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Not a rant but curious what the justification is for the increased strength on Space Wolves special CCWs.

I don't remember them being noted for making weapons any better than other Chapters.

 minigun762 wrote:
Not a rant but curious what the justification is for the increased strength on Space Wolves special CCWs.

I don't remember them being noted for making weapons any better than other Chapters.

because they have Wolf or Frost in the name!

 Exergy wrote:

 minigun762 wrote:
Not a rant but curious what the justification is for the increased strength on Space Wolves special CCWs.

I don't remember them being noted for making weapons any better than other Chapters.

because they have Wolf or Frost in the name!

Probably the most honest answer.

Game mechanics. They want SW to be choppier than other marines so they gave them superior weapons.

And made them pay extra for the higher strength.

Jefffar wrote:
And made them pay extra for the higher strength.

It's pretty minimal and a worthwhile choice in most situations.

That said, I'm more interested in the fluff justification. Superior materials maybe?

 minigun762 wrote:

Jefffar wrote:
And made them pay extra for the higher strength.

It's pretty minimal and a worthwhile choice in most situations.

That said, I'm more interested in the fluff justification. Superior materials maybe?

Runes, it's all just Runes...

Are they better than relic blades? I can't recall. +1 a over standard?

 PhillyT wrote:
Are they better than relic blades? I can't recall. +1 a over standard?

Yeah, so the Sword isn't as strong as a relic blade for example but you get an extra attack.

Frost weaponry, dispite their name, are made from the teeth of the Kracken. Hugely powerful and dangerous creatures native to Fenris. So the answer there is probably stronger/better material. Thus the +1 over a normal power sword or weapon. They pay extra points for it though, so its not like being +1 just because of the name change.

 Exergy wrote:

 minigun762 wrote:
Not a rant but curious what the justification is for the increased strength on Space Wolves special CCWs.

I don't remember them being noted for making weapons any better than other Chapters.

because they have Wolf or Frost in the name!

Just wait until the Blood Angels get their Blood weapons updated with even more Blood! Then we'll see who's the choppy one! BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD ANGELS!

Fluffwise, its because Frost Blades are made using a unique process. They're different from normal Power Weapons.

Wolf Claws, just superior craftsmanship.

Because Space Wolves make their own equipment and vehicles, that's why its so divergent. Other Chapters do also, but at the very least work with the Adeptas Mechanicus, who don't like anyone adapting or experimenting with standard designs. The Space Wolves however, don't care.

 Grey Knight Janitor wrote:
Because Space Wolves make their own equipment and vehicles, that's why its so divergent. Other Chapters do also, but at the very least work with the Adeptas Mechanicus, who don't like anyone adapting or experimenting with standard designs. The Space Wolves however, don't care.

Yo bro, I hear using Kraken teeth make your power sword easier to swing.

 Jayden63 wrote:
Frost weaponry, dispite their name, are made from the teeth of the Kracken. Hugely powerful and dangerous creatures native to Fenris. So the answer there is probably stronger/better material. Thus the +1 over a normal power sword or weapon. They pay extra points for it though, so its not like being +1 just because of the name change.

It says a lot about Imperial metallurgy that chitin or bone is stronger than their space steel.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Jayden63 wrote:
Frost weaponry, dispite their name, are made from the teeth of the Kracken. Hugely powerful and dangerous creatures native to Fenris. So the answer there is probably stronger/better material. Thus the +1 over a normal power sword or weapon. They pay extra points for it though, so its not like being +1 just because of the name change.

It says a lot about Imperial metallurgy that chitin or bone is stronger than their space steel.

Says more about those crazy monsters tbh.

Well, see, when frostblades were first conceptualised, they were a special kind of chainsword, with the teeth of the chainsword being made of kraken teeth, which are stated to be 'harder than adamantium'.

So that's why they're better - because the material is superior to the best that metallurgy can create, and they were chainswords because the kraken teeth are so hard (and, just as importantly, have a pre-honed edge) that they're not workable with mortal tools (presumably they used another kraken-tooth as a drill bit to create the fixings to attach them to the chain).

Then they introduced Frost Axes and Frost Mauls and threw the original fluff out of the window, so the only one with a proper Frostblade these days is Ragnar Blackmane:

 Guardsmen Bob wrote:


Just wait until the Blood Angels get their Blood weapons updated with even more Blood! Then we'll see who's the choppy one! BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD ANGELS!

Skullz for the throne of the Emperor!


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 minigun762 wrote:

Jefffar wrote:
And made them pay extra for the higher strength.

It's pretty minimal and a worthwhile choice in most situations.

That said, I'm more interested in the fluff justification. Superior materials maybe?

Sorcery.

The space wolves engage in sorcery that is forbidden by the codex principals that other chapters adhere to.


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 minigun762 wrote:
Not a rant but curious what the justification is for the increased strength on Space Wolves special CCWs.

In order to be SpaceMarines++ you need to have SM||Weapons++

Sorcery.

The space wolves engage in sorcery that is forbidden by the codex principals that other chapters adhere to.

ohh come now sorcery implies they use they warp. rune preissts simply tap into the power of Fenris, from thousands of light years away. totally not the same thing

Rune Priests are Sorcerers, they just don't (won't) admit it.

Love how everyone's ignored my actual explanation post in favour of making jokes about the fleers-from-vacuums.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Jayden63 wrote:
Frost weaponry, dispite their name, are made from the teeth of the Kracken. Hugely powerful and dangerous creatures native to Fenris. So the answer there is probably stronger/better material. Thus the +1 over a normal power sword or weapon. They pay extra points for it though, so its not like being +1 just because of the name change.

It says a lot about Imperial metallurgy that chitin or bone is stronger than their space steel.

Chitin and bone from a creature on a death world.
Nature is on a mix of meth and steroids on those sort of planets.

It's not that I ignored it, it's just that I thought it was pretty cut-and-dried, and needed no further comment...

... other than the fact that the kraken has got to be one hell of a fish if it has teeth stronger than adamantium...

*Or* the rest of the materials in the galaxy of 40K are so terribly crappy that a large fish tears through the pinnacle of armor like wet bread.

Its likely that Kraken bone structure has carbon nano-fibers in its make up. This would give it diamond hard teeth and bones.

Heck, blades made out of obsidian are far sharper than any razorblade we can currently make out of steel. They're just brittle.

BrianDavion wrote:

Sorcery.

The space wolves engage in sorcery that is forbidden by the codex principals that other chapters adhere to.

ohh come now sorcery implies they use they warp. rune preissts simply tap into the power of Fenris, from thousands of light years away. totally not the same thing

lol and thats the thing!

they use the warp better then most other chapters precisely because they dont think they are using the warp!


but yeah better materials + something to do with viking marines being awesome in close combat + because: WOLF! RUSS! RUNES!


*edit:

also many natural materials are far FAR superior to anything we can make, spider thread for example.

Does making a goat produce the spider silk count as manmade?

 Grey Templar wrote:
Its likely that Kraken bone structure has carbon nano-fibers in its make up. This would give it diamond hard teeth and bones.

Heck, blades made out of obsidian are far sharper than any razorblade we can currently make out of steel. They're just brittle.

and every eldar guardian and soldier is running around with a monomolecular edge blade, supposedly the sharpest material possible. CWE grow their weapons, DE manufacture them but both produce weapons with the highest level of sharpness. Yet do they ignore armor?

Similarly Fenris Kraken are no doubt not the only world in the imperium to have beasts with sharp teeth. Other chapters would go out and harvest teeth if it was such an advantage. If the teeth could only come from a beast on Fenris, the IoM would move some kraken babies to another world to increase the source.


The only solution is sorcery.


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 easysauce wrote:

also many natural materials are far FAR superior to anything we can make, spider thread for example.

It really depends on what you want to do with it.

Wood is stronger than steel per weight, but then so are a lot of fiber reinforced composites.(wood is a fiber reinforced composite too). The strongest/stiffest carbon/graphite/boron fiber composites make wood look like jello.

Spider silk is stronger than tensile steal, but so far we cannot create spider silk in industrial quantities nor can we bundle it together to make a suitable rope. Carbon nanotubes ARE something we can make, again not in industrial quantities, but they are much stronger than spider silk. Neither though seems to have any current applications. Piano wire seems to be strong enough for anything humans need do until we decide to build a space elevator.

Even once we do have nanotubes for a space elevator, it is likely we will use steel for the cabling on our construction cranes; due to cost, inspection, and repair.

 Exergy wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Its likely that Kraken bone structure has carbon nano-fibers in its make up. This would give it diamond hard teeth and bones.

Heck, blades made out of obsidian are far sharper than any razorblade we can currently make out of steel. They're just brittle.

and every eldar guardian and soldier is running around with a monomolecular edge blade, supposedly the sharpest material possible. CWE grow their weapons, DE manufacture them but both produce weapons with the highest level of sharpness. Yet do they ignore armor?

Similarly Fenris Kraken are no doubt not the only world in the imperium to have beasts with sharp teeth. Other chapters would go out and harvest teeth if it was such an advantage. If the teeth could only come from a beast on Fenris, the IoM would move some kraken babies to another world to increase the source.

Sharpness only gets you so far in 40k. Power weapons are so named because they're just that - they're powered. I don't have any codex on hand (I'm at work) right now, but I know that the normal description for power weapons mentions that they're basically 'sheathed' in various energy fields. So they're not just dependingon literal cutting power / sharpness, but they've got lasers going for them as well!

Why are the Space Wolf things better? Well, ignoring the "because choppy marines" stuff (which is frankly true) it's quite simple... The Kraken's teeth are, like many things created by natural animals, superior to man-made products. That makes them sharper / tougher / stronger than all other / most other blades. -Then-, with this advantage, they are given the power weapon treatment of playing host to crackling energy generators.

And to answer the question of why doesn't the Administration just take a bunch of baby Krackens and raise them to harvest for teeth to make better weapons, it could just be that maybe the teeth only become useful after the Kracken has reached a specific age, or had to have a specific diet of other Frensian wildlife, and/or at that point have become too stupidly dangerous to actually try to keep in captivity to harvest. I believe there is a pic of one in the SW codex. Its frightfully huge.

Its also possible that while not exactly able to be represented on the table top as they are available to anyone who can take a power weapon, but a true frost sword is probably a pretty rare item. Even if there were 100 of them, that's still a pretty small number compared to the number of SW and the long centuries that they serve.

Because they are Space Marines + 1.