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 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
But that corruption seems to be quite small in scope. Can you give me a list of the companies involved? Is there one? Two? Have they made any game I heard about before this was blown out of proportion?


Also “blogger industry” made me cringe. What the hell? Blogger industry?

Considering we are talking about Polygon and Kotaku (Two of the bigger review/"community" sites), that means that EA, Activision, Square Enix, Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft, and even Double Fine or Behemoth are all rather swayed by them and their opinion; bad scores hurt sales, and all of them kind of require huge amounts of sales.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Never heard of him.

If you don't know anything about the topic at hand, the it's probably best not to make declarative statements when you don't know all (or any of) the facts. It would be better for you to just leave. Unless you wish to get educated that is, in which case stay in the thread and ask as many questions as you can.

Tbh at this point I think he's just feigning ignorance as a rhetorical tactic. Why counter your arguments and evidence, if he can claim to have never heard of the issues and people involved, and therefore dismiss them as insignificant?

I'm really hoping Phil Fish leaves the industry for good. That can only improve gaming on the whole.

Also lol at that article above from Polygon saying Anita Sarkeesian's vids have helped devs change how they approach women in gaming. She's made what? Five videos in two years? And they're not particularly well researched or detailed. That rebuttal vid floating around from thunder_foot is excellent at point out her usual pattern of setting up strawmen and other fallacies so she can knock them down. If not outright lying about the subject of question in the name of making more hash about it.

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
I'm really hoping Phil Fish leaves the industry for good. That can only improve gaming on the whole.

Also lol at that article above from Polygon saying Anita Sarkeesian's vids have helped devs change how they approach women in gaming. She's made what? Five videos in two years? And they're not particularly well researched or detailed. That rebuttal vid floating around from thunder_foot is excellent at point out her usual pattern of setting up strawmen and other fallacies so she can knock them down. If not outright lying about the subject of question in the name of making more hash about it.

See, it makes me kind of curious that Josh Wedon and Tim Schafer shared it; While Schafer doesn't sexify his female characters, he usually only has one or two per game anyway, with minor roles.

Wedon is in a TOTALLY different media, which makes it weird to me; yes, he writes strong females, but I don't really see him having a stake in this fight....

 Slarg232 wrote:

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
I'm really hoping Phil Fish leaves the industry for good. That can only improve gaming on the whole.

Also lol at that article above from Polygon saying Anita Sarkeesian's vids have helped devs change how they approach women in gaming. She's made what? Five videos in two years? And they're not particularly well researched or detailed. That rebuttal vid floating around from thunder_foot is excellent at point out her usual pattern of setting up strawmen and other fallacies so she can knock them down. If not outright lying about the subject of question in the name of making more hash about it.

See, it makes me kind of curious that Josh Wedon and Tim Schafer shared it; While Schafer doesn't sexify his female characters, he usually only has one or two per game anyway, with minor roles.

Wedon is in a TOTALLY different media, which makes it weird to me; yes, he writes strong females, but I don't really see him having a stake in this fight....

Probably because he really likes video games.

It was also shared by Extra Credits.

I mean her points are correct in someways, but I don't know if she is captalizing on the issues of womens in games being used as plot devices or not.

Or if she is making people aware of the tropes. Because they are common. Or she is comparing them and saying this is what they think about women. Which I think is the opposite of the truth.

But i find it really funny, the gender that dies most in games. Is Men. Very rarely are woman actually killed in games.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
If you don't know anything about the topic at hand, the it's probably best not to make declarative statements when you don't know all (or any of) the facts. It would be better for you to just leave. Unless you wish to get educated that is, in which case stay in the thread and ask as many questions as you can.

Enlighten me, then.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Tbh at this point I think he's just feigning ignorance as a rhetorical tactic.

Nope, genuinely would have had no clue about who this guy was.

 Slarg232 wrote:
Considering we are talking about Polygon and Kotaku (Two of the bigger review/"community" sites), that means that EA, Activision, Square Enix, Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft, and even Double Fine or Behemoth are all rather swayed by them and their opinion; bad scores hurt sales, and all of them kind of require huge amounts of sales.

So, do you think that Double Fine, or Blizzard, or some other big game company has paid the people of Polygon or Kotaku to get better review for their games? Proof of that would be quite huge revelations worthy of some controversy.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Never heard of him.

If you don't know anything about the topic at hand, the it's probably best not to make declarative statements when you don't know all (or any of) the facts. It would be better for you to just leave. Unless you wish to get educated that is, in which case stay in the thread and ask as many questions as you can.

Basically.

But I can say the industry right now is not very happy, my contacts are quite angry at the responses, and do not want to get involved at all.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Slarg232 wrote:
Considering we are talking about Polygon and Kotaku (Two of the bigger review/"community" sites), that means that EA, Activision, Square Enix, Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft, and even Double Fine or Behemoth are all rather swayed by them and their opinion; bad scores hurt sales, and all of them kind of require huge amounts of sales.

So, do you think that Double Fine, or Blizzard, or some other big game company has paid the people of Polygon or Kotaku to get better review for their games? Proof of that would be quite huge revelations worthy of some controversy.

Double Fine? I'm biased as hell, but I don't think so. If the laws of nature allowed it, I would have Tim's babies.

As for EA, Activision (Not Blizzard per say) or some of the others, like EA, and quite possibly EA, I wouldn't doubt it.

 Slarg232 wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Slarg232 wrote:
Considering we are talking about Polygon and Kotaku (Two of the bigger review/"community" sites), that means that EA, Activision, Square Enix, Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft, and even Double Fine or Behemoth are all rather swayed by them and their opinion; bad scores hurt sales, and all of them kind of require huge amounts of sales.

So, do you think that Double Fine, or Blizzard, or some other big game company has paid the people of Polygon or Kotaku to get better review for their games? Proof of that would be quite huge revelations worthy of some controversy.

Double Fine? I'm biased as hell, but I don't think so. If the laws of nature allowed it, I would have Tim's babies.

As for EA, Activision (Not Blizzard per say) or some of the others, like EA, and quite possibly EA, I wouldn't doubt it.

I wouldn't trust EA with anything.

Considering their marketing campagins and what they do for goodness sakes.

I would not be surprised either. Actually, it would be like wikileaks again, just proofs about things everybody has already guessed, but the simple confirmation would be worth some controversy.
If there is not even confirmation… what are we making a bit fuss out of?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I would not be surprised either. Actually, it would be like wikileaks again, just proofs about things everybody has already guessed, but the simple confirmation would be worth some controversy.
If there is not even confirmation… what are we making a bit fuss out of?

Thats not what we are making the big fuss about. Read Hat's discussion on it.

Its the many things in combination that have been happening.

I.E. the journalists attacking gamers as a whole for starters being my biggest beef.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I would not be surprised either. Actually, it would be like wikileaks again, just proofs about things everybody has already guessed, but the simple confirmation would be worth some controversy.
If there is not even confirmation… what are we making a bit fuss out of?

Nothing too aweful bad, just the people who are supposed to be telling us all about the hobby we love are in bed with people who are telling them everyone fething hates us.

Okay, so if I am understanding right, your problem is that your feeling are hurt by people (sorry, very influential people) saying means things against not you personally, but gamers are a group? Is that really your problem?
If so, I totally stand by my point: H.B.M.C. accusing people of caring for trivialities is the crow calling the raven black. Or the other way around, I never remember.
I really consider myself a gamer as much as you do, but I do not care about being called names by video game journalists, especially when the accusation are obviously false.

Honest question. Why is this such a bigreat deal? Someone fethed someone else for favors. For a game so few played

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Okay, so if I am understanding right, your problem is that your feeling are hurt by people (sorry, very influential people) saying means things against not you personally, but gamers are a group? Is that really your problem?
If so, I totally stand by my point: H.B.M.C. accusing people of caring for trivialities is the crow calling the raven black. Or the other way around, I never remember.
I really consider myself a gamer as much as you do, but I do not care about being called names by video game journalists, especially when the accusation are obviously false.

I think your misunderstanding me and delving into something that is not really my intent.

My point is that calling out the gaming community as childern and attacking them personally. On both fronts is stupid and childish. My problem is that they represent the game industry, they are representing our best interests, and are the 'journalists' in our community.

Like it or not they are.

They are only equivalent until someone actually makes it credible.

I think Totalbiscuit hit the nail on the head when he talked about it.

That is what I am suprised by, I am not angry about it. Just disappointed in the behavior. Like a Mother looking down on her son or daughter for not acting the way they were suppose to.

If you look at it logically should I really be disturbed by this? Of Course not. But it does show the immaturity in the entire game industry, and it shows the world that a small debacile like this could start something so problematic and cause a tear between the community and its representives. Causing friction and problems for the future.

This is a problem that should be addressed, and no amount of time will heal this wound until the information is upfront about it and say exactly why they are doing it. As of right now it seems kind of counter productive to do so. I mean the real controversies will come out to light, but there is so much going on, I have no idea what to think. I will just sit on the sidelines and wait for the storm to settle and pick up the pieces.

Honest question. Why is this such a bigreat deal? Someone fethed someone else for favors. For a game so few played

I think its the vocal minority that blew it out of proportion and 4chan that pushed the truck into the ocean for the sharks you see.

Its an issue that I was well aware, but it seems not many others were of. I had known about it for years.

I knew that it happened, but just didn't have any proof, And well we still don't.

We are only listening to the rumor mill. But the way people have been reacting such as the journalists are the bigger issues.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Honest question. Why is this such a bigreat deal? Someone fethed someone else for favors. For a game so few played

She's not so much the problem, she's just the catalyst;

Basically, it's come to light that a group of people has been influencing the Gaming Journalism.... community? to the point of two (at the least) of the biggest gaming websites have started insulting their entire consumer base, solely because of this group of people.

 Slarg232 wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Honest question. Why is this such a bigreat deal? Someone fethed someone else for favors. For a game so few played

She's not so much the problem, she's just the catalyst;

Basically, it's come to light that a group of people has been influencing the Gaming Journalism.... community? to the point of two (at the least) of the biggest gaming websites have started insulting their entire consumer base, solely because of this group of people.

And if you insult your customer base it builds this distrust between the customer and the industry.

i think that is my main problem with it. Is the insults from both sides.

It just seems like a non-issue to me.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
It just seems like a non-issue to me.

Its funny you say that. Because all the gamers make it out to be.

But I don't know what to think. Is it a non-issue?

I wouldn't call it that. It still is an issue. Its a distrust between the consumers and the industry.

That is a pretty damn big issue.

The problem that is the frame of mind. Ignoring it. You can't ignore something like that, it will come back to haunt us.

Also the Misogyny in the gaming population is also a pretty big topic. And boy am I mad at the community for that, and also the industry.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

So, do you think that Double Fine, or Blizzard, or some other big game company has paid the people of Polygon or Kotaku to get better review for their games? Proof of that would be quite huge revelations worthy of some controversy.

I'm getting a deja-vu vibe here.

GameSpot controversy[edit]
A 6/10 score by GameSpot was rumored to be responsible for the firing of editor Jeff Gerstmann.[15] The controversy arose due to heavy and diverse advertisement of the game on the site, leading to suspicion that Eidos Interactive was able to influence GameSpot editorial decisions. Eidos advertisements with GameSpot were substantial and included GameSpot website visitors being able to mix trailers, pick a variation of Kane & Lynch style theme, as well as traditional flash-based web ads. GameSpot denied that Eidos influenced the firing of Gerstmann at the time.[15][19] However, as of March 2012, the non-disclosure agreement that forced Gerstmann to withhold the details of his termination was nullified. Subsequently, Gerstmann claimed in an interview with GiantBomb.Com that the firing was indeed due to threats of Eidos pulling advertising revenue away from GameSpot as a result of Jeff's poor review score.[20]

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
It just seems like a non-issue to me.

Not trying to be hostile or anything, but what makes it seem like such a non-issue? I just want to see you're side of it, because I can't try to tell you how it's an issue if I don't know why you don't think it's one

Maybe its just what I see, but who fethed who for favors and kinds words on her game seems like a petty distraction from RL issues.

 daedalus wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

So, do you think that Double Fine, or Blizzard, or some other big game company has paid the people of Polygon or Kotaku to get better review for their games? Proof of that would be quite huge revelations worthy of some controversy.

I'm getting a deja-vu vibe here.

GameSpot controversy[edit]
A 6/10 score by GameSpot was rumored to be responsible for the firing of editor Jeff Gerstmann.[15] The controversy arose due to heavy and diverse advertisement of the game on the site, leading to suspicion that Eidos Interactive was able to influence GameSpot editorial decisions. Eidos advertisements with GameSpot were substantial and included GameSpot website visitors being able to mix trailers, pick a variation of Kane & Lynch style theme, as well as traditional flash-based web ads. GameSpot denied that Eidos influenced the firing of Gerstmann at the time.[15][19] However, as of March 2012, the non-disclosure agreement that forced Gerstmann to withhold the details of his termination was nullified. Subsequently, Gerstmann claimed in an interview with GiantBomb.Com that the firing was indeed due to threats of Eidos pulling advertising revenue away from GameSpot as a result of Jeff's poor review score.[20]

Hahaha.

You know that game was actually quite bad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Maybe its just what I see, but who fethed who for favors and kinds words on her game seems like a petty distraction from RL issues.

I don't think that discussion is lingering on that anymore.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Maybe its just what I see, but who fethed who for favors and kinds words on her game seems like a petty distraction from RL issues.

Which part of that is the non-issue? If one swapped out 'fethed' with 'offered money for' or if one swapped out 'game' with 'product', would it have more or less significance?

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Maybe its just what I see, but who fethed who for favors and kinds words on her game seems like a petty distraction from RL issues.

It's not an issue.

It became an issue when the person who fethed someone supposedly shut down a charity and then used her "Favors" to keep the publicity of her doing that on the down low.

I missed that part. If she did, that is horrible

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I missed that part. If she did, that is horrible

That and also causing multiple events to close.

I mean the part about who fethed who. I really don't care.

 Asherian Command wrote:
My problem is that they represent the game industry, they are representing our best interests, and are the 'journalists' in our community.

Like it or not they are.

I think any representative of actual game company making actual game are more representative of the game industry than journalists.

 Asherian Command wrote:
But it does show the immaturity in the entire game industry

No, just online game journalists.

I still think the representation of female character in most video game is a bigger deal than a bunch of articles calling gamers mean names, and one very specific case of alleged corruption for a bunch of game journalists. I also think it will have more influence on how video games and people who enjoy them are going to be perceived. Apparently, according H.B.M.C., that makes me nuts or something.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
My problem is that they represent the game industry, they are representing our best interests, and are the 'journalists' in our community.

Like it or not they are.

I think any representative of actual game company making actual game are more representative of the game industry than journalists.

 Asherian Command wrote:
But it does show the immaturity in the entire game industry

No, just online game journalists.

I still think the representation of female character in most video game is a bigger deal than a bunch of articles calling gamers mean names, and one very specific case of alleged corruption for a bunch of game journalists. I also think it will have more influence on how video games and people who enjoy them are going to be perceived. Apparently, according H.B.M.C., that makes me nuts or something.

I agree with that. The female bit is an ongoing issue that I think has been addressed. But there is alot of hatred towards women in the game industry. Some still perceive that gaming is an all boys club.

When it is not, now its mostly consisting of females.

hotsauceman1 wrote:I missed that part. If she did, that is horrible

Jury is still out, but it's not exactly been disproven yet.

But one thing lead to another, with the Journalists attacking the Gaming Community and the Gaming Community Not Putting Up With You're Poop, and more and more things are being uncovered daily.