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 Elmir wrote:
Ok, I think I may just have found the cheapest way possible to incorporate droppods into the GK army (and I don't think I'd even need to buy extra models).

Champions of Fenris has the Company of the great Wolf detachment. Mandatory are 1 HQ and 2 elites. Optionals are 3FA. Only restriction is that all models need to be from the Space Wolves Faction.

Reading through codex: SW, it would seem that a single servitor is a valid choice for an elite slot (as long as you don't take an iron priest, they use up a FoC slot).

So for a mere 20 points, you can get 2 servitors to get your minimum requirements. For HQ, I was thinking of running a rune priest or a wolf guard battle leader, (represented by a PA inquisitor).

So through this special detachment, your investment in SW would be a mere 70 or 80 points (depending on which you value more) and it would unlock 3 Drop pods for some shenanigans with purifiers in combat squads!

This is actually a good idea to make GK more flexible.
Three small Purifier units with two special weapons and one daemon hammer each is a decent choice.
Cleasing flame is a bonus on top.

Fair point, but I think Purifiers are a waste of points due to their lack of deepstrike in the first place

Instead I would just take an interceptor squad if you want that mobility, or just stick to PAGKs

Another idea I was toying around with, was to just get 2 "normal" dreadnoughts via the SW list in. Still with dual TL Autocannons though. Through that codex, they clock in at only 115p, rather than the ridiculously overprices gak @145 we pay.

So a rought draft:

Detachment 1: Company of the great Wolf

HQ: Rune priest @60p

Eltes: 2x dakka dread @230p

FA: 3x Drop pods @105p

ADL + comms relay €70p

Detachment 2: Nemesis strike force

HQ: Lvl 3 libby @135

5 strike squad marines (for 1 droppod) with incinerator €115p

Elites: 2 10 man purifier squads with special special weapons of your choice @550p (combat squad them for loads of dice, and more cleansing flames).

HS: 2 NDK with PT, Sword, HPC @410



This would be around 1675p. It's a bit low on psycannons, but getting 2 dakka dread might help a bit with that.

Well, its an interesting list.
Indeed, the GK Dreads are a bit overpriced and misconcepted (with sanctuary).
However, I'd drop the ADL with comms relay since you just roll for a single Pod in round 2.

Hmmm, I was thinking of dropping in the NDKs too... I like the concept of not having to use shunt on first turn necesarily.

Also, I'm not sure how the interaction of the nemesis detachment and the droppods go... Maybe you'll end up rolling turn 1 too.

 Elmir wrote:
Hmmm, I was thinking of dropping in the NDKs too... I like the concept of not having to use shunt on first turn necesarily.

Also, I'm not sure how the interaction of the nemesis detachment and the droppods go... Maybe you'll end up rolling turn 1 too.

Well, I'd keep the NDK's. Otherwise, you could play vanilla Marines as wel.

Moreover, I guess there will not be any interaction between the two detachments.

No no, I meant dropping as in: deepstriking

It seems that a lot of people are looking at the synergy that is gained from combining Space Wolves and Grey Knights and I really like the lists coming out but I am trying something else. I like getting a hold of that lack of anti-armor inherent to the Grey Knights so I have taken regular Space Marines with Imperial Fist Chapter tactics with Drop Pods and Centurions which works beautifully with the Grey Knights.

As nice as they are, for the points the cents are not worth it.

Which sucks because I have them modeled up....

I think if you are going imperial fists, the devs are much better.

 Leth wrote:
As nice as they are, for the points the cents are not worth it.

Which sucks because I have them modeled up....

I think if you are going imperial fists, the devs are much better.

My only problem with going a straight Devastator Squad vs. Devastator Centurions is that the Devastator squads can be easily wiped by S8 AP3 weaponry, not so much for my Centurions. My Centurions are kitted out with TL Lascannons and Missile Launchers. They make short work of armor and they have a Librarian protecting them.

 Envihon wrote:

 Leth wrote:
As nice as they are, for the points the cents are not worth it.

Which sucks because I have them modeled up....

I think if you are going imperial fists, the devs are much better.

My only problem with going a straight Devastator Squad vs. Devastator Centurions is that the Devastator squads can be easily wiped by S8 AP3 weaponry, not so much for my Centurions. My Centurions are kitted out with TL Lascannons and Missile Launchers. They make short work of armor and they have a Librarian protecting them.

O I agree but at that point you are looking at a 500 point unit. You could get 12 tank hunting lascannons in 3 devastator squads for that number of points and have points to spare.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, its an interesting list.
Indeed, the GK Dreads are a bit overpriced and misconcepted (with sanctuary).

I think paying 30 more points to get:

- the ability to re-roll 1s on DtW rolls
- an additional psychic dice and 50% chance to get either
- a 6+ invulnerable save
- or reduce ...say... a C'tan Shard's inv. to 5++ or a nova-charged Riptide's inv. to 4++ just before your NDK charges in

is fairly good. Also remember that you perils only on 2 sixes or more.

 Leth wrote:

 Envihon wrote:

 Leth wrote:
As nice as they are, for the points the cents are not worth it.

Which sucks because I have them modeled up....

I think if you are going imperial fists, the devs are much better.

My only problem with going a straight Devastator Squad vs. Devastator Centurions is that the Devastator squads can be easily wiped by S8 AP3 weaponry, not so much for my Centurions. My Centurions are kitted out with TL Lascannons and Missile Launchers. They make short work of armor and they have a Librarian protecting them.

O I agree but at that point you are looking at a 500 point unit. You could get 12 tank hunting lascannons in 3 devastator squads for that number of points and have points to spare.

How when only up to 4 per squad can take Heavy Weapons so if you take 10, 6 of them would be without heavy weapons which means you would need to take 3 separate squads which I don't think that fits into the Allied Detachment Force Org chart. Regardless, my Centurion Devastators cost 280 with 3 TL Lascannons and 3 Missle Launchers. The 3 Dev Squads with those 12 Lascannons would be 450 points so at that point my Centurion Devastators are cheaper. Heck, the 2 Devastator Squads are 300 points outfitted with all Lascannons. So you would get 8 shots with no TL and easily skilled while I get 6 shots with 3 of them twin linked 2W per model and a T5. Kind of liking my Centurions right now.

I was including the librarian in your unit cost 280 with split fire and about 100 for the librarian, your right it is 400 ish.

I was doing my math wrong, but i have just found them to be ind of lackluster for the points. With all the cover saves out there the number of shots without ignore cover is just meh.

 Leth wrote:
I was including the librarian in your unit cost 280 with split fire and about 100 for the librarian, your right it is 400 ish.

I was doing my math wrong, but i have just found them to be ind of lackluster for the points. With all the cover saves out there the number of shots without ignore cover is just meh.

My line up is this for 565 Points Imperial Fist Allied Detachment to my Grey Knights:

Librarian, ML 2

10 Tactical Squad, Meltagun, Combi-Melta (Sometime I wish I would of went Plasma but I was looking for anti-armor)
Drop Pod

3 Devastator Centurions, TL Lascannon, Missile Launcher

Usually I have the Librarian stay with the Centurions to protect them with various powers through Telepathy. They are usually in cover so Shroud helps if I don't get Invisibility. Honestly, my Centurions make a lot of their saves and are really hard to kill and usually, they are so wrapped up with my GK that they largely ignore all the Lascannon shots and missile launchers that just rip their armor apart. I am actually looking to make a Bikestar Command Squad formation for this detachment to make it a little more scary than it already is.

Hmm, I thought the Grav Centurions were the beefier choice. You like Lascannons and missiles better?

Super Newb wrote:
Hmm, I thought the Grav Centurions were the beefier choice. You like Lascannons and missiles better?

GK are great at taking out what you would take Grav weaponry for. The Psybolts hurt us a bit in that regard but they are still effective at taking out high armor targets especially Terminators equipped with Psycannons. What GK lack is Anti-armor and Grav doesn't do much to armor and it has limited range. I needed something to punch through armor and luckily my favorite Space Marine Chapter, the Imperial Fists, have a Chapter Tactic that is great at doing just that because they get Tank Hunter on all of their Devastator Squads that includes Centurion Devastators as well. With Grav Cannons you don't benefit from that Chapter Tactic so with that and the lack of range, I went with TL Lascannon and Missile Launchers. With the better range and Tank Hunter, my Centurions fill that anti-armor gap wonderfully.

Makes a damn lot of sense. Thanks for the explanation...

Super Newb wrote:
Makes a damn lot of sense. Thanks for the explanation...

I find that a lot of people underestimate the Imperial Fist Chapter Tactics. They may not be as good as the White Scars or the Iron Hands for an army by themselves but as an ally in need of something to blow up vehicles, they are great. Plus Bolter Drills help to make that troop choice you have to take better as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also Grav Centurions are good but only at the job they were made for.

 Envihon wrote:

Super Newb wrote:
Hmm, I thought the Grav Centurions were the beefier choice. You like Lascannons and missiles better?

GK are great at taking out what you would take Grav weaponry for. The Psybolts hurt us a bit in that regard but they are still effective at taking out high armor targets especially Terminators equipped with Psycannons. What GK lack is Anti-armor and Grav doesn't do much to armor and it has limited range. I needed something to punch through armor and luckily my favorite Space Marine Chapter, the Imperial Fists, have a Chapter Tactic that is great at doing just that because they get Tank Hunter on all of their Devastator Squads that includes Centurion Devastators as well. With Grav Cannons you don't benefit from that Chapter Tactic so with that and the lack of range, I went with TL Lascannon and Missile Launchers. With the better range and Tank Hunter, my Centurions fill that anti-armor gap wonderfully.

Well, lascannons and missile launchers are quite ineffective these days.
Cover is almost everywhere. With Jink flyers and whatnot are quite save from ranged shooting.
I'd take Grav Centurions all day.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Envihon wrote:

Super Newb wrote:
Hmm, I thought the Grav Centurions were the beefier choice. You like Lascannons and missiles better?

GK are great at taking out what you would take Grav weaponry for. The Psybolts hurt us a bit in that regard but they are still effective at taking out high armor targets especially Terminators equipped with Psycannons. What GK lack is Anti-armor and Grav doesn't do much to armor and it has limited range. I needed something to punch through armor and luckily my favorite Space Marine Chapter, the Imperial Fists, have a Chapter Tactic that is great at doing just that because they get Tank Hunter on all of their Devastator Squads that includes Centurion Devastators as well. With Grav Cannons you don't benefit from that Chapter Tactic so with that and the lack of range, I went with TL Lascannon and Missile Launchers. With the better range and Tank Hunter, my Centurions fill that anti-armor gap wonderfully.

Well, lascannons and missile launchers are quite ineffective these days.
Cover is almost everywhere. With Jink flyers and whatnot are quite save from ranged shooting.
I'd take Grav Centurions all day.

It's situational obviously.

Grav is affected by Cover just like Lascannons/missile launchers are tho, so not sure of your point?

That is my point as well, Grav Cents still won't do any better than the Lascannons and Missile Launchers unless they are given Prescience from a Librarian. Then you have more shots hitting but still Grav Guns can only hurt a vehicle on 6s and then you are only taking off hull points and immobilizing them. My TL LC/ML Cents have exploded vehicles with all the anti-armor fired and that is with Tank Hunter which I get to re-roll failed Penetrating shots. I can see why other Chapters would take just Grav Cents but for Imperial Fists, you get a highly effective unit for a cheaper price than it's 2 5-man Devastator squad equivalent. They do their job beautifully and have saved my GK from getting terrorized by pure mech armies. I pop them open and my GK take care of the rest.

Also, I plan on adding a Command Bike Squad with Grav here in a little while so I wouldn't want two units devoted to Grav.

MaxT wrote:
Grav is affected by Cover just like Lascannons/missile launchers are tho, so not sure of your point?

Well, grav guns have a shorter range. So your unit will be closer to the enemy, withing 24''.
At this range, your unit could be able to maneuver around cover if necessary.

 Elmir wrote:
Ok, I think I may just have found the cheapest way possible to incorporate droppods into the GK army (and I don't think I'd even need to buy extra models).

Champions of Fenris has the Company of the great Wolf detachment. Mandatory are 1 HQ and 2 elites. Optionals are 3FA. Only restriction is that all models need to be from the Space Wolves Faction.

Reading through codex: SW, it would seem that a single servitor is a valid choice for an elite slot (as long as you don't take an iron priest, they use up a FoC slot).

So for a mere 20 points, you can get 2 servitors to get your minimum requirements. For HQ, I was thinking of running a rune priest or a wolf guard battle leader, (represented by a PA inquisitor).

So through this special detachment, your investment in SW would be a mere 70 or 80 points (depending on which you value more) and it would unlock 3 Drop pods for some shenanigans with purifiers in combat squads!

For the for the first time since the new Codex has dropped I am forced to reconsider my writing off of Purifiers in my 1500 point army. Nice post and good idea.

 wuestenfux wrote:

MaxT wrote:
Grav is affected by Cover just like Lascannons/missile launchers are tho, so not sure of your point?

Well, grav guns have a shorter range. So your unit will be closer to the enemy, withing 24''.
At this range, your unit could be able to maneuver around cover if necessary.

They also tend to be slow without Gate of Infinity or a Land Raider to cart them around. I get what you are saying but I still wouldn't take Grav Cents for dealing with vehicles even with Prescience and the Grav amp, that would be a waste of grav imo.

I will take 5 shots over two any day lol for 10 fewer points to boot.

Also although you are right you can get explodes, it only takes 2 6s to kill most vehicles with grav, and even one result gets the second best result on the pen table against a lot of vehicles(immobilized).

In addition the biggest offender doesnt really care about your pens because they just downgrade it. But they sure as sure care about immobilized.

Here's a list I'm running atm that has seen success so far against Space Wolves with a Knight Paladin ally.

Nemesis Strikeforce detachment

1 Librarian with ML3, Hammer, Stormbolter, Relic(the psychic power one)
1 Librarian with ML3, Hammer, Stormbolter

10 Terminators with 1 Warding Stave, 7 Halberds, 2 Hammers, 2 Psycannons

1 Stormraven with Assault Cannon and MM

6 Purifiers with 2 Hammers (go in the Stormraven)

1 Dreadknight with Greatsword, H. Incinerator, PT
1 Dreadknight with Greatsword, H. Incinerator, PT

1 Allied Knight Errant

2 Librarians together is fantastic. I rolled 6 for warlord trait so my warlord had 5 rolls on Sanctic. The other Librarian picked up Invisibility and Prescious. Attached to the Terminators they Deep Struck turn 1, casted invisibility, and became a beatstick the rest of the game with 4 Hammers and lots of Strength 7 attacks. They took out the Knight Paladin in melee and a few squads of Grey Hunters.

 Leth wrote:
I will take 5 shots over two any day lol for 10 fewer points to boot.

Also although you are right you can get explodes, it only takes 2 6s to kill most vehicles with grav, and even one result gets the second best result on the pen table against a lot of vehicles(immobilized).

In addition the biggest offender doesnt really care about your pens because they just downgrade it. But they sure as sure care about immobilized.

I still feel that Grav Weapons are a bit more geared towards taking on 2+ and 3+ armor. Also their short range bothers me a great deal, you almost have to get them up close and you have to have them start on the front line if you are wanting to get any shots in the first couple of turns. This leaves them exposed without a delivery system and Centurions definite will be a target your opponent would need to worry about. They are good but not invincible. A couple of AP2 shots and they are done especially without an Invul save.

Grav Centurions are a good, versatile unit that can do things and you are right, they can 2 shot a vehicle with double 6s. Honestly, I see a give and take here for a unit that for me is taken specifically for hunting vehicles. You have a unit that is shorter range, higher risk but more shots to get something and remove the vehicle or 3 TL shots with re-roll Pen and 3 shots with re-roll Pen. Either way you look at it, both are not completely sure fire and the dice can still screw you. If you take a Librarian with them, Prescience isn't what it used to be with being two warp charges it doesn't go off as much and risks Perils but Invisibility is the same way.

My main point is this, if I took Centurions just to have Centurions, I would of went with the Grav Centurions because of how beastly they are. Taking Grav Cents for the sole reason to go after vehicles seems like bad tactics to me. To me, my play experience is that my TL LC/ML Centurions do just fine to fill the anti-armor gap in my army. When building them, I heard a lot of mixed reviews as well, I wanted to magnetize them but screwed up and went this set up instead. I needed a unit that sits in the back field providing heavy fire because I have plenty of 24" ranged weaponry getting in the face my enemy like my GK and my Imperial Knight. It also gives me a unit that can sit on back field objectives and still be useful. You need to walk Grav Cents around if they aren't in range. They are effective at what they do, but for what I need them to do, this set up is definitely worth it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Zimko wrote:
Here's a list I'm running atm that has seen success so far against Space Wolves with a Knight Paladin ally.

Nemesis Strikeforce detachment

1 Librarian with ML3, Hammer, Stormbolter, Relic(the psychic power one)
1 Librarian with ML3, Hammer, Stormbolter

10 Terminators with 1 Warding Stave, 7 Halberds, 2 Hammers, 2 Psycannons

1 Stormraven with Assault Cannon and MM

6 Purifiers with 2 Hammers (go in the Stormraven)

1 Dreadknight with Greatsword, H. Incinerator, PT
1 Dreadknight with Greatsword, H. Incinerator, PT

1 Allied Knight Errant

2 Librarians together is fantastic. I rolled 6 for warlord trait so my warlord had 5 rolls on Sanctic. The other Librarian picked up Invisibility and Prescious. Attached to the Terminators they Deep Struck turn 1, casted invisibility, and became a beatstick the rest of the game with 4 Hammers and lots of Strength 7 attacks. They took out the Knight Paladin in melee and a few squads of Grey Hunters.

I really like the style of this list because it was sort of how I wanted to run a list with a Knight Errant. The set up for Librarians is nice as well, I want to do the same thing. Have one Librarian with the book roll on nothing but Sanctic and the other rolls on Telepathy looking for that Invisibility to make a super squad in the backfield. I put Psycannons on my Dreadknights but are you finding that they really aren't needed? I see it as a luxury item but damn if it isn't effective.

 Envihon wrote:

I really like the style of this list because it was sort of how I wanted to run a list with a Knight Errant. The set up for Librarians is nice as well, I want to do the same thing. Have one Librarian with the book roll on nothing but Sanctic and the other rolls on Telepathy looking for that Invisibility to make a super squad in the backfield. I put Psycannons on my Dreadknights but are you finding that they really aren't needed? I see it as a luxury item but damn if it isn't effective.

I would really like to put Psycannons on the Dreadknights but I can't find the points yet. I could run 5 purifiers with only 1 hammer. That would give me enough points to try a Dreadknight with both weapons. But is it needed? I don't think so. I will only get about 2 turns of shooting with it before the Dreadknight is either dead or in assault.