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Made in us
Nasty Nob




Cary, NC

 Las wrote:
It's funny, a completely updated edition has been something the community has been asking for for years and now that it's almost a reality people are freaking out.


If GW completely updated the edition by dropping every faction that didn't have a new codex, people would also freak out, despite wanting a completely updated edition.

Wanting a completely updated edition wasn't the ONLY thing that people wanted, y'know.

 
   
Made in au
Hacking Proxy Mk.1





Australia

 adamsouza wrote:
My guess is they will focus on Fantasy in 2015 with the occasional new model and Dataslate for 40K.

Also, is there not a new Hobbit Sequel out next year ? I imagine White Drawf will be flooded with Hobbit Releases.


Hobbit is dead.
There was like.. one wave of releases as the last movie came out an nothing else for like the last 9-10 months.

 Fafnir wrote:
Oh, I certainly vote with my dollar, but the problem is that that is not enough. The problem with the 'vote with your dollar' response is that it doesn't take into account why we're not buying the product. I want to enjoy 40k enough to buy back in. It was my introduction to traditional games, and there was a time when I enjoyed it very much. I want to buy 40k, but Gamesworkshop is doing their very best to push me away, and simply not buying their product won't tell them that.
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






I'm normally opposed to the idea of a Big Marine book with merged in Wolves, BA, and DA becausse size constraints, but if it was like the new Nagash book- a 300 page fluff and art book, and a 96 page rules book, I bet it would be possible.
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

 jonolikespie wrote:
 adamsouza wrote:
My guess is they will focus on Fantasy in 2015 with the occasional new model and Dataslate for 40K.

Also, is there not a new Hobbit Sequel out next year ? I imagine White Drawf will be flooded with Hobbit Releases.


Hobbit is dead.
There was like.. one wave of releases as the last movie came out an nothing else for like the last 9-10 months.

That happens when a two movie series is expanded to three at the last moment, and GW wasn't the only company affected. With just the teaser trailer so far, there should be plenty of releases for The Hobbit this year.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in au
Hacking Proxy Mk.1





Australia

 Ghaz wrote:
 jonolikespie wrote:
 adamsouza wrote:
My guess is they will focus on Fantasy in 2015 with the occasional new model and Dataslate for 40K.

Also, is there not a new Hobbit Sequel out next year ? I imagine White Drawf will be flooded with Hobbit Releases.


Hobbit is dead.
There was like.. one wave of releases as the last movie came out an nothing else for like the last 9-10 months.

That happens when a two movie series is expanded to three at the last moment, and GW wasn't the only company affected. With just the teaser trailer so far, there should be plenty of releases for The Hobbit this year.

It's possible that's all it was but we also heard something about there being another starter set ready to go when New Line said no because Smaug wasn't properly to scale.
We also heard Kirby talk about how their 3 game systems would soon become 2 in the yearly report.

I don't think Hobbit will be around much longer, nor will GW invest more than they absolutely have to in the near future.

 Fafnir wrote:
Oh, I certainly vote with my dollar, but the problem is that that is not enough. The problem with the 'vote with your dollar' response is that it doesn't take into account why we're not buying the product. I want to enjoy 40k enough to buy back in. It was my introduction to traditional games, and there was a time when I enjoyed it very much. I want to buy 40k, but Gamesworkshop is doing their very best to push me away, and simply not buying their product won't tell them that.
 
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

GW wasn't the only company affected. IIRC, Lego releases for the Desolation of Smaug were either sparse or didn't make sense in regards to what was seen in the movie.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
Gargantuan Gargant





New Bedford, MA USA

Personally, I would prefer they dropped hobbit and focused on 40k and Fantasy.

Having both Hobbit and Fantasy seemed redundant. Incompatible rules and different scales always irked me.I wouldn't even have minded the different rules if the LOTR/Hobbit models were the same scale.

   
Made in us
Hacking Proxy Mk.1





Australia

 adamsouza wrote:
Personally, I would prefer they dropped hobbit and focused on 40k and Fantasy.

Having both Hobbit and Fantasy seemed redundant. Incompatible rules and different scales always irked me.I wouldn't even have minded the different rules if the LOTR/Hobbit models were the same scale.

I won't argue with any of that but bringing this back around to the topic at hand with only 2 game systems GW doesn't have anything else to push to keep profitable nor do they have a fallback if one or both of their systems fail.

 Fafnir wrote:
Oh, I certainly vote with my dollar, but the problem is that that is not enough. The problem with the 'vote with your dollar' response is that it doesn't take into account why we're not buying the product. I want to enjoy 40k enough to buy back in. It was my introduction to traditional games, and there was a time when I enjoyed it very much. I want to buy 40k, but Gamesworkshop is doing their very best to push me away, and simply not buying their product won't tell them that.
 
   
Made in us
Gargantuan Gargant





New Bedford, MA USA

2 games that have survived 20-25 years

They are now happily licensing out the IP to FFG and video game developers.

Why waste your own money investing in a game that may fail when someone else will do it and cut you in for a percentage ?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/21 01:30:30


   
Made in us
Poxed Plague Monk




DC

Actually make an army for the Demiurg. Please. Please....
   
Made in us
Hacking Proxy Mk.1





Australia

Surviving 25 years means nothing, the hobby has been exploding recently and GWs competition are seeing massive growth while 40k and Fantasy seem to be shrinking at an unhealthy and increasing rate. GW should be diversifyiny their range, not doubling down and assuming that something that worked in the distant past will continue to work.

 Fafnir wrote:
Oh, I certainly vote with my dollar, but the problem is that that is not enough. The problem with the 'vote with your dollar' response is that it doesn't take into account why we're not buying the product. I want to enjoy 40k enough to buy back in. It was my introduction to traditional games, and there was a time when I enjoyed it very much. I want to buy 40k, but Gamesworkshop is doing their very best to push me away, and simply not buying their product won't tell them that.
 
   
Made in us
Gargantuan Gargant





New Bedford, MA USA

 jonolikespie wrote:
Surviving 25 years means nothing, the hobby has been exploding recently and GWs competition are seeing massive growth while 40k and Fantasy seem to be shrinking at an unhealthy and increasing rate.


Which games and manufacturers are you alluding to ?

Mantic Dread Ball ? I backed the kickstarter and own EVERYTHING, and I've still spent more on single 40K armies

Mantic Deadzone ? Same story

Warmachine ? Most people I know who play Warmahine play 40K as well, guess which one gets more of their cash ?

Inifinity ? Honestly never seen a game played

GW should be diversifyiny their range, not doubling down and assuming that something that worked in the distant past will continue to work.


They are licensing their range. The New 40K MMO probably makes them more money than the next Gorkamorka would.

   
Made in us
Zealous Sin-Eater



Chico, CA

 adamsouza wrote:
 jonolikespie wrote:
Surviving 25 years means nothing, the hobby has been exploding recently and GWs competition are seeing massive growth while 40k and Fantasy seem to be shrinking at an unhealthy and increasing rate.


Which games and manufacturers are you alluding to ?

Mantic Dread Ball ? I backed the kickstarter and own EVERYTHING, and I've still spent more on single 40K armies

Mantic Deadzone ? Same story

Warmachine ? Most people I know who play Warmahine play 40K as well, guess which one gets more of their cash ?

Inifinity ? Honestly never seen a game played



Good for you, but doesn't change the facts.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/21 02:29:57


Peter: As we all know, Christmas is that mystical time of year when the ghost of Jesus rises from the grave to feast on the flesh of the living! So we all sing Christmas Carols to lull him back to sleep.
Bob: Outrageous, How dare he say such blasphemy. I've got to do something.
Man #1: Bob, there's nothing you can do.
Bob: Well, I guess I'll just have to develop a sense of humor.  
   
Made in ca
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer





British Columbia

I've never actually seen someone play Dropzone Commander in person. Hawk Wargames should be bankrupt by the end of the week.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.


 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut






Toronto

Some data slates and warhammer fantasy battles probably.

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Made in au
Hacking Proxy Mk.1





Australia

 adamsouza wrote:
 jonolikespie wrote:
Surviving 25 years means nothing, the hobby has been exploding recently and GWs competition are seeing massive growth while 40k and Fantasy seem to be shrinking at an unhealthy and increasing rate.


Which games and manufacturers are you alluding to ?

Mantic Dread Ball ? I backed the kickstarter and own EVERYTHING, and I've still spent more on single 40K armies

Mantic Deadzone ? Same story

Warmachine ? Most people I know who play Warmahine play 40K as well, guess which one gets more of their cash ?

Inifinity ? Honestly never seen a game played

That is all anecdotal though. Mantic have said they have sold something like 4 times as much dreadball stuff since the kickstarter ended and Corvus Belli have shown us charts at Gengon showing something like 25%, 75%, 75% again, 14% and 24%* growth for the past few years. GW in the same time frame remained at or around the inflation line (effectively 0 growth) then suddenly tanked hard this last year.

What you see played in your area is mostly meaningless, because we KNOW that GW sales are way down across the board and we KNOW that other companies are expanding their ranges significantly and are showing real, sustainable growth.

 adamsouza wrote:
GW should be diversifyiny their range, not doubling down and assuming that something that worked in the distant past will continue to work.


They are licensing their range. The New 40K MMO probably makes them more money than the next Gorkamorka would.

That is actually a really good thing there, they need new revenue streams, but I'm worried it wont be enough since their royalties only went up from £1m to £1.4m. For reference 2011 and 2010 where £2.5m and £3m.


(*I'm iffy on those last two numbers, can't seem to find the pic but the back to back 75%s where shown off at last years and are solid)

 Fafnir wrote:
Oh, I certainly vote with my dollar, but the problem is that that is not enough. The problem with the 'vote with your dollar' response is that it doesn't take into account why we're not buying the product. I want to enjoy 40k enough to buy back in. It was my introduction to traditional games, and there was a time when I enjoyed it very much. I want to buy 40k, but Gamesworkshop is doing their very best to push me away, and simply not buying their product won't tell them that.
 
   
Made in us
Wraith






We get bits of hard data here in there. The main distributor of games for Australia posted on Facebook how hot Dystopian Wars 2.0 was that it was outselling 7E Warhammer 40k 6:1 (or was it 7:1?). So that either means very little Warhammer 40k is sold in Australia (shocker, we know this) or Dystopian Wars 2.0 is hot stuff.

A lot of other games are picking up steam. You can see it in major GTs that are all getting a significant chunk of "other games" instead of just being 40k only scenes. We're seeing huge upticks in growth of the smaller companies and we have financial folks with access to market analytics stating that gaming is growing in the double digits while GW games are in the double digits decline. We have seen this corroborated in that annual public report that ranks the "Top 5" war games, as well.

Games like X Wing, Attack Wing, Warmahordes, et al are all taking a significant chunk out of Warhammer 40k funds for many gamers these days.

Shine on, Kaldor Dayglow!
Not Ken Lobb

 
   
Made in mx
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan




Mexico

The problem is not 40k and Fantasy themselves, those 2 names have weight, story and a lot of fans. The problem is GW's unwillingness to balance their rules, hear their gaming community and do other sensible stuff like reducing their prices. Unless GW changes that they are boned.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/08/21 02:55:18


 
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

technically chaos space marines and necrons can be updated too. They are newer codices but theyre also either "5th edition" or "an experiment" as the excuse was for CSM being so ... random with their units' uses and strengths. While necrons dont need it theyre still a 5th ed book.

After that yea new dataslates, special mission and rule books, and supplements are going to be coming out in droves. Wouldnt doubt it if at some point each and every race has their own "imperial knight" type thing that isnt LoW and isnt part of a normal FoC, but allied in on its own or taken as an army like the knights.

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





Ghaz wrote:GW wasn't the only company affected. IIRC, Lego releases for the Desolation of Smaug were either sparse or didn't make sense in regards to what was seen in the movie.
GW killed The Hobbit more than anything, massively overpriced and the bare minimum range. There's actually a lot of The Hobbit models I like, but they cost a fething fortune. There is absolutely no way I can justify it.

The LOTR Mines of Moria boxed set was pretty much an impulse buy for me (I tend to never impulse buy things, but this was the closest I get to an impulse buy). It came with nice looking models that could be expanded in to a decent army for a low price. Great value is what sold it to me, and I then went on to buy a Rohan army to supplement my Moria goblins.

The Hobbit came out, the boxed set was no where near the "impulse buy" range, it was waaay over. GW shot themselves in the foot.

Then you also have the fact The Hobbit game has not been advertised at all while the LOTR game was somewhat.

adamsouza wrote:Personally, I would prefer they dropped hobbit and focused on 40k and Fantasy.

Having both Hobbit and Fantasy seemed redundant. Incompatible rules and different scales always irked me.I wouldn't even have minded the different rules if the LOTR/Hobbit models were the same scale.
I disagree on all points.

Firstly, they don't put any effort in to LOTR/Hobbit anyway, so it wouldn't give them any more time to focus on 40k and Fantasy if they dropped it. Secondly, IMO, they should focus on expanding to new games, not bloating 40k and Fantasy. IMO they need to focus on fixing the rules in 40k and Fantasy instead of milking them and start getting money from other games.

Secondly, no, having both LOTR and Fantasy was not redundant because they were different enough games to coexist. Also, yes, it could be annoying that the scales were different, but in the end this was a good thing IMO as the LOTR scale was a realistic scale which I much prefer.

adamsouza wrote:
 jonolikespie wrote:
Surviving 25 years means nothing, the hobby has been exploding recently and GWs competition are seeing massive growth while 40k and Fantasy seem to be shrinking at an unhealthy and increasing rate.


Which games and manufacturers are you alluding to ?

Mantic Dread Ball ? I backed the kickstarter and own EVERYTHING, and I've still spent more on single 40K armies

Mantic Deadzone ? Same story

Warmachine ? Most people I know who play Warmahine play 40K as well, guess which one gets more of their cash ?

Inifinity ? Honestly never seen a game played
Your anecdotal evidence is meaningless. Most people around here have completely quit GW games, the only place you still find people playing them is the GW store itself, and that's a shadow of what it used to be and is mostly teenagers playing after school. The FLGS up the road is thriving on Infinity, Malifaux, Flames of War, Warmahordes, X-wing and the plethora of FFG games. Barely anyone plays 40k anymore, even less play Fantasy.

GW should be diversifyiny their range, not doubling down and assuming that something that worked in the distant past will continue to work.


They are licensing their range. The New 40K MMO probably makes them more money than the next Gorkamorka would.
Most the money from making a successful video game goes to paying for advertising and wages of the developers, the next biggest chunk goes to the publisher I would think. I doubt GW get a hell of a lot from the license. Looking at some of their past reports, royalties peaked in about 2008-2009 (DOW2 being released Feb that year) and it only accounted for 4.3% of revenue. Most years it's 1-2.5% revenue.

That's assuming the MMO doesn't flop.

If GW themselves made a large royalty, I doubt anyone would make games for them. Video gaming is a cut-throat industrustry, the low end is full of cheap easy to make games that go nowhere and a few lucky ones that become popular. The high end is full of games that cost millions to make and if they don't sell millions they are a failure because they won't recoup advertising and development costs. Lets not forget that THQ, the publisher of GW games, went under. I could be wrong, but I don't think GW can make a lot of money out of selling their name.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/21 06:41:21


 
   
Made in us
Gargantuan Gargant





New Bedford, MA USA

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Your anecdotal evidence is meaningless. Most people around here have completely quit GW games, the only place you still find people playing them is the GW store itself, and that's a shadow of what it used to be and is mostly teenagers playing after school. The FLGS up the road is thriving on Infinity, Malifaux, Flames of War, Warmahordes, X-wing and the plethora of FFG games. Barely anyone plays 40k anymore, even less play Fantasy.


Your anecdotal evidence is meaningless.


   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





Indeed it is. The reason I gave my own anecdotal evidence was because saying "anecdotal evidence is meaningless" is in itself meaningless unless providing contradicting anecdotal evidence.. My point was that my anecdotal evidence contradicts your anecdotal evidence therefore neither can be taken seriously.

This is how a lot of science is done. Building up of agreeing anecdotal evidence leads to an a model of how things work, except when contradicting anecdotal evidence is presented and the model breaks down.

I'm not just going to say "your evidence is crap". I'm going to say "your evidence is crap, this is why".
   
Made in nl
Regular Dakkanaut




One one hand this sounds as an interesting observation.
It could be that 40k will be "complete" in the sense that everything that already exists is ready and there is time for something new. That would be VERY good thing.

On the other hand i am afraid that the "GW is about models, not rules" is a nice sounding statement, but not true.
I read it as a GW statement and it is being repeated.
But never in history did they (seem to) focus so much on making money on rules, not models. Not only by the price of the books, but also the invention of the concept of supplements (and their price) .

It's the first time since 40k history, and i started with the first book, The Rogue Trader, that i don't buy every book (or supplement).
Simply because i cannot afford to. I have to choose between rules and models, and I choose models.
   
Made in in
Longtime Dakkanaut






St. Albans

Wish listing, but I hope they release an 'Agents of the Imperium' faction with all of the cool stuff in the background that gets ignored model wise, e.g. Arbites, Custodes, Navigators etc. I would much prefer this to some dodgy new race. Surely they learnt this was a bad idea from the Tau mistake?

 
   
Made in nl
Regular Dakkanaut




And as far as anectdotes go...

The number of GW players has declined in The Netherlands as well, locally as well as, what i hear from other players in other regions, nationally. The wargame community as a whole is smaller too.
And the ones that play/keep GW, play/keep 40k and play/keep fewer armies, because of the cost.
Some old-scool GW players do play GW, but the unsupported games, like Blood Bowl, BFG, Epic, some even keep playing older editions of 40k (2nd).

Furthermore other games have taken GW's place.
X-Wing, Flames of War, Spartan Games, a bit of Infinity and Malifaux. It's all quite fragmented really...

I myself still have everything and have and play many of the other systems too. But the fragmantation of the wargame community sees to it that there are not many players for any game(system) really...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Additional - Wishlisting

Bring back "The Rogue Trader"
The freelancer, rogue, trader, scroundrel, "the organisation" etc.
ANY not-soldier.

In 1st edition the universe incorporated everything.
There was trade, there were farmers, there was industry, there were families (and yes... love! ;-)

But now "there is only war"

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/21 08:13:02


 
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





My wishlisting is that GW actually brings back specialist games and branches out to create new games instead of just pounding on 40k and WHFB until they are bloodied and bruised to within an inch of their life.

I don't really think it's going to happen as the ideal time for that has sort of passed. I also think with GW's current pricing scheme they've almost priced themselves out of creating new games.
   
Made in nl
Regular Dakkanaut




The return of Specialist Games would be great indeed.

And it does not have to cost too much, Epic or BFG can easily be made by designing 1 or 2 plastic sprues per army.

And sales would not be too much of a problem.
All players in my player-group still own Epic, even when they have sold most other armies and games.

But the question is if GW still wants to diversify.
They SAY they are about models, so even with a smal staff you could easily bring back the specialist games.
It could be they are only about 28mm models in the future.
   
Made in at
Slashing Veteran Sword Bretheren






 tyrannosaurus wrote:
Wish listing, but I hope they release an 'Agents of the Imperium' faction with all of the cool stuff in the background that gets ignored model wise, e.g. Arbites, Custodes, Navigators etc. I would much prefer this to some dodgy new race. Surely they learnt this was a bad idea from the Tau mistake?


bad? dont be a hater. tau are awesome

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 Ravenous D wrote:
40K is like a beloved grandparent that is slowly falling into dementia and the rest of the family is in denial about how bad it is.
squidhills wrote:
GW is scared of girls. Why do you think they have so much trouble sculpting attractive female models? Because girls have cooties and the staff at GW don't like looking at them for too long because it makes them feel funny in their naughty place.
 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





The Rock

ORicK wrote:
The return of Specialist Games would be great indeed.

And it does not have to cost too much, Epic or BFG can easily be made by designing 1 or 2 plastic sprues per army.

And sales would not be too much of a problem.
All players in my player-group still own Epic, even when they have sold most other armies and games.

But the question is if GW still wants to diversify.
They SAY they are about models, so even with a smal staff you could easily bring back the specialist games.
It could be they are only about 28mm models in the future.


I think the most you can hope for with Specialist Games is having them as video games. Not sure how they'd tackle Epic, but Space Hulk appears to be doing well and Mordheim looks set to do well also.
While GW is far from perfect, I think you should all just accept the fact that it's just asking the impossible to please everyone.

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Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





 angelofvengeance wrote:
but Space Hulk appears to be doing well
It does? When it came out it got mostly bad reviews and even fans of 40k and Space Hulk weren't buying it. I think most people who have it just picked it up when it was on sale for only a few dollars. That's better than nothing, but it's not going to be raking in much money like that.
   
 
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