Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Exergy wrote:

 Barrywise wrote:


There's a formation of 5 Taloi that gives them scout, I would hate to be facing that when they outflank...especially since they start with FnP.

Or just march them foward. They cannot charge from outflanking, so either fire turn 1, get really close and fire + charge turn 2
compared to arrive turn 2 or 3, possibly on the wrong board edge, shoot, but possibly have no targets in range, and then charge turn 3-4 if there is anything in range

 Barrywise wrote:

I would love to see the tantalus deepstruck in with a WWP.

The tantalus can DS anyway, if you really want somethign DSed, the WWP can do it without a vehicle.

How are you getting Talos into charge range turn 2?

How are you getting Talos into charge range turn 2?

With Scout?

A 6'' scout move is going to get you in charge range turn 2?

With our buffed splinter racks it is pretty disappointing that trueborn cant take shard carbines.

However, you can now put 9 Sslyth + archon (for LD) in a raider with splinter racks instead! 21 T5 wounds and 27 twin-linked poison shots!

 BlaxicanX wrote:
A 6'' scout move is going to get you in charge range turn 2?

Potentially, yes. That, or they are hugging the board edge, in which case you should be well on your way to winning anyway if you are playing any sort of objective based mission.

Question about reavers:

Lets say I were to take a unit of six with 2 blasters, 2 cluster caltrops, and an arena champ w/agonizer. Which models do i give the blasters and caltrops to? Would I want to give the arena champ one of each and then put the other two on another single model? Or maybe spread them throughout the unit?

I know this might not be the best loadout for the sqaud, but i am more or less trying to figure out which models to magnetize the upgrades to, and dont want to have to use magnets on every model.

Furthermore, Basters or heat lances?

I am very happy about the new book.

The Webway portal is pure win IMO. I am loving the new mandrakes as well for some ap4 action. As for AT the scourge seem to be the go to choice... 120 for 4 haywire blasters (just make sure you keep them alive!) They are better at killing tanks than any ravager would ever be! Take 2 or 3 of these units, and leave the ravagers at home.

I think that the new name of the game for DE will be reserve null deployment, with autarch Eldar support. I am thinking of a mantarch and then everything in reserve and hope to get the re roll reserves warlord trait on strategic or DE wlt table.
Then pounce on the enemy when they are allready all buffed up.

Lets say I were to take a unit of six with 2 blasters, 2 cluster caltrops, and an arena champ w/agonizer. Which models do i give the blasters and caltrops to? Would I want to give the arena champ one of each and then put the other two on another single model? Or maybe spread them throughout the unit?

Been thinking about the same thing myself. My gut says to stack them onto the same unit, and keep your cheap ablative wounds up front till you close in on them.

Furthermore, Basters or heat lances?

If you are think Caltrops, I would have to go with Heat Lances right? That would be my thinking anyway.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

Lets say I were to take a unit of six with 2 blasters, 2 cluster caltrops, and an arena champ w/agonizer. Which models do i give the blasters and caltrops to? Would I want to give the arena champ one of each and then put the other two on another single model? Or maybe spread them throughout the unit?

Been thinking about the same thing myself. My gut says to stack them onto the same unit, and keep your cheap ablative wounds up front till you close in on them.

Furthermore, Basters or heat lances?

If you are think Caltrops, I would have to go with Heat Lances right? That would be my thinking anyway.

Yeah i think stacking is better too, just wanted to be sure, before i take my tools to the plastic.

Still unsure of the heat lances. they are better against tanks inside of 9", but blasters are better against everything else.

If you're going to charge you want to be fairly close anyway- so hopefully within 9". I would say heat lances.

Got some ideas I'm toying around with, tell me what y'all think is best.

WWP Archon + 5 Dragons? Thinking this is good MSU tank-deletion unit.

WWP Archon + 5 Dragons + Exarch w/ Flamer? See above but can also add a few wounds to heavy infantry.

WWP Archon + 10 Dragons + Exarch? Very pricey but can delete any vehicle, mc, or heavy infantry easily.

WWP Archon + 5 Wraithguard or Scytheguard? T6 and can delete their respective vehicle or heavy infantry opponents.

What about a Farseer attached to any of these squads for that Inviz puts a lot of eggs in 1 basket though.

Add in some Beastpack goodness for my FA, since I'd be using Spiders in largely the same role as Scourges.

Note in all cases I treat DE HQs as just the minimum tax I gotta pay for tha No-Scatter DS.

Ideas? Comments?

Reavers are the bomb.
Took a unit of 12, for 252 points. That's 4D6 S6 rending hits on the charge, and you come with hit and run. Just hope for +1T combat drugs!
Don't bother with the gun upgrades, you'll be jinking constantly. Great spot for the Autarch on jet bike.

Scourge are awesome as well, can be a cheap throw away unit for tanking killing, or can try and hold back near 24" and peppering with haywire.

Shadowfield is 10 points more, but doesn't burn out until the end of the phase. If a lucky S4 hit gets through, I still get the 2++ against those Init 1 power fists (for that round).

Hellions... they're ok, but pale compared to reavers.

I was a naysayer to Reavers but, you bring up valid points. 252 pts for 4D6 S6 Rending HOW hits + another 8 S4 Rending HOW hits in addition to their other attacks + Hit and Run

Sounds like a mildy decent counter to that Inviz. Problem is how can they weather return hits without Farseer 4++ power or thsir own Inviz?

Biggest losers of the new Codex.

Archons, Loss of any access to ap 2, and the loss of the venom blade the Archon has been reduced to a WWP carrier or a tax to get the court.

Wyches, with the loss of haywire the wyches lose their only valid role

Wracks, with no way to make them troops they will suffer from heavy competition for the elits slot.

 extremefreak17 wrote:
Question about reavers:

Lets say I were to take a unit of six with 2 blasters, 2 cluster caltrops, and an arena champ w/agonizer. Which models do i give the blasters and caltrops to? Would I want to give the arena champ one of each and then put the other two on another single model? Or maybe spread them throughout the unit?

I don't think you can do that. The Champion can have caltrops (it says 'one model'), but not a special weapon (that says 'one Reaver'.)

Grotesques seems pretty cool now.

Instant death melee weapons.
Liquifier guns.
No longer go full moron.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

 jackflashultra wrote:
Just got done playing the new DE with my Chaos and I will say that there vehicles have gotten weaker with the loss of the Flicker Field, they did gain shroud though which is still annoying.

Aether Sails have changed as well, no more raiders BSing there way across the table first turn.

They have, what, a 36" Flat Out with Aether Sales now? That doesn't seem much different then before.

Also, I didn't see this at first, but Raiders and Venoms come stock with DS now, FWIW.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I really think stall tactics are going to be a very common thing for DE, now. Aim for second, and reserve, reserve, reserve. The longer you can wait, the better PfP is when you come on.

24" Flat out and yes it really is. Before they could use there aether sails in the movement phase, moving all of that 24 some-odd inchs and then flatting out for another 18". NOW there aether sails don't work in the movement phase. Meaning no extra movement in the movement phase, MEANING no bullshitting there way across the table turn 1

 extremefreak17 wrote:
With our buffed splinter racks it is pretty disappointing that trueborn cant take shard carbines.

However, you can now put 9 Sslyth + archon (for LD) in a raider with splinter racks instead! 21 T5 wounds and 27 twin-linked poison shots!

It's a moot point though because they increased the cost of the racks and the splinter canon by 5 points, so even had they been able to take carbines, after all the mounting costs you probably would have been able to take to splinter boats full of warriors which would through down the same fire power

 Exergy wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:


If your considering CWE allies then I would say warp in fire dragons. Some people like wraith guard more, but FD are cheaper and lets be honest, both units will be dead the turn after. Dragons are much better at AT and have a much smaller footprint meaning they are harder to prevent from coming in. If you want to have a shot at distorting a MC, take the WG. Either way also consider a shadow council of Shadow seers, being able to psishriek a different target then you shoot leans me toward FD's again as they can hit a high AV target while the Archons helm + a few psishrieks will drop any MC's or high value infantry out there.

Is there anything in CWE eldar that has split fire, because that could really make things interesting

 Red Corsair wrote:

On another note, I am thinking of fielding Barahoth +12 clawed fiends.
555pts for 40 T5 wounds.
On the assault they will poor out 72 S5 attacks plus barahoths 5 s4 ap3 attacks.
All with hit and run, should shred anything it looks at while being immune to tarpits!

Obvious counter are things with str10 or ID. Luckily it could outrun a bunch of grotesques

Well there is always going to be a counter unless you play primary CWE and use invisibility. I tend to prefer staying mostly DE even if it kneecaps the list some. Most s10 isn't a major issue, usually it is wraithknights which barahoth can tank the shooting for a turn while we should kill in our shooting phase pretty easily.

 Crimson wrote:

 extremefreak17 wrote:
Question about reavers:

Lets say I were to take a unit of six with 2 blasters, 2 cluster caltrops, and an arena champ w/agonizer. Which models do i give the blasters and caltrops to? Would I want to give the arena champ one of each and then put the other two on another single model? Or maybe spread them throughout the unit?

I don't think you can do that. The Champion can have caltrops (it says 'one model'), but not a special weapon (that says 'one Reaver'.)

Order of operations semantics. Just give a Reaver the lace and caltrops then make him a champ. Honestly I think the champ is a poor investment anyway. The sweet spot is 6 reavers IMO as well, Either go double heat lance and pop that annoying vehicle before vanishing or go double caltrop, in which case don't take a special, neither special is adding enough for the cost toward combats and you'll be jinking that close every turn anyway.

 jackflashultra wrote:

ShadarLogoth wrote:

 jackflashultra wrote:
Just got done playing the new DE with my Chaos and I will say that there vehicles have gotten weaker with the loss of the Flicker Field, they did gain shroud though which is still annoying.

Aether Sails have changed as well, no more raiders BSing there way across the table first turn.

They have, what, a 36" Flat Out with Aether Sales now? That doesn't seem much different then before.

Also, I didn't see this at first, but Raiders and Venoms come stock with DS now, FWIW.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I really think stall tactics are going to be a very common thing for DE, now. Aim for second, and reserve, reserve, reserve. The longer you can wait, the better PfP is when you come on.

24" Flat out and yes it really is. Before they could use there aether sails in the movement phase, moving all of that 24 some-odd inchs and then flatting out for another 18". NOW there aether sails don't work in the movement phase. Meaning no extra movement in the movement phase, MEANING no bullshitting there way across the table turn 1

He means now you can't have the best of both worlds and gain the movement while shooting.

Right?

 BlaxicanX wrote:
A 6'' scout move is going to get you in charge range turn 2?

24" appart
6" scout
6" turn 1 move
d6" run
6" turn 2 move
2d6" charge

 dan2026 wrote:
Grotesques seems pretty cool now.

Instant death melee weapons.
Liquifier guns.
No longer go full moron.

The lack of them killing themselves is nice, but at LD3 (4) you NEED a babysitter anyway or a simple tank shock will send them back into your deployment zone and honestly probably off the table.

 dan2026 wrote:
Grotesques seems pretty cool now.

Instant death melee weapons.
Liquifier guns.
No longer go full moron.

still they are leadership 4 and dont get fearless till turn 5.

in the coven list though, they get fearless on turn 2, which means you do not have to babysit

 Exergy wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
A 6'' scout move is going to get you in charge range turn 2?

24" appart
6" scout
6" turn 1 move
d6" run
6" turn 2 move
2d6" charge

Yea and with 5 MC's spread out it isn't like they can skirt around you easily, honestly you wouldn't want to be too far forward turn one depending on your opponent or they might jump over you. (looking at you waveserpents )

 Exergy wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
Grotesques seems pretty cool now.

Instant death melee weapons.
Liquifier guns.
No longer go full moron.

still they are leadership 4 and dont get fearless till turn 5.

in the coven list though, they get fearless on turn 2, which means you do not have to babysit

You will still need that tank however, one wraithknight can catch and kill that unit in a turn before they swing with prescience.

 extremefreak17 wrote:
With our buffed splinter racks it is pretty disappointing that trueborn cant take shard carbines.

However, you can now put 9 Sslyth + archon (for LD) in a raider with splinter racks instead! 21 T5 wounds and 27 twin-linked poison shots!

or 9 sslyth +1 Llamian

cheaper

 Exergy wrote:

 extremefreak17 wrote:
With our buffed splinter racks it is pretty disappointing that trueborn cant take shard carbines.

However, you can now put 9 Sslyth + archon (for LD) in a raider with splinter racks instead! 21 T5 wounds and 27 twin-linked poison shots!

or 9 sslyth +1 Llamian

cheaper

Well, not really since you need the archon to unlock it anyway, but it allows you to use the archons leadership/shadow field and most importantly WWP elsewhere.

I do agree though, this is an awesome build! I actually might prefer 2-3 llamians instead for their combat utility against high T targets.

 Red Corsair wrote:

Order of operations semantics. Just give a Reaver the lace and caltrops then make him a champ.

I don't think that is allowed, that's why they used different wording for different items. But this is an old rules argument; it is basically the same issue as with SM Apotecharies.

 Crimson wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

Order of operations semantics. Just give a Reaver the lace and caltrops then make him a champ.

I don't think that is allowed, that's why they used different wording for different items. But this is an old rules argument; it is basically the same issue as with SM Apotecharies.

Fair enough, I don't want to derail things with rules debates. I see your point, I still stand by mine that the arena champ is nowhere near worth it now that he can't take a venom blade. Its +35pts to get an arena champ with an agonizer, that's more then 2 reavers.

So I just got the Codex as I am really keen to start a Dark Eldar army (something about the hard armies that appeals to me, Tyranids, Orks, Dark Eldar..) and had a flick at the Ravager and couldn't find why it's bad. I understand Lances aren't that good for Vehicle popping but it's still a fast vehicle so couldn't it fire all of it's weapons when it moves more than 6inches?

Frozocrone wrote:
So I just got the Codex as I am really keen to start a Dark Eldar army (something about the hard armies that appeals to me, Tyranids, Orks, Dark Eldar..) and had a flick at the Ravager and couldn't find why it's bad. I understand Lances aren't that good for Vehicle popping but it's still a fast vehicle so couldn't it fire all of it's weapons when it moves more than 6inches?

it can fire all when it moves 6 or less.
it can fire 2 when it moves 6-12. the third it can snapshot

it use to have a special rue that let it fire all of them, but it got nerfed

Ooh Ok, don't have my BRB on me at this moment in time - so it looks like HS is obsolete then

Frozocrone wrote:
Ooh Ok, don't have my BRB on me at this moment in time - so it looks like HS is obsolete then

The forge world Reaper isnt a bad idea