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 Melissia wrote:
Yep. I was mentioning the series as a whole, but Quake 3 is what I had in mind, and it had a ton of really interesting characters.

That is the only one I played, and I remember neither story nor characters in it. I mean, yeah, there were some nice models, Xaero and Lucy and Hunter and Sarge and Plesk and all that, but had any of them a backstory beside “This is a demon alien” “This is an angry fat lady” “This is a space shaolin monk” ?

Wow. And lazy is a pretty aggressive statement.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Again debatable, its the default for game developers.

No, the default is "generic white man with stubby face".

 Asherian Command wrote:
They are lazy enough that they don't want to write a story focused character, one who evolves and changes over time.

The default now is badass who stays badass.

And there's nothing that indicates a blank slate character has to be that.

 Melissia wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
Again debatable, its the default for game developers.

No, the default is "generic white man with stubby face".

 Asherian Command wrote:
They are lazy enough that they don't want to write a story focused character, one who evolves and changes over time.

The default now is badass who stays badass.

And there's nothing that indicates a blank slate character has to be that.

For mainstream First person shooters and third persons. Yes. But for RPG games, it is defaulted to blank slates.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Yep. I was mentioning the series as a whole, but Quake 3 is what I had in mind, and it had a ton of really interesting characters.

That is the only one I played, and I remember neither story nor characters in it. I mean, yeah, there were some nice models, Xaero and Lucy and Hunter and Sarge and Plesk and all that, but had any of them a backstory beside “This is a demon alien” “This is an angry fat lady” “This is a space shaolin monk” ?

There's little background blurbs for each one. For example, Ranger was the main character in Quake 1. he was supposedly so scarred from battle that he was barely human any more. Eventually he was captured and thrown in the Arena, to live an eternity of violence-- at which point the gave up in despair, and became resigned to his fate.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Yep. I was mentioning the series as a whole, but Quake 3 is what I had in mind, and it had a ton of really interesting characters.

That is the only one I played, and I remember neither story nor characters in it. I mean, yeah, there were some nice models, Xaero and Lucy and Hunter and Sarge and Plesk and all that, but had any of them a backstory beside “This is a demon alien” “This is an angry fat lady” “This is a space shaolin monk” ?

All id games had a more or less elaborate background story. Sometimes in a readme file

quake game manual wrote:"thou cannot kill that which duth not live....but you can blast it to chunkie kibbles"

Quake 3 doesn't have a story, it's a multiplayer only FPS. And characters...I cannot recall one and I safely assume that ~100% of all players can't.

/e:...and really, I don't count "ZESE ARE ZE MIGHTIEST WARRIORS IN AN ARENAAAA" as a story.

 Melissia wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
Again debatable, its the default for game developers.

No, the default is "generic white man with stubby face".

 Asherian Command wrote:
For mainstream First person shooters and third persons. Yes. But for RPG games, it is defaulted to blank slates.

I don't see any evidence of this. There's still tons of RPGs where you are forced to play as someone else's character instead of creating your own like a proper RPG.

 Melissia wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
For mainstream First person shooters and third persons. Yes. But for RPG games, it is defaulted to blank slates.

I don't see any evidence of this. There's still tons of RPGs where you are forced to play as someone else's character instead of creating your own like a proper RPG.

Proper RPG as in "Your idea of a RPG".

 Melissia wrote:
There's little background blurbs for each one.

Yeah, those. That is how I know Plesk was a demonic alien, else I would have thought he/she/it was just an alien .

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
For mainstream First person shooters and third persons. Yes. But for RPG games, it is defaulted to blank slates.

I don't see any evidence of this. There's still tons of RPGs where you are forced to play as someone else's character instead of creating your own like a proper RPG.

Proper RPG as in "Your idea of a RPG".

or more likely as in pen and paper RPGs...

Minx wins an internets.

Oh, bad memory, the name was Klesk. And it was not even a demon apparently.
http://quake.wikia.com/wiki/Klesk

 Minx wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
For mainstream First person shooters and third persons. Yes. But for RPG games, it is defaulted to blank slates.

I don't see any evidence of this. There's still tons of RPGs where you are forced to play as someone else's character instead of creating your own like a proper RPG.

Proper RPG as in "Your idea of a RPG".

or more likely as in pen and paper RPGs...

..which is a "proper" RPG because...?

Quake III character design!

Quake 3's writing was just plain weird. But its characters were still neat.

 Minx wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
For mainstream First person shooters and third persons. Yes. But for RPG games, it is defaulted to blank slates.

I don't see any evidence of this. There's still tons of RPGs where you are forced to play as someone else's character instead of creating your own like a proper RPG.

Proper RPG as in "Your idea of a RPG".

or more likely as in pen and paper RPGs...

*sigh*

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Minx wrote:
or more likely as in pen and paper RPGs...

..which is a "proper" RPG because...?

RP-computer-games were / are inspired by pen-and-paper RPGs and sometimes are just straight translations of the pnp variety. It seems quite adequate to use proper in these circumstances then.

Or if you prefer, "RPGs proper", if you think "proper RPGs" is somehow stuck up or arrogant.

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
Debatable. I would hate to see a blank slate horror game.

Project Zomboid is one of the best zombie horror games ever made. Only the tutorial has anything other than a blank slate of a character.

Yet again debatable. I disagree.

I hate the zombie genre as a whole as it is just a reuse over and over again. As the horror genre is sort of gone down hill, there are some good games out there but for every walking dead game we have we have 12 call of duty zombie game rip offs.

As strange as it is, I still enjoy zombie games. I mean who would have guessed zombies have so much staying power. Also this though is on topic because has anyone noticed that zombie games seem to have some progressive casts? I was thinking about state of decay the other day and it is chocked full diversity. I think there is something about the kind of setting that almost mandates it.

Well, more progressive than most other game types yes.

 Melissia wrote:
Or if you prefer, "RPGs proper", if you think "proper RPGs" is somehow stuck up or arrogant.

It's the same. If you think there's anything like a "proper" RPG, then that's your very personal definition. Any cRPG is just as much of a RPG than a PnP RPG.

Strictly speaking, almost every game ever made is a Role-Playing Game in some way or other.

 Melissia wrote:
Strictly speaking, almost every game ever made is a Role-Playing Game in some way or other.

Some games aren't. I would kind of define them as movie games or game games. A movie game is the kind that has a story it wants to tell you and treats the player as an more of an observer then a participant. Then you have game games that are just games like tetris were the context/story is this is a game you are playing.

I did say "almost" every game.

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Minx wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
For mainstream First person shooters and third persons. Yes. But for RPG games, it is defaulted to blank slates.

I don't see any evidence of this. There's still tons of RPGs where you are forced to play as someone else's character instead of creating your own like a proper RPG.

Proper RPG as in "Your idea of a RPG".

or more likely as in pen and paper RPGs...

*sigh*

They want a Proper RPG?

 Jehan-reznor wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Minx wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
For mainstream First person shooters and third persons. Yes. But for RPG games, it is defaulted to blank slates.

I don't see any evidence of this. There's still tons of RPGs where you are forced to play as someone else's character instead of creating your own like a proper RPG.

Proper RPG as in "Your idea of a RPG".

or more likely as in pen and paper RPGs...

*sigh*

They want a Proper RPG?

Spoiler:

No just me sighing. Because I don't agree. I don't think I should force players to make their own character. I also think it gives the player to much agency. It makes the player feel privileged that they earned that victory. I don't want them to feel that way.

I want them they achieved something, but I don't want them to feel like they alone did it.

Yeah, a proper RPG. Where you can play as a true Scotsman.

She's describing the difference between a game where a role is given to you to play (Final Fantasy) and a game where a world is given to you and you create a role in it (Elder Scrolls). It's a fine difference by it's not mythical. In a traditional sense the later is a more 'proper' RPG in the sense that it more closely adheres to the spirit of the table top games RPG video games were initially modeled after.