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I do think that bolt action suffers from some rules issues that they are only now dealing with. It's a good start though.

For example, tank veterancy only now means something with the latest errata. MMGs aren't that useful despite their historical importance.

They're also still figuring out how to curtail lists that emphasize too many order dice.

Small units like leaders really shouldn't be out on their own, they need to have some kind of joining mechanic to prevent the order dice situation from getting out of hand.

Inexperienced mortars, or any indirect only gun, are also an issue.

i fully agree with a leaders joining units mechanic... it really needs one.. also transports and the units they transport should probably also count as a single die

Warsmith262 wrote:MadMaverick. as far as 15mm terrain goes, foam core board is cheap and easy..Im about to start making some for my 15mm. Ill post some pics of my ruined city stuff when I get more into it. Until then I have next to no terrain making experience and managed these basic buildings for my FoF games.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/595198.page

The buildings i made i posted pics of are for 20mm so not much bigger!

Thanks for the link. I will have to try my hand at it. I bought a bunch of 28mm for my table, basically have a Stalingrad table going. 15mm is appealing though.

Vertrucio wrote:I do think that bolt action suffers from some rules issues that they are only now dealing with. It's a good start though.

For example, tank veterancy only now means something with the latest errata. MMGs aren't that useful despite their historical importance.

They're also still figuring out how to curtail lists that emphasize too many order dice.

Small units like leaders really shouldn't be out on their own, they need to have some kind of joining mechanic to prevent the order dice situation from getting out of hand.

Inexperienced mortars, or any indirect only gun, are also an issue.

I do think the miss balancing of the rules is nowhere near the unfairness some 40k rules create. The order dice spam is an issue though, is order dice capped? I would think a simple capping per so many points would help. Also not many power gamers in Bolt Action, possibly why I love it more.

I just bought some polish units to try my hand at this game. I like the idea of playing the opening battles of ww2 on the tabletop.

Warlord suggest capping at 12 order dice per side, and that's what tends to happen in tournaments that use their rules pack. It's quite convenient because that's how many you get in one pack of order dice.

The other option for avoiding min-maxing is to restrict a force to one reinforced platoon. That limits the amount of swanky stuff you can get and forces you to use more infantry squads.

I notice osprey publishes these bolt action books. Never had a chance to thumb through one, do the rules and army books have a lot of historical information and artwork?

yes to the artwork. Same also goes for Force on force and I would imagine Field of glory..

 jedi76 wrote:
I notice osprey publishes these bolt action books. Never had a chance to thumb through one, do the rules and army books have a lot of historical information and artwork?

They have a big part of the rulebook dedicated to some of the history as well as all the little blurbs through out the book.

That's good I like osprey art and there is aIot of it. Most of us know the basic history but I think it's appropriate to put in historical info about small squads and platoons and how they fought in a game like this. But mostly like the pretty pictures

I was just about to put a post up about how good bolt action is and saw this thread. I've been playing and collecting 40k on and off for about 12 years. Like many people I needed a change (I'm going to keep collecting though!). I bought the Normandy starter set direct from warlord themselves and got it a few days ago.

What can I say I'm amazed at the quality of the miniatures, much more detailed than GW and plenty of options for uniqueness. They're also great fun to build. Having read the rulebook it seems like a great game to play and I've got my first game arranged for a couple of weeks so I will report back.

If anyone was in any doubt about switching over, looking for a new game systems to play or just giving it a go, don't hesitate! You won't regret it!

chrismck wrote:
I was just about to put a post up about how good bolt action is and saw this thread. I've been playing and collecting 40k on and off for about 12 years. Like many people I needed a change (I'm going to keep collecting though!). I bought the Normandy starter set direct from warlord themselves and got it a few days ago.

What can I say I'm amazed at the quality of the miniatures, much more detailed than GW and plenty of options for uniqueness. They're also great fun to build. Having read the rulebook it seems like a great game to play and I've got my first game arranged for a couple of weeks so I will report back.

If anyone was in any doubt about switching over, looking for a new game systems to play or just giving it a go, don't hesitate! You won't regret it!

If you are willing to move outside of GW, there are a great many systems that are loads of fun.

Bolt Action, Ronin, Saga, Wings of War/Wings of Glory, and others are all good rule sets that require a much lower outlay of cash while still providing everything you love about modeling and wargaming.

Just got my polish infantry box, a mortar and a 37mm bofors today. They shipped it from the UK on the 11th and it made it to me in the US on the 13th. Amazing shipping time. Models are awesome my only gripe is the bases. No bases with the mortar or anti tank gun.

 jdamaso111 wrote:
Just got my polish infantry box, a mortar and a 37mm bofors today. They shipped it from the UK on the 11th and it made it to me in the US on the 13th. Amazing shipping time. Models are awesome my only gripe is the bases. No bases with the mortar or anti tank gun.

The lack of bases with minis is a pain, but a trip to your local Home Depot can pick up washers, of the right size, for spare change. Plus, with Bolt Action, there is no set base diameter rules. Meaning you can base things however to fit your desired modeling look (I usually put my guns and crew on one base, but others put the gun on a base and each crew man on their own to make casualty removal easy).

 Maniac_nmt wrote:

 jdamaso111 wrote:
Just got my polish infantry box, a mortar and a 37mm bofors today. They shipped it from the UK on the 11th and it made it to me in the US on the 13th. Amazing shipping time. Models are awesome my only gripe is the bases. No bases with the mortar or anti tank gun.

The lack of bases with minis is a pain, but a trip to your local Home Depot can pick up washers, of the right size, for spare change. Plus, with Bolt Action, there is no set base diameter rules. Meaning you can base things however to fit your desired modeling look (I usually put my guns and crew on one base, but others put the gun on a base and each crew man on their own to make casualty removal easy).

Yeah I ended up using some 60mm bases I had left over from 40k. The bases that came with the infantry were not terrible but I will end up replacing them eventually.

For multi basing, may I suggest an old (GW, actually) tip - plastic curtain rings. Hang them on your mini's to denote wounds/casualties. Its' specific to individuals and will move along with the base.

I am definitely willing and bolt action seems to have won me over, however... I will always have a soft spot for 40k and the gw minis.

Id say the main issue is with LMGs and the fact they dont reflect reality.

Its not a WW2 game, but a game using WW2 figures.

Grand if ye want a more Hollywood experience, but not if you want to play the period and utilise some degree of historical tactics.

Horses for courses really, certainly seems popular, though for skirmish gaming WW2 it aint for me. Too much like 40k and tournament rather than scenario orientated. Plus I get all old grognard when I see people saying they are 'running flamers' in a WW2 game...

Out of interest Big P, what would you deem to be the most realistic WW2 game out there (at this kind of scale?)

I know I've heard of your own Battlegroup being more so than FoW at 15/20mm scale, but what about at 28/30mm?

Do like Bolt Action though, it's tremendous fun and as said very reasonably priced with some great miniatures.

There are a number of detailed sets but some aint that much fun!

Its hard to balance fun and fast gameplay with some degree of realism with believable abstractions.

I can think of two games that do it at this skirmish level.

Chain of Command would be what I would see as the 'realistic' option, in as much as any game can be, but it does let you utilise squad and platoon tactics from WW2 in a manner that feels right for the period.

There is also Normandy Firefight for real squad level action.

Im trying to write my own at present but doubt I will ever get round to it!

I am hooked on this game now. Picked up the old starter set an American M-8 and a german mortar team.

I have switched from 40k to Bolt Action. I have been playing since day one of Bolt Action and I am still finding out new things about the game new and interesting ways to build lists and new ways ti use units that are effective and historical.

I find the game is best played at 1250pts I run tourneys at that level the game has been incredibly successful. We get anywhere from 8-12 players on our game night it's on a Friday.

MuGu games in Everett wa if you live close by come in check it out!

 Kilkrazy wrote:
There are also some metal ranges for WW2 in 28mm and several ranges of 15mm metal or plastic, and a wide variety of 20mm/1:72 scale.

I'm thinking 1/72 is the way to go. 15mm just seems too tiny, 28mm lacks models. Plastic Soldier Company makes a bunch of good value 1/72 models and 1/72 is a more standard size so you can get vehicles and infantry from a lot of companies (Revell, Airfix, Italeri, Hasagawa, etc etc).

I'm sure it varies from place to place, but I can get a 1/72 Panzer IV for $9/model, a 28mm one costs $40/model. Basic German infantry from Warlord is $1.60 per model, 1/72 from PSC is 39 cents per model. So roughly a quarter of the price. The 1/72 is only about 20% smaller (obviously wouldn't play both in the same game, but it's close enough that you don't have to mess with the ranges if you don't want).

Once I finish my current batch of 'nids I think I'll grab a 1/72 German force and 1/72 either Soviet or US force to try and get some friends in to BA.

the problem for me is I want fast paced, with a good theme (WW2 in this case) and fun being the key.

There is the spectrum of:

Simulation<----->Fun

If you want a simulation heavy game, Try Heavy Gear! But I for one prefer my games with a heavy lean on fun. After all Isn't that the main reason we got into this hobby? to paint cool models and play fun games with them! I like the rifle is a rifle and machine gun is a machine gun style of play behind BA. As for scenario driven, well there are theatre selectors, which guide you into that direction and if you want to simulate that combat isn't fair and shouldn't have a 'points value' to it then agree to set forces with your opponent.

I have been loving Bolt Action. Picked up a small US Airborne army which sat on the shelf for a while. Luckily my local club just started picking it up during the mass GW exodus.

Loving the Warlord models so far too. For $100 you can easily get a 1000 point army for most countries. And the turn order style and pinning really makes the game feel dynamic. Obviously not a true accurate historical game (my marines fought the Germans last game), but it's a really fun somewhat balanced game.

I'm prolly going to split the new starter with another guy, which is great, means there's finally going to be a serious BA player around soon.

I did a demo Saturday; US (me) vs my friend (German) 4 units each, my sniper team rolled only 1s to hit, I had a squad whiped out, the game lasted 30 minutes or so, and it was damn fun.

My Friend bought the Japanse starter kit, I'm going toward British (Canadians), but it seems the local league got 2 Brits, 2 Russians, 2 Germans...I don't want to add to the Brit list, but US Army isn't inspiring to me, so I just might go full Burma and and with Chindits/Gurkhas for add laughter

 Twelvecarpileup wrote:
I have been loving Bolt Action. Picked up a small US Airborne army which sat on the shelf for a while. Luckily my local club just started picking it up during the mass GW exodus.

Loving the Warlord models so far too. For $100 you can easily get a 1000 point army for most countries. And the turn order style and pinning really makes the game feel dynamic. Obviously not a true accurate historical game (my marines fought the Germans last game), but it's a really fun somewhat balanced game.

While a fan of history, any wargame isn't going to be truly 'historically accurate' because there is always a chance that the wrong side will win or certain elements are killed off that survived, etc.

Bolt Action is good in that it realizes that it is very difficult to find specific battles/area only groups, and allows you to play across theatre. I am all in favor of keeping it historically accurate, up to a point, but the rules shouldn't be designed to force it which would make it next to impossible to find a game. I certainly don't want to pit my US Airborne against a British 8th Army group, that's not to exciting. However, not everyone will have a Japanese army for your US Marines to fight.

So enough history to satisfy the reason we're playing the game, but not so much that you cross out the what-if factor (because if we didn't want some degree of what if we wouldn't play the game at all, it's just the degree of what-if that is debatable).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
I did a demo Saturday; US (me) vs my friend (German) 4 units each, my sniper team rolled only 1s to hit, I had a squad whiped out, the game lasted 30 minutes or so, and it was damn fun.

My Friend bought the Japanse starter kit, I'm going toward British (Canadians), but it seems the local league got 2 Brits, 2 Russians, 2 Germans...I don't want to add to the Brit list, but US Army isn't inspiring to me, so I just might go full Burma and and with Chindits/Gurkhas for add laughter

Polish Airborne? I ended up with US Airborne (as I almost always tend to favor the US when given the option), but was sorely tempted to build up a Polish Airborne group (and still might someday). I liked that hard luck get the crappy job nature of them, yet resourceful enough to grimly pull it off.

I'm happy enough that someone else is picking up Germans, meaning I can stick to my US platoon and not be that guy for a change.

 Maniac_nmt wrote:

 Twelvecarpileup wrote:
I have been loving Bolt Action. Picked up a small US Airborne army which sat on the shelf for a while. Luckily my local club just started picking it up during the mass GW exodus.

Loving the Warlord models so far too. For $100 you can easily get a 1000 point army for most countries. And the turn order style and pinning really makes the game feel dynamic. Obviously not a true accurate historical game (my marines fought the Germans last game), but it's a really fun somewhat balanced game.

While a fan of history, any wargame isn't going to be truly 'historically accurate' because there is always a chance that the wrong side will win or certain elements are killed off that survived, etc.

Bolt Action is good in that it realizes that it is very difficult to find specific battles/area only groups, and allows you to play across theatre. I am all in favor of keeping it historically accurate, up to a point, but the rules shouldn't be designed to force it which would make it next to impossible to find a game. I certainly don't want to pit my US Airborne against a British 8th Army group, that's not to exciting. However, not everyone will have a Japanese army for your US Marines to fight.

So enough history to satisfy the reason we're playing the game, but not so much that you cross out the what-if factor (because if we didn't want some degree of what if we wouldn't play the game at all, it's just the degree of what-if that is debatable).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
I did a demo Saturday; US (me) vs my friend (German) 4 units each, my sniper team rolled only 1s to hit, I had a squad whiped out, the game lasted 30 minutes or so, and it was damn fun.

My Friend bought the Japanse starter kit, I'm going toward British (Canadians), but it seems the local league got 2 Brits, 2 Russians, 2 Germans...I don't want to add to the Brit list, but US Army isn't inspiring to me, so I just might go full Burma and and with Chindits/Gurkhas for add laughter

Polish Airborne? I ended up with US Airborne (as I almost always tend to favor the US when given the option), but was sorely tempted to build up a Polish Airborne group (and still might someday). I liked that hard luck get the crappy job nature of them, yet resourceful enough to grimly pull it off.

Its a shame the weapons are not portrayed in an historical manner though.

I tend to agree with that slightly, but I think it works for the system. The simplification is what I like the most about BA. I looked into FOW, and the rules were just too much. BA just requires a play-through or two and you know, actually KNOW, almost 75% of the rules off the top of your head. It is one of the greatest things that can happen to a wargamer!