Zoe Quinn and the five guys; corruption in video game journalism

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Asherian Command**

daedalus wrote:
Alfndrate wrote:

Was that the one where you needed the mint leaf to subdue the Genie at the end of the game? Yeah I forgot to grab that damn mint stuff and never beat the game :(

That was KQ VI. Also a masterpiece, but had a MALE PROTAGONIST

IV had the evil fairy queen who took some macguffin (forget what, it was a long time ago) from the good one, and when you tried to get it back, she tried to force you into marriage with her son, and so you fething murder her like a boss who gives zero gaks, and then return the thingy to the good queen, and then she gets down to business fixing things.

I think there is nothing with a male protagonist. I mean I write male protagonists but I add something to them that makes them unique. Like one of my main characters is a bisexual. He can't fight, and uses his wits. He is clever with his tongue. He sits down and thinks about things. His sister is the opposite she is blunt and manipulative, she follows a completely different ethic. He can't use people, she uses people.

Characters are characters. I have written many female characters. I wrote a poem about a girl I met on a train, who I never saw again, and found out she had committed sucicide. So I wrote a poem piece about her. But male characters for me are simpler to write. They are easier because I can relate. I can understand what they go through better than a girl. For a girl I have to research, I have to think hard. I have to watch and see what happens.

Also....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJihi5rB_Ek&feature=youtu.be

**Bullockist**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
The Fine Young Capitalists are tired of apologising.

Thanks for that link, that has to be the most refreshing stuff I have ever read about feminism. Who knew that feminism was about getting out there and getting gak done, I always thought it was about demonising society.

**Asherian Command**

Bullockist wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
The Fine Young Capitalists are tired of apologising.

Thanks for that link, that has to be the most refreshing stuff I have ever read about feminism. Who knew that feminism was about getting out there and getting gak done, I always thought it was about demonising society.

Sorry I am laughing really hard, because I support the feminist ideas and policies, I just condemn the radicals as radicals.

**Bullockist**

why? msybe i misread it but most of the posts seemed to be saying "no one is special just because they are a woman and we are trying to make games that may or may not be of the usual type/author? what is radical about this? It seems to be they are all about "sisters doing it for themselves"without tacking on the usual political inanities that accompany some feminist activists. I particularly enjoyed the use of the word cripple

, in my family we call each other blind due to eyesight problems so it kinda resonated with me.

I just like that they seem to be a positive force, instead of just pointing out deficiencies and being negative, they are getting out there and achieving something. I will be keeping tabs on them in the future i think.

**H.B.M.C.**

Another article (this time about the #NotYourShield movement) that tries to cut through the nonsense and obvious strawmanning.

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

Mechanical Crow wrote:
Yeah the SJWS are using gender, race and everything else as a defence, luckily the varied gamers are coming forth with #notyourshield

Oh yeah, those evils SJW of evil…

**H.B.M.C.**

I hear bells tolling somewhere in the distance...

**Asherian Command**

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Mechanical Crow wrote:
Yeah the SJWS are using gender, race and everything else as a defence, luckily the varied gamers are coming forth with #notyourshield

Oh yeah, those evils SJW of evil…

I don't think thats what he has said.

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

No, that is what I said.

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

Ignore him, he's trying to get the thread closed down.

**Talizvar**

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Ignore him, he's trying to get the thread closed down.

It may not be a bad thing.
Threads like this are showing how hard it is to evaluate someone's work on it's own merit.
Many people like to try to be fair and are willing to examine their prejudices and ask "are they unduly influencing our behavior?".
This is why these topics are so divisive since there is no absolute way to be sure we are all being fair (and many people have varying degrees of entitlement).
There are so many groups trying to get on this bandwagon to further their own agendas that just muddy it further.

Treat the ladies like a normal person and assume they mess-up or take lumps like anyone else and do not need a white knight.
Then all these "me too" and "if you think that is bad, look over here!!!" groups can go feth themselves.

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

can go feth themselves

Amen.

**Asherian Command**

Talizvar wrote:
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Ignore him, he's trying to get the thread closed down.
It may not be a bad thing.
Threads like this are showing how hard it is to evaluate someone's work on it's own merit.
Many people like to try to be fair and are willing to examine their prejudices and ask "are they unduly influencing our behavior?".
This is why these topics are so divisive since there is no absolute way to be sure we are all being fair (and many people have varying degrees of entitlement).
There are so many groups trying to get on this bandwagon to further their own agendas that just muddy it further.

Treat the ladies like a normal person and assume they mess-up or take lumps like anyone else and do not need a white knight.
Then all these "me too" and "if you think that is bad, look over here!!!" groups can go feth themselves.

Interesting.

I mean I just found out a few minutes ago that someone is trying to profit from gamer's gate scandal. And has thus far.... made only a thousand dollars. Which is nothing sneeze at.

But lets face it that's kind of despicable.

But yeah on the topic.

There has been little responses from the game's media about the hashtag. I think they have given up.

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

I am wondering why I should want to get the thread closed down.

**Slarg232**

Is the person whose trying to profiteer from Gamergate doing so through "Getting a Lawyer"?

**Asherian Command**

Slarg232 wrote:
Is the person whose trying to profiteer from Gamergate doing so through "Getting a Lawyer"?

Yep. That is what was happening.

It was kind of funny.

**Alpharius**

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I am wondering why I should want to get the thread closed down.

That's a good question!

Why would you want to get this thread closed?

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

I do not.

**Talizvar**

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I do not.

Well why not????
Hehe...
I will do this for us and call the end:

Our MOD who art a heathen,
reviled be thine name,
may thee come,
our thread be done,
on dakka and 4chan.

Give us a stay of being banned,
And forgive us our transgressions,
As we will flame those that transgress against us,
Lead us not into copy threads,
Deliver us from people,
For thine is the freedom,
For the honor and ignominy,
For dakka and dakka.

Amen.

**whembly**

Can anyone post a non-youtube cliffnotes version of what's going on here?

<----this guy is confused.

**LordofHats**

whembly wrote:
Can anyone post a non-youtube cliffnotes version of what's going on here?

<----this guy is confused.

By Hats in another thread;

It's been kind of lost in the other thread as we talk about other things but this is basically how the story goes;

Fine Young Capitalists started a charity event called "Games Jam" to back women to make a game and give the proceeds to charity. The goal was to give women who otherwise lacked the ability to do so a chance to make a game and was inspired by a comment read by one of the FYC members that "women couldn't make a game even if they wanted to" somewhere on the internet (he's never specified where he read this). So the basic goal was "tell us a game you want to make and we'll get it made and give the proceeds to charity."

At the same time Pepsi was organizing a similar event to which Zoe Quinn was a participant. Zoe found her way to the FYC event and essentially got the group black balled from media outlets and attempted to shut down the crowd funding projects (the later failed, as they say). The Pepsi event itself fell apart this past March and never materialized into anything. Quinn wrote an article that's kind of baffling and confusing to read really, but it essentially seems to be her stressing out over getting sued while this event falls apart. She makes it very unclear however exactly what happened to collapse the event and it basically disappears to never be seen again.

Until her ex, Eron Gjoni, went online and published a document detailing her cheating on him with 5 other men. Not long after he did that people asked him about the Pepsi Game Jam, as by this August it had already become a minor conspiracy on crowd funding sites and he accused her of purposely sabotaging the Pepsi Game Jam event (which he claims was to the tune of $100 million) because it would 'damage her image.' He's never specifically detailed any of this information, so at least as to his accusations that she cheated on him we only have his word.

The 'she cheated on me' thing has not been substantiated, but her sabotage of the FYC Game Jam has been, and it seems credible that she played some part in the collapse of the Pepsi Game Jam. But basically her ex leveled those accusations at her, and given the previous conspiracy theory over the Games Jam events already running, after he made his announcements the event exploded on the internet and 2 weeks later here we stand.

EDIT: As an expansion, over the past two weeks numerous claims of censorship and conspiracy have popped up on Steam, Twitter, Imgur, and Reddit as well as on media outlets that the conspiracy (Quinnspiracy or GamerGate) was being covered up by outlets not reporting on it and deleting posts and threads attempting to discuss it. Several articles detailing the event were posted and then removed by outlets. Some people snapped screen shots over twitter and facebook of Zoe Quinn contacting admins from these sites and asking them to delete comments/threads or requesting private correspondence with them. One Reddit Mod posted a private message from her asking him to delete comments on Total Biscuit's video about the event. That mods privileges were removed and another moderator started deleting the reddit which only added fuel to the fire.

To an extent, part of the 'cover up' is likely attributable to these sides not wanting to publish unsubstantiated claims or 'feed the beast' so to speak, but the numerous deletions and article removals have only added fuel to the conspiracy fire, especially now that numerous people are doxing members of the game media and finding lots of connections between them that more than hint at unethical conduct.

Expansion: Since then, FYC have teamed up with 4chan of all places to produce their Games Jam event as well as lended their character Vivian James to the Vivian James Presents Women in Game Design series of videos. A huge stink has started up now, where one side of the argument is calling gamers misogynists, gamers are calling journalists corrupt, and the internet might as well be on fire cause the flame way is that big.

**daedalus**

Now I'm a little confused. Can you do the same thing, but inject at which point specifically where the gaming journalism industry went berserk and started gaking exclusively where it ate?

**squidhills**

whembly wrote:
Can anyone post a non-youtube cliffnotes version of what's going on here?

<----this guy is confused.

A female game developer may have slept with a game journalist game reviewer guy, in exchange for a better review of her game.

Gamers began to complain about corruption in gaming journalism.

Some gamers were misogynistic douchecrackers about it and attacked the female game developer.

Gaming journalists decided that ALL gamers were misogynists, therefore corruption in gaming journalism did not exist.

Gaming journalists attacked all gamers as though all gamers sent angry, misogynistic e-mails to the female game developer.

Gamers got upset that they were being unfairly maligned by the people who tell them what games to buy.

Game developers got in on the act and called gamers horrible, horrible subhumans for supporting misogyny.

Gamers got even madder now that the people who *make* the games are calling them names.

Gamers continue to point out that the issue is corruption and lack of transparency in gaming journalism.

Gamer journos/devs continue to scream misogyny, sexism, racism, and any other -ism they can.

Female, gay, and minority gamers start a hashtag movement to inform game journos/devs that they are not all misogynistic white males and the issue really really is about corruption, so shut the feth up, journos/devs.

Ninja'd like a noob.

**Asherian Command**

I think the entire thing is starting to wind down.

Oh damn it.

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/the-ed-morrissey-show

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/lawyers-against-gaming-corruption#home

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23notyourshield&src=tyah

Automatically Appended Next Post:

daedalus wrote:
Now I'm a little confused. Can you do the same thing, but inject at which point specifically where the gaming journalism industry went berserk and started gaking exclusively where it ate?

It was trying to distract gamers from the fact that there was a very real problem in the journalism where the majority of them were indeed corrupt and bought and paid for by big publishers.

**LordofHats**

daedalus wrote:
Now I'm a little confused. Can you do the same thing, but inject at which point specifically where the gaming journalism industry went berserk and started gaking exclusively where it ate?

Just edited. I have absolutely no idea why or exactly when they started going absolutely bat gak, but it started mid last week with a bunch of articles called "The Death of Gamers" that seemed more like a fantasy than anything resembling reporting. The debate is now mostly about one group of gamers and commentators wanting to talk about unethical conduct and corruption, and a group of gamers and journalists calling the first group sexists and wanting to talk about sexism/misogyny.

So basically a bunch of chickens with their heads cut off clucking madly at each other with a whole slew of really really ugly things being said.

**Compel**

squidhills wrote:

A female game developer may have slept with a game journalist game reviewer guy, in exchange for a better review of her game.

Gamers began to complain about corruption in gaming journalism.

Some gamers were misogynistic douchecrackers about it and attacked the female game developer.

Gaming journalists decided that ALL gamers were misogynists, therefore corruption in gaming journalism did not exist.

Gaming journalists attacked all gamers as though all gamers sent angry, misogynistic e-mails to the female game developer.

Gamers got upset that they were being unfairly maligned by the people who tell them what games to buy.

Game developers got in on the act and called gamers horrible, horrible subhumans for supporting misogyny.

Gamers got even madder now that the people who *make* the games are calling them names.

Gamers continue to point out that the issue is corruption and lack of transparency in gaming journalism.

Gamer journos/devs continue to scream misogyny, sexism, racism, and any other -ism they can.

Female, gay, and minority gamers start a hashtag movement to inform game journos/devs that they are not all misogynistic white males and the issue really really is about corruption, so shut the feth up, journos/devs.

Ninja'd like a noob.

I understood this version without getting a headache! 5 stars from me!

**whembly**

Thanks...

and... holy gak thats FUBAR'ed by all accounts.

Simply stated, the integrity of "Gaming Journalism" is being questioned and said journalists are nerd-raging across all cultural/political spectrum to deflect said criticisms?

Right?

Sounds like a normal lineup on MSNBC.

**LordofHats**

whembly wrote:
Thanks...

and... holy gak thats FUBAR'ed by all accounts.

Simply stated, the integrity of "Gaming Journalism" is being questioned and said journalists are nerd-raging across all cultural/political spectrum to deflect said criticisms?

Right?

Sounds link a normal lineup on MSNBC.

More or less.

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

Talizvar wrote:
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I do not.
Well why not????
Hehe...
I will do this for us and call the end:

Our MOD who art a heathen,
reviled be thine name,
may thee come,
our thread be done,
on dakka and 4chan.

Give us a stay of being banned,
And forgive us our transgressions,
As we will flame those that transgress against us,
Lead us not into copy threads,
Deliver us from people,
For thine is the freedom,
For the honor and ignominy,
For dakka and dakka.

Amen.

[/thread]

**Asherian Command**

whembly wrote:
Thanks...

and... holy gak thats FUBAR'ed by all accounts.

Simply stated, the integrity of "Gaming Journalism" is being questioned and said journalists are nerd-raging across all cultural/political spectrum to deflect said criticisms?

Right?

Sounds like a normal lineup on MSNBC.

Except the difference is that they are all sleeping together and are actively involved.