so bland and empty of content other than fluff.. I feel cheated.

Just play 5th edition... I doubt many people would give ya gak for doing that.

I'm debating cancelling my 7th ed codex preorder and sticking to the 5th ed codex. This new codex is a downgrade cash grab and is disgusting. I was hoping for something at least similar in power level to eldar/tau.

chnmmr wrote:

Quickjager wrote:

chnmmr wrote:
looks to me that for every good change there are two bad changes. Psycannons are now pointless on models that are not terminators or the DKs. The halberds change is not welcome at all. I'm not sure what to think about the new Psilencer, its definitely not worse, but not sure how 'good' it is.

No new units at all has got me really angry. Goes against GWs mantra of 'BUY OUR MODELS!' I'm looking at my grey knights and thinking 'Sorry.. GW doesn't want me to buy anything for you.'

I dare say the psycannon change and removal of Psy ammo has turned the grey knights into a sub par shooting army. Making the Psycannon salvo makes the weapon very unattractive for Strikes, Interceptors and Purifiers, especially since the range hasn't been increased.

The greatsword being a much cheaper upgrade and being MW isn't bad tbh.

Any word on Purgators? Any changes to for them?

Really this codex is going to be so bland and empty of content other than fluff.. I feel cheated.

Just play 5th edition... I doubt many people would give ya gak for doing that.

I'm debating cancelling my 7th ed codex preorder and sticking to the 5th ed codex. This new codex is a downgrade cash grab and is disgusting. I was hoping for something at least similar in power level to eldar/tau.

I wasn't expecting anything in that powerlevel. However Codex: Cash Grab, seems to be pushing people away from models they already have, to ones they will have to buy. More Termies, more Dreadknights, less Dreadnaught, less Transports, less PAGK.

chnmmr wrote:
I'm debating cancelling my 7th ed codex preorder and sticking to the 5th ed codex. This new codex is a downgrade cash grab and is disgusting. I was hoping for something at least similar in power level to eldar/tau.

This here is the problem with many 40k players. They want the OP stuff for their pet list and damn the game balance.

No chnmmr, GK's shouldn't be at (or as you ask for, above!) the Tau/Eldar power level, they should be at the power level of the other dozen codexes. Eldar & Tau should be toned down on their next iteration.

MaxT wrote:

chnmmr wrote:
I'm debating cancelling my 7th ed codex preorder and sticking to the 5th ed codex. This new codex is a downgrade cash grab and is disgusting. I was hoping for something at least similar in power level to eldar/tau.

This here is the problem with many 40k players. They want the OP stuff for their pet list and damn the game balance.

No chnmmr, GK's shouldn't be at (or as you ask for, above!) the Tau/Eldar power level, they should be at the power level of the other dozen codexes. Eldar & Tau should be toned down on their next iteration.

That would be ideal. But no, I'm going to have to live with a mediocre codex while playing against Tau/Eldar that table me every game I play. You misunderstand me MaxT, I would much rather have balance across the game, but its going to be -ages- till Eldar/Tau get balanced. Anyway, this discussion doesn't belong here.

chnmmr wrote:

Quickjager wrote:

chnmmr wrote:
looks to me that for every good change there are two bad changes. Psycannons are now pointless on models that are not terminators or the DKs. The halberds change is not welcome at all. I'm not sure what to think about the new Psilencer, its definitely not worse, but not sure how 'good' it is.

No new units at all has got me really angry. Goes against GWs mantra of 'BUY OUR MODELS!' I'm looking at my grey knights and thinking 'Sorry.. GW doesn't want me to buy anything for you.'

I dare say the psycannon change and removal of Psy ammo has turned the grey knights into a sub par shooting army. Making the Psycannon salvo makes the weapon very unattractive for Strikes, Interceptors and Purifiers, especially since the range hasn't been increased.

The greatsword being a much cheaper upgrade and being MW isn't bad tbh.

Any word on Purgators? Any changes to for them?

Really this codex is going to be so bland and empty of content other than fluff.. I feel cheated.

Just play 5th edition... I doubt many people would give ya gak for doing that.

I'm debating cancelling my 7th ed codex preorder and sticking to the 5th ed codex. This new codex is a downgrade cash grab and is disgusting.

Mate, I'd say go for it.

All too often on here and elsewhere you read or hear people say things that are basically 'I don't like it, but I'll buy it anyway'.It's no different to people who didn't like previous Transformers movies going to see the latest one. Dreamworks and Hasbro don't care if you enjoy the movie so long as you pay for a ticket, so long as people keep buying tickets they'll keep doing things they way they do. Same for GW, your enjoyment of their products comes a distant second to whether you're purchasing them. If enough people actually controlled themselves and didn't buy the stuff they criticise and lambast maybe every new release thread wouldn't be clogged up with complaints because GW might get the message and start changing they way they operate. Not if we keep buying sub-standard products, though. More power to the people who do say 'no, this isn't good enough, you don't get my money'.

Can anyone answer me if it would be possible to load up all the relics on a single HQ? Disregard for a second your own personal interpretation of the "1 for1" argument because we play it you can swap multiple times. It seems to be possible. There are only 2 weapon relics and you have 2 weapons you could swap out (NFW and Stormbolter for better versions in both). You could then swap the TDA for the special awesome armour, and then take the book to give you +1 power and the squad Santic rerolls of 1, and also the Bone Shard to get that cracking 3++ and 2++ vs Khorne Daemons.



The second question is what makes up the Nemesis Strike Force? It sound very interesting? Or is it just the GK detachment.

The new FOC, Draigo's changes and the new Titansword make me very very happy. Assuming Draigo keeps his same profile, that's 5 attacks on the charge at Int 5, Str 8 AP2, Daemonbane and Force, 4 wounds, 2+/3++ and EW. For many less points than before. Very happy.

edit: Also, have Grand Masters gotten the Chapter Master Treatment? Meaning that they are now not simply 25pt more expensive Captains with a special rule (that is now a Warlord Table). As they are Chapter Masters I'd like to see them get +1A and W over the Captain as the CM does in C:SM.

 Deadshot wrote:
Can anyone answer me if it would be possible to load up all the relics on a single HQ? Disregard for a second your own personal interpretation of the "1 for1" argument because we play it you can swap multiple times. It seems to be possible. There are only 2 weapon relics and you have 2 weapons you could swap out (NFW and Stormbolter for better versions in both). You could then swap the TDA for the special awesome armour, and then take the book to give you +1 power and the squad Santic rerolls of 1, and also the Bone Shard to get that cracking 3++ and 2++ vs Khorne Daemons.

Assuming you take the 'multiple relics can be purchased' interpretation, yes, it sounds like it.

Thanks pretre

Also, I got the instructions for printing epubs together if someone wants them. Or I can try to make a post somewhere.

I always liked GKT. I'm kind of glad to see more of a reason to run them.

I'm a little concerned about the codex though. I see this going back to the old days of running mostly terminators and hiding in your land raiders until you can't anymore.

Ha! Made an article:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Printing_ePubs

Hmm, these leaks have made me MORE interested in the GK I already have. I may have to look into blowing the dust off them, revamping the models and running an ally force for my IG.

Everything else I could see working, but the Psycannon tears it. A 24" Salvo is nothing more than a glorified pistol to anything without Relentless!!! The name of the game is movement with the shifting objectives and excessive firepower other factions possess.

Our worst fears are realised in the Psycannon. It was the one anti-armor/monstrous creature man-portable ranged weapon in the Grey Knight arsenal. We don't carry around Missile Launchers, Lascannons, Plasma Guns, Multi-meltas, or any of the other epic weapons the troops of other factions carry. The one thing w had was the Psycannon, and now GW has #&@%@'d it up.

The worst part is that Salvo would have been not only fine, but an improvement if they had just made it 36". Sure the lower profile would only be 18", but at least it would still be useful on the battlefield, before you're close enough to shove your finger up the enemy's nose.

If anyone is wondering why I'm so upset with this issue, is that the bulk of my 10,000 point Pure Grey Knight Army is Purifiers in Rhinos.

For emphasis, I have 41 Purifiers modeled with Psycannons.

I also don't like that Force and Hammerhand can't be cast by models in close combat, which means if you don't kill that rediculously tough monstrous creature in the first turn, you aren't going to.

Force on Psilencers is virtually useless. 6 shots at BS4 (assuming you're stationary) means you'll get 4 hits. Most multi-wound models will be T5 or better. So optimistically assuming the S4 shot is against a T5 enemy, you'll wound on 5+, bringing the average number of hits down to 1 1/3. Most of these Characters will have a 2+ armour save, and even if they don't, they'll have a 3+. So, once again optimistically hoping they'll have "only" a 3+ armour save, you have a 4/9 chance of getting 1 shot through. So the best case scenario, you need 2 Psilencers (Stationary, or 6 Psilencers if they moved) to deal a single wound, and that only has instant death if you passed the Psychic test and were not Denied. Psilencers are STILL worthless, but now they have the Psycannons for company.

Wait rules are out now?

Force psilencers?!

neet

ForeverARookie wrote:
Everything else I could see working, but the Psycannon tears it. A 24" Salvo is nothing more than a glorified pistol to anything without Relentless!!! The name of the game is movement with the shifting objectives and excessive firepower other factions possess.

Our worst fears are realised in the Psycannon. It was the one anti-armor/monstrous creature man-portable ranged weapon in the Grey Knight arsenal. We don't carry around Missile Launchers, Lascannons, Plasma Guns, Multi-meltas, or any of the other epic weapons the troops of other factions carry. The one thing w had was the Psycannon, and now GW has #&@%@'d it up.

The worst part is that Salvo would have been not only fine, but an improvement if they had just made it 36". Sure the lower profile would only be 18", but at least it would still be useful on the battlefield, before you're close enough to shove your finger up the enemy's nose.

If anyone is wondering why I'm so upset with this issue, is that the bulk of my 10,000 point Pure Grey Knight Army is Purifiers in Rhinos.

For emphasis, I have 41 Purifiers modeled with Psycannons.

I also don't like that Force and Hammerhand can't be cast by models in close combat, which means if you don't kill that rediculously tough monstrous creature in the first turn, you aren't going to.

Force on Psilencers is virtually useless. 6 shots at BS4 (assuming you're stationary) means you'll get 4 hits. Most multi-wound models will be T5 or better. So optimistically assuming the S4 shot is against a T5 enemy, you'll wound on 5+, bringing the average number of hits down to 1 1/3. Most of these Characters will have a 2+ armour save, and even if they don't, they'll have a 3+. So, once again optimistically hoping they'll have "only" a 3+ armour save, you have a 4/9 chance of getting 1 shot through. So the best case scenario, you need 2 Psilencers (Stationary, or 6 Psilencers if they moved) to deal a single wound, and that only has instant death if you passed the Psychic test and were not Denied. Psilencers are STILL worthless, but now they have the Psycannons for company.

Someone's not a happy bunny....

 pizzaguardian wrote:
S3 psilencers are essentially worthless except for that lucky roll of 6 to wound (the intended target of force is usually t5 or t6 ). Which requires at least 2 psilencer to target that unit...

well maybe not worthless but not reliable

ummmm no, you are just wrong sorry, st 3, with *6* shots per gun means that even when fishing for 6's you have a decent chance to insta gib stuff... keep in mind, you shouldnt have a huge chance to insta gib stuff, it would be really REALLY op if it was strong as well...

considering that every single other instant death ranged weapon in the game only does it on 6's, and that this one at least has the potential to do it on lower rolls vs t4 and lower, its a huge buff.

If double Gatling psylincers are a thing then 24 ST4 shots should put something down hopefully

ForeverARookie wrote:


If anyone is wondering why I'm so upset with this issue, is that the bulk of my 10,000 point Pure Grey Knight Army is Purifiers modeled with Psycannons.

Emphasis mine, and the very reason GW have done this. Everyone who wants to be competitive with Gk has loaded up on masses of Purifiers with Psycannons in Rhinos for the 5th Ed Codex/6th Ed rules meta.

Now everyone will have to buy new models! Aaaannnnddd! The 5 man kit only comes with 1 Psilincer (the 10 man kit comes with 2) as opposed to the 2 and 4 respectively for the Psycannons! So they'll need to buy even more models to get the maximum number on a Purifier/Paladin/Purgator squad. Its brilliant brilliant brilliant!

Plus, now Termies are now the flavour of the week with their ultra cheapness compared to other Termies and PAGK isn't great anyone.

And GW says they don't do market research

Yeah. Makes me glad I played the army, not the build.

 Desubot wrote:
If double Gatling psylincers are a thing then 24 ST4 shots should put something down hopefully

Is this true?!

I refuse to play that with my nids. Nope.


Nope.

 Wilson wrote:


Is this true?!

I refuse to play that with my nids. Nope.


Nope.

I assume you won't play IG either?

 daedalus wrote:

 Wilson wrote:


Is this true?!

I refuse to play that with my nids. Nope.


Nope.

I assume you won't play IG either?

Nope. I might play Astra Millatarum though

I'll take one DK w/dual gatling psilencers if it's allowed just to be able to pick off a DP or GD per turn

It would also destroy Wraiths which makes me smile.