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2014/09/13 07:23:46
Subject: The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
I like how people say that we shouldn't think of Anita as a fraud just cause she collected 165k from ks to create 5 videos so far because we don't know her frame of mind at the time. But apparently they know the people who started this had misogyny on their frame of mind
My warmachine batrep & other misc stuff blog
http://sining83.blogspot.com/
2014/09/13 07:30:11
Subject: The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
Sining wrote: I like how people say that we shouldn't think of Anita as a fraud just cause she collected 165k from ks to create 5 videos so far because we don't know her frame of mind at the time.
I don't think you understand what "fraud" means. She promised videos and we're getting videos. The fact that you think she is being paid too much for making them doesn't mean that it's a fraud.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
2014/09/13 07:41:58
Subject: The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
Sining wrote: Because Phil fish and Ben kuchera are women
And guess who is getting most of the attention here.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
2014/09/13 07:44:46
Subject: The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
Valion wrote: I disagree. I believe it's an attempt to find object examples to show defiant journalists exactly how shoddy they're actually being. Because they do not believe there is anything at all wrong with what they do.
If that is the goal then why not go for something with more direct relevance to gaming journalism? Such as publishing ridiculously high scores for games that are obviously mediocre at best?
It takes time for movements to build steam.
This has been going on for years, if not decades. I seriously doubt that it's just taken 10-20 years for people to finally get tired of poor reviews.
Why are you so against the prospect of people finally demanding better games journalism?
Because the issue here seems to be less "game journalism needs to improve" and more of the same reflexive abuse thrown at any woman who certain people decide they don't like.
What? Sorry how. The what? Sorry but that doesn't make any sense.
O.o Have you read the articles. Yes because this is all about Zoe Quinn! Hey guys. It's zoe quinn! Yeah that game designer. Yeah. She totally is the reason why we are fight, we are totally fighting her because is the woman.
We are all sexists.
I hate women.
Oh whats that? She's slept with men! That evil wench!
What ever shall an Asexual male, such as myself do but complain. And attack everyone insight for being SJWs, because you know women are evil!
Oh yeah lets forget that most of my friends are girls. Lets forget all the supporters who are women. Because there are only white straight men in this movement. Lets completely forget my mother, and my sister. I totally hate woman. I just want to kill them all, and destroy the opposite gender.
If by now you are done with my sarcasm. Please don't call gamers misogynist. It makes misogynist look like a poorly used word. Its an insult. Not a term. You can use the word sexist. But no misgonyistic
Misogynist Means Woman hater. If you keep saying that it makes look like a poor word and a swear word.
It doesn't make you look smart, it makes you look stupid.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/13 07:49:43
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/09/13 07:53:40
Subject: The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
Peregrine wrote: If that is the goal then why not go for something with more direct relevance to gaming journalism? Such as publishing ridiculously high scores for games that are obviously mediocre at best?
That is certainly part of the conversation. It is considerably more difficult to prove that a publisher bribed journalists with advertising revenue or whatever else than it is to prove that journalists did not check their facts on a given story, however.
This has been going on for years, if not decades. I seriously doubt that it's just taken 10-20 years for people to finally get tired of poor reviews.
I have to wonder how much of this whole scene you're actually paying attention to. I get the impression that you read a few of the one-sided hit pieces sourced exclusively from Quinn, remembered gaming journalism of your youth, and waded in convinced you were fully armed with all the facts. Sites like Polygon, Kotaku, RPS..they don't exclusively do reviews. In fact, you could make an argument that those aren't even the bulk of the writing within games journalism anymore.
Because the issue here seems to be less "game journalism needs to improve" and more of the same reflexive abuse thrown at any woman who certain people decide they don't like.
Based on what? You extensive following of the hashtag and the conversations on Twitter? Or on your reading of the latest Vice article?
Oh god someone actually read that article?
I had to for the purposes of this thread. But dang was it painful.
Internet trolls harass female game designer.
Really? Really? The entire internet is out to get her? hahaha. Anonymous has not been involved in the matter yet if at all. So no.... The internet hasn't unveiled its greatest weapon.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/13 07:55:02
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/09/13 08:05:20
Subject: The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
Asherian Command wrote: O.o Have you read the articles. Yes because this is all about Zoe Quinn! Hey guys. It's zoe quinn! Yeah that game designer. Yeah. She totally is the reason why we are fight, we are totally fighting her because is the woman.
Yes, and why pick her? What has she done that is so much worse than everyone else that hasn't received anywhere near this much attention?
Rant.
Since I don't want to get banned again let's just leave it at this: you aren't doing your cause any favors by posting this kind of stuff. Whatever point you may have ever had is completely lost in the poor presentation.
Please don't call gamers misogynist.
Why? If you don't understand how certain loud and obnoxious elements of the gaming community have a problem with misogyny then I'm not really sure what to say to that, because you're obviously not living in the same world as the rest of us.
Misogynist Means Woman hater.
And "hate" is a pretty good description.
Image complaining about how there's no sexism in gaming.
And I'll take this as your concession that the real issues are "social justice warriors" and "feminism ruins everything", not honesty in gaming journalism. If this is really about corrupt reviewers giving out favorable reviews when they shouldn't then nothing in that picture should be even remotely relevant and you wouldn't post it.
(And of course everything in that image is just laughably wrong.)
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/09/13 08:06:02
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
2014/09/13 08:10:37
Subject: The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
Asherian Command wrote: O.o Have you read the articles. Yes because this is all about Zoe Quinn! Hey guys. It's zoe quinn! Yeah that game designer. Yeah. She totally is the reason why we are fight, we are totally fighting her because is the woman.
Yes, and why pick her? What has she done that is so much worse than everyone else that hasn't received anywhere near this much attention?
I think this kind of says it all. That either you can't recognise sarcasm or you're just willing to get ammo for your argument anyway you can even if you have to twist words and intention. To which I say good day sir/ma'am and good bye
My warmachine batrep & other misc stuff blog
http://sining83.blogspot.com/
2014/09/13 08:18:33
Subject: The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
H.B.M.C. wrote: And still people still think this is about Zoe/misogyny.
I am not saying it is for everybody, but after reading those quotes from Mechanical Crow, do you not agree that for him, the problem seems to be about social issues (whether this is misogyny or not, I will leave at one's appreciation, but when you whole stick is “I think journalists should shut up about the whole issue of women representation because the current status quo is perfectly fine with me”, you should expect this kind of reaction.) rather than about corruption?
Valion wrote: And like it or not, Sarkeesian and Quinn are perfectly legitimate targets of criticism. What's strange is the amount of protection they appear to get from a media more interested in pushing their agenda than getting a good story.
Zoe Quinn, maybe. Anita Sarkeesian? If you want to make this about social issues, and you disagree with her on those social issues, yes. But then give up the act that this is about video game journalism corruption. Because she is not linked to any kind of video game journalism corruption.
Is it just me, or is point 4 giving the finger to point 1 and 2? How the hell is this supposed to tell us this is not about social issues but about corruption when one point affirms so, but EVERY. OTHER. POINT. are about social issues?
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2014/09/13 09:21:40
Subject: Re:The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: Zoe Quinn, maybe. Anita Sarkeesian? If you want to make this about social issues, and you disagree with her on those social issues, yes. But then give up the act that this is about video game journalism corruption. Because she is not linked to any kind of video game journalism corruption.
Context is key (something Anita always manages to forget and/or remove). He's not saying Anita is a valid target of criticism as she relates to journalistic integrity, just that she's a valid target of criticism, period.
So, H.B.M.C., do you think that Gamergate is about video game journalist corruption, or about journalists mentioning social issues in their review, along with criticism of the medium such as Anita Sarkesiaan's ?
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2014/09/13 09:30:59
Subject: The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
You're doing that thing again Hybrid where you talk as if you're clueless as to what this is about. But, to humour you, I'll answer your question, even though I am 99% sure you already know the answer:
"[D]o you think that Gamergate is about video game journalist corruption, or about journalists mentioning social issues in their review, along with criticism of the medium such as Anita Sarkesiaan's?"
GamerGate is about journalistic integrity. Many articles fighting back against GamerGate, including the infamous 10 or so articles that all sprung up on the "usual suspect" websites (Polygon, Kotaku, etc.) within the space of 48 hours use "social equality" as a way of smearing those that support GamerGate to change it from "people who want journalistic integrity" to "sweaty misogonerds". It's also where the #notyourshield tag came from, as various minority groups (of all descriptions) pushed back against various media outlets, developers and those against GamerGate that were continuing to use them as an excuse to bash the supporters of GamerGate.
But again, you knew this already.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/13 09:32:58
Mechanical Crow would say it is about journalistic integrity too, but his idea of a lack of journalistic integrity really seems to be all about “criticizing the way female character are displayed”, and not at all about giving unfairly good review to game from certain companies. I am not asking you to quote someone else's word. I am asking for your own opinion. Pretending that everyone who consider himself part of the Gamergate movement all have the same idea about what this is about is obviously false. So, do you personally believe the problem is about video game journalists giving unfairly good review to game from certain companies? And if so, how about giving us examples rather than lambasting irrelevant “SJW”?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/13 09:57:25
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2014/09/13 11:26:07
Subject: The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
Exactly. This kind of thing. This is exactly what I was speaking about. How about we switch to speaking only about these kind of things? No more “the portrayal of female character in video games is perfectly fine”-like stuff, only “look at this conflict of interest”-like stuff.
Spoiler:
I am vegetarian too!
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2014/09/13 13:24:07
Subject: The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
Sining wrote: I like how people say that we shouldn't think of Anita as a fraud just cause she collected 165k from ks to create 5 videos so far because we don't know her frame of mind at the time.
I don't think you understand what "fraud" means. She promised videos and we're getting videos. The fact that you think she is being paid too much for making them doesn't mean that it's a fraud.
Since you brought it up, she claims it's a non profit charity, where did the money go? If you donated to a charity to find out the founded was keeping all the money, wouldn't you think the charity was a fraud and a scam?
Don't you find it odd, that people don't want to talk about her, yet you keep bringing her up. You are keeping the focus on her, just like the journalists are doing.
2014/09/13 20:44:24
Subject: The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2014/09/13 21:33:12
Subject: The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
That guy? I thought his name was something like Tim Fish.
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2014/09/13 21:38:31
Subject: The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2014/09/13 21:52:23
Subject: The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
But there is some new information on that post. Instead of focusing on my confusion what about you read those articles to continue the discussion and not take this thread off topic.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/09/13 21:53:03
Subject: Re:The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
