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Ignore this.

 Exergy wrote:
If the rumors of Psybolt being gone are true, I for one am happy.

It made no sense. Sure you could put psy into bullets and make them better but then why wouldnt every marine do it. Why wouldnt CSM do it. (alright so Tsons do it) but really, it just always struck me as over the top.

It also seemed just lazy to give it as a squad upgrade rather than a model upgrade. Tsons at least pay per model. GK got it at a discount the larger the squad was.

Now it will really screw GK not having all that 24" Str5 move and shoot, shooting kind of defined them playstylewise.

Not everyone having access to psychic poop

the psy ammo needs some sort a psychic powers (would of been cool as an upgrade to a lib or something)

 Exergy wrote:
That the Salvo rule sucks, well that isnt a problem for GK that is a problem for everything that has salvo except relentless vehicles. I really expected 7th to change salvo and soul blaze into better mechanics.

And every single Terminator (which they get ridiculously cheap) because they are also relentless

It only affects PAGK and I am personally fine with that.
If you want super cheap S7 shots, don't complain when you can only fire 2 at 12" instead of 4 at 24" when you move.

At least the Incinerator went from super costly to super cheap as a bit of a compromise - I still think its a pretty darn good weapon for DSing PAGKs (it already was last codex for DSing PAGKs, but so much costlier)

Kangodo wrote:

 Exergy wrote:
That the Salvo rule sucks, well that isnt a problem for GK that is a problem for everything that has salvo except relentless vehicles. I really expected 7th to change salvo and soul blaze into better mechanics.

And every single Terminator (which they get ridiculously cheap) because they are also relentless

It only affects PAGK and I am personally fine with that.
If you want super cheap S7 shots, don't complain when you can only fire 2 at 12" instead of 4 at 24" when you move.

However this does affect the effectiveness of the Purifiers, as they where a solid unit due to the fact they could take 4x Special Weapons per squad. However, the fact that there CC attacks base give them Soul Blaze definitely makes them a solid CC option other then our Terminators. Even then though, do you guys think Purifiers will be worth taking at all with this new book? And whats the word with Crowe? Is his Sword just a basic PW or does it even have a AP value for that matter? Saw on the scan from blood of kittens and his sword doesn't have anything special to it.

The Sword is nothing special and he's "just okay".
His ass-kicking comes into play when he fights a Challenge, where all his attacks are AP2 and he rerolls all his failed saves.

Purifiers can still take four if you field 10 of them.
But having Power Armour I think you'd be better off with Incinerators against Horde-armies.
In my opinion they seem to be an elite-squad dedicated for Blobs.
Then you could take Falchions on them for 4 attacks on the charge with perhaps a Hammer for big nasty stuff.

Five of those would scare the gak out of any blob, especially as all their shooting is AP4
They could kill around 13 of my Necron Warriors and they haven't even charged!

 Rommel44 wrote:

Kangodo wrote:

 Exergy wrote:
That the Salvo rule sucks, well that isnt a problem for GK that is a problem for everything that has salvo except relentless vehicles. I really expected 7th to change salvo and soul blaze into better mechanics.

And every single Terminator (which they get ridiculously cheap) because they are also relentless

It only affects PAGK and I am personally fine with that.
If you want super cheap S7 shots, don't complain when you can only fire 2 at 12" instead of 4 at 24" when you move.

However this does affect the effectiveness of the Purifiers, as they where a solid unit due to the fact they could take 4x Special Weapons per squad. However, the fact that there CC attacks base give them Soul Blaze definitely makes them a solid CC option other then our Terminators. Even then though, do you guys think Purifiers will be worth taking at all with this new book? And whats the word with Crowe? Is his Sword just a basic PW or does it even have a AP value for that matter? Saw on the scan from blood of kittens and his sword doesn't have anything special to it.

Crowe is weird, he is an all-star in challenges as he does 4 St6 AP2 attacks

against everyone else its just 3 Str6 AP- attacks.

 Rommel44 wrote:
However, the fact that there CC attacks base give them Soul Blaze definitely makes them a solid CC option other then our Terminators.

Just out of interest why do you think so highly of Soul Blaze?

Am I missing something it does that isn't listed in the special rules? A 50/50 chance to do d3 S4 AP5 hits doesn't scream massive boost to me.

 SilverDevilfish wrote:
Am I missing something it does that isn't listed in the special rules? A 50/50 chance to do d3 S4 AP5 hits doesn't scream massive boost to me.

per guy

 Sir Arun wrote:

 SilverDevilfish wrote:
Am I missing something it does that isn't listed in the special rules? A 50/50 chance to do d3 S4 AP5 hits doesn't scream massive boost to me.

per guy

Says per unit in my entry.

BRB wrote: At the end of each turn, roll a D6 for each unit with a Soul Blaze counter on it. On a 3 or less, the flames die out and the unit is no longer ablaze - remove your reminder counter. On a 4+, the unit takes D3 Strength 4 AP5 hits with the Ignores Cover special rule. These Wounds are Randomly Allocated. A unit cannot have more than one Soul Blaze counter on it at a time.

 SilverDevilfish wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:

 SilverDevilfish wrote:
Am I missing something it does that isn't listed in the special rules? A 50/50 chance to do d3 S4 AP5 hits doesn't scream massive boost to me.

per guy

Says per unit in my entry.

BRB wrote: At the end of each turn, roll a D6 for each unit with a Soul Blaze counter on it. On a 3 or less, the flames die out and the unit is no longer ablaze - remove your reminder counter. On a 4+, the unit takes D3 Strength 4 AP5 hits with the Ignores Cover special rule. These Wounds are Randomly Allocated. A unit cannot have more than one Soul Blaze counter on it at a time.

CSM can get it on virtually any unit's shooting, but again it rarely does anything.

So what is the cheapest way to get a comms relay (or something similar to that effect) into your list? With the new formation, having everything drop in on turn 1 seems to be of utmost importance but having to pay the additional 50pt aegis wall tax, that you won't ever use, seems to be too much.

Killermonkey wrote:
So what is the cheapest way to get a comms relay (or something similar to that effect) into your list? With the new formation, having everything drop in on turn 1 seems to be of utmost importance but having to pay the additional 50pt aegis wall tax, that you won't ever use, seems to be too much.

Park the Aegis Defense line around the nearest objective you intend to hold

The absolute butts cheapest is the ADL + coms

the second being the bunker.

The Aegis Defense Line may be the cheapest, but I prefer the Firestorm Redoubt, because it gives you Quad Icarus Lascannons which are pretty good Skyfire/Interceptor weapons. You can also give it improoved Ballistic Skill and a Void Shield. You can park an Objective Secured unit inside and place it within 3" of an Objective because they can hold it from inside the building.

omg, I'm fething dirty on Grey Knights and their new Psyk-Out Grenades. You can throw them now in the shooting phase, with the Psi-Shock rule - any unit hit by the grenade has a randomly selected Psyker model suffer Perils of the Warp.

Now when the Sisters digital codex was first released, they had a weapon called the Condemnor Boltgun which was a Combi-Bolter with rule called Psi-Shock. It too caused Perils of the Warp on a Psyker in a unit if the unit was hit by the attack. Then it got nerfed to only causing Perils on a Pysker that suffers an unsaved wound from the attack, which was a significant nerf.

I hope they update the Sistesr and Inquisition codices to match (should be no problem considering they are digital codices). Probably to much to hope though.

ForeverARookie wrote:
The Aegis Defense Line may be the cheapest, but I prefer the Firestorm Redoubt, because it gives you Quad Icarus Lascannons which are pretty good Skyfire/Interceptor weapons. You can also give it improoved Ballistic Skill and a Void Shield. You can park an Objective Secured unit inside and place it within 3" of an Objective because they can hold it from inside the building.

Yeah but that is a lot more points than I'm looking at spending to simply manipulate my reserve roll for a better alpha strike. Also, if that is the only thing on my board and I don't get first turn, it will definitely go boom with everyone in it haha

GoonBandito wrote:
omg, I'm fething dirty on Grey Knights and their new Psyk-Out Grenades. You can throw them now in the shooting phase, with the Psi-Shock rule - any unit hit by the grenade has a randomly selected Psyker model suffer Perils of the Warp.

Now when the Sisters digital codex was first released, they had a weapon called the Condemnor Boltgun which was a Combi-Bolter with rule called Psi-Shock. It too caused Perils of the Warp on a Psyker in a unit if the unit was hit by the attack. Then it got nerfed to only causing Perils on a Pysker that suffers an unsaved wound from the attack, which was a significant nerf.

I hope they update the Sistesr and Inquisition codices to match (should be no problem considering they are digital codices). Probably to much to hope though.

Ya know, if they reverse that whole condemner boltgun thing or even the one in INQ id be very happy.

Then it entirely would be possible to deal with those annoying Nurgle DP (as most dont fly only jump 12")

Killermonkey wrote:

ForeverARookie wrote:
The Aegis Defense Line may be the cheapest, but I prefer the Firestorm Redoubt, because it gives you Quad Icarus Lascannons which are pretty good Skyfire/Interceptor weapons. You can also give it improoved Ballistic Skill and a Void Shield. You can park an Objective Secured unit inside and place it within 3" of an Objective because they can hold it from inside the building.

Yeah but that is a lot more points than I'm looking at spending to simply manipulate my reserve roll for a better alpha strike. Also, if that is the only thing on my board and I don't get first turn, it will definitely go boom with everyone in it haha

It's not just manipulating reserve rolls. This Armor Value 14 medium building comes standard (200 pts) with a Firepoint that 6 models can fire out of and 2 Quad Icarus Lascannons that cannot be targeted separately from the building.

Quad Icarus Lascannon: BS2 Range: 72" S: 9 AP: 2 Heavy 2, Twin-linked, Skyfire, Interceptor
Each shot has a 55.6% chance of hitting a Flier or skimmer, 30.6% chance of hitting anything else, and you have 4 shots. So you have a fair statistical chance of bringing down at least two fliers or skimmers.

With the Comms Relay it's only 220 points.

It should survive whatever he can throw at it turn 1 (assuming the worst-case scenario of your opponent going first). Even if he manages to destroy it, embarked PAGK will mostly survive and can disembark behind the building where the Relay and preferably an objective are located. Remember that the unit can hold both from inside the building to guarantee those turn 1 Deepstrikes, and the enemy can't shoot at your unit if the building is blocking line of sight to them.

 Exergy wrote:

 SilverDevilfish wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:

 SilverDevilfish wrote:
Am I missing something it does that isn't listed in the special rules? A 50/50 chance to do d3 S4 AP5 hits doesn't scream massive boost to me.

per guy

Says per unit in my entry.

BRB wrote: At the end of each turn, roll a D6 for each unit with a Soul Blaze counter on it. On a 3 or less, the flames die out and the unit is no longer ablaze - remove your reminder counter. On a 4+, the unit takes D3 Strength 4 AP5 hits with the Ignores Cover special rule. These Wounds are Randomly Allocated. A unit cannot have more than one Soul Blaze counter on it at a time.

CSM can get it on virtually any unit's shooting, but again it rarely does anything.

It's a 5 point upgrade for vehicles and still Nobody takes it because it's functionally useless.

 Sir Arun wrote:
At least the Incinerator went from super costly to super cheap as a bit of a compromise - I still think its a pretty darn good weapon for DSing PAGKs (it already was last codex for DSing PAGKs, but so much costlier)

DSing and using the incinerators requires precision.
The special rule of DSing in turn 1, where the units can run and shoot, will help a lot if the unit scatters.

Agree with you on that, however with it being confirmed that there is only the one formation in the book, a buddy of mine asked me if the GK's will get a supplement book like the other armies. Not sure if we will, but I can honestly getting one where we can run Purifiers as troops or maybe something similar to what the Space Wolves got with there supplement.

 Exergy wrote:
If the rumors of Psybolt being gone are true, I for one am happy.

It made no sense. Sure you could put psy into bullets and make them better but then why wouldnt every marine do it. Why wouldnt CSM do it. (alright so Tsons do it) but really, it just always struck me as over the top.

If every single bullet needs to be enchanted, it's hardly surprising that the company librarian don't want to sit and enchant every bullet in a space marine company like some automaton. He has better things to do.
It could however easily be something the grey knights did themselves to their own bullets in preparation while flying to a planet they were about to strike, each Grey Knight being a psyker in his own right.

Not to mention the fact that this may be a jealously guarded secret by the Grey Knights.

Doesn't exactly take a lot to explain it.

Well, let's see. 5th edition codex was $33.

This codex is literally half the size and options for almost twice as much.

This should sum it up

 Purifier wrote:

 Exergy wrote:
If the rumors of Psybolt being gone are true, I for one am happy.

It made no sense. Sure you could put psy into bullets and make them better but then why wouldnt every marine do it. Why wouldnt CSM do it. (alright so Tsons do it) but really, it just always struck me as over the top.

If every single bullet needs to be enchanted, it's hardly surprising that the company librarian don't want to sit and enchant every bullet in a space marine company like some automaton. He has better things to do.
It could however easily be something the grey knights did themselves to their own bullets in preparation while flying to a planet they were about to strike, each Grey Knight being a psyker in his own right.

Not to mention the fact that this may be a jealously guarded secret by the Grey Knights.

Doesn't exactly take a lot to explain it.

It's also been in since the GK have been made too, it's surprising to see it gone, it originally was a hard counter to Daemons (Ignore Inv save), then made it stronger (Which makes some sense), but removing them cuts something that made GK GK.

 Purifier wrote:

 Exergy wrote:
If the rumors of Psybolt being gone are true, I for one am happy.

It made no sense. Sure you could put psy into bullets and make them better but then why wouldnt every marine do it. Why wouldnt CSM do it. (alright so Tsons do it) but really, it just always struck me as over the top.

If every single bullet needs to be enchanted, it's hardly surprising that the company librarian don't want to sit and enchant every bullet in a space marine company like some automaton. He has better things to do.
It could however easily be something the grey knights did themselves to their own bullets in preparation while flying to a planet they were about to strike, each Grey Knight being a psyker in his own right.

Not to mention the fact that this may be a jealously guarded secret by the Grey Knights.

Doesn't exactly take a lot to explain it.

Negative on both accounts. Psybolt ammunition was imbued with psychic force but to hold that charge and to make it especially lethal to daemons, each bolt had santified in it from a devote follower of the Imperial creed so literally there were Inquisitorial agents rounding up devote folowers and sacrificing them to make a psybolt. The Grey Knights never made them at all, only fired them. That is also why Chaos never used them, it is imbued with a psychic force that is the antithesis of Chaos so Chaos agents can't handle them let alone make them. The whole process is described in the Grey Knights omni-bus by Ben Counter.

 Sigvatr wrote:
About the "GK lose so many units! Gawd!" argument:

How many of "all" those units have GK players regularly fielded?

Exactly.

Yes. Because removing units is better than just balancing them. This is great logic. If they are going to charge more, the least they could do is put in the effort to fix things not remove them.

 Envihon wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

 Exergy wrote:
If the rumors of Psybolt being gone are true, I for one am happy.

It made no sense. Sure you could put psy into bullets and make them better but then why wouldnt every marine do it. Why wouldnt CSM do it. (alright so Tsons do it) but really, it just always struck me as over the top.

If every single bullet needs to be enchanted, it's hardly surprising that the company librarian don't want to sit and enchant every bullet in a space marine company like some automaton. He has better things to do.
It could however easily be something the grey knights did themselves to their own bullets in preparation while flying to a planet they were about to strike, each Grey Knight being a psyker in his own right.

Not to mention the fact that this may be a jealously guarded secret by the Grey Knights.

Doesn't exactly take a lot to explain it.

Negative on both accounts. Psybolt ammunition was imbued with psychic force but to hold that charge and to make it especially lethal to daemons, each bolt had santified in it from a devote follower of the Imperial creed so literally there were Inquisitorial agents rounding up devote folowers and sacrificing them to make a psybolt. The Grey Knights never made them at all, only fired them. That is also why Chaos never used them, it is imbued with a psychic force that is the antithesis of Chaos so Chaos agents can't handle them let alone make them. The whole process is described in the Grey Knights omni-bus by Ben Counter.

First off, the account in the 5th edition codex has this.

Psybolts are silver-tipped, psychically charged shells, used in storm bolters and similar weapons. When fired, each bolt becomes imbued with a portion of a Grey Knight's innate psychic power, causing it to glow with an eerie blue light, and strike home with significantly greater force than an ordinary round of its type. Psybolts are difficult to produce and incredibly wearing on a gun's inner mechanisms, but provide the Grey Knights with a relatively straightforward method of enhancing the power of standard-pattern weaponry, without resorting to extensive retrofitting of the weapon itself.

And even in the Daemonhunter book, they were called "Psychically Impregnated psycannon bolts" and there was nothing mentioned of sacrificing a follower for every bolt in the book at all.

Don't always take Novels for fact, while it may be quite interesting it's pretty odd considering the things sanctified to murder daemons without murdering martyrs. though if true it'd make for some interesting conversions with sacrificed Sisters of Battle.

Sigh... more buffs for the hideous dread knight. Still not going to by one.

DreadKnights are AMAZING!! I hope they get buffed to Son Goku levels. I have 4 of them personally, and they're just fun!

There's nothing like shunting 30" So you can slap something in the face with your MurderBoner.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Okay. I just found the review site and read about Dreadknights.. I am so happy.

They ruined THE ENTIRE MAGIC SYSTEM (I HATE WFB). They ruined my Space Wolves rune priests. They took away Sly Marbo and changed the name to some garbage I refuse to acknowledge (IG for life bro). But at least they pimped my dreads.