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• The entire mob may replace their sluggas with shootas…1 pt/model

• For every ten models in the unit, one Ork Boy may replace their ranged weapon with one of
the following:
- Big shoota…
- Rokkit launcha…

Do i have to pay this extra 1 point for a shoota that's gona get replaced with a special weapon?

Yes you do. It's one point per model in the mob, not one point per model that's taking the upgrade.

Yes, agreed.

The thing is i can replace a sluga with a rokkit first. And than the boy won't have a slugga to pay this 1 ppm for a replace to shoota as i see it. There's not a word that the upgrade to shoota must be taken first.

If you have 10 Boyz and 1 of them replaces Slugga for Big Shoota, you now have 9 Sluggas left.

NOW, the entire mob may replace Sluggas for Shootas at 1 pt/model.

Ok, the entire mob chooses to do so. 9 models turn in Sluggas for Shootas as that is the entire mob's worth of Sluggas and you pay 9 points.

I'm reading it as you aren't able to pick and choose. When you choose that upgrade, everyone who currently has a Slugga pays a point and gets a Shoota.

Again, it is one point per model in the mob. If you have ten models in the mob, then it is ten points regardless of whether or not they're exchanging a weapon or not. You're trying to place a qualification on the rules (that the model must be eligible to make the exchange) that does not exist.

I think the confusion comes with
"• The entire mob may replace their sluggas with shootas…1 pt/model "

1 pt per model that has a slugga or just 1 pt per model.

pros: a model can't replace a slugga if it doesn't have it
cons: it's not specified that only models without sluggas shouldn't pay the tax even if they don't have them

Your 10 slugga boys are chilling.

You pay 5 points for a rokkit launcha, nice.

You then pay 1pt per model to give them all shootas, the guy with the rokkit launcha would then lose the launcher to take a shoota instead, paying back those 5 points, great savings.

You then buy him a rokkit launcha to replace the shoota he must buy along with the rest of his squad, 5 points. Bargain.

"The entire mob may replace their sluggas with shootas ...1pt/model"

I am reading that as being given the option to replace all of the sluggas in the mob with shootas at the cost of 1pt/model. If the entire mob decides to replace (I have satisfied 'the entire mob may replace their sluggas with shootas'), I would then pay 1 pt/model who actually made the swap.

If I have a model who does not have a slugga, please explain how I can replace his slugga with a shoota.

I think you're reading 1pt/model as 1pt/model in the squad whereas I'm reading it as 1pt/model who makes the swap.

RaW MIGHT be ambiguous here, but in my mind RaI seems very clear. If my model doesn't have a gun and isn't swapping slugga for shoota, he shouldn't have to pay the point. No replacement is happening. Your argument that he should have to pay the point makes no logical sense.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MagicMan wrote:
Your 10 slugga boys are chilling.

You pay 5 points for a rokkit launcha, nice.

You then pay 1pt per model to give them all shootas, the guy with the rokkit launcha would then lose the launcher to take a shoota instead, paying back those 5 points, great savings.

You then buy him a rokkit launcha to replace the shoota he must buy along with the rest of his squad, 5 points. Bargain.

This is completely wrong. The upgrade says to replace slugga with shoota. Not whatever gun you happen to have with shoota. Also, you can't pick rokkit launcha twice!

Except it doesn't say one point per slugga, it's one point per model and if the mob has ten models, it's ten points.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

It says 1pt/model.

This is ambiguous.

You think it means 1pt/model for each model in the squad.

I think it means 1pt/model for each model making the swap.

We are both inferring meaning from an ambiguous statement.

I believe my understanding makes more sense from a RaI standpoint because 9 gun swaps would cost 9 points. Your understanding results in paying for an upgrade that you do not get.

One point per model, not one point per slugga. It's not ambiguous.

Exactly. One point per model. The entire unit can swap at the cost of one point per model.

So.

"The entire mob may replace their sluggas with shootas ...1pt/model"

Step 1. I choose to have my entire mob replace their sluggas with shootas.

Step 2. I need to pay for this.

Step 3. I pay on a per model basis.

Step 4. How many models in the mob replaced their sluggas with shootas?

Step 5. 9 models in the mob replaced their sluggas with shootas.

Step 6. Looks like I need to pay 9 points... 1 point per model.

I never once said I was paying 1 point per gun. I'm paying 1 point per model. Only 9 models are participating in the upgrade, so I only pay 9 points... 1 point per model.

The codex says this:

"For every 10 models in the unit, one Ork Boy may replace their ranged weapons with one of the following:....."

The force requisition is also consistent with this wording.

So its 1 pts for each of the 10 models when turned into shootas and then you pay for the big shoota or the Rokkit Launcha. In whatever order I do this in the force requisition section of the Codex, I end up paying the same price.

The person who did the Battlescribe data file interpreted it like Kriswall says.

My paper codex doesn't have a force requisition app. I'm relying on the wording in the actual unit entry, but a supplemental army collection tracking tool.

 Kriswall wrote:
My paper codex doesn't have a force requisition app. I'm relying on the wording in the actual unit entry, but a supplemental army collection tracking tool.

In that case, the codex wording is this:

"For every 10 models in the unit, one Ork Boy may replace their ranged weapons with one of the following:....."

Unless it is not the same in the paper codex?

It is the same, but I'm not challenging that part. For every 10 models, I can take a Big Shoota or Rokkit Launcha or whatever.

That's fine.

And then the entire mob can swap sluggas for shootas at the cost of 1 point per model.

That's fine also.

When the entire mob swaps sluggas for shootas, only 9 swaps occur. so 9x 1 point per model = 9 points.

If I did the swap BEFORE picking a Big Shoota, I'd have 10 sluggas to swap and it would be 10 points. That would be stupid because I'd be wasting a point.

 Kriswall wrote:
It is the same, but I'm not challenging that part. For every 10 models, I can take a Big Shoota or Rokkit Launcha or whatever.

That's fine.

And then the entire mob can swap sluggas for shootas at the cost of 1 point per model.

That's fine also.

When the entire mob swaps sluggas for shootas, only 9 swaps occur. so 9x 1 point per model = 9 points.

If I did the swap BEFORE picking a Big Shoota, I'd have 10 sluggas to swap and it would be 10 points. That would be stupid because I'd be wasting a point.

:-)

Good point!

It sounds like the Force Req thing always assumes you are doing the slugga swap first.

Keep in mind that this app is written by the Black Library Digital Editions people and not the Rules people, so it's as open to error and interpretation as anything else that happens within GW but outside the rules studio. It's effectively like asking Customer Service what's going on. They didn't write the rules, so it's an educated guess at best.

 Kriswall wrote:
I think it means 1pt/model for each model making the swap.

You don't have permission for only some models to make the swap. The entire mob swaps their sluggas for shootas.

If anything, buying a rokkit first would simply stop the rest of the mob from being able to get shootas at all, since the entire mob no longer has sluggas to swap.

 insaniak wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:
I think it means 1pt/model for each model making the swap.

You don't have permission for only some models to make the swap. The entire mob swaps their sluggas for shootas.

If anything, buying a rokkit first would simply stop the rest of the mob from being able to get shootas at all, since the entire mob no longer has sluggas to swap.

I'm with Insaniak on this.

It says the entire mob.
If you take the Rokkit/Big Shoota first, that's great.
Now we're going to swap the entire mob's Sluggas for Shootas, but you can't swap the entire mob's Sluggas if one or more members of said squad lack a Slugga to swap. You are not fulfilling the requirement for taking Shootas, you are changing it from "the entire mob" to "Some of the mob/the entire mob except these guys", or something similar that is not valid.

If the entire mob has 9 sluggas and all 9 sluggas are swapped for shootas, I've fulfilled the requirement that the entire mob swap their sluggas for shootas.

"Their sluggas" refers to the population of sluggas owned by the mob. In the 10 man mob example, that population is 9 sluggas if I've already swapped on for a big shoota.

I'm not asking only some models to swap their sluggas for shootas. I asking every model in the mob that has a slugga to swap it for a shoota.

It doesn't say "All Models". It says "The Entire Mob". The entire mob does not assume that every model has a slugga. It just requires that all sluggas in the mob be swapped out for shootas at a cost of 1 point per model.

If it said "The entire mob may upgrade their Nobz to Painboyz ...10 pts/model", how many points would it take to upgrade a Nob in a 10 man mob to a Painboy? I would say 10 for the same reason that 9 sluggas costs 9 points. Your argument would have the Painboy upgrade cost 100 points. Same wording.

 Kriswall wrote:
If the entire mob has 9 sluggas and all 9 sluggas are swapped for shootas, I've fulfilled the requirement that the entire mob swap their sluggas for shootas.

"Their sluggas" refers to the population of sluggas owned by the mob. In the 10 man mob example, that population is 9 sluggas if I've already swapped on for a big shoota.

I'm not asking only some models to swap their sluggas for shootas. I asking every model in the mob that has a slugga to swap it for a shoota.

It doesn't say "All Models". It says "The Entire Mob". The entire mob does not assume that every model has a slugga. It just requires that all sluggas in the mob be swapped out for shootas at a cost of 1 point per model.

If it said "The entire mob may upgrade their Nobz to Painboyz ...10 pts/model", how many points would it take to upgrade a Nob in a 10 man mob to a Painboy? I would say 10 for the same reason that 9 sluggas costs 9 points. Your argument would have the Painboy upgrade cost 100 points. Same wording.

This is how I see it also. The painboy example is spot on as I would read it.

 Kriswall wrote:
If the entire mob has 9 sluggas and all 9 sluggas are swapped for shootas, I've fulfilled the requirement that the entire mob swap their sluggas for shootas.

"Their sluggas" refers to the population of sluggas owned by the mob. In the 10 man mob example, that population is 9 sluggas if I've already swapped on for a big shoota.

I'm not asking only some models to swap their sluggas for shootas. I asking every model in the mob that has a slugga to swap it for a shoota.

It doesn't say "All Models". It says "The Entire Mob". The entire mob does not assume that every model has a slugga. It just requires that all sluggas in the mob be swapped out for shootas at a cost of 1 point per model.

If it said "The entire mob may upgrade their Nobz to Painboyz ...10 pts/model", how many points would it take to upgrade a Nob in a 10 man mob to a Painboy? I would say 10 for the same reason that 9 sluggas costs 9 points. Your argument would have the Painboy upgrade cost 100 points. Same wording.

Huh, reading what you said and rethinking this, I'm on the fence about it...
I'm seeing it both ways and now I'm not sure.
:/

 Kriswall wrote:
IIt doesn't say "All Models". It says "The Entire Mob". The entire mob does not assume that every model has a slugga. It just requires that all sluggas in the mob be swapped out for shootas at a cost of 1 point per model.

Yet you're making the assumption that when you're told the price is one point per model, that it means it's one point per model with a slugga. You're trying to base the price off of only the part of the mob that would benefit from the upgrade when the price is determined by the number of models in the mob without exception.

I'd like to point out the "special weapons" options are phrased in a way that'd be useless if you could just get around the "all shootas" upgrade.
Why wouldn't it just say exchange their sluggas?

Mr. Marley. I have no idea what you're talking about. Could you be a little more specific?

I'm assuming by special weapons that you are referring to the big shoota and rokkit launcha.

Here is the quote...

"For every ten models in the unit, one Ork Boy may replace their ranged weapon with one of the following:
- Big shoota…X pts
- Rokkit launcha…X pts"

If you choose a big shoota first, you pay the 5 points and upgrade the slugga.

If you choose the big shoota second, you pay 1 point to upgrade to a shoota and then 5 points to upgrade the shoota to a big shoota.

It would HAVE to say Ranged Weapons to allow for you to upgrade a slugga OR a shoota.

 Kriswall wrote:
It would HAVE to say Ranged Weapons to allow for you to upgrade a slugga OR a shoota.

The point is that it wouldn't need to, because nobody would ever be upgrading a shoota when they can save a point by upgrading the slugga instead.

Options in codices should be taken top to bottom last I knew.

The entire mob (meaning the whole amount of number of models present in the mob in its entirety...) needs to pay to upgrade from sluggas to shootas.

 Awfeel wrote:
Options in codices should be taken top to bottom last I knew..

Nope, that's not a thing, nor has it ever been.