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So the problem with “video game journalist corruption” is once again not about the big producers giving advantages in exchange of good reviews, but only about the fact they do share some of my opinions on female representations in video games. Woah, such corruption, much tragedy, really terrible!

-.-

Yeah this thread I feel like won't go anywhere with that type of attitude.

Have you just ignored the information we have brought up to the table.

Or are you stuck in reverse?

Or are you trying to get this thread closed?

I am pretty sure this translate as “That image was actually problematic, and if people had not reacted to it, I would never have known”. Now was the reaction pedagogue enough? Apparently not. Should work on that. Still was a good thing .

Who cares about boob plates oh my god keep it to the other thread. Not this one.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
So the problem with “video game journalist corruption” is once again not about the big producers giving advantages in exchange of good reviews, but only about the fact they do share some of my opinions on female representations in video games. Woah, such corruption, much tragedy, really terrible!

It's comments like this that convince the rest of us that you're just trolling and trying to get the thread shut. 6 weeks into this only the dumbest or blindest people around still think what you've written above. I'm not going to call your dumb and/or blind, so I presume you know full well what you're doing, therefore you are trolling. Pure and simple.

Don't respond to perceived trolling. I mean Hybrid replying with his own logic is one thing, but I have no idea why if people think he's trolling or trying to get this thread closed, why do they keep replying to him. Dudes, just stop. If he needs attention for his views, just don't give it to him.

Also Hybrid, there's an even better place for your arguments than the other thread. It's called tumblr

Sining wrote:
This is a pretty interesting read on Gaming and the oppression olympics
https://archive.today/uOKyG

If by "interesting" you mean "wow, what a trainwreck". I mean really, if you're going to whine about SJWs and oppression olympics you should probably at least spend a few seconds looking up what "oppression olympics" means.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Who cares about boob plates oh my god keep it to the other thread. Not this one.

You know, it's funny how you only complain about "off topic" comments when it's someone you disagree with making them, not when someone on "your" side posts an article talking about how boob plates are totally justified and SJWs need to stop complaining about them.

PS: "keep this out of my thread" is censorship. It's amazing how such a devout anti-censorship crusader can be so strongly in favor of censorship when the thing being censored is something you don't like.

 Asherian Command wrote:
And clearly label whether it is an editorial

Every single thing game journalists publish is an editorial because the factual content of a game is little more than a list of hardware requirements and which platforms it will be released for. If a journalist says "nice graphics" it's an editorial. If a journalist says "has some balance issues" it's an editorial. If a journalist assigns a score to the game it's an editorial. So if 99.999999% of game journalism will be labeled "editorial" then what's the point of adding the label? This is like demanding that every bottle of water have a label saying "contents may be wet".

List personal biases.

Does that mean all biases, or just biases related to issues that you disagree with them about? For example, if a game journalist prefers to play melee classes over ranged classes should they make sure to announce that preference before commenting on balance issues in an RPG? Do they need to announce their preference for PC FPS games over console FPS games when talking about awkward controls in the latest console FPS?

They have lost so much.

Their images are destroyed and those that regarded them well have dwindled to bare bones. Barely able to aid them, because of the decisions they have made. It has been shown time and time again that they are colluding with each other and have purposefully biased each other and will continue to paint their consumers//readers as immoral bigots.

Really? Because I don't see all that much discussion of this subject elsewhere. Perhaps you're spending too much time talking to people who agree with you and confusing unanimous agreement among those people with widespread success outside of your group?

I think they biggest problem also is the mass censorship of those who speak out against. I.E. 4chan and reddit doing this massive wipe out.

Again, you still don't understand what censorship is. A private website saying "we don't want this here" is not censoring you. Every time you argue otherwise it just confirms that you feel entitled to use other people's property for your own benefit.

This movement like I thought it would, would have real consequences on those that dare to poke the angry beast.

IOW, you want there to be consequences for saying the wrong things. Isn't this exactly the same as what you just complained about the "censors" doing? Remember how many times you've accused feminists/SJWs/etc of trying to censor video games by hoping for financial consequences for people who publish games they don't approve of? How is this any different from you hoping for financial consequences for websites that post articles that you don't approve of?

You know, it's funny how you only complain about "off topic" comments when it's someone you disagree with making them, not when someone on "your" side posts an article talking about how boob plates are totally justified and SJWs need to stop complaining about them.

PS: "keep this out of my thread" is censorship. It's amazing how such a devout anti-censorship crusader can be so strongly in favor of censorship when the thing being censored is something you don't like.

umm no it is called being offtopic....

Tell me what does boob plates have to do with censorship?

Also tell me what does it have to d with gamergate?

In anyway?

None.

Absolutely nothing.

The door is behind Mr. Peregrine.

Does that mean all biases, or just biases related to issues that you disagree with them about? For example, if a game journalist prefers to play melee classes over ranged classes should they make sure to announce that preference before commenting on balance issues in an RPG? Do they need to announce their preference for PC FPS games over console FPS games when talking about awkward controls in the latest console FPS?

No!

Personal bias means listing whether you know the developer in a personal fashion.

Personal Bias not all biases.

Really? Because I don't see all that much discussion of this subject elsewhere. Perhaps you're spending too much time talking to people who agree with you and confusing unanimous agreement among those people with widespread success outside of your group?

Twitter, 8chan seem to disagree with you. There is lots of discussions of it. It just isn't here. Pull your head where ever it has been and open your eyes.

Again, you still don't understand what censorship is. A private website saying "we don't want this here" is not censoring you. Every time you argue otherwise it just confirms that you feel entitled to use other people's property for your own benefit.

Umm no. Because yet again, they weren't invited. In order for a forum to be private it needs to be invite or membership only.

If a moderator starts closing threads without the permission of the admin then that is censorship. Especially if the moderator does not agree with certain people.

OW, you want there to be consequences for saying the wrong things. Isn't this exactly the same as what you just complained about the "censors" doing? Remember how many times you've accused feminists/SJWs/etc of trying to censor video games by hoping for financial consequences for people who publish games they don't approve of? How is this any different from you hoping for financial consequences for websites that post articles that you don't approve of?

You are miss understanding me. They are suffering in their fanbase. And thus in their monetary gains.

This is a much different idea.

You are grabbing at straws now and all you have done is devalue your own argument.

The entire thing is that mostly the people in this the journalistic side, will have lost their influence over game developers. They no longer hold that choke hold on game designers like they used to. The Game's Media is broken now, and is seen as less than what it was before.

They are now simply ignored.

And that is a giant set forward.

This is a consequence for games media, for acting so rash against the people they say they represent.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Tell me what does boob plates have to do with censorship?

Also tell me what does it have to d with gamergate?

In anyway?

I don't know, perhaps you should ask yourself? You know, because you have posted arguments about how representation of women isn't an issue?

Personal bias means listing whether you know the developer in a personal fashion.

That's not a bias, that's a conflict of interest. Perhaps you should spend more time learning what words mean before making your demands?

Twitter, 8chan seem to disagree with you. There is lots of discussions of it. It just isn't here. Pull your head where ever it has been and open your eyes.

Again, you're missing the point. Twitter might have lots of discussions of it, but are those discussions reaching a "mainstream" audience or are they just the twitter version of this thread, where you have a few people going back and forth endlessly while everyone else ignores them? Volume of comments is not the same thing as success in presenting a message.

Umm no. Because yet again, they weren't invited. In order for a forum to be private it needs to be invite or membership only.

Only by your absurd rules. By the rules everyone else uses to define private property a forum is private if it is owned by a private entity (an individual or corporation). It is NOT public property just because the owner decides to be generous in granting access to it.

If a moderator starts closing threads without the permission of the admin then that is censorship. Especially if the moderator does not agree with certain people.

No, that is NOT censorship. Again, you do not have a right to post on someone else's forum, no matter how much you act like you're entitled to do so.

You are miss understanding me. They are suffering in their fanbase. And thus in their monetary gains.

And what do you think the "SJWs" you hate want to do? They want game developers to lose money and therefore make changes to their products. Or are you still operating under the delusion that "SJWs" are threatening government-imposed censorship rather than going after the developers' wallets?

The entire thing is that mostly the people in this the journalistic side, will have lost their influence over game developers. They no longer hold that choke hold on game designers like they used to. The Game's Media is broken now, and is seen as less than what it was before.

And this shows where you have absolutely no clue about the subject you're talking about. Game journalists have never had power over game developers. In fact, that's the reason why game journalism has been corrupt for so long: game journalists exist only as long as the game developers cooperate with them, which means that game journalists make staying on good terms with the developers their top priority. This is why even mediocre games get amazing reviews, because every reviewer knows that if the developer isn't happy with their review then they're not going to get access any more early copies of games to review.

They are now simply ignored.

Are they really? Or has your crusade simply diverted readers from certain websites to other websites where the same corruption will exist (as it always has) because nothing has been done about the fundamental problems that cause corruption? IOW, "meet the new boss, same as the old boss".

 Yonan wrote:
You're being proven wrong repeatedly about things on this issue.

I think you are mistaking “I think you are wrong” with “you are proven wrong”.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Who cares about boob plates oh my god keep it to the other thread. Not this one.

You do realize that YOU POSTED THE LINK TO THIS “SAVE THE BOOBPLATE” ARTICLE IN THIS VERY THREAD YOURSELF, right?
How very hypocrite. You are being hypocrite. You should stop, pause, and think about what you want. If you want no reference to how female characters are represented in games in this thread, you should get a little self-discipline and never again post anything related to this subject here. Even if it is also, in your mind, by some strange connection, linked to corruption in video game journalism. If you want to continue posting stuff about how female characters are represented in games, you should agree that people will answer to you on that.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Umm no. Because yet again, they weren't invited. In order for a forum to be private it needs to be invite or membership only.

Nope. For instance, DakkaDakka is a privately own forum. It is own by Yakface, who bought it. He can decide to forbid access to whoever he wants to, because he owns it, and there is nothing you can do about it. Nothing.
Have you read Dakka's rules?

Remember that posting content on this site (or any internet site, for that matter) is a privilege, NOT A RIGHT.

Emphasis is not even mine. Yeah, that is how much you are wrong on this one.

 Peregrine wrote:
And this shows where you have absolutely no clue about the subject you're talking about. Game journalists have never had power over game developers. In fact, that's the reason why game journalism has been corrupt for so long: game journalists exist only as long as the game developers cooperate with them, which means that game journalists make staying on good terms with the developers their top priority. This is why even mediocre games get amazing reviews, because every reviewer knows that if the developer isn't happy with their review then they're not going to get access any more early copies of games to review.

This is true for AAA games, but for indie games the power balance might be reversed.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Yonan wrote:
You're being proven wrong repeatedly about things on this issue.

I think you are mistaking “I think you are wrong” with “you are proven wrong”.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Who cares about boob plates oh my god keep it to the other thread. Not this one.

You do realize that YOU POSTED THE LINK TO THIS “SAVE THE BOOBPLATE” ARTICLE IN THIS VERY THREAD YOURSELF, right?
How very hypocrite. You are being hypocrite. You should stop, pause, and think about what you want. If you want no reference to how female characters are represented in games in this thread, you should get a little self-discipline and never again post anything related to this subject here. Even if it is also, in your mind, by some strange connection, linked to corruption in video game journalism. If you want to continue posting stuff about how female characters are represented in games, you should agree that people will answer to you on that.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Umm no. Because yet again, they weren't invited. In order for a forum to be private it needs to be invite or membership only.

Nope. For instance, DakkaDakka is a privately own forum. It is own by Yakface, who bought it. He can decide to forbid access to whoever he wants to, because he owns it, and there is nothing you can do about it. Nothing.
Have you read Dakka's rules?

Remember that posting content on this site (or any internet site, for that matter) is a privilege, NOT A RIGHT.

Emphasis is not even mine. Yeah, that is how much you are wrong on this one.

 Peregrine wrote:
And this shows where you have absolutely no clue about the subject you're talking about. Game journalists have never had power over game developers. In fact, that's the reason why game journalism has been corrupt for so long: game journalists exist only as long as the game developers cooperate with them, which means that game journalists make staying on good terms with the developers their top priority. This is why even mediocre games get amazing reviews, because every reviewer knows that if the developer isn't happy with their review then they're not going to get access any more early copies of games to review.

This is true for AAA games, but for indie games the power balance might be reversed.

Hmmm

I think you are making that up. Or you are confusing me with someone else.

Because thus far you are the only one in this thread has used that article at all.

I talked about it in the other thread.

And Hybrid don't kid yourself you have been proven wrong on several occassions whether you accept it or not.

How very hypocrite. You are being hypocrite. You should stop, pause, and think about what you want. If you want no reference to how female characters are represented in games in this thread, you should get a little self-discipline and never again post anything related to this subject here. Even if it is also, in your mind, by some strange connection, linked to corruption in video game journalism. If you want to continue posting stuff about how female characters are represented in games, you should agree that people will answer to you on that.

Now you are just getting desperate!

I have not posted anything about the boobplate. I have looked through and found nothing on it other than when I said. "I Like Boobs,"

On the other thread maybe. But not on this thread.

I don't think it is entirely relevant the to conversation.

Nope. For instance, DakkaDakka is a privately own forum. It is own by Yakface, who bought it. He can decide to forbid access to whoever he wants to, because he owns it, and there is nothing you can do about it. Nothing.
Have you read Dakka's rules?

Rule 2: Stay on Topic

After reading and posting at Dakka for awhile you may feel as though you have developed friendships with some, perhaps many, of the other posters and readers. This is probably one of the most rewarding parts of participating in a discussion area. It is only natural to occasionally want to share information with your friends that is "Off Topic" (i.e. not related to the subject matter of the forum you are in).

While it may at first seem harmless to post a bit about off topic (OT) subjects, it can become a slippery slope. If others join in on OT posts then soon everybody has sent the discussion threads on so many tangents that it is difficult to follow the original topic. Further, posting off topic essentially violates Rule #1. People come to Dakka looking for information related to the hobby. It is not polite to post off topic items frequently.

If you wish to discuss a topic that doesn't pertain to wargaming, it should be started in the "Off-Topic" forum.

Hey look you break this one all the time.

And I have said this multiple times to both you and Peregrine.

Also it is privately owned. but they have opened it up for discussions. They can't go along and close threads because they don't agree with them. They know if they did that they would lose membership because of that.

It is not a good idea to do that at all. Its a consequence.

If Yakface or legoburner ever did that their popularity would plummet like all who have done that before.

Emphasis is not even mine. Yeah, that is how much you are wrong on this one.

True, but that does not mean that you can't post your thoughts.

It says be kind in your arguments and don't attack others.

They cannot censor you because of your opinion. No matter how stupid it might be.

And this shows where you have absolutely no clue about the subject you're talking about. Game journalists have never had power over game developers. In fact, that's the reason why game journalism has been corrupt for so long: game journalists exist only as long as the game developers cooperate with them, which means that game journalists make staying on good terms with the developers their top priority. This is why even mediocre games get amazing reviews, because every reviewer knows that if the developer isn't happy with their review then they're not going to get access any more early copies of games to review.

Hahaha. No.

See the problem here is that you have no clue.

I work in the industry. Do you?

Sorry where is your experience? Have you worked with the games media hmmmm?

Do you actually work with these people? Do you see that they hold alot of power?

That a single bad review usually starts a whole storm?

The Media thinks they own this power and they did for a very long time.

But their grip has been loosening for the last few years.

And this is the straw that broke them. When they lost the trust of the viewership.

They need their viewers. But the viewers don't need them.

That's not a bias, that's a conflict of interest. Perhaps you should spend more time learning what words mean before making your demands?

Bias- prejudice in favor of or against one thing, person, or group compared with another, usually in a way considered to be unfair.

Conflict of interest- A conflict of interest (COI) is a situation occurring when an individual or organization is involved in multiple interests, one of which could possibly corrupt the motivation. The presence of a conflict of interest is independent of the occurrence of impropriety.

They seem quite comparable to me. Both are personal and can lead to shenigains.

I suggest you look up the words next time.

Again, you're missing the point. Twitter might have lots of discussions of it, but are those discussions reaching a "mainstream" audience or are they just the twitter version of this thread, where you have a few people going back and forth endlessly while everyone else ignores them? Volume of comments is not the same thing as success in presenting a message.

Yes because lets ignore the 1 million twitter posts about it!

Because that surely has reached the mainstream crowd and there hasn't been banners errected in certain areas of the internet.

Are they really? Or has your crusade simply diverted readers from certain websites to other websites where the same corruption will exist (as it always has) because nothing has been done about the fundamental problems that cause corruption? IOW, "meet the new boss, same as the old boss".

Crusade?

Ha. No. There has been policy changes there has been changes in the media. And those sights that were seen as corrupt are going down.

They are no longer this giant in the indie scene. Or in the Triple A scene anymore.

Lets take a look at the viewership of these sights.....



Wait what is that?

The sites that we want to hear from are getting more views because they actually follow journalistic ethics?

And are actual good people and not jerks?

Yes that is apart of life, we go to the places we like to go.

If you think that is bad.........

I don't think I have exclaimed and said that all journalists are evil. I said this particular group is.

this group has been horrible and should be down right ignored for the rest of your life.

But I am sure as hell not going to let them get money from anyone. Because their ethics are screwed up and they are not real journalists.

And because of that I hold disdain towards them.

They are nothing but pawns, who think they hold the power in the palms of their hands.

Also here ya go. If it so oh unimportant






This is extremely related O.o

 Asherian Command wrote:
I think you are making that up. Or you are confusing me with someone else.

Because thus far you are the only one in this thread has used that article at all.

I could not find where you used it (because 32+ pages), but I found this nonetheless:

 VorpalBunny74 wrote:
2) some journalists are trying to subtly (and not so subtly) influence game design and developer artistic choices. For example, http://orogion.deviantart.com/journal/Save-the-Boob-plate-380891149

 Asherian Command wrote:

Rule 2: Stay on Topic

After reading and posting at Dakka for awhile you may feel as though you have developed friendships with some, perhaps many, of the other posters and readers. This is probably one of the most rewarding parts of participating in a discussion area. It is only natural to occasionally want to share information with your friends that is "Off Topic" (i.e. not related to the subject matter of the forum you are in).

While it may at first seem harmless to post a bit about off topic (OT) subjects, it can become a slippery slope. If others join in on OT posts then soon everybody has sent the discussion threads on so many tangents that it is difficult to follow the original topic. Further, posting off topic essentially violates Rule #1. People come to Dakka looking for information related to the hobby. It is not polite to post off topic items frequently.

If you wish to discuss a topic that doesn't pertain to wargaming, it should be started in the "Off-Topic" forum.

Hey look you break this one all the time.

And I have said this multiple times to both you and Peregrine.

Whoah, how zealous are you to enforce this. On me and Peregrine. And how lenient do you become when it is someone else, including yourself (remember that picture? I highlighted the important parts for you).

Tell me this image was not about female character representation, I dare you.

Why exactly again did you not react when Vorpal Bunny posted the link I just commented on?

 Asherian Command wrote:
They can't go along and close threads because they don't agree with them. They know if they did that they would lose membership because of that.

They can do that. They would lose some membership if they did that, and maybe gain other memberships, depending on what they decided was unacceptable on DakkaDakka. And they already do. There are a number of issues that are not allowed to be discussed on DakkaDakka, and this is a good thing. Do not believe me? I can send you by PM some message I dare you to post, and I can guarantee they will get you banned soon enough.

 Asherian Command wrote:
They cannot censor you because of your opinion. No matter how stupid it might be.

They can. Maybe they will choose not to, maybe they will choose to. Up to them, really.

 Asherian Command wrote:
I work in the industry. Do you?

You may have heard about me, my name is Gabe Newell. Peregrine is actually John Carmack.
Do you know who else works in the industry? Phil Fish. And how much is Phil Fish relevant, even though he does work in the industry?

 Asherian Command wrote:
Bias- prejudice in favor of or against one thing, person, or group compared with another, usually in a way considered to be unfair.

Conflict of interest- A conflict of interest (COI) is a situation occurring when an individual or organization is involved in multiple interests, one of which could possibly corrupt the motivation. The presence of a conflict of interest is independent of the occurrence of impropriety.

You do not see the difference between prejudice and interest? Damn.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Yes because lets ignore the 1 million twitter posts about it!

One million twitter posts by one hundred users weight way less than one hundred thousand twitter posts made by one hundred thousand users.
And have you counted the anti-GG twitter posts too?

 Asherian Command wrote:
And those sights that were seen as corrupt are going down.

They are no longer this giant in the indie scene. Or in the Triple A scene anymore.

Lets take a look at the viewership of these sights.....

Sites?

 Asherian Command wrote:
The sites that we want to hear from are getting more views because they actually follow journalistic ethics?

Does that mean they have not yet reviewed a game from one of their roommates, or does that mean they do not get any kind of advantages from the big publishers, or does that mean they do not push for better representation of female character? Or maybe it means they start each and every article they write with “This is an editorial”?

 Asherian Command wrote:
They are nothing but pawns, who think they hold the power in the palms of their hands.

Pawn to whom? Because you just said they used to have power of the game makers. And obviously they were not pawn of the game consumers either in your narrative. Pawn of the terrible conspiracy of evil SJW?

Can this be all summed up as video game "journalists" have been proven to not represent the will of the people as much as they thought?

They then got all upset since their "fan-base" abandoned them as well as some of their meal-tickets.
All because they were exposed as just another part of advertising and did not typically represent the average gamer and their interests.
The main question with them is "What good are you to me then? Your integrity is compromised and you show no allegiance to the concept of what it is to be a gamer.".

The other part of this is other "special interest groups" I swear are just trying to position themselves in the power vacuum: "Listen to us and do as we say or we can hurt your game sales!"
It is possibly a logical growing pain of the era of social networks: centralized control of information by an "authority" can be mistrusted and may need to be actively circumvented.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
You do realize that YOU POSTED THE LINK TO THIS “SAVE THE BOOBPLATE” ARTICLE IN THIS VERY THREAD YOURSELF, right?
How very hypocrite. You are being hypocrite. You should stop, pause, and think about what you want. If you want no reference to how female characters are represented in games in this thread, you should get a little self-discipline and never again post anything related to this subject here. Even if it is also, in your mind, by some strange connection, linked to corruption in video game journalism. If you want to continue posting stuff about how female characters are represented in games, you should agree that people will answer to you on that.

Considering I posted the link (as you discovered) and not Asherian Command, are you going to apologize to him?

Also be warned Hybrid - the search for the hypocrite is always conducted by the narcissist

 Asherian Command wrote:
I have not posted anything about the boobplate.

No, you didn't, but someone on "your" side did. And yet you only criticized people on the other side for responding to it, not your "ally" who posted it originally. An outside observer might suspect that your definition of "off topic" depends much more on whether someone agrees with you than the content of their posts.

Also it is privately owned. but they have opened it up for discussions.

And your point is? Allowing certain people to post does NOT mean that they have any obligation to continue allowing those posts, or allow other people to post.

They can't go along and close threads because they don't agree with them.

Of course they can. Part of having a well-moderated forum is getting rid of inappropriate threads. For example, I think we can all agree that spam threads should be deleted. The only disagreement here is that you don't like the rules that certain forums are enforcing.

If Yakface or legoburner ever did that their popularity would plummet like all who have done that before.

Did you know that they lock plenty of threads they don't agree with? And yet here we are, on a popular forum that doesn't seem to have suffered any harm over those decisions.

Bias- prejudice in favor of or against one thing, person, or group compared with another, usually in a way considered to be unfair.

Conflict of interest- A conflict of interest (COI) is a situation occurring when an individual or organization is involved in multiple interests, one of which could possibly corrupt the motivation. The presence of a conflict of interest is independent of the occurrence of impropriety.

They seem quite comparable to me. Both are personal and can lead to shenigains.

 VorpalBunny74 wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
You do realize that YOU POSTED THE LINK TO THIS “SAVE THE BOOBPLATE” ARTICLE IN THIS VERY THREAD YOURSELF, right?
How very hypocrite. You are being hypocrite. You should stop, pause, and think about what you want. If you want no reference to how female characters are represented in games in this thread, you should get a little self-discipline and never again post anything related to this subject here. Even if it is also, in your mind, by some strange connection, linked to corruption in video game journalism. If you want to continue posting stuff about how female characters are represented in games, you should agree that people will answer to you on that.

Considering I posted the link (as you discovered) and not Asherian Command, are you going to apologize to him?

Also be warned Hybrid - the search for the hypocrite is always conducted by the narcissist

I think I addressed everyone in the thread when I said. no offtopicness.

If it has nothing to do with the conversation I will ignore it.

Before I bring in the sweet hammer of justice.

Seeing as this thread is quite getting lengthy.

Please refrain from posting any offtopicness on this thread.

If you so wish you can create your own thread for those matters or use the representation of women thread instead.

(I am addressing All of you buggers)


Also peregrine I can see what you are saying and we need more data but seeing how the advertisers from these websites are starting to pull away. I can safely say gamer gate is winning their cause. And ethics is being forced onto the journalists.

And this is not similar to the SJWs.

The SJWs are in it because they think they know what is right, subsquently so do we.

but here is the difference, WE play video games. We are in the industry. They are not.

They only jumped onto the bandwagon as soon as Zoe Quinn or Antia involved themselves or found themselves underattack.

They began white knighting for these peoples. What they are doing is far worse.

They are pulling influence in and attacking randomly.

Using miniorities as a shield for what they do.

Using whatever means to silence their opposition.

I will hear their opinion and I will take it into account as long as it is not filled with vile or hatred.

Which is common on the anti-gamer gate side, Like shesh, I got swarmed immediately when I pointed out that not all gamers were misogynists, and then I got told I hate women and that I hate minorities

If you really think our side is deplorable look at the other side.

The other side is trying to do their best to squash this to silence it, plugging their ears and yelling at themselves so they can't hear criticisms. There may be some haters, but it is not the entire movement.

You cannot generalize when you talk about a community.

If I made the comment all men are stupid morons who are also spankers on their offtime. That is insulting and hurts men. That is a generalization, and if I was a journalist that is a breach of ethical standards. If I am a feminist and I say that. That is even more of a cause of concern. because I am using my political background as leverage to appeal my idea.

 Asherian Command wrote:
I think I addressed everyone in the thread when I said. no offtopicness.

Why do you keep trying to censor people? Aren't you supposed to be the devout anti-censorship crusader?

 Peregrine wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
I think I addressed everyone in the thread when I said. no offtopicness.

Why do you keep trying to censor people? Aren't you supposed to be the devout anti-censorship crusader?

Its offtopic!

This is not the thread to discuss this Peregrine!

This about gamergate.

Not Boobplates.

As far as I can see that has nothing to do with gamergate.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Its offtopic!

This is not the thread to discuss this Peregrine!

This about gamergate.

Not Boobplates.

As far as I can see that has nothing to do with gamergate.

So, let me get this straight:

websiteyoudon'tlike.com says "no discussion of gamergate" and locks/deletes any attempts to discuss it = censorship.

"SJWs" say "this is not appropriate, stop putting it into your games" = censorship.

You say "this is off-topic, stop talking about it here" = not censorship.

I think everyone but you can see how this is not exactly a consistent position to hold. Perhaps, before labeling everything as censorship, you should consider how that label could apply to your own actions?

Locking/deleting all threads about a subject, and asking someone to post in the correct thread about a subject, are not even slightly the same thing.

Just saying, and I have no bone to pick with this situation, but also, offtopic stuff is generally against the rules for this actual forum isn't it?

 MrDwhitey wrote:
Locking/deleting all threads about a subject, and asking someone to post in the correct thread about a subject, are not even slightly the same thing.

No, they're exactly the same thing. In both cases people are being told "take this discussion elsewhere". The only difference is that one is something Asherian Command approves of, while one is done by people that he disagrees with.

Just saying, and I have no bone to pick with this situation, but also, offtopic stuff is generally against the rules for this actual forum isn't it?

And a forum with a "no gamergate topics" rule is just enforcing their rules.

No, they're not. That's pretty much it. One is the suppression of all speech on a forum about a subject, the other is merely posting it in the appropriate threads, or making your own for it. One allows discussion of it, one does not. Arguing that you can't bring up random gak in every single thread is frankly being petulant/Frazzled.

As for it being their rules, then fair does. As far as I can remember, Freedom of speech or whatever the hell laws people ascribe to don't generally apply on privately owned forums right?

 MrDwhitey wrote:
No, they're not. That's pretty much it. One is the suppression of all speech on a forum about a subject, the other is merely posting it in the appropriate threads, or making your own for it. One allows discussion of it, one does not. Arguing that you can't bring up random gak in every single thread is frankly being petulant/Frazzled.

Except Asherian Command's argument is that restricting speech to a less-appealing location (for example, your own personal blog instead of a more popular website) is censorship even though you're still free to speak. And yet he's still insisting that I take my speech elsewhere, where it might not have as much of an audience as it would in this thread.

(And just to clarify, I'm not opposed to rules about sticking to the topic. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of constantly labeling everything "censorship" and then doing the same things when it's something he doesn't approve of.)

As for it being their rules, then fair does. As far as I can remember, Freedom of speech or whatever the hell laws people ascribe to don't generally apply on privately owned forums right?

Exactly. The right to freedom of speech only applies to government interference, it does not in any way give you the right to use someone else's property to help you speak.

Except Asherian Command's argument is that restricting speech to a less-appealing location (for example, your own personal blog instead of a more popular website) is censorship even though you're still free to speak. And yet he's still insisting that I take my speech elsewhere, where it might not have as much of an audience as it would in this thread.

(And just to clarify, I'm not opposed to rules about sticking to the topic. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of constantly labeling everything "censorship" and then doing the same things when it's something he doesn't approve of.)

No I have not.

I am saying if someone makes a thread and it is deleted by a moderator without the permission of the admin, after they made a statement of. "You can discuss this."

Then that is censorship.

There is a big difference between censoring a single post than silence thousands upon thousands of posts.

Your argument is moot if there is no back-up, upon it. I agree with Dwhitey because he presents it in a manner that is respectful and well meaning.

This is a privately own forum, but it is not a dictatorship run only by the moderators. They cannot delete a thread because they disagree with it.

They can delete a thread if it is promoting hate speech and/or offtopicness has ensued. That is a rule here at dakka dakka.

There have been countless examples of people being banned for being insulting and rude to others.

Such as the famous dakknaut who yelled to the heavens. "BLAME THE VICTIM!"

Saying that you are trying to prove a point by going offtopic just makes your argument falter and wither and die.

This is again offtopic. So leave I will leave it at that. I swear I feel like I should just ask to close this thread.

I would say the context of the censorship, and the lengths it go to, would really need to be factored into judging whether it's good or not.

To clarify, I don't believe all censorship is a bad thing.

If what you say is factual, then it'd be more he's potentially using relatively sensible censorship rules to his advantage in maintaining a discussion on an issue. I wouldn't exactly consider it hypocritical considering the vast difference in censorship he's using in regards to what he's opposed to, but it is certainly amusing. Then I find most things amusing so...

I would much prefer it if everyone were to hold open, honest and willing to be "think the best" interpretations of others posts, but what the hell is the likelihood of that?

 Asherian Command wrote:
Before I bring in the sweet hammer of justice.

What?


Anyhow, it seems I will need to point it out to you every time a GamerGater posts something about female representation in video games, because you seem to be able to notice just fine when it is me or Peregrine answering to it, but you have a hard time noticing it when a GGer does it. Which is likely completely by chance.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Also peregrine I can see what you are saying and we need more data but seeing how the advertisers from these websites are starting to pull away. I can safely say gamer gate is winning their cause. And ethics is being forced onto the journalists.

Do you mean their coherent and completely clear demands?
Oh wait, each GGer have various undefined demand that most of the time do somehow overlap the demands of other GGers.

 Asherian Command wrote:
The SJWs are in it because they think they know what is right, subsquently so do we.

but here is the difference, WE play video games. We are in the industry. They are not.

I am pretty sure I play video games. Do you, Peregrine?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Asherian Command wrote:
I am saying if someone makes a thread and it is deleted by a moderator without the permission of the admin, after they made a statement of. "You can discuss this."

Then that is censorship.

No, that is abuse of power, and is solved quite efficiently by sending an email to the admin explaining this. It will however backfire badly if that was actually done with the permission of the admin.

Whilst I am fairly certain a good deal of so called "SJW's" only took part due to certain individuals, I find it laughable that would be the only reason for all of them. I'm going to bet that a good amount of people who consider themselves "Gamers" would also be "SJW's".

I am pretty sure I play video games. Do you, Peregrine?

Do categorize yourself as an SJW?

Do you wish to kill the world of video games because they disagree with your opinions?

Are you ill-researched and often find yourself calling people misogynists?

Do you mean their coherent and completely clear demands?
Oh wait, each GGer have various undefined demand that most of the time do somehow overlap the demands of other GGers.

Nope.

I mean that they need work. They aren't clear and he rarely capitilizes the first letter of a sentence.

He only asks or answers with a single sentence.

I commentate and give guidance. I do support the movement but that does not mean I agree with everything in it.

Just like how I am a chocolate lover but I don't like all chocolates.

I pick and choose which arguments I agree with, those that I don't I simply just disagree.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MrDwhitey wrote:
Whilst I am fairly certain a good deal of so called "SJW's" only took part due to certain individuals, I find it laughable that would be the only reason for all of them. I'm going to bet that a good amount of people who consider themselves "Gamers" would also be "SJW's".

'

It happens in every movement.

I think i have stated that before.

In every movement you have some stupid extremist.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MrDwhitey wrote:
I would say the context of the censorship, and the lengths it go to, would really need to be factored into judging whether it's good or not.

To clarify, I don't believe all censorship is a bad thing.

If what you say is factual, then it'd be more he's potentially using relatively sensible censorship rules to his advantage in maintaining a discussion on an issue. I wouldn't exactly consider it hypocritical considering the vast difference in censorship he's using in regards to what he's opposed to, but it is certainly amusing. Then I find most things amusing so...

I would much prefer it if everyone were to hold open, honest and willing to be "think the best" interpretations of others posts, but what the hell is the likelihood of that?

I agree. Censoring a bully or removing someones voice who is known to be rude, a jerk or trying to provoke people or trying to hurt others with their words are people who should be censored.

People do this all the time by muting another player or sqeuchling them.

But yes I listen to sensible arguments. not people who refuse to read everything and stay informed on the issue.

If you choose not to be informed do not come and commentate on this thread.

 Asherian Command wrote:
This is a privately own forum, but it is not a dictatorship run only by the moderators. They cannot delete a thread because they disagree with it.

Yes they can. And they do.

I swear I feel like I should just ask to close this thread.

IOW, "stop discussing something I don't like or I'll get the mods to censor this thread". If you don't like the contents of this thread then why not just stop participating in it? Why do you need to censor it for everyone else?

 Asherian Command wrote:
Do you wish to kill the world of video games because they disagree with your opinions?

No, of course I don't, and neither do the "SJWs" you hate. In fact, I think that most of those changes would be better for the world of video games. The only people talking about killing video games are people who have built careers around whining about how feminists hate men and want to destroy everything men like.

In every movement you have some stupid extremist.

And if you think that the criticism of games and gamers is "extremist" then you clearly haven't met the real extremists.

If you choose not to be informed do not come and commentate on this thread.

Oh hey, more censorship. Aren't you supposed to be opposed to censorship?

Could we leave the tit-for-tatting out of this?

I come to this thread to keep up to date on what is going on with Gamergate, not to read forum posters carrying on personal vendettas from multiple threads and trying to hit one another with "gotcha" posts.

Peregrine, we get it, you think you got one over on Asherian with the whole censorship thing. It was cute about a page ago, it is not cute now.

Why don't you guys take the other gak to PM and keep this thread open to developments regarding Gamergate? Because at this point a very interesting and formerly informative thread has degenerated into a slap fest between multiple users and it is becoming tiresome.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
Could we leave the tit-for-tatting out of this?

I come to this thread to keep up to date on what is going on with Gamergate, not to read forum posters carrying on personal vendettas from multiple threads and trying to hit one another with "gotcha" posts.

Peregrine, we get it, you think you got one over on Asherian with the whole censorship thing. It was cute about a page ago, it is not cute now.

Why don't you guys take the other gak to PM and keep this thread open to developments regarding Gamergate? Because at this point a very interesting and formerly informative thread has degenerated into a slap fest between multiple users and it is becoming tiresome.

Agreed. I have tried to get it back on topic though.

Ugh as far as I can see I am done with this thread because the two of them attack me like rabid dogs.

I feel for you situation, Asherian and have appreciated your efforts in this thread. Some members on here seem hell bent on causing it to be locked, though. Perhaps a mod can come in here and politely remind people to stay on topic without nuking the whole thing from orbit?

To be honest, I have been afraid of hitting the yellow triangle because I don't want the entire thread washed away for certain incessant off-topic postings, but it does appear to be approaching "lost cause" territory. :(

 Asherian Command wrote:
Do categorize yourself as an SJW?

I am not sure what the definition is even supposed to be. But I am pretty sure for some people, I am.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Do you wish to kill the world of video games because they disagree with your opinions?

No. And I doubt anybody does.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Are you ill-researched and often find yourself calling people misogynists?

I have been called ill-researched here, multiple times iirc, but I do not often call people misogynists.