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2014/08/18 03:18:32
Subject: A question of dire importance.... One that will trip us all up....
Okay I have had a discussion with one of my friends for six weeks about this.
It is a discussion of who is right... .AND WHO IS WRONG.
Okay ready?
This is largely theoritical and all based on supposing and thinking outside the box!
Now whats the question?
Before we get there let me get this straight this question is merely for fun and should not be taken at all seriously I am just curious on who likes who.... And who would think who would win...
Who would win in a fight.... A Caveman or an Astronaut and weapons are to be determined.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/08/18 03:24:16
Subject: A question of dire importance.... One that will trip us all up....
Cave Man. After living a life of survival, using brains and brawn to hunt and kill those that threaten his existence along with knowledge of the wilderness and a non reliance on technology would give him an edge.
Of course, some of that is weapons pending.
2014/08/18 03:44:51
Subject: A question of dire importance.... One that will trip us all up....
Swastakowey wrote: Cave Man. After living a life of survival, using brains and brawn to hunt and kill those that threaten his existence along with knowledge of the wilderness and a non reliance on technology would give him an edge.
Of course, some of that is weapons pending.
The weapons are there to make the fight balanced.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/08/18 03:47:25
Subject: A question of dire importance.... One that will trip us all up....
Even without weapons, sure the caveman has been hunting and surviving without technology their whole life, but the physical fitness requirements to become an astronaut are ridiculous, combined with the fact that he has probably always had food on the table so to speak, would give astronaut the edge. Add on top of that many astronauts (especially early ones) were in the Air Force, they would have had some basic hth combat training.
Adding weapons just makes it more lopsided in the astronaut's favour.
Horst wrote:This is how trolling happens. A few cheeky posts are made. Then they get more insulting. Eventually, we revert to our primal animal state, hurling feces at each other while shreeking with glee.
2014/08/18 03:56:37
Subject: A question of dire importance.... One that will trip us all up....
focusedfire wrote: Nature had a very selective process as to who would become a caveman while any idiot with more money than sense can be an astronaut.
Vote goes to caveman.
Also, wasn't this question sort of answered in Planet of the Apes(Original Heston one, not the crappy cgi one).
Later,
ff
actually its a reference to....
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/08/18 04:39:02
Subject: A question of dire importance.... One that will trip us all up....
focusedfire wrote: Nature had a very selective process as to who would become a caveman while any idiot with more money than sense can be an astronaut.
Vote goes to caveman.
Also, wasn't this question sort of answered in Planet of the Apes(Original Heston one, not the crappy cgi one).
Later,
ff
actually its a reference to....
Yes, but seeing as Heston's Apes movies came first, the writers of Angel could be viewed as possibly referencing those earlier works.
Honestly though, I had forgotten about that scene.
Later,
ff
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/18 05:42:47
Officially elevated by St. God of Yams to the rank of Scholar of the Church of the Children of the Eternal Turtle Pie at 11:42:36 PM 05/01/09
If they are too stupid to live, why make them?
In the immortal words of Socrates, I drank what??!
Tau-*****points(You really don't want to know)
2014/08/18 06:11:27
Subject: Re:A question of dire importance.... One that will trip us all up....
Gotta throw my vote in with the Cavemen; they live in MUCH harsher conditions, and with fewer modern day commodities they have to live a lot tougher. Astronauts sleep on a bed, Cavemen sleep on the ground.
I've never feared Death or Dying. I've only feared never Trying.
2014/08/18 07:10:04
Subject: A question of dire importance.... One that will trip us all up....
Slarg232 wrote: Gotta throw my vote in with the Cavemen; they live in MUCH harsher conditions, and with fewer modern day commodities they have to live a lot tougher. Astronauts sleep on a bed, Cavemen sleep on the ground.
Poor Somalian villagers live a much harsher life than my Krav Maga instructor, so in a hand-to-hand combat, the scrawny, suffering, malnourished guy should win.
Astronaut without much difficulty. Man beat animals that were faster, stronger and tougher than us by virtue of being smarter. An astronaut would have much better conditioning than a caveman in addition to being vastly more intelligent.
and... contrary to popular belief, living a gakky malnourished actually does pretty much zero to make you a better fighter. it just makes you... hungry and underdeveloped. lol
2014/08/18 08:32:42
Subject: Re:A question of dire importance.... One that will trip us all up....
You ever seen and talked to poor people? I don't mean first world poor, but real, honest to god poverty outside of the first world? Malnutrition, untreated disease and illness, well it doesn't make for a 6ft tall ubermensch. Well cavemen had it worse than that. Living hand to mouth with no medical knowledge or resources...
On the other hand you have people raised from birth on high protein diets, educated from childhood to make the most of their brains, and then from all those people we select a rare handful who are the most athletic and most intelligent to send in to space.
There's always loads of scope for variation at the individual level (more on the cavemen side than the astronaut side, of course), but assuming a blind test you have to back the astronaut.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2014/08/18 08:38:14
Subject: A question of dire importance.... One that will trip us all up....
But on the other hand, you have a person who kills things, every day. It's just something that they do. There are no rules, no fair play. Just kill the other thing as hard as you can. Hesitation means starving to death. I wouldn't equate a caveman to a modern poor person, that is worlds of difference.
We are talking about a fight, not exploration... thinking, intelligence, these make you hesitate. Then someone puts a thumb through your eye and stabs you in the neck.
2014/08/18 08:55:16
Subject: Re:A question of dire importance.... One that will trip us all up....
If I remember correctly most hunter-gatherer societies only work like 4-8 hours a day, plus they had time to produce art so I don't think they're as unhealthy as some people might think they are.
2014/08/18 10:00:45
Subject: A question of dire importance.... One that will trip us all up....
Most astronauts are military personnel with a high level of fitness and hand to hand combat training.
Assuming the fight is basically a straight up brawl, rather than a James T Kirk versus the Gorn Captain scenario, the astronaut would have the advantage.
Caveman the toughness and willingness to not only survive, but to thrive in his own environment, not to mention the weapons available such as small knives, axes, spear's etc would make him excell in close combat, even without his weapons
2014/08/18 12:00:12
Subject: A question of dire importance.... One that will trip us all up....
And that is why you hear people yelling FOR THE EMPEROR rather than FOR LOGICAL AND QUANTIFIABLE BASED DECISIONS FOR THE BETTERMENT OF THE MAJORITY!
Phototoxin wrote:Kids go in , they waste tonnes of money on marnus calgar and his landraider, the slaneshi-like GW revel at this lust and short term profit margin pleasure. Meanwhile father time and cunning lord tzeentch whisper 'our games are better AND cheaper' and then players leave for mantic and warmahordes.
daveNYC wrote:The Craftworld guys, who are such stick-in-the-muds that they manage to make the Ultramarines look like an Ibiza nightclub that spiked its Red Bull with LSD.
2014/08/18 23:28:20
Subject: A question of dire importance.... One that will trip us all up....
If they were toe to toe, no weapons, no "armour", then I'd say the caveman, because he's probably used to fighting like that - Plus he doesn't have any notion of fair play, or chivalry, or whatever - he will bite, and claw at eyes, and tear off parts of the anatomy without hesitating.
I'm not saying an astronaut wouldn't fight dirty, but he might be a fraction slower to do so. Besides, astronauts tend to be trained in things that are not really angled towards fighting cavemen, I would think - I know they're ex-military, but usually air force, right? I'm no expert, but do pilots need or have a lot of close-quarters unarmed training?
My money's on the chap with the brow ridge and the animal furs, and I would kickstarter the hell out of a TV show based on this premise
Bromsy wrote: I wouldn't equate a caveman to a modern poor person, that is worlds of difference.
True, that caveman has even poorer nutrition and even less access to medical aid.
I mean, think about that dangerous life you're happy to claim the caveman lived. Think about the life of hunting that helped that caveman kill without hesitating - that life by its nature will mean accidents and mishaps leading to broken bones. And if the caveman is used to fighting other human beings (the only way the fight without flinching claim can make sense) then he's only going to have more injuries. Those breaks are never treated, never reset, they're just ignored until they stop hurting as much as they used to.
And so that's what you're talking about, a guy who's lived on a subsistence diet of mostly grains and nuts with a tiny amount of protein, who's got all manner of untreated wounds and injuries, and I'm just gonna straight out say it doesn't matter how unflinchingly tough that man is, the odds are he's way out of his weight division.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/19 00:16:50
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2014/08/19 06:47:00
Subject: A question of dire importance.... One that will trip us all up....
Bromsy wrote: I wouldn't equate a caveman to a modern poor person, that is worlds of difference.
True, that caveman has even poorer nutrition and even less access to medical aid.
I mean, think about that dangerous life you're happy to claim the caveman lived. Think about the life of hunting that helped that caveman kill without hesitating - that life by its nature will mean accidents and mishaps leading to broken bones. And if the caveman is used to fighting other human beings (the only way the fight without flinching claim can make sense) then he's only going to have more injuries. Those breaks are never treated, never reset, they're just ignored until they stop hurting as much as they used to.
And so that's what you're talking about, a guy who's lived on a subsistence diet of mostly grains and nuts with a tiny amount of protein, who's got all manner of untreated wounds and injuries, and I'm just gonna straight out say it doesn't matter how unflinchingly tough that man is, the odds are he's way out of his weight division.
So... this is all theoretical - got that? So we aren't talking old "I've been crippled by my life experiences so I am easily dispatched by anyone or anything" cave-fellow. There was at least one caveman who lived to his prime uninjured. That is who is going up against your prospective astronaut... otherwise I'd just use the argument that my caveman is going up against the entire Challenger crew. So, auto win. Yeah, my caveman doesn't have the nutritional intake of a modern man. He's short. Ghurkas are short. I guess that shows what terrible fighters they are. I guess no one respects their combat prowess because *gasp* they aren't tall.
2014/08/19 06:56:27
Subject: A question of dire importance.... One that will trip us all up....
Kilkrazy wrote: Most astronauts are military personnel with a high level of fitness and hand to hand combat training.
Assuming the fight is basically a straight up brawl, rather than a James T Kirk versus the Gorn Captain scenario, the astronaut would have the advantage.
You never fought in a spacesuit before haven't you, too clumsy, the Caveman ignores the rules of engagement and clobbers the astronaut to dead.
Buff the vampire slayer one of the best series ever! (but why is it mirrored?)
Bromsy wrote: So... this is all theoretical - got that? So we aren't talking old "I've been crippled by my life experiences so I am easily dispatched by anyone or anything" cave-fellow. There was at least one caveman who lived to his prime uninjured.
What? Why would you assume that it must be the healthiest, strongest caveman who ever lived? That's you just making gak up. The sensible interpretation is the average caveman, the run of the mill, average, the median. And if we're going to assume the caveman is a super-hardman tough guy who kills without flinching because that's the only life he's ever known... well then we also have to accept with that comes injuries and broken bones that were healed with the medical knowledge available at the time - none.
Yeah, my caveman doesn't have the nutritional intake of a modern man. He's short. Ghurkas are short. I guess that shows what terrible fighters they are. I guess no one respects their combat prowess because *gasp* they aren't tall.
Uh, nutritional intake doesn't just affect height but also muscle development and intelligence.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Jehan-reznor wrote: You never fought in a spacesuit before haven't you, too clumsy, the Caveman ignores the rules of engagement and clobbers the astronaut to dead.
Why are you assuming the astronaut is in his spacesuit? I mean, if there's a breathable atmosphere he takes it off, and if there isn't a breathable atmosphere the caveman dies.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/19 08:07:48
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
Officially elevated by St. God of Yams to the rank of Scholar of the Church of the Children of the Eternal Turtle Pie at 11:42:36 PM 05/01/09 
