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Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Toledo, OH

Big P wrote:
Yay!

Lets trot out baseless stereotypes! Its such fun!


Personally the only cranky gamers I have met were 40k gamers who spent more time arguing about the rules than playing. Though thankfully 99% of gamers I have met over 30 years in the hobby have been fine people regardless of their preferred genre.


You can call it a broad generalization, but it's not baseless.

I've worked a couple of conventions for Armorcast, the resin terrain company. GW players would look at the stuff, and maybe buy a piece. Historical guys would look around, ask for highly specific things like 15mm Feudal Japan, complain about the prices, mutter about how they could scratch build the stuff, and leave without buying anything. It left a bad taste in my mouth, for sure.

I've also witnessed two older guys viciously arguing the relative merits of their homebrewed American Civil War rules sets. One guy felt that since his games weather charts were based on location, while the other guy only had a single weather chart, his was the only one not hopelessly simplified.
   
Made in us
Haughty Harad Serpent Rider





Richmond, VA

 Polonius wrote:
Big P wrote:
Yay!

Lets trot out baseless stereotypes! Its such fun!


Personally the only cranky gamers I have met were 40k gamers who spent more time arguing about the rules than playing. Though thankfully 99% of gamers I have met over 30 years in the hobby have been fine people regardless of their preferred genre.


You can call it a broad generalization, but it's not baseless.


There is a sterotype - the button counter! Gotta make sure the correct number of buttons are on a miniature soldier's uniform in the correct position etc etc

Amusingly I am also a historical wargamer (I love Ga Pa - best historical ruleset ever made - and the WSS is one of my favorite periods) but I'm very much a "close enough" kinda guy

"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke 
   
Made in ca
Posts with Authority




I'm from the future. The future of space

They stereotype in question a result of the pre-internet days where the only way people really found out about historical games was by contacting other people who were interested-- and who would be most likely to be enthusiastic about history to the point of wargaming it? The pedantic know it all.

I've found that over the last 15 years, they've lost their stranglehold on the historical miniature gaming hobby. They're no longer the driving force of local gaming because people can find other interested parties so easily thanks to things like social media. For example, the vast majority of my opponents were found on a local facebook group for board games. I asked if it was okay to talk about miniature wargaming there and also brought some demo games to the monthly gaming day.

When someone is interested in board games in general, they're intersted in a potentially infinite number of themes (settling the island of Catan, taking train rides across the continent, control trade in a port, 16th century agriculture, etc,). So you tend not to get the self styled experts, obsessive about one era. Instead you get people focused on fun.

Flames of War also came onto the scene at a perfect point as far as demographics goes. With the LOTR license GW decided to double down on the teenage target market. This was at a time when the children of the babyboomers were reaching adulthood. So you had all these 20ish year olds feeling less and less satisfied with GW's product offerings and then Battlefront swoops in with a WW2 game targeted at those individuals. Since then miniature makers of all kinds have not been shy about going after existing players of GW-style games. Bolt Action offers a very familiar place to land for someone bailing out of 40k.

There certainly are still hold outs. I'm sure if you go to some of the larger historical conventions you'll come across the pedantic know-it-alls of yesteryear. They didn't quit just because a bunch of new blood has entered into the fray over the last decade or so. When it all comes down to it, all their talk about getting it right means "getting it right in a way that is important to me!" and if the fun of others is sacrificed in the process, they tend to select themselves out of positive community development.


This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2014/09/23 04:06:26


Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better. 
   
Made in nl
[MOD]
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Cozy cockpit of an Archer ARC-5S

"Achtung Schweinehund" is a fun book that delves into some aspects of the stereotype, especially with the miniature game shopkeepers of the pre-internet days, where in one case the writer stood in front of the man for a good twenty minutes waiting to buy some minis, only to be constantly ignored as the shopkeep kept rummaging through drawers and trying to look as busy as possible.



Fatum Iustum Stultorum



Fiat justitia ruat caelum

 
   
Made in us
Dangerous Outrider




Maine USA

Just coming in here to put in my two cents...small response cause I'm on my phone.

Been playing bolt action for a few days and I love it. Simple , elegant and plays like you would expect a 28mm shooter to play. It's really a game that I had expected 40k to play like, but seeing as 40k is spam and move as fast as you can that's out of the c cards for me. This is much slower, thoughtful, a much larger focus on cover.

Plus, the pinning system is great. I'll take this over 40k any day.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Had a large game of this last Saturday afternoon into the evening, four players per side.

This ruleset actually does Apoc style games, i.e. big one, well - it can struggle with single large forces but four 750pts forces per side worked pretty well.

There are issues with the rules, but I think V2 will be better and by the time it gets to V3 a lot better.

Just wish Warlord would make their mind up if this is a squad level skirmish game or a platoon level skirmish game, at the moment its an odd mix. The infantry rules are good, while you cannot split fire you can take multiple smaller units to get a similar effect in smaller games - doesn't scale up very well though but a nice compromise at a small scale. The pin system is very nice, but would prefer something akin to the other Warlord games on the order system - specifically always rolling to see if the order is passed but with the ability to act on a units own initiative instead of issuing orders. At the moment the initial phases of the game are too predictable and the later stages when units have a few pin markers can seriously slow down.

That said its a fun game, tempted to get some US MArines to face off against my Japanese and then have two armies to try and get a few more people playing this.

The special rules for the various powers are not that bad, and where the rules have a level of complexity they generally make enough sense that its easy to remember.

Can see this expanding slightly to be a very good ruleset over the next few years.

Just wish they had gone with a D12 or D20 based system and not a D6 one though, would have provided a lot more scope for minor changes between units experience level and general skills than the 1-6 system currently used has. Minor point though really.
   
Made in us
Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine






NJ, USA

I agree that the game will only get better with some refinements. The problem my friends and I have is partially with the pin system and the difficulty in removing pins after a certain point. Although realistic, it does add some complication that can tend to just be a real nuiance. Some games, I just focus fire on a squad to just pin it, I was able to pin an entire squad by the second turn while only killing two or three members of the squad, effectively removing them for the rest of the game.

I also hope we see some refinement and update to the vehicles. Their usage during WW2 was wide spread, but their application in Bolt Action seems very minimal given their hefty point sink. I purchased a Sherman and a Panzer, and not much else.

I highly recommend that you guys look into the Gates of Antares. I recently signed up to be a tester, the rules are simple and very comparable to Bolt Action in regards to the pinning and turn sequence. Basically though I have found a new purpose for my 40k models as the recent additions of 40k have just become too complicated for recreational play!

An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded

Starter 40k Army Lists for Beginners!

One Chapter to rule them all: SW to BA Conversion  
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan





SoCal

Even alessio has voiced concerns about how pinning is working and how useless the rally order is right now. Not so much in those words, but he already said specifically that for a future version, he would make rally tests on base morale.

This is compounded by the game being an old style 6 turn game, so wasting an entire turn trying to rally isn't worth it.

   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Agree the turn limit is a bit pants, I like how FoW handles that, you have a 'end condition' which ends the game which is not always the same as the win condition, otherwise you just keep going.

Found that pinning is a case of hit a unit for a few pins, then ignore it, in a six turn game its now out of it. Its partly why I fun Japanese, you have to kill them to stop them.. Ok Banzai! has a few limits but you do at least have to actually deal with them.

Good to see Warlord are aware of the issue, dare say its like some of the issues GW has, doesn't come up in play testing, nice to see they are taking notice of things for these games though and making changes to lead to a better game with it.

Its a game I enjoy, don't get all that much chance to play it, and its not one I plan on spending much more cash on.

Don't like the tank war stuff, why on earth you would play a tank v tank conflict in 28mm is beyond me - use the rules by all means but in 15mm or smaller.. There are much better vehicle rules out there, hell even FoW handles vehicles in a way that makes more sense - ok, stunned, dead, nice and simple with a separate mechanic for 'got stuck'. BA is trying to be a bit too detailed with the on fire stuff, adds colour but seems not worth it.

In 28mm either go very detailed with damage results - like shooting tracks off so as to immobilise or limit to turning on the spot with a chance of further breakdowns, wounding individual crew members, damaging optics or weapons etc or just keep it very simple.
   
Made in jp
Enigmatic Sorcerer of Chaos






I haven't played a Warhammer game in years due to isolation and lack of opponents (and who wants to play in centimetres anyway?) I was recently looking for some painting tips on WWII camo when I came across Bolt Action on Youtube. I was hooked! The rules were easy enough to understand without even playing, the minis from Warlord and other historical mini companies look amazing and, for synchronicity's sake the hat trick, I found a gaming club in 東京 and this is what they play....along with Napoleonics.

I'm hoping to head to Akihabara and pick up some guys to see how they paint up (Soviet Anti-tank dog bombs?!! Yes, please) and then place a big fat order on the internet.
   
Made in gb
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





Nottinghamshire, UK

Due to arules misunderstanding I played a game where we took morale tests for all orders except Rally, which we counted as succeeding automatically . I'm not sure how we arrived at that conclusion but at least it meant units weren't bound to be taken out of the game entirely by a few pin markers.

Driven away from WH40K by rules bloat and the expense of keeping up, now interested in smaller model count games and anything with nifty mechanics. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Gig Harbor, WA

Anyone here played tank war yet? How strong/survivable are tanks in bolt action?

I've been thinking about picking up the starter set, although not sure if I should get the new one or the old one.
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





Southern California, USA

 argonak wrote:
Anyone here played tank war yet? How strong/survivable are tanks in bolt action?

I've been thinking about picking up the starter set, although not sure if I should get the new one or the old one.


While I haven't played tank war I can tell you that tanks are sort of a crap shoot. Either they'll die turn one or rampage across the battlefield. Depends on the dice.

I'd get the new one. It's similar to the old one except that you trade 10 krauts for a hanomag. You also get a lot more tokens.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/07 17:38:54


Thought for the day: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
30k Ultramarines: 2000 pts
Bolt Action Germans: ~1200 pts
AOS Stormcast: Just starting.
The Empire : ~60-70 models.
1500 pts
: My Salamanders painting blog 16 Infantry and 2 Vehicles done so far!  
   
Made in nl
[MOD]
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Cozy cockpit of an Archer ARC-5S

Not to mention a scenario booklet, waaaaay better than the leaflet in the first starter that just told you to read the rules and play a game.



Fatum Iustum Stultorum



Fiat justitia ruat caelum

 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





I am a TO at MuGu games in Everett WA we will be running a tourney on the 18th of OCT.

The Format we are using for the event integrates the tank book in a interesting way. You must take one and ONLY one armored Platoon and must take at least one Reinforced platoon the point level is 1500. In our test games this format has been a blast by forcing people to field at least 3 tanks it keeps the order dice down and the fun factor high.

Moving forward I think Tank platoons and Reinforced platoons together may be the way forward for this game. I love Bolt Action it's super fun. Give it a go you will love it.
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan





SoCal

 Fezman wrote:
Due to a rules misunderstanding I played a game where we took morale tests for all orders except Rally, which we counted as succeeding automatically . I'm not sure how we arrived at that conclusion but at least it meant units weren't bound to be taken out of the game entirely by a few pin markers.


Probably because it doesn't make sense otherwise. I mean, it's an order you would only use when a unit is pinned to all heck, and it's also unreliable in that it's D6+1, which usually is only enough to relieve a little pin pressure, not clear it. Thus the order is unlikely to do much to help, assuming it even works.

I'm pretty much going to play the rally rule as either on base leadership + command bonus, or even free if a leader is in command range (because 6" is a small radius in 28mm).

As for Tank War, the rules just aren't there for it. It's the same rules as regular BA for tanks, which are just basic. To be honest, tanks probably need some non-historical hull points, or a detailed damage system. The way tanks work now they're either trying too hard to stick with the infantry rules, or they're not trying hard enough.

   
Made in gb
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





Nottinghamshire, UK

 Vertrucio wrote:
 Fezman wrote:
Due to a rules misunderstanding I played a game where we took morale tests for all orders except Rally, which we counted as succeeding automatically. I'm not sure how we arrived at that conclusion but at least it meant units weren't bound to be taken out of the game entirely by a few pin markers.


Probably because it doesn't make sense otherwise. I mean, it's an order you would only use when a unit is pinned to all heck, and it's also unreliable in that it's D6+1, which usually is only enough to relieve a little pin pressure, not clear it. Thus the order is unlikely to do much to help, assuming it even works.


Indeed. I was thinking that it would only be used in when the men were unwilling to come out of cover, so it made sense that they would spend a full round psyching themselves up.

Driven away from WH40K by rules bloat and the expense of keeping up, now interested in smaller model count games and anything with nifty mechanics. 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

 Vertrucio wrote:
I mean, it's an order you would only use when a unit is pinned to all heck
That might be your problem right there. I think Rally is supposed to be used proactively, although it can be a tough choice. This is one where experience pays off.

   
Made in us
Haughty Harad Serpent Rider





Richmond, VA

I also believe it's intentional. Suppression and pinning followed by assault (which is why my group has been playing with the recent rule proposal of having pinning affect your close combat roll)

Don't forget a unit auto breaks when it has as many pin markers as it's Morale.


"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke 
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan





SoCal

If any unit was close to reaching its morale in pins, then it's already being ignored by experienced players.

Also, with the way HE works, and how they seem to want to escalate the game with more tanks. Units being pinned to ineffectiveness in a turn is common.

   
Made in us
Haughty Harad Serpent Rider





Richmond, VA

 Vertrucio wrote:
If any unit was close to reaching its morale in pins, then it's already being ignored by experienced players.

Also, with the way HE works, and how they seem to want to escalate the game with more tanks. Units being pinned to ineffectiveness in a turn is common.


A game I played last Saturday, 1939 Germany vs my new Polish force. Had a 14-man squad sitting on an objective. Took fire for 5 turns; I just kept it Down after turn 2, the 1 pin removed at the end of the turn by staying on Down kept me 1 pin away from auto losing the unit! It finally bit the dust on turn 6 due to casualties. It was being hit by a light howitzer, medium mortar, and rifle/mg fire from at least one squad for most of the game!

"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Do wonder if you could use the models experience to 'cap' pin markers, say a Veteran never has more than three, average no more than four and inexperienced no more than five, sort of to try and avoid the 'pinned to the point of being ignored' and mean that at least for more experienced troops you do actually have a chance of needing to actually stop them at some point not just blast and then ignore.
   
Made in us
Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine






NJ, USA

leopard wrote:
Do wonder if you could use the models experience to 'cap' pin markers, say a Veteran never has more than three, average no more than four and inexperienced no more than five, sort of to try and avoid the 'pinned to the point of being ignored' and mean that at least for more experienced troops you do actually have a chance of needing to actually stop them at some point not just blast and then ignore.


Interesting concept, but I like the fact that taking too much fire can remove a unit. I think the pinning system is great and just needs some tweaks, I agree with the commander idea. I have debated making that a house rule within my group...If your commander is within command range, you can use his leadership for orders. I believe that was similar to some old school 40k rules.

In regards to Tank War, I have heard it is a bit dull and I tend to agree. 28mm for massive armor battles doesn't seem to fit, I think Flames of War (not much experience with it) would do a better job at a better scale. I have been tempted to give FoW a try though, the difficulty of the rules has kept me away though.

An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded

Starter 40k Army Lists for Beginners!

One Chapter to rule them all: SW to BA Conversion  
   
Made in us
Purged Thrall





FL

Regarding pins to remove, I like the way the rules are. As for using the commanders leadership, the way it is now gives you an incentive to buy higher leadership HQs (so you can essentially ignore up to 4 pins).

Had a good game a few weeks ago where the objective was in the middle of the field, and my opponent had a great setup to keep me from crossing open ground to get to it. Luckily for me, after 3 turns my artillery finally came in and I caught all but one of his remaining units with it. Pretty much all his squads ended up with at least 3 pins and it outright killed his LT. Insult to injury, his flame squad failed a leadership AND fubared, wiping out a half strength squad that was covering it.

Anyway, pins force you to weigh risking action with the squad in a limited turn environment. And it being a dice game, you can never ignore a squad just because it's pretty pinned, all it takes is a stellar roll and that 'useless' squad can be back in action.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/10 03:13:35


 
   
Made in nl
[MOD]
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Cozy cockpit of an Archer ARC-5S

For those interested in Tank Warfare:



http://store.warlordgames.com/products/armoured-fury-bolt-action-tank-war-starter-set/

Price is £80.00

Available to pre-order from today, a special starter set containing everything you need to play Bolt Action Tank War!

Armoured Fury allows you to dive into action as either an American Sherman tank commander or become a Panzer commander of lethal Panther tanks. Filled with loads of awesome plastic tanks this boxed set is not only a great way to get started with Bolt Action Tank War but is superb value too!

The Armoured Fury boxed set contains:

Bolt Action mini-rulebook
Tank War supplement
Scenario booklet
3 plastic 1:56 scale M4 Sherman medium tanks
2 plastic 1:56 scale Panther Ausf. A medium tanks
10 six-sided dice
5 Bolt Action Orders Dice
Quick reference sheet
60 card Pin Markers and 2 Rulers (need cutting out)

The scenario booklet eases you into the game with four scenarios each escalating in scale until you’re ready to add more to your fledgling armoured formations. So whether you’re a die-hard Bolt Action player or new to the game completely this will get you up to speed quickly.

Bolt Action Tank War allows you to play the award-winning Bolt Action game with armoured formations as opposed to the more usual infantry-heavy forces. So, now your tanks can stalk the Normandy bocage, swarm across the open Russian steppes, duel with the enemy in the desert or ambush your foes in the steamy jungles of the Pacific!
Tank War is already proving to be an extremely popular way to play Bolt Action and Armoured Fury is the ideal way to join the action!



Fatum Iustum Stultorum



Fiat justitia ruat caelum

 
   
Made in au
Unstoppable Bloodthirster of Khorne





Melbourne .au

A nice price on that armoured-game starter set, given that the tanks are usually £20.00 each (10% off for 3+) and you get five of them here with the expansion rulebook, a mini-rulebook, more orders dice, etc. I reckon I'll pick this one up from one of the discount stores, since I don't have any Shermans or Panthers at present.

   
Made in se
Regular Dakkanaut





That is a slick looking set. Not entirely sure what I prioritize, the savings from the set, or the exclusive miniature you get if you buy the book separately

I like the look of the upcoming book "Battleground Europe" as well. If (or rather when) they release a North Africa/Mediterranean book I'll be all over that.

"Empty your pockets and don't move" 
   
Made in us
Haughty Harad Serpent Rider





Richmond, VA

 novaspike wrote:
Anyway, pins force you to weigh risking action with the squad in a limited turn environment. And it being a dice game, you can never ignore a squad just because it's pretty pinned, all it takes is a stellar roll and that 'useless' squad can be back in action.


Or when a reserve unit of fresh n' minty 14 Polish regular infantry arrives and is immediately pinned by a German sniper! *!@$& dice!!

"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke 
   
Made in nl
[MOD]
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Cozy cockpit of an Archer ARC-5S

Only exclusive you'll miss out on is this guy:




Fatum Iustum Stultorum



Fiat justitia ruat caelum

 
   
Made in us
Haughty Harad Serpent Rider





Richmond, VA

 MadMaverick76 wrote:

In regards to Tank War, I have heard it is a bit dull and I tend to agree. 28mm for massive armor battles doesn't seem to fit, I think Flames of War (not much experience with it) would do a better job at a better scale. I have been tempted to give FoW a try though, the difficulty of the rules has kept me away though.


I do not like Flames of War for armor as it encourages weird tank walls where tanks are side by side touching, so that one tank blocks LOS to other tanks, it's really very weird.
However, my brother and a couple friends love Battlegroup and they have declared they will play the same scenario in Battlegroup as well as Bolt Action to see which mass tank battles sytem they like the best (using their giant collection of 20mm armor)

"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke 
   
 
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