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Gwaihirsbrother wrote: Regarding where are the women and children... I read an article about that where the men day they leave family behind hoping to be able to get then in the future and that the challenges and dangers of the journey makes bringing their family very risky. See that drowned boy for example. Not saying I agree with or accept that story (don't have enough info), but that is what is offered to explain the situation.
As opposed to the challenges and dangers of cutting out and leaving them behind in a warzone with a force that routinely decapitates people on a whim and sexually enslaves women?
Maybe they're leaving their families behind in Turkey, or Lebanon, or whatever the first stable safe country they arrive in is, NOT Syria.
Gwaihirsbrother wrote: Regarding where are the women and children... I read an article about that where the men day they leave family behind hoping to be able to get then in the future and that the challenges and dangers of the journey makes bringing their family very risky. See that drowned boy for example. Not saying I agree with or accept that story (don't have enough info), but that is what is offered to explain the situation.
As opposed to the challenges and dangers of cutting out and leaving them behind in a warzone with a force that routinely decapitates people on a whim and sexually enslaves women?
Maybe they're leaving their families behind in Turkey, or Lebanon, or whatever the first stable safe country they arrive in is, NOT Syria.
Then they aren't really "refugees" at that point, but rather economic migrants. Lets call a spade a spade here. I'd say a good majority of them are going to continue migrating north to countries that offer more welfare benefits, and the weak hearted politicians will do nothing to stem the tide.
Gwaihirsbrother wrote: Regarding where are the women and children... I read an article about that where the men day they leave family behind hoping to be able to get then in the future and that the challenges and dangers of the journey makes bringing their family very risky. See that drowned boy for example. Not saying I agree with or accept that story (don't have enough info), but that is what is offered to explain the situation.
As opposed to the challenges and dangers of cutting out and leaving them behind in a warzone with a force that routinely decapitates people on a whim and sexually enslaves women?
Maybe they're leaving their families behind in Turkey, or Lebanon, or whatever the first stable safe country they arrive in is, NOT Syria.
But then why aren't they sticking around in these stable countries where they might know the language or at least have some cultural commonalities? Or at least staying long enough to get enough $ scraped together to bring everyone? Seems like that would be much safer for women and children instead of leaving them behind.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
I agree, just pointing out that they're not necessarily leaving their families behind to die in Syria. Maybe they're already safe (which obviously means they're no longer refugees).
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: I agree, just pointing out that they're not necessarily leaving their families behind to die in Syria. Maybe they're already safe (which obviously means they're no longer refugees).
I think that's the exception, not the rule.
On a different note, I wonder how the welfare states like Sweden and Norway are going to financially deal with the huge influx of economic leaches, I mean migrants. Will their welfare systems hold, or will they fail?
Its not like what is happening with the islamification of the west is a new phenomenon . You only have to look back at how christianity wiped the pagan faiths out by the use of politicians and sympathizers pandering to them.
The sad part is people thinking that secular states won't be affected by another groups religion clawing back power over their lives, that countless people suffered and died for. We're heading back to the dark ages, albeit with better hygiene and technology.
Dropbear Victim wrote: Its not like what is happening with the islamification of the west is a new phenomenon . You only have to look back at how christianity wiped the pagan faiths out by the use of politicians and sympathizers pandering to them.
The sad part is people thinking that secular states won't be affected by another groups religion clawing back power over their lives, that countless people suffered and died for. We're heading back to the dark ages, albeit with better hygiene and technology.
something I've wondered about, is how the left will deal with the regression of rights in their secular countries. Take Gay marriage for example, how long until EU countries take in so many "refugees" that these rights get overturned or voted out of existence by hardcore religious immigrants.
so what will the left do? Protect the immigrants and continue to allow the facet to run full blast, or start limited the amount allowed to stay in country?
The big trick is balancing humanitarianism with pragmatism. How much do you do to help folks fleeing a warzone, and how much do you let them impact your nations' culture, laws etc. How do you get them to at least integrate and not get all insular and likely from there, aggressive? It i not a simple issue, and you have to also take human beings as separate case by case evaluations.
Now as for the OP aka ISIS/IL, just gotta love how the MIC can invent new bogeymen to justify their existence, the military based economy as well as them sucking so much of the tax bucks up at the feeding trough. While we see less tax payment from the billionaires and corporate tax cheaters, so we have less to fix safety nets here, and fix broken infrastructure, but always money for wars with concepts like drug abuse and terrorism. Concepts that used to be, BTW, Police matters.
"Your mumblings are awakening the sleeping Dragon, be wary when meddling the affairs of Dragons, for thou art tasty and go good with either ketchup or chocolate. "
Dragons fear nothing, if it acts up, we breath magic fire that turns them into marshmallow peeps. We leaguers only cry rivets!
I think that a thread where people are referred to as "leeches" and no one reacts is one that's well beyond the point of saving, but dumb as I am I'll try anyway.
Neoliberals have been dismissing the Nordic welfare model for decades, saying it's doomed and will never work. We're still around. Is this refugee crisis going to be a tough fix, with plenty of uncomfortable decisions? Hell yeah. Is it going to doom the country and transform us into an islamic theocracy? Only if you're using way more tinfoil than you should.
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
Breotan wrote: Apparently there is enough discontent in the land of cheese and chocolate that the Swiss version of a right-wing party was swept into office.
Breotan wrote: Apparently there is enough discontent in the land of cheese and chocolate that the Swiss version of a right-wing party was swept into office.
With ISIS? They're going after them?
Or, is this immigration related?
Immigration related I guess.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/19 15:25:54
A little of both. On the last page, I posted an article about how some middle-east immigrants are painting death threat graffiti in Sweden, claiming to be ISIS affiliated, and to have established a European caliphate.
Breotan wrote: A little of both. On the last page, I posted an article about how some middle-east immigrants are painting death threat graffiti in Sweden, claiming to be ISIS affiliated, and to have established a European caliphate.
Remind me of those childs claiming the entire beach for themselves to make room for their puny and fragile sand castle.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/19 15:33:56
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Meh, for people who live in the US they're fairly close.
It would be like driving from NY to Key West.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
IDK, we drove a lot when I was a kid.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Co'tor Shas wrote: Switzerland isn't even that close to Sweden. It's squshed between Germany, France and Italy..
So, you're saying the Swiss don't hear about what is happening in countries around or near them and take notice?
There's a video that's surfaced online that apparently takes place near Bern.... IF that video is correct (big keyword being if), then it would seem that the Swiss have their own issues to deal with, as do the Swedes.
I think many places in Europe are having issues these days. It's all well and good to have a generous immigration policy, but those immigrants need to assimilate into, not undermine the country/society they move to.
Dropbear Victim wrote: Its not like what is happening with the islamification of the west is a new phenomenon . You only have to look back at how christianity wiped the pagan faiths out by the use of politicians and sympathizers pandering to them.
The sad part is people thinking that secular states won't be affected by another groups religion clawing back power over their lives, that countless people suffered and died for. We're heading back to the dark ages, albeit with better hygiene and technology.
something I've wondered about, is how the left will deal with the regression of rights in their secular countries. Take Gay marriage for example, how long until EU countries take in so many "refugees" that these rights get overturned or voted out of existence by hardcore religious immigrants.
so what will the left do? Protect the immigrants and continue to allow the facet to run full blast, or start limited the amount allowed to stay in country?
On one level I agree with you - I don't think different races and cultures always integrate that well, people tend to stick with their own 'tribe'.
However, I do think that the modern liberal state acts as something of an equalizer and that subsequent generations of immigrants, regardless of their country of origin, will start to pick up Western/liberal values and result in a dilution of the more extreme elements of their culture. It's something I've seen in person a great deal, having close friends that are 2nd/3rd generation immigrants (from Indian/Pakistani, West Indian and Chinese heritage) and that have had a remarkably similar youth and lifestyle to my own (as what you could call a standard caucasian/English upbringing). You can see this in a lot of the music/art that comes out of the ethnic minority centres in the UK, films like East is East etc where you get a fusion of the 'native' and immigrant culture.
What I will say is that even over the past 20-30 years, as the UK has behaved more and more like a right-wing (and less liberal) state, with erosion of social welfare, a widening gap between rich and poor, and an aggressive foreign policy (I think the war in Iraq was instrumental in building walls between Muslim/Christian-centric culture) then some of the more extreme elements of ethnic groups have been allowed to get a foot-hold and gain adherents.
So, I blame successive policies by our government, rather than the people that have migrated to our country. Those people are here now, we can't push them over the border and into the sea, and tolerance and inclusive policy is the way to go rather than aggresive clamp-downs on personal freedoms or giving any reason for those people to feel alienated from their own government.
God-knows what we can do now with the situation in the Middle East and ISIS. I remember a quote from one US General at the end of the 2nd Iraqi war, saying that with the decisions that were made concerning governance of the state, economy and military/civil service meant that we could see 20 years of further civil war and unrest. I think it might quite easily turn out that he was optimistic with that prediction.
The Russian Air Force has carried out 81 sorties hitting 263 Islamic State (IS) targets in two days in Syria, the Defense Ministry said in a statement.
If IS indeed turns out to be behind the crash of the airliner (which is not at all certain), they will probably get some more attention from Russian bombers.
And yes, the so-called moderates (moderate in what?) usually just tend to be a different brand of radical islamism than IS. It is pretty much become a religious conflict of the Sunnite majority of Syria against the Shi'ite and Alevite minorities, and of different Sunnite sects against each other.
Russia has mainly been targeting "moderate" () rebels, not ISIS.
ISIS blows up Russian passenger jet.
Has ISIS just committed suicide?
Nope.
Russia is targeting groups posing the most threat to Assad and his/their bases. The groups in that AO happen to be 'other than DaIsh' at this point. As they expand their AO they'll eventually run into DaIsh forces and hit them too.
Of course, from a capability perspective they are already starting to decline, they just don't have the logistical assets to keep up the maintenance and supply requirements to maintain their sortie generation rate, and we are seeing it decline to a level they can sustain for a bit longer. They may be able to surge for short periods, but that will cause a very big decrease in sortie generation after the surge period as they attempt to catch up on maintenance.
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
Of course, from a capability perspective they are already starting to decline, they just don't have the logistical assets to keep up the maintenance and supply requirements to maintain their sortie generation rate, and we are seeing it decline to a level they can sustain for a bit longer. They may be able to surge for short periods, but that will cause a very big decrease in sortie generation after the surge period as they attempt to catch up on maintenance.
Are you referring to Russia or ISIS with this comment? Like, are you saying the Russians can't keep up the assaults at the level they have been, or are you saying that ISIS is running out of steam fighting a war on too many fronts and can't keep making assaults at the level they have been.
Emperor's Eagles (undergoing Chapter reorganization)
Caledonian 95th (undergoing regimental reorganization)
Thousands Sons (undergoing Warband re--- wait, are any of my 40K armies playable?)
Russia. Air sortie generation and supporting forward deployed forces when they have to travel further than the neighboring country is not their strong point. They don't have the force structure or experience to do a lot more than they are doing, and that effort has taxed them quite a bit.
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
CptJake wrote: Russia. Air sortie generation and supporting forward deployed forces when they have to travel further than the neighboring country is not their strong point. They don't have the force structure or experience to do a lot more than they are doing, and that effort has taxed them quite a bit.
Thanks for clarifying.
Emperor's Eagles (undergoing Chapter reorganization)
Caledonian 95th (undergoing regimental reorganization)
Thousands Sons (undergoing Warband re--- wait, are any of my 40K armies playable?)
1500pt
2500pt 
Mordant 92nd 'Acid Dogs'
Inquisition
) rebels, not ISIS.
Emperor's Eagles (undergoing Chapter reorganization)
Caledonian 95th (undergoing regimental reorganization)