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I did. And I was pointing out the sillyness of you not equating "I want to kill!" and "I want to kill Nazis!"

The latter is an example of when the former is ok.

So it is situationally ok to want to kill people.

So your statement "If you joined soley to kill people, then you are sick" is categorically false. Because you yourself admit that its ok to kill certain people.

I agree with that, it just clashes with your previous statement.

 thenoobbomb wrote:
Enjoying killing those bad people is bad.

To paraphrase Free Waterfall Sr.: No one enjoys killing, but if you have to do it, you may as well enjoy it.

 Grey Templar wrote:
I did. And I was pointing out the sillyness of you not equating "I want to kill!" and "I want to kill Nazis!"

The latter is an example of when the former is ok.

So it is situationally ok to want to kill people.

So your statement "If you joined soley to kill people, then you are sick" is categorically false. Because you yourself admit that its ok to kill certain people.

I agree with that, it just clashes with your previous statement.

You can reconcile it if you accept that Nazis aren't people...

 daedalus wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
I did. And I was pointing out the sillyness of you not equating "I want to kill!" and "I want to kill Nazis!"

The latter is an example of when the former is ok.

So it is situationally ok to want to kill people.

So your statement "If you joined soley to kill people, then you are sick" is categorically false. Because you yourself admit that its ok to kill certain people.

I agree with that, it just clashes with your previous statement.

You can reconcile it if you accept that Nazis aren't people...

Some just need killing...

As to OP: We're a violent species... if you want the good things in life and protect it. Sometimes, you and your collegues will have to fight for it.

 Grey Templar wrote:
I did. And I was pointing out the sillyness of you not equating "I want to kill!" and "I want to kill Nazis!"

The latter is an example of when the former is ok.

So it is situationally ok to want to kill people.

So your statement "If you joined soley to kill people, then you are sick" is categorically false. Because you yourself admit that its ok to kill certain people.

I agree with that, it just clashes with your previous statement.

I never said that is sick, just that it's bad.

It may be okay to kill certain people. Joining the military because you want to kill people = not good. You know why? Because wanting to kill is bad.


I'm probably contradicting myself here somewhere, as you'll gladly point out, but well.

 thenoobbomb wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
If you joined soley to kill people, then you are sick, if you did so for other reasons (job, money, benefits, serving country, ect.) than I don't see anything wrong.

What about all our grandfathers who joined up in WW2 to kill the evil Nazis? Pretty sure they weren't in it for the benefits. It was to protect their country and kill Nazis.

Were they "sick"?

Killing remains killing, no matter how bad said people are. Enjoying killing those bad people is bad.

Why? Why are you judge of what is good and bad?

A Roman would think you're an idiot.

 Grey Templar wrote:
I did. And I was pointing out the sillyness of you not equating "I want to kill!" and "I want to kill Nazis!"

The latter is an example of when the former is ok.

So it is situationally ok to want to kill people.

So your statement "If you joined soley to kill people, then you are sick" is categorically false. Because you yourself admit that its ok to kill certain people.

I agree with that, it just clashes with your previous statement.

No it doesn't. Joining solely for the point of killing, just killing, is wrong. There has to be some reasoning behind it. And killing nazis is a reason, because it will save thousands, if not millions of lives. Just killing means that you only want to kill. There is only one purpose, to kill. No reasoning behind it. It is OK to kill (I never said that was wrong), but killing for the point of killing is wrong. And the point of WWII was not to kill nazis, it was to defend our county and out allies.

 Frazzled wrote:

 thenoobbomb wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
If you joined soley to kill people, then you are sick, if you did so for other reasons (job, money, benefits, serving country, ect.) than I don't see anything wrong.

What about all our grandfathers who joined up in WW2 to kill the evil Nazis? Pretty sure they weren't in it for the benefits. It was to protect their country and kill Nazis.

Were they "sick"?

Killing remains killing, no matter how bad said people are. Enjoying killing those bad people is bad.

Why? Why are you judge of what is good and bad?

*sigh*

I find killing to be bad Better?



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
I did. And I was pointing out the sillyness of you not equating "I want to kill!" and "I want to kill Nazis!"

The latter is an example of when the former is ok.

So it is situationally ok to want to kill people.

So your statement "If you joined soley to kill people, then you are sick" is categorically false. Because you yourself admit that its ok to kill certain people.

I agree with that, it just clashes with your previous statement.

No it doesn't. Joining solely for the point of killing, just killing, is wrong. There has to be some reasoning behind it. And killing nazis is a reason, because it will save thousands, if not millions of lives. Just killing means that you only want to kill. There is only one purpose, to kill. No reasoning behind it. It is OK to kill (I never said that was wrong), but killing for the point of killing is wrong. And the point of WWII was not to kill nazis, it was to defend our county and out allies.

Exactly.

Is this a debate of Ender's Game?

Joining the military to kill (even if it's Nazis) is stupid and it shows that there is something wrong with you IMO.

Joining the military to stop National-Socialism and to free occupied countries and to protect your own country is a legitimate reason to join the military.

Sure, killing Nazis will stop the spread of National-Socialism and freeing occupied countries involves killing Nazis.

But the primary motivation makes a big difference. "I want to kill these people" is always a bad reason for joining the military and reflects poorly on that person, even if the killing has a good result. "I want to do something good" is always a good reason for joining the military, even if it means that you will end up killing other people.

That might not make sense to some people, but it's my opinion.

 LordofHats wrote:
I doubt most people join the military to kill people. Certainly, there are people who do want to join the military for that purpose, but that's why the military psych tests people and moth balls them if they fail certain points (a famous one being the occasional idiot who answers "yes" to 'will you kill your wife when you get back from deployment?').

Sure the military can't catch everyone with a messed up head, and there's probably a few psychos running around in the military, I think the more common motivations are an interest in civic duty, the benefits packages, or just not having anywhere else to go with one's life. Lots of reasons other than "kill the other guys."

First their is a difference between "kill" and "murder"...killing is justified or "approved by society"...would you be willing to kill an intruder in your home to protect your loved ones? if yes are you sick in the head then?...answer no its human nature to be willing to take anothers life, its how its handled..if you go to a foreign place to fight the enemy to protect your friends, family and neighbors at home then its totally accepted, but if you walk down the street in fatigues and start putting holes in people then yes your sick in the head.

Crimson Heretic wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:
I doubt most people join the military to kill people. Certainly, there are people who do want to join the military for that purpose, but that's why the military psych tests people and moth balls them if they fail certain points (a famous one being the occasional idiot who answers "yes" to 'will you kill your wife when you get back from deployment?').

Sure the military can't catch everyone with a messed up head, and there's probably a few psychos running around in the military, I think the more common motivations are an interest in civic duty, the benefits packages, or just not having anywhere else to go with one's life. Lots of reasons other than "kill the other guys."

First their is a difference between "kill" and "murder"...killing is justified or "approved by society"...would you be willing to kill an intruder in your home to protect your loved ones? if yes are you sick in the head then?...answer no its human nature to be willing to take anothers life, its how its handled..if you go to a foreign place to fight the enemy to protect your friends, family and neighbors at home then its totally accepted, but if you walk down the street in fatigues and start putting holes in people then yes your sick in the head.

It's not always easy to paint a black and white line.

What if someone slowly starts to take pleasure in killing, during the latter of your two 'acceptable' examples?

 Ashiraya wrote:

Crimson Heretic wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:
I doubt most people join the military to kill people. Certainly, there are people who do want to join the military for that purpose, but that's why the military psych tests people and moth balls them if they fail certain points (a famous one being the occasional idiot who answers "yes" to 'will you kill your wife when you get back from deployment?').

Sure the military can't catch everyone with a messed up head, and there's probably a few psychos running around in the military, I think the more common motivations are an interest in civic duty, the benefits packages, or just not having anywhere else to go with one's life. Lots of reasons other than "kill the other guys."

First their is a difference between "kill" and "murder"...killing is justified or "approved by society"...would you be willing to kill an intruder in your home to protect your loved ones? if yes are you sick in the head then?...answer no its human nature to be willing to take anothers life, its how its handled..if you go to a foreign place to fight the enemy to protect your friends, family and neighbors at home then its totally accepted, but if you walk down the street in fatigues and start putting holes in people then yes your sick in the head.

It's not always easy to paint a black and white line.

What if someone slowly starts to take pleasure in killing, during the latter of your two 'acceptable' examples?

 Platuan4th wrote:
To paraphrase Free Waterfall Sr.: No one enjoys killing, but if you have to do it, you may as well enjoy it.

People react to the act of killing in various ways to cope. Maybe that results in someone liking it too much and maybe that becomes a problem. A lot of soldiers struggle to adjust to daily life after living in combat conditions for a long period of time because they've adjusted themselves to being in combat. They need help to get through that, and unfortunately we don't always provide enough to suit their needs.

I know part of the requirement to join the marines is that you are insane and worship Chester Pully

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I know part of the requirement to join the marines is that you are insane and worship Chester Pully

That's "Chesty" Puller.

My fav qoute is:

“We’re surrounded. That simplifies the problem.”

and...

“Take me to the Brig. I want to see the “real Marines”. ”
- Major General Chesty Puller, USMC – while on a Battalion inspection.

So for my 1000th post I am going to climb up on my



Until you raise your right hand, take an oath, and back that oath up with your actions. STFU

The end.

 namiel wrote:
So for my 1000th post I am going to climb up on my



Until you raise your right hand, take an oath, and back that oath up with your actions. STFU

The end.

Huh? Wadda ya mean?

 namiel wrote:
So for my 1000th post I am going to climb up on my



Until you raise your right hand, take an oath, and back that oath up with your actions. STFU

The end.

Don't bother defending our right to say it if you don't like what we have to say

 thenoobbomb wrote:

 namiel wrote:
So for my 1000th post I am going to climb up on my



Until you raise your right hand, take an oath, and back that oath up with your actions. STFU

The end.

Huh? Wadda ya mean?

If you have no personal experiance as to who, what, where, when, why, and how of the military you have NO place to comment on it. Dirty civilians think they have a clue when all it is, is speculation and what they hear on the f'ing news. So if you havent been there/done that. Keep remarks to yourself and stay out of the conversation.

Those of you with an active page 2 or a dd214. Feel free to comment

<deleted joke in bad taste>

 namiel wrote:

If you have no personal experiance as to who, what, where, when, why, and how of the military you have NO place to comment on it. Dirty civilians think they have a clue when all it is, is speculation and what they hear on the f'ing news. So if you havent been there/done that. Keep remarks to yourself and stay out of the conversation.

Those of you with an active page 2 or a dd214. Feel free to comment

My Active Duty wife told me to pass on a message to you:

*ahem*

Shut the feth up, you're making the rest of us service members look bad.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 namiel wrote:

If you have no personal experiance as to who, what, where, when, why, and how of the military you have NO place to comment on it. Dirty civilians think they have a clue when all it is, is speculation and what they hear on the f'ing news. So if you havent been there/done that. Keep remarks to yourself and stay out of the conversation.

Those of you with an active page 2 or a dd214. Feel free to comment

My Active Duty wife told me to pass on a message to you:

*ahem*

Shut the feth up, you're making the rest of us service members look bad.

*ahem* "wookies to the kitchen"

 Sturmtruppen wrote:
Something which has been brought up by my friends and on another forum I frequent is this notion: that if you willingly join the military, an organisation where you are expected to kill your fellow human beings, and you are okay with that, then there is "something wrong with you".

What do we think? Is the will to kill a sign of possible mental issues?

A military, first and foremost, is about forestalling conflict and deterrence, if conflict has erupted, then it has failed its primary duty.

That said, there isn't anything inherently "mentally defective" about killing other human beings, it's something humans have done quite regularly since the beginning of our existence as a species in competition over resources and power, a conflict resolution method (not saying it's a good one, but it is). It's when killing is done for pleasure/sport/enjoyment that it's a sign of a mental issue, but killing in and of itself is not a sign of something being mentally wrong.

In addition, the overwhelmingly vast majority of soldiers will never even see combat, and even most of those that do won't kill someone or be killed.

Now, there are some arguments to be made that the military may not want/need particularly intelligent people outside the officer corps (as well as some arguments against that line of thinking), but in and of itself there's nothing stupid or mentally defective about joining the military.

That said, the military isn't for everyone either, even moreso than most of the corporate world, there's a lot of "make-work", ass kissing, ego-stroking, repeated boring tasks, and being told to "make do" that people have to deal with

I'd join for the excitement and the physical and mental testing. People think I'm crazy for that. People also think I'm crazy for snowboarding and playing paintball. People are crazy.

Idk, seems like the military would be the best place to have the people that thrill kill. At least it's against people sanctioned to be shot at in a war zone, and not a bunch of civvies that catch the person on a bad day.

 Necroshea wrote:
I'd join for the excitement and the physical and mental testing.

As long as you subscribe to the "2 out of 3 ain't bad" worldview, you wouldn't be dissappointed.

 namiel wrote:

 thenoobbomb wrote:

 namiel wrote:
So for my 1000th post I am going to climb up on my



Until you raise your right hand, take an oath, and back that oath up with your actions. STFU

The end.

Huh? Wadda ya mean?

If you have no personal experiance as to who, what, where, when, why, and how of the military you have NO place to comment on it. Dirty civilians think they have a clue when all it is, is speculation and what they hear on the f'ing news. So if you havent been there/done that. Keep remarks to yourself and stay out of the conversation.

Those of you with an active page 2 or a dd214. Feel free to comment

This is why people hate the military often. Im sorry, but just becaused you served does not mean you are inherantly better then someone. It does not give your opinions more weight or more gratidude and it should not give you a free pass to be a duece.
Im sorry, but this annoys me, Veterans should not be untouchable like so many think they are. They can be asses just like anyone else. And should be called out on it.

 namiel wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 namiel wrote:

If you have no personal experiance as to who, what, where, when, why, and how of the military you have NO place to comment on it. Dirty civilians think they have a clue when all it is, is speculation and what they hear on the f'ing news. So if you havent been there/done that. Keep remarks to yourself and stay out of the conversation.

Those of you with an active page 2 or a dd214. Feel free to comment

My Active Duty wife told me to pass on a message to you:

*ahem*

Shut the feth up, you're making the rest of us service members look bad.

*ahem* "wookies to the kitchen"

Yeah, that explains everything I need to know about you. Enjoy your yellow triangle of friendship and trip to the ignore list.

I thought that was pretty clear.

Remember when being in the military involved that 'honor' thing? Yeah, thanks for crapping all over that, namiel.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 namiel wrote:

 thenoobbomb wrote:

 namiel wrote:
So for my 1000th post I am going to climb up on my



Until you raise your right hand, take an oath, and back that oath up with your actions. STFU

The end.

Huh? Wadda ya mean?

If you have no personal experiance as to who, what, where, when, why, and how of the military you have NO place to comment on it. Dirty civilians think they have a clue when all it is, is speculation and what they hear on the f'ing news. So if you havent been there/done that. Keep remarks to yourself and stay out of the conversation.

Those of you with an active page 2 or a dd214. Feel free to comment

This is why people hate the military often. Im sorry, but just becaused you served does not mean you are inherantly better then someone. It does not give your opinions more weight or more gratidude and it should not give you a free pass to be a duece.
Im sorry, but this annoys me, Veterans should not be untouchable like so many think they are. They can be asses just like anyone else. And should be called out on it.

True that EXCEPT, if the thread itself is actually about why people would join the military. Then they are indeed more quallified to answer.

And no one asnwered MY question. WHat qualifies you to judge if wanting to kill Nazis is bad? In other cultures there would be no problem with that.