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sturguard wrote: "Helm of Durfast. Bearer rerolls failed to hit and gains ignores cover"
This is kind of funny, so what gun can a character get that is more than 12 inch range? I guess the one combimelta shot you get would ignore cover or the 2 combiplasma shots. How much does it cost?
Give it to a rune priest, suddenly those spells become quite a bit more nasty. That is the only model I can think of giving it to.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/08 01:52:52
Anpu42 wrote: [quote=Mywik 608942 7096065 b90a9fc803eeb95be91ec8f3328ad5cc.png
Sorry to see no ++ Save, but the rest look good. At least until the FAQ removes the Rending.
I dont see that coming. Its so crystal clear. The sentence is literally "All close combat attacks made by a model with a thunderwolf mount have the rending special rule."
Before there was an explicit exception and now theres nothing else than this sentence so im 100% sure its intended.
That just me being pessimistic for once. I am still upset from when they removed it from the last one.
Whats sick is that in the old codex you were able to buy 1 special cc weapon per squad. Now theres no such restriction anymore. You can mix and match how you want. Pair that with rending on all cc attacks and it gets nasty.
So does the Weapon Load out work? Same options at the old one, but without the limit or more like Wolf Guard?
Simple. Any model may take items from the melee weapons list. Which is the same list for everyone that has access to melee weapons (except terminators which have their own list). So same like WG.
This might be a pedantic question but I need to know for sure. TWC can take chainfists now? Can we get a rundown on point cost for special weapons available to them?
This makes me a very happy pup
Chain fist are restricted to Terminator Armor
Dang, guess I'll just have to stick with my rending thunderhammers then
Random Dude wrote: The Wolf Standard now gives +1 attack, right? Here's some fun addition for GH: 1 attack base, +1 for 2 cc weapons, +1 for standard, +1 for charge. 40 attacks on the charge is tearing through most infantry squads in the first round of combat.
And my Genestealers cry why they are not feared now more. Just curious, how much would all that cost for one mini?
16 points. 14 for base GH, +2 points for cc weapon.
Hmm. I guess ignores cover would be good for rune priests then..
Automatically Appended Next Post: Wow. Allied drop pod shenanigans.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/08 02:00:01
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Random Dude wrote: The Wolf Standard now gives +1 attack, right? Here's some fun addition for GH: 1 attack base, +1 for 2 cc weapons, +1 for standard, +1 for charge. 40 attacks on the charge is tearing through most infantry squads in the first round of combat.
And my Genestealers cry why they are not feared now more. Just curious, how much would all that cost for one mini?
16 points. 14 for base GH, +2 points for cc weapon.
OUCH! If I upgrade my Stealers, they are almost 20 points or close to it. Unit is so much better at CC and it can shoot. Not fair. Oh well. What can you do eh?
Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.
Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?
Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong".
pretre wrote: Hmm. I guess ignores cover would be good for rune priests then..
Automatically Appended Next Post: Wow. Allied drop pod shenanigans.
In unbound just about everyone can drop pod their army now. I mean allied shenanigans like poding gk paladins are one thing but this is going to be disgusting. Another reason not to play unbound Oo
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/08 02:06:12
Random Dude wrote: The Wolf Standard now gives +1 attack, right? Here's some fun addition for GH: 1 attack base, +1 for 2 cc weapons, +1 for standard, +1 for charge. 40 attacks on the charge is tearing through most infantry squads in the first round of combat.
And my Genestealers cry why they are not feared now more. Just curious, how much would all that cost for one mini?
16 points. 14 for base GH, +2 points for cc weapon.
OUCH! If I upgrade my Stealers, they are almost 20 points or close to it. Unit is so much better at CC and it can shoot. Not fair. Oh well. What can you do eh?
Of course, I might run it like this:
9 Grey Hunters (CC Weapons, 2x Melta Gun)
Wolf Guard (Combi-Melta, Powerfist)
Wolf Standard
Total: 235
*edit becuz math without the codex is hard.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/08/08 02:10:47
pretre wrote: Hmm. I guess ignores cover would be good for rune priests then..
Automatically Appended Next Post: Wow. Allied drop pod shenanigans.
In unbound just about everyone can drop pod their army now. I mean allied shenanigans like poding gk paladins are one thing but this is going to be disgusting. Another reason not to play unbound Oo
yeah but no one plays unbound...
Drop pod centurions or dominions or retributors with heavy flamers or SWS with demo charges.
Looking for great deals on miniatures or have a large pile you are looking to sell off? Checkout Mindtaker Miniatures.
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Lets look at the GH thing- so 40 attacks, against WS 4 opponents, thats 20 hits, 10 wounds, 3.3 dead marines. That assumes a whole squad of 10 charges in, which let's face it, wouldnt happen. Those genestealers would get all their attacks first, most notably the Broodlord so most likely 3-4 marines would die before they got to attack, if the BL got off his psycher power, the squad might not even be able to attack.
The Rune Priest spells dont have better AP than 4, so I don't know why you would want them to ignore cover- the str 7 is ap- so unless you are targetting skimmers it isn't going to help much as most times you will need a 5+ to do anything with str 7. I had already started skimming through Telekinesis spells and they have some nice ones, with low AP but you wont ever get them off as they are WC 2 and 3- unless you have multiple Rune Priests and you just cast one spell (casting a WC 2 spell on avg takes 5 dice and 3 would be 7).
sturguard wrote: Lets look at the GH thing- so 40 attacks, against WS 4 opponents, thats 20 hits, 10 wounds, 3.3 dead marines. That assumes a whole squad of 10 charges in, which let's face it, wouldnt happen. Those genestealers would get all their attacks first, most notably the Broodlord so most likely 3-4 marines would die before they got to attack, if the BL got off his psycher power, the squad might not even be able to attack.
The Rune Priest spells dont have better AP than 4, so I don't know why you would want them to ignore cover- the str 7 is ap- so unless you are targetting skimmers it isn't going to help much as most times you will need a 5+ to do anything with str 7. I had already started skimming through Telekinesis spells and they have some nice ones, with low AP but you wont ever get them off as they are WC 2 and 3- unless you have multiple Rune Priests and you just cast one spell (casting a WC 2 spell on avg takes 5 dice and 3 would be 7).
I've done multiple playtests involving this type of GH squad drop podding near a SMtac squad. Even with overwatch, the SW wipe out the Tac squad every time. As for Genestealers, I'm not sure what would happen because I've never played against them. I probably wouldn't charge the stealers though, I would rapid fire boltguns until they die.
*edit because I didn't read your entire post the first time.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/08/08 02:50:11
Can someone confirm the Lone Wolves entry? I had heard you can take one for every GH or BC squad and it doesnt count against a FOC slot.
Also, could you use the Fast Attack drop pod slot to put your own terminators in? I suppose you can but having a drop pod as a fast attack slot seems weird.
Just saying, rune priests are the only independent character who has a decent amount of shooting. Besides, its the twin linked I am more excited for with the rune priest. Living lightning is then just a step below tesla destructors (6" less range and no snap fire fun) Ignore cover is a nice bonus. Murderous hurricane against hordes isn't too bad with ignore cover.
The thought of an Iron priest joining up with some TWC is really awesome. I wonder how much of a point difference there will be between a TWC with thunderhammer, and an iron priest on TWC.
Also trying to figure out who would best be fit for some of those relics. The furious charge and armor of russ are the two that stand out the most to me.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/08/08 02:56:40
sturguard wrote: Lets look at the GH thing- so 40 attacks, against WS 4 opponents, thats 20 hits, 10 wounds, 3.3 dead marines. That assumes a whole squad of 10 charges in, which let's face it, wouldnt happen. Those genestealers would get all their attacks first, most notably the Broodlord so most likely 3-4 marines would die before they got to attack, if the BL got off his psycher power, the squad might not even be able to attack.
The Rune Priest spells dont have better AP than 4, so I don't know why you would want them to ignore cover- the str 7 is ap- so unless you are targetting skimmers it isn't going to help much as most times you will need a 5+ to do anything with str 7. I had already started skimming through Telekinesis spells and they have some nice ones, with low AP but you wont ever get them off as they are WC 2 and 3- unless you have multiple Rune Priests and you just cast one spell (casting a WC 2 spell on avg takes 5 dice and 3 would be 7).
I've done multiple playtests involving this type of GH squad drop podding near a SMtac squad. Even with overwatch, the SW wipe out the Tac squad every time. As for Genestealers, I'm not sure what would happen because I've never played against them. I probably wouldn't charge the stealers though, I would rapid fire boltguns until they die.
*edit because I didn't read your entire post the first time.
So the SM tact squad, knowing the GH were in a pod, just let them drop down and double tap them? They didnt hide in a rhino, or use a screening unit- or have a counter assault unit ready to wipe out a drop podding unit? Playtesting a unit against another in a vacuum, usually doesnt give you an accurate picture of what happens in a game, but if it works for you, stick with it.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
gwarsh41 wrote: Just saying, rune priests are the only independent character who has a decent amount of shooting. Besides, its the twin linked I am more excited for with the rune priest. Living lightning is then just a step below tesla destructors (6" less range and no snap fire fun) Ignore cover is a nice bonus. Murderous hurricane against hordes isn't too bad with ignore cover.
Your right, but I will bet the Helm is expensive, if I had to guess, I would say 40 pts (and this is just a wild guess).
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/08/08 02:58:56
Can we check if there are unit type restrictions on drop pods?
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Live in the Pacific NW? Check out http://ordofanaticus.com
sturguard wrote: Lets look at the GH thing- so 40 attacks, against WS 4 opponents, thats 20 hits, 10 wounds, 3.3 dead marines. That assumes a whole squad of 10 charges in, which let's face it, wouldnt happen. Those genestealers would get all their attacks first, most notably the Broodlord so most likely 3-4 marines would die before they got to attack, if the BL got off his psycher power, the squad might not even be able to attack.
The Rune Priest spells dont have better AP than 4, so I don't know why you would want them to ignore cover- the str 7 is ap- so unless you are targetting skimmers it isn't going to help much as most times you will need a 5+ to do anything with str 7. I had already started skimming through Telekinesis spells and they have some nice ones, with low AP but you wont ever get them off as they are WC 2 and 3- unless you have multiple Rune Priests and you just cast one spell (casting a WC 2 spell on avg takes 5 dice and 3 would be 7).
I've done multiple playtests involving this type of GH squad drop podding near a SMtac squad. Even with overwatch, the SW wipe out the Tac squad every time. As for Genestealers, I'm not sure what would happen because I've never played against them. I probably wouldn't charge the stealers though, I would rapid fire boltguns until they die.
*edit because I didn't read your entire post the first time.
So in this vacuum, the Tact squad didnt rapid fire the Space Wolves (20 shots, 13 hits, 6.5 wounds, 2 dead SW) or simply move away from the SW and single shot? Play testing a squad against a squad rarely gives you a good idea on how the unit will perform on the battlefield.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
gwarsh41 wrote: Just saying, rune priests are the only independent character who has a decent amount of shooting. Besides, its the twin linked I am more excited for with the rune priest. Living lightning is then just a step below tesla destructors (6" less range and no snap fire fun) Ignore cover is a nice bonus. Murderous hurricane against hordes isn't too bad with ignore cover.
Your right, but I will bet the Helm is expensive, if I had to guess, I would say 40 pts (and this is just a wild guess).
The point I'm trying to make is that GH have a huge statistical advantage against TAC marines in CC (Which happens to support the fluff).
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/08/08 03:00:24
But they cost more than Tac marines. And if the Tac marines are say IF, then some of them stand back up due to FNP. And those tact marine double tap those bolters just as well as GH and those GH die just as easily at Tac marines. And getting into assault is extremely difficult with any unit in 7th edition, it isnt something that just automatically happens- that is my point.
Random Dude wrote: Anyone else wishing DP were assault vehicles for all marines.
Fixed that for you.
Personally I'm still waiting for fast assault rhinos. That alone would fix so much. There's a pic in the old visions of heresy book that shows wolves firing from an open topped rhino, why can't any marines, wolves, templar, or blood angels figure out how to do that again?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/08 03:10:57
Dude, I would be happy if you could assault from outflank... or from a vehicle...
Making all vehicles assault vehicles would really help balance the shooting and assault phases. Do Drop Pod doors really have a delicate 12-step opening process?
Way back in 3rd edition a tactic was called the Rhino rush as it was easy to drive a bunch of rhinos up the board, disembark and assault. Many people didnt enjoy it and it made assault far more powerful than shooting. So the pendulum has swung to where shooting is more powerful than assault. I would prefer a balance.
Gwar, I am sure he meant assaulting once the pod has landed and no Dude you can't. You drop, then the following turn you may move and assault normally.
