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I think we are getting a little sidetracked. So if I understand you correctly WoD is an attack that is not a snap shot therefore it can't hit an invisible unit.

Let me ask you then, if a unit is forced to only fire snap shots, because of reasons, does it use it WoD when assaulted?

 humanas wrote:
I think we are getting a little sidetracked. So if I understand you correctly WoD is an attack that is not a snap shot therefore it can't hit an invisible unit.

Let me ask you then, if a unit is forced to only fire snap shots, because of reasons, does it use it WoD when assaulted?

From memory, I believe no, as there would be a restriction on the firing unit can only fire snapshots, and an allowance to fire WoD during overwatch.

This would be following the same principle of multiple restrictions where a permission only 'counters' (if you like) one of them. The most used example of this, in 6th was assault vehicles (now assault vehicles have extra wording around them). Ignoring the 7th extra clarity you have...

Assault vehicle with passengers comes in from reserves, Restriction: embarked unit can not assault that turn.
Transports have a inherent Restriction; embarked units can not assault turn they disembark
Assault vehicle with passengers has special rule Permission: units can charge the turn they disembark.

In that example, the unit could not charge from the assault vehicle if it's arrived from reserves. In 7th they actually tagged on the line to the assault vehicle special rule (can assault unless arrived from reserves).

My problem is that invisibility does not protect from automatic hits. The unit is allowed to fire overwatch, and as soon as overwatch is fired the hits are inflicted. Even if we consider WoD a shooting attack (something that I am still not truly sold on) it is one that automatically hits. The unit can only be hit by snap shots but we bypass the Roll to hit part of the shooting sequence and that is the part that snap shots are relevant. You see the defender does not fire a snap shot, but automatically inflicts hits, bypassing the attack part.

Too far fetched ?

 Nem wrote:
Ok to put another way. Hammer of wrath is a special rule. Does it mean its not a CC attack? As in, you can take cover saves from Hammer of wrath?

HoW is a special rule that grants an extra Attack. Since Attacks ignore cover, yes, this Attack ignores cover.

Grav weapon is a special rule, does that mean its not a shooting attack?

Grave Weapon is not a special rule, it's a weapon type. Graviton is a special rule.

And I would say Nova's can not, based on the same reason they can not hit Swooping FMC's etc. The FAQ is not currently present but we all know the 6th ed one....

6th ed snap shot FaQ for reference:

"Q: How do maelstroms, novas and beams – or indeed any weapon that doesn’t need to roll To Hit or hits automatically – interact with Zooming Flyers and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures? (p13)
A: Only Snap Shots can hit Zooming Flyers and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures. Therefore, any attacks that use blast markers, templates, create a line of/area of effect or otherwise don’t roll to hit cannot target them. This includes weapons such as the Necron Doom Scythe’s death ray or the Deathstrike missile of the Imperial Guard, and psychic powers that follow the rule for maelstroms, beams, and novas."

As noted this is a old FAQ - but it gives us the reason why, and no rules concerned have changed in 7th. [Edit] I lied, Nova has indeed changed to include hitting 'Flyers and FMC's', although not clear if that includes Swooping / Zooming ones as it's not specified, might have something to do with Automatic targeting? or they thought putting it in bold would just be enough /rolleyes

Well if we are using 6th ed FAQs for reference (even if admitting they are not applicable anymore),

Q: Does a weapon that hits automatically, still hit automatically when making a Snap Shot? (p13)
A: Yes.

So, lets see. When firing Overwatch, Template weapons automatically hit. Since Overwatch is a Snap Shot, and Template weapons auto hit, they still [pause inserted for dramatic effect] automatically hit.

 Happyjew wrote:

 Nem wrote:
Ok to put another way. Hammer of wrath is a special rule. Does it mean its not a CC attack? As in, you can take cover saves from Hammer of wrath?

HoW is a special rule that grants an extra Attack. Since Attacks ignore cover, yes, this Attack ignores cover.

Grav weapon is a special rule, does that mean its not a shooting attack?

Grave Weapon is not a special rule, it's a weapon type. Graviton is a special rule.

And I would say Nova's can not, based on the same reason they can not hit Swooping FMC's etc. The FAQ is not currently present but we all know the 6th ed one....

6th ed snap shot FaQ for reference:

"Q: How do maelstroms, novas and beams – or indeed any weapon that doesn’t need to roll To Hit or hits automatically – interact with Zooming Flyers and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures? (p13)
A: Only Snap Shots can hit Zooming Flyers and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures. Therefore, any attacks that use blast markers, templates, create a line of/area of effect or otherwise don’t roll to hit cannot target them. This includes weapons such as the Necron Doom Scythe’s death ray or the Deathstrike missile of the Imperial Guard, and psychic powers that follow the rule for maelstroms, beams, and novas."

As noted this is a old FAQ - but it gives us the reason why, and no rules concerned have changed in 7th. [Edit] I lied, Nova has indeed changed to include hitting 'Flyers and FMC's', although not clear if that includes Swooping / Zooming ones as it's not specified, might have something to do with Automatic targeting? or they thought putting it in bold would just be enough /rolleyes

Well if we are using 6th ed FAQs for reference (even if admitting they are not applicable anymore),

Q: Does a weapon that hits automatically, still hit automatically when making a Snap Shot? (p13)
A: Yes.

So, lets see. When firing Overwatch, Template weapons automatically hit. Since Overwatch is a Snap Shot, and Template weapons auto hit, they still [pause inserted for dramatic effect] automatically hit.

The template can not snap shot though, you are in no way making a snap shot with the template , you in fact do not have the ability to do so. So you can hit automatically if you found some permission to snap fire the template? You can not make a snap shot with a template (Snap shot rules, Template rules and WoD rules), and attacks which do not use BS can not be fired as a snap shot (Snap shot rules), covering both the weapon and the WoD special rule - nothing in there can be fired as a snap shot.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Whilst the power is in effect, enemy units can only fire Snap Shots at the target unit

Invisibility is different to hard to hit in the case that the emphasis is put on the firing unit rather than the being able to be targeted by the unit. Assuming were all happy with automatically hit still automatically hits when fired as a snap shot (Which must be pretty rare, I can't think of anything off the top of my head that uses BS and automatically hits - unless this is directly related to just a weapon that auto hits, if you still take BS into consideration). If we had a weapon that could snap fire and auto hits - fine, it has been fired as a Snap shot and has fulfilled the requirement for invisibility (but not necessarily hard to hit).


Best case for WoD is it not being fired but..

if a Template weapon fires Overwatch, it automatically inflicts D3 hits on

We know the weapon is being fired. Now they can only target the unit if they are firing snap shots......

Some weapon types, such as Template and Ordnance, or those that have certain special
rules, such as Blast, cannot be fired as Snap Shots. In addition, any shooting attack that
does not use Ballistic Skill cannot be ‘fired’ as a Snap Shot.

Template
weapons cannot fire Snap Shots.

Can't be fired as a snap shot, can never fulfill the requirements of invisibility.

And humanas, that's basically my issue with it, the fact it's bypassing the roll to hit means it's not snap firing, and you can only fire snap shots at the invisible unit. If its not being fired as a snap shot, you can not fire it at the target unit to invoke the rule. Invisibility protects against anything which is not being fired as a snap shot.

If you ask me if they meant for it to be like that, I don't know. The wording around many snap shot items and things like hard to hit could be better. Better structure would be the exclude everything then work on exception, and when I say exception I mean a lot better than the Nova ''exception'' which looks like it means to be, but lacks the necessary wording.

 Nem wrote:

And I would say Nova's can not, based on the same reason they can not hit Swooping FMC's etc. The FAQ is not currently present but we all know the 6th ed one....

The rules for Nova powers specifically state in parentheses that they can hit Flyers and Swooping FMCs. It doesn't also call out Invisibility but since you can only hit Swooping FMCs with Snap Shots then it is implied that you can hit Invisible units too.

Zimko wrote:

 Nem wrote:

And I would say Nova's can not, based on the same reason they can not hit Swooping FMC's etc. The FAQ is not currently present but we all know the 6th ed one....

The rules for Nova powers specifically state in parentheses that they can hit Flyers and Swooping FMCs. It doesn't also call out Invisibility but since you can only hit Swooping FMCs with Snap Shots then it is implied that you can hit Invisible units too.

Yes I added a edit on the end of that post when I checked the Nova rules and indeed they had actually changed this edition, but it doesn't actually say anything about Zooming flyers and Swooping FMC's... just it automatically targets everything including flyers and FMC's. This SHOULD say Swooping / Zooming etc to be clear, but we can just guess what they mean right? Nyahh writers.

This should also target invisible players, I noted in the edit I think it's meant to, anyway.

Zimko wrote:

 Nem wrote:

And I would say Nova's can not, based on the same reason they can not hit Swooping FMC's etc. The FAQ is not currently present but we all know the 6th ed one....

The rules for Nova powers specifically state in parentheses that they can hit Flyers and Swooping FMCs. It doesn't also call out Invisibility but since you can only hit Swooping FMCs with Snap Shots then it is implied that you can hit Invisible units too.

Nova powers are Witchfires, which can be fired as Snap Shots. So, it's not really an issue with them.

And in response to other posts, WoD does target and is a shooting attack:

"An Overwatch attack is resolved like a normal shooting attack...and uses all the normal rules for range, line of sight, cover saves and so on."

A target is declared as part of a normal shooting attack by the unit.

Oberron wrote:
Read through most of the stuff and super skimmed the last 4 or 5 post but the "Instead" part on the firing template on overwatch. Maybe the instead isn't talking about instead of firing snapshots but is tell you that instead of placeing the templace to measure hits? it's nearly 5 in the morning sooooo kinda loopy but someone tell me if this is a possibility?

There is no word "instead", which is why i put it between quotation marks. Sorry for any confusion.


There has indeed been some change between 6th and 7th, and i would really not want to discuss "how it was" in 6th.

 Nem wrote:
Nova has indeed changed[/b] to include hitting 'Flyers and FMC's', although not clear if that includes Swooping / Zooming ones as it's not specified, might have something to do with Automatic targeting? or they thought putting it in bold would just be enough /rolleyes

As i though, in 7th Edition, auto-hitting weapons are almost always auto-hitting, including when they need to make snap shots.

I do believe it is a case of Auto-Hit > Snap Shot, and still think this is the same for Wall of Death.

Think of it this way:

The unit is firing at an enemy during it's Assault Phase (Overwatch).
It has a restriction that it can only Snap Fire. (even though that is ALWAYS the case for Overwatch)
Wall of Death states that template weapons (during Overwatch) roll D3 automatic hits *instead* of Snap shooting like other weapons.

When in Overwatch, all weapons Snap Shoot but Templates Wall of Death instead, how does this change whether your target is a normal unit or an invisible unit?
When a unit is forced to snap shoot (many examples), Template weapons can still Wall of Death in the Overwatch phase. Why would it be any different? They are Snap Shooting already.


I fully agree with it being a shooting attack, an example of an auto-hit shot could be Eldar Mandiblasters, and that the Template weapon never fires a "snap shot".

But when a unit fires Overwatch, it fires Snap shots only. Template weapons can Wall of Death. Why are we saying that having to Snap Shoot when you are Snap Shooting already suddenly changes that?
The only way you would counter that train of logical thought is if you could prove to me that Units firing Overwatch do not Snap Shoot. And apart from a Special Rule doing so, i cannont think of it as a "general ruling"

Auto hitting weapons auto hitted in 6th when snap firing, but they still couldn't target Swooping FMC's or Zooming Flyers. This leads to a grey area (outside invisibility remit) of what exactly do GW think ' Only resolved as snap shots' mean, for example, a none snap shooting attack (Immoteks lightning) can hit Swoopers/ Zoomers this is probably because a roll of 6 to cause an effect is required, they have not conveyed these rules over either edition well.

And again the problem I have is its just ignoring the invis rule. WoD instead of Snap shooting for overwatch - fine the rules say you can do that, but WoD is there specifically for circumventing the overwatch restriction, and does not mention the Invis restriction, which in the end you are still bound by.

Always the case for overwatch, except template weapons which WoD instead of snap firing.

And you say they are still snap shooting! I've provided 3 separate quotes saying templates can not snap fire, and another saying if it's not using BS it can not be snap fired. The argument against is overwatch is snap shots, except templates have a rule that says they can't snap shoot, so they can do this as a overwatch attack.

I am tired now, if you want to debate (with me) as a polite note please start using actual rules, or let me know its how you think it should be played. It's OK saying 'think of it this way' but your example contradicts rules I've already posted while offering none. I am not particular on either side, my armies have no way of gaining Invisibility rule, closest I have is Deathleaper on the odd occasion I decide to use him. yes invisability is powerful, lets not forget WoD is statistically miles ahead of other overwatch attacks.

Much the same with the DL thread -> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/601642.page

Still waiting for a rule that states the Snap Shot requirement from Invisibility stacks on top of the Snap Shot requirement from Overwatch.

And automatic hits, hit invisible units automatically, thats basic english for "Automatically hit" such as nova powers.

Therefore there is prescedence that "automatically hitting' bypasses Invisibility.

 Nem wrote:
Auto hitting weapons auto hitted in 6th when snap firing, but they still couldn't target Swooping FMC's or Zooming Flyers. This leads to a grey area (outside invisibility remit) of what exactly do GW think ' Only resolved as snap shots' mean, for example, a none snap shooting attack (Immoteks lightning) can hit Swoopers/ Zoomers this is probably because a roll of 6 to cause an effect is required, they have not conveyed these rules over either edition well.

As you have said with Novas, the trend seems to have changed that way of thinking, but indeed, personal opinion rather than a RaW that says so.

 Nem wrote:
And again the problem I have is its just ignoring the invis rule. WoD instead of Snap shooting for overwatch - fine the rules say you can do that, but WoD is there specifically for circumventing the overwatch restriction, and does not mention the Invis restriction, which in the end you are still bound by.

My answer to that is: Are you no longer in Overwatch then?
Because i fully agree with the "WoD instead of Snap shooting for overwatch - fine the rules say you can do that" statement and that this statement does not change.
In a way, a BS 4 model is restricted to Snap Firing in Overwatch, and restricted to Snap Firing at Invis targets, and restricted to Snap Firing at Swooping MC, etc.
If a Swooping MC, with Invisibility charged a Unit that is Crew Shaken and Jinked last turn, then what is that Units' restriction?
It can only Snap Shoot. If it has a template weapon, the Wall of Death rule inflicts hits, because it is fired in overwatch. ("Template weapons can fire Overwatch, even though they cannot fire Snap Shots")

 Nem wrote:
Always the case for overwatch, except template weapons which WoD instead of snap firing.

And you say they are still snap shooting! I've provided 3 separate quotes saying templates can not snap fire, and another saying if it's not using BS it can not be snap fired. The argument against is overwatch is snap shots, except templates have a rule that says they can't snap shoot, so they can do this as a overwatch attack.

As much as i have insisted that WoD is performed during Overwatch, when all weapons are Snap Shooting, I will never agree to saying that the Template weapon is Snap Shooting.
The weapon is never Snap shooting, but it is allowed to inflict D3 Auto-hits when you fire in Overwatch.
Here is the Rule: "Any shots fired as Overwatch can only be fired as Snap Shots.Therefore, weapons and models that cannot fire Snap Shots cannot fire Overwatch."
The Wall of Death rule circumventing this specific Ruleset makes it clear: Invisibility (or Jink, or Swooping, etc) does not add a restriction to overwatch that is not already there.

 Nem wrote:
I am tired now, if you want to debate (with me) as a polite note please start using actual rules, or let me know its how you think it should be played. It's OK saying 'think of it this way' but your example contradicts rules I've already posted while offering none. I am not particular on either side, my armies have no way of gaining Invisibility rule, closest I have is Deathleaper on the odd occasion I decide to use him. yes invisability is powerful, lets not forget WoD is statistically miles ahead of other overwatch attacks.

Much the same with the DL thread -> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/601642.page

Had a skim through the old thread and all i can tell is that it will not go anywhere.....
So i will also retreat from the discussion and RaW argument. I've put forward my position based or RaW, and i guess that pretty much sums it up:

Eihnlazer wrote:
If your getting charged, WoD allows a flamer to inflict D3 automatic hits, no matter what is charging or what rules it has, since their is no model that has a special rule stating "This model is unaffected by WoD".

And that it is most definitively not a Snap Shot

not sure things that are flamers in the shooting phase are still firing templates in Overwatch as they are doing d3 hits instead.

Template weapons can fire Overwatch, even though they cannot fire Snap Shots.

Invisibility is a blessing that targets a single friendly unit within 24". Whilst the power is in effect, enemy units can only fire Snap Shots at the target unit and in close combat will only hit models in it on To Hit rolls of a 6.

RAW looks like you can fire template weapons using wall of death as wall of death specifically lets you overwatch despite a resriction of needing snap shots.

of course you couldn't use a template weapon on a non assaulting unit directly, even though in reality that would be the best way to target something invisible but whatever.

The auto hits bypasses the snapshot only anyway. If a blast template scatters onto an invisible unit, any models under the blast are auto-hit. Likewise, even in a regular shooting, if a flamed template targets a unit and the template ends up covering another units invisible models, that unit is still hit. Both examples don't do any kind of snapshot at all yet still score hits on an invisible unit. Wall of death doesn't target the unit directly either since it's assumed that the assaulting unit is moving through the area (see the wound allocation part where a template can wound and assaulting units models even if they are out of template range), so it's auto-hits trump invisibles snapshot requirement.

Part of the problem is that Invisibility says "can only fire Snap Shots..."

You never get to the automatically hit portion of Wall of Death. So the issue of "automatically hit" has absolutely no bearing on the discussion. If WoD allowed you to fire, then I would agree, it would hit an Invisible unit. However, exactly as in a shooting phase, which Overwatch follows the rules for except for the noted exceptions, Template weapons may not Snap Shot and therefore may not auto-hit an Invisible unit. The WoD rules state they are an exception to the "only Snap Shot" for Overwatch. It does not override the requirement that to even use the weapon against an invisible unit, it must make a Snap Shot.

It probably is fruitless to continue on with this thread, though.

You can only fire Snap Shots while overwatching in general though. Why would an Invisible unit, again get double Snap Shot protection?

WoD gives permission to overwatch, and iflicting D3 automatic hits. Automatic hits bypass Invsibility

Angelic wrote:
Part of the problem is that Invisibility says "can only fire Snap Shots..."

You never get to the automatically hit portion of Wall of Death. So the issue of "automatically hit" has absolutely no bearing on the discussion. If WoD allowed you to fire, then I would agree, it would hit an Invisible unit. However, exactly as in a shooting phase, which Overwatch follows the rules for except for the noted exceptions, Template weapons may not Snap Shot and therefore may not auto-hit an Invisible unit. The WoD rules state they are an exception to the "only Snap Shot" for Overwatch. It does not override the requirement that to even use the weapon against an invisible unit, it must make a Snap Shot.

It probably is fruitless to continue on with this thread, though.

Using this same logic the overwatch steps would look like this...

- Declare charge.
- Select weapon group for overwatch.
- Can't select Flamers because they are template weapons and can't Snap Shot.
- WoD never triggers due to above.

Obviously this is incorrect. WoD has to trigger for overwatch with flamers to work. And if WoD triggers then it causes automatic hits... and Invisibility does nothing to stop them.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
You can only fire Snap Shots while overwatching in general though. Why would an Invisible unit, again get double Snap Shot protection?

WoD gives permission to overwatch, and iflicting D3 automatic hits. Automatic hits bypass Invsibility

I have proven you worng on this point in multiple posts. Wall of Death is NOT a snap shot. Tell me. what must you do when firing at invisible units?

 extremefreak17 wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
You can only fire Snap Shots while overwatching in general though. Why would an Invisible unit, again get double Snap Shot protection?

WoD gives permission to overwatch, and iflicting D3 automatic hits. Automatic hits bypass Invsibility

I have proven you worng on this point in multiple posts. Wall of Death is NOT a snap shot. Tell me. what must you do when firing at invisible units?

Wall of Death is not a snap shot. But it does affect Invisible units as it does any other charger.

If a large blast scattered far enough and landed over an invisible unit, would you also argue then that they would take no hits from that either?

 Amiricle wrote:
If a large blast scattered far enough and landed over an invisible unit, would you also argue then that they would take no hits from that either?

You are not shooting at the invisible unit, so no.

 extremefreak17 wrote:

Ghaz wrote:

Fragile wrote:
It is not a Snap shot. The rule clearly states that it is not.

Then please quote where it says as much, because the rule clearly says that the Template weapon fire Overwatch and any shots fired as Overwatch can only be fired as Snap Shots.

DeathReaper wrote:

 extremefreak17 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
"Template weapons can fire Overwatch, even though they cannot fire Snap Shots. Instead, if a Template weapon fires Overwatch, it automatically inflicts D3 hits on the charging unit, resolved at its normal Strength and AP value." (Special Rules chapter, Template weapons section, Wall of Death Sub-section).

Everything you need to know is here: "Template weapons can fire Overwatch, even though they cannot fire Snap Shots. Instead, if a Template weapon fires Overwatch"

Template weapons can not fire snap shots, but they can Overwatch (Which are snap shots by default)

So in overwatch, even against an invisible unit, template weapons can fire overwatch and do so as per the rules of Wall of Death.

...(Which are snap shots by default)...

Do you have a rules quote to support this?

A template weapon inflicts D3 hits INSTEAD of making snap shots. The language in the Wall of Death rule supports this.

"Template weapons can fire Overwatch, even though they cannot fire Snap Shots."

"Instead, if a Template weapon fires Overwatch, it automatically inflicts D3 hits on the charging unit..."

Key word being instead, meaning in place of.

Overwatch is snapshots by default because the rules for Overwatch tell us that "Any shots fired as Overwatch can only be fired as Snap Shots." (The assault Phase chapter, Resolve Overwatch section).

Again I quote:

"Template weapons can fire Overwatch, even though they cannot fire Snap Shots. Instead, if a Template weapon fires Overwatch, it automatically inflicts D3 hits on the charging unit..."

INSTEAD of firing snap shots, flamers inflict D3 hits.
Do I need to define instead?

Jesus dude, this is why I hate playing against people like you. You're right, a flamer cannot fire snap shots. You know why? Because it's not shooting bullets or lasers.

Instead when a unit charges you, you squeeze the trigger and pour out promethium. The charging unit runs into it.

You're still allowed to overwatch with it but instead of snap shots, it's called wall of death. Because it's silly to call a flame a snap shot, which is a ballistic reference.

Why can a model with a gun, be allowed to fire at an invisible target, but all of a sudden the charging target can't be hurt from walking into a wall of super heated flame, that takes little to no effort to generate.

 extremefreak17 wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
You can only fire Snap Shots while overwatching in general though. Why would an Invisible unit, again get double Snap Shot protection?

WoD gives permission to overwatch, and iflicting D3 automatic hits. Automatic hits bypass Invsibility

I have proven you worng on this point in multiple posts. Wall of Death is NOT a snap shot. Tell me. what must you do when firing at invisible units?

No, you havent, not by any sense of the word. Wall of Death doesnt need to be a snap shot, it has permission to Overwatch per its rule.

I'm still waiting for you to post a rule where Invisibility overrides the rules of Overwatch, or that an invisible unit gets double snap shot protection.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 extremefreak17 wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
You can only fire Snap Shots while overwatching in general though. Why would an Invisible unit, again get double Snap Shot protection?

WoD gives permission to overwatch, and iflicting D3 automatic hits. Automatic hits bypass Invsibility

I have proven you worng on this point in multiple posts. Wall of Death is NOT a snap shot. Tell me. what must you do when firing at invisible units?

No, you havent, not by any sense of the word. Wall of Death doesnt need to be a snap shot, it has permission to Overwatch per its rule.

I'm still waiting for you to post a rule where Invisibility overrides the rules of Overwatch, or that an invisible unit gets double snap shot protection.

PG 13 BRB, Black box in the bottom right, last paragraph. I have already given the page reference for this above, but I guess i'll have to type it out for you.

"Where advanced rules apply to a specific model, they always override any contradicting basic rules"

Overwatch a the basic rule, as it applies to all models in the game. Invisibility is an Advanced rule as it only applies to specific models. (This is defined in the two paragraphs above the last one).



Also as I have said above, it is two separate restrictions from two independent rules. They don't need to "stack," they co-exist independently. Stacking would imply that you would need to roll a 6, and then a further 6 to hit with your snap shot. Both restrictions have been granted permission to exist by their respective rules. We don't need permission for two restrictions to exist at the same time when they already have permission individually.

Except Wall of Death is an Advanced rule, Page 13 doesnt apply. Please post a rule where Invisbility overrides Automatic hits from the Wall of Death rule. They are both advanced rules

Overwatch allows flamers to use Wall of Death, wall of death inflicts automatic hits per its rule rolling D3 hits, no hit rolls required, nor is it meeting any of the criteria that Invisbility forbids, the flamer template is not targeting the Invisible unit, the Wall of Death rule is.

Please post rules where Invisbility prevents attacks that hit automatically that arent already outline in its restrictions (Blast markers and flamer templates)

And I believe mods are only allowed to redtext

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
And I believe mods are only allowed to redtext

I do not think that is one of the tenets of Dakka Dakka (I do not remember reading anything like that in the forum rules). I suppose I could be wrong though.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Except Wall of Death is an Advanced rule, Page 13 doesnt apply.

Yes, and Advanced rule that grants you permission to use a basic rule (Overwatch). You were commenting on Overwatch before, not WoD.

Either way you haven't addressed the yellow text. Is it your stance that two restrictions can not exist at the same time? If so, rules quote?

Just saw your edit.
Pg 198 BRB, under Invisibility.
"Whilst the power is in effect, enemy units can only fire Snap Shots at the target unit..."
Auto hits are not snap shots. If the firing model is unable to fire snap shots, it is restricted from firing at all.

 extremefreak17 wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Except Wall of Death is an Advanced rule, Page 13 doesnt apply.

Yes, and Advanced rule that grants you permission to use a basic rule (Overwatch). You were commenting on Overwatch before, not WoD.

Either way you haven't addressed the yellow text. Is it your stance that two restrictions can not exist at the same time? If so, rules quote?

Just saw your edit.
Pg 198 BRB, under Invisibility.
"Whilst the power is in effect, enemy units can only fire Snap Shots at the target unit..."
Auto hits are not snap shots.

Auto hits are auto hits, Invisbility does not prevent automatic hits.

WoD isnt making attack rolls its inflicting hits automatically.

A. No shots (snap or otherwise) at all are being made therefore the restriction of Invisibility doesnt apply

Pg 173.
Template weapons can fire Overwatch, eventhought hey cannot fire Snap Shots. Instead, if a template weapon fires Overwatch, It automatically inflicts D3 hits on the charging unit, resolved at its normal Strength and AP value"

No part of the Invisbility power negates the bolded part. Otherwise post a rule in which Invisible units are immune to attacks that dont make rolls to hit, except for noted exceptions (Blast makers/flamers)

Otherwise even blasts scattering onto Invisibile units wouldnt affect them. Which we know isnt true.

WoD isnt restricted from firing at all, its given permission to inflict D3 hits due to Overwatch being declared.

Seems we're on track for the merry go round that was the June thread about this same exact question

You are wrong. When a restriction is set forth, you need a SPECIFIC exception to override it. You would need a rule that specifically states "Wall of death can effect Invisible units." otherwise, the restriction from invisibility holds.
If you are not making any shots, or a shooting attack in general, what rules are you using to resolve the hits and wound from said attack? If it is not a shooting attack, then the hits would be meaningless anyway without a way of resolving.
Blasts can scatter on to an invisible unit and still generate hits because they are not shooting AT the invisible unit, they are shooting at the original target.

WrentheFaceless wrote:

Otherwise even blasts scattering onto Invisibile units wouldnt affect them. Which we know isnt true.

He has stated that he believes this to be true.

extremefreak17 wrote:

 Amiricle wrote:
If a large blast scattered far enough and landed over an invisible unit, would you also argue then that they would take no hits from that either?

You are not shooting at the invisible unit, so no.