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To be fair, Thompson wasn't trying to change video games "For the better", he was actively trying to shut them down.

Big difference.

Apropos...

 Alfndrate wrote:
Yes you do. We've already told you who Jack Thompson is...

Oh, that guy. He does not get death threat anymore, do he? I mean, the way you talked about it, he seemed history.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Apropos...

I actually scrolled down to the comments just to see if anyone was saying anything awful. Unfortunately the irony gods were not with me

I think the real question is, is if people are this stupid is it illegal to make a couple of accounts, pose as a woman in them, and try to reap the benefits of the Feminists Charitably?

That's what I wanna know. Wouldn't be my fault if they didn't do any research on it....

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Apropos...

Yes, it does happen to men too. Now compare how often it happens to the two genders.

 Slarg232 wrote:
I think the real question is, is if people are this stupid is it illegal to make a couple of accounts, pose as a woman in them, and try to reap the benefits of the Feminists Charitably?

That's what I wanna know. Wouldn't be my fault if they didn't do any research on it....

You haven't heard about the white guy who got elected to the city council pretending to be a black man?

I think that there is a lot of hate in general in the games industry. Especially between designer and player.

As players blame the designer for every nook and cranny that doesn't fit their expectations.

*cough*

*double cough*

 Ashiraya wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Apropos...

Yes, it does happen to men too. Now compare how often it happens to the two genders.

I guess the point of the article sailed right over your head.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
*cough*

*double cough*

 Ashiraya wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Apropos...

Yes, it does happen to men too. Now compare how often it happens to the two genders.

I guess the point of the article sailed right over your head.

Well, I have a problem with that article. It states that she receivers all this hate just because she's a woman. This is clearly not the case.

 Soladrin wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
*cough*

*double cough*

 Ashiraya wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Apropos...

Yes, it does happen to men too. Now compare how often it happens to the two genders.

I guess the point of the article sailed right over your head.

Well, I have a problem with that article. It states that she receivers all this hate just because she's a woman. This is clearly not the case.

It's kind of the inverse of that "girls suck at math" xkcd comic.

Reading hate directed at another man, "Wow, you were an donkey-cave to that person. You must really hate him."

Reading hate directed at a woman, "Wow, you're an donkey-cave to women. You must really hate them."

 H.B.M.C. wrote:


I guess the point of the article sailed right over your head.

What, that it should not be assumed to be misoginy, because it happened to a guy too?

 Ashiraya wrote:

What, that it should not be assumed to be misoginy, because it happened to a guy too?

If people are shown to do x, where x is "be hateful pieces of gak", wouldn't it stand to reason that you assume the cause is the same for all cases, until proven otherwise?

 daedalus wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

What, that it should not be assumed to be misoginy, because it happened to a guy too?

If people are shown to do x, where x is "be hateful pieces of gak", wouldn't it stand to reason that you assume the cause is the same for all cases, until proven otherwise?

Is x done equally to both genders?

 Mechanical Crow wrote:
More like not being ashamed for liking sex or feeling good about your body/flaunting it.

Where on earth did you get that Anita was being ashamed of liking sex or feeling good about her body?

 Slarg232 wrote:
I wouldn't call someone who says "You WILL create me a wife or I will kill everyone you love so you live just as lonely as I do" a nice guy.

Context, man, context.

 Kojiro wrote:
Here, try this one. It's probably the best response I've seen (don't forget part 2).

It kind of lost me.

 Kojiro wrote:
Well then here, please watch this.

Well, he sure does have a point about that Hitman thing.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 daedalus wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

What, that it should not be assumed to be misoginy, because it happened to a guy too?

If people are shown to do x, where x is "be hateful pieces of gak", wouldn't it stand to reason that you assume the cause is the same for all cases, until proven otherwise?

Is x done equally to both genders?

The nature of the internet being anonymous enough that this is allowed to even become an issue to begin with, I can't honestly say I have any way of telling without making assumptions. Could be some of the vicious hate is coming from men and women, directed at men and women, with men or women pretending to be one or the other on either side.

I know the internet is a disgusting hatebox though. I just don't feel like I can make further assumptions about it without being intellectually dishonest.

"When men get trolled it's called getting trolled. When women get trolled they call it 'getting sexually harrassed'." - Brad Wardell, Founder and CEO of Stardock Entertainment (quote found here).

It's a simplification to be sure, but it's interesting how it relates to the Zoe thing.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:


I guess the point of the article sailed right over your head.

What, that it should not be assumed to be misogyny, because it happened to a guy too?

Yes (and no).

For it to be misogyny, there has to be actual hatred of women on the part of the Troll. As I said before, to judge that, you need to know what is going on inside the Troll's head (and thats delving into Thought Crime btw). So effectively you cannot know for sure...unless you can show that the Troll in question has a track record of abusing women consistently, both online and in person / Real Life. No doubt some genuinely are misogynists, in that they do actually hate all women. But how can you know that they genuinely believe what they say, without knowing them personally?



Case in point. A man gets into an argument with a girl. She calls him a d***head. He calls her a b***h. You cannot infer from that, that they hate all men/women, and are abusing each other because they're a man/woman.

Trolling is about upsetting people. The object is simply to upset you, by saying whatever they think you are most sensitive to. For a self described Feminist who campaigns very publicly and noisily against misogyny and frequently complains of how shes being victimised, its pretty clear what buttons the Trolls [think they] need to press in order to upset her.

(In fact, I think shes actually delighted when she gets abused - it makes good media fodder and confirms her ideological beliefs).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 daedalus wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

What, that it should not be assumed to be misoginy, because it happened to a guy too?

If people are shown to do x, where x is "be hateful pieces of gak", wouldn't it stand to reason that you assume the cause is the same for all cases, until proven otherwise?

Is x done equally to both genders?

I've been abused in all manner of ways online . I've been called Gay and (ironically) homophobic , a pussy, racist, sexist, a Tory toff (again ironic, considering I'm on minimum wage), extremist, a right wing nazi, a left wing communist when I challenge right wing Nazis...

So yeah, men are no strangers to online abuse.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Slarg232 wrote:
I wouldn't call someone who says "You WILL create me a wife or I will kill everyone you love so you live just as lonely as I do" a nice guy.

Context, man, context.

Not to be TFG, but in the other thread you were refusing to accept my arguments of context, and now you're using it in support of your argument? Dude. Seriously?

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Slarg232 wrote:
I wouldn't call someone who says "You WILL create me a wife or I will kill everyone you love so you live just as lonely as I do" a nice guy.

Context, man, context.

Not to be TFG, but in the other thread you were refusing to accept my arguments of context, and now you're using it in support of your argument? Dude. Seriously?

Context, man, context.

Precisely!

For some stuff, context is relevant. For other stuff, it is not.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Precisely!

For some stuff, context is relevant. For other stuff, it is not.

I find your context lacking.

Anyway, I feel that at this point it's become more of a "weather the storm" kind of situation until we can actually get a clear of the real discussions going on here.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:


I've been abused in all manner of ways online . I've been called Gay and (ironically) homophobic , a pussy, racist, sexist, a Tory toff (again ironic, considering I'm on minimum wage), extremist, a right wing nazi, a left wing communist when I challenge right wing Nazis...

So yeah, men are no strangers to online abuse.

I never asserted that men are never harassed. I know you are, and I certainly don't like it.

My question was to which extent men are harassed compared to women.

I am seeing some pretty strong trends to the latter recieving more harassment, to which I ask, why could this be?

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:


I've been abused in all manner of ways online . I've been called Gay and (ironically) homophobic , a pussy, racist, sexist, a Tory toff (again ironic, considering I'm on minimum wage), extremist, a right wing nazi, a left wing communist when I challenge right wing Nazis...

So yeah, men are no strangers to online abuse.

I never asserted that men are never harassed. I know you are, and I certainly don't like it.

My question was to which extent men are harassed compared to women.

I am seeing some pretty strong trends to the latter recieving more harassment, to which I ask, why could this be?

considering the fact that I always start online games as a "female" and pretend to be female, explicitly because I know it means people will be:

A: more helpful
b: more patient
c: generally nicer to me.


im not sure the whole "women by default get treated worse online" is a real thing, as opposed to women just recieveing abuse online, and thinking they get it worse/more then men when they really do not.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:


I've been abused in all manner of ways online . I've been called Gay and (ironically) homophobic , a pussy, racist, sexist, a Tory toff (again ironic, considering I'm on minimum wage), extremist, a right wing nazi, a left wing communist when I challenge right wing Nazis...

So yeah, men are no strangers to online abuse.

I never asserted that men are never harassed. I know you are, and I certainly don't like it.

My question was to which extent men are harassed compared to women.

I am seeing some pretty strong trends to the latter recieving more harassment, to which I ask, why could this be?

I would argue that men get harassed more on a daily basis on the internet, the difference is, they get harassed by the same gender, men harassing men just doesn't garner shitstorms of this size. I've received plenty of death threats just for being good at certain games.

I've received even more for being bad

 Slarg232 wrote:
I've received even more for being bad

That too.

Go play some Counter strike: Global offensive. If you are awful, you should die, if you are good you are a hacker and should die.

 easysauce wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:


I've been abused in all manner of ways online . I've been called Gay and (ironically) homophobic , a pussy, racist, sexist, a Tory toff (again ironic, considering I'm on minimum wage), extremist, a right wing nazi, a left wing communist when I challenge right wing Nazis...

So yeah, men are no strangers to online abuse.

I never asserted that men are never harassed. I know you are, and I certainly don't like it.

My question was to which extent men are harassed compared to women.

I am seeing some pretty strong trends to the latter recieving more harassment, to which I ask, why could this be?

considering the fact that I always start online games as a "female" and pretend to be female, explicitly because I know it means people will be:

A: more helpful
b: more patient
c: generally nicer to me.


im not sure the whole "women by default get treated worse online" is a real thing, as opposed to women just recieveing abuse online, and thinking they get it worse/more then men when they really do not.

...This may be anecdotal, but my experiences are your polar opposites. Let's just say there's a reason I came to DakkaDakka as 'BrotherHaraldus', and it is not a coincidence that I usually stay off the voice chat in games.

Given money etc. by pretending to be a girl does seem worrying too. It's not like harassment, but stop a moment and think 'Why are these guys doing you favours?'

Am I the only guy/gal/frog in existence that will help out other players as much as possible and typically runs into people who do the same?

 Slarg232 wrote:
Am I the only guy/gal/frog in existence that will help out other players as much as possible and typically runs into people who do the same?

Probably. I do it in EVE to help out noobs, if for nothing else than the shock and awe it generates, but I've never heard of anyone else doing it.

Granted, that comes with the territory of playing a game that rewards sociopathy.