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And then, the pure eldar open fire with the wave serpents, ignoring the cover save.

So much for being cool.

-Matt

Well you can't have everything. I don't think artillery can move and fire, but

I think you can put Maugen Ra , a Archon w/ a Webway Portal, and 3 D Cannon support battery into one squad and deep strike it then fire, as Maugen Ra has relentless?

see hollis thats the crap I've been talking about. I'm trying to NOT collect DE, and then you go make up a combo with my favorite eldar character, Mr. Ra, you keep this up and i won't be able to say no!!

Hollismason wrote:
Well you can't have everything. I don't think artillery can move and fire, but

I think you can put Maugen Ra , a Archon w/ a Webway Portal, and 3 D Cannon support battery into one squad and deep strike it then fire, as Maugen Ra has relentless?

Relentless doesn't transfer, which Mr. Ra has. Slow and Purposefully does transfer, but you can't get it.

See I thought it was the other way around, Oh wellthat is correct, I guess not :(. I don't think there's anyway to get it to work.

Like there's nothing that makes anyone slow and purposeful so...

So not 100% tactics related but it does affect the tactics I will use once my army is assembled. I noticed in the Wych box set it only gives you 1 of each set of wych weapon (1 pair of razorflails, one set of hydra gauntlets and 1 shardnet and impaler). Of course in a squad of 10 you can have 3 wych weapons in any combination. One of each just seems tedious so I'd want to stack 1 type in a squad.

So the questions is how are you guys equipping your wych squads? One of each? Saying screw you to stupid money gouging from GW (because that's what I see this lack of options in-box as) and don't run WYSIWYG or are you buying 3 boxes to equip 1 squad with three hydra gauntlets etc...

Since I'm not rich I'm thinking of doing one squad with razorflailsx3, 1 squad with hydra gauntletsx3 and my bloodbrides with shardnet and impalersx3.

I know wychs aren't terribly popular right now but what have you guys been doing for running them?

 Inevitable_Faith wrote:
So not 100% tactics related but it does affect the tactics I will use once my army is assembled. I noticed in the Wych box set it only gives you 1 of each set of wych weapon (1 pair of razorflails, one set of hydra gauntlets and 1 shardnet and impaler). Of course in a squad of 10 you can have 3 wych weapons in any combination. One of each just seems tedious so I'd want to stack 1 type in a squad.

So the questions is how are you guys equipping your wych squads? One of each? Saying screw you to stupid money gouging from GW (because that's what I see this lack of options in-box as) and don't run WYSIWYG or are you buying 3 boxes to equip 1 squad with three hydra gauntlets etc...

Since I'm not rich I'm thinking of doing one squad with razorflailsx3, 1 squad with hydra gauntletsx3 and my bloodbrides with shardnet and impalersx3.

I know wychs aren't terribly popular right now but what have you guys been doing for running them?

Go on ebay and buy the special weapons you want. They are probably $2 each but you get the ones you want.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So, everyone is talking about how wwp and wraithguard are the hotness. Which an ap2 flamer really is hot. But is it really that much better than medusa's sp3 flamer? The wraiths are much more survivable but the medusa can be put into a raider making them much more mobile. As it stands once the wraithgaurd flames their unit they have a hard time doing much of anything else. Whats more flamers coming out of a raider have a large area to be positioned where there is issue with the wraith guards getting to use all 5 flamers the turn they drop because of being deployed in a circle. Also because medusa are 25pts instead of 42pts you can take a few more which makes them deadlier to everything that is not sv2+

So the big question is, are their enough sv2+ units and are wraiths that much more survivable?

What sort of missiles would be best for a Razerwing?

I've currently fitted it with a Dark Lance for AA/AT duties, I'm thinking Monoscythe just to help my Scourges with light vehicles..

When you deepstrike in its considered combat speed right? Meaning the guys inside fire at full bs, right?

Can we ignore Wave Serpents for the sake of discussion? It's like a real life general discussing the strategy with his assisstants and one of them constantly goes "They will just nuke your army". For the love of God, there exist other units and other armies in the game that can be dealt with.

 CKO wrote:
When you deepstrike in its considered combat speed right? Meaning the guys inside fire at full bs, right?

Correct.

 HawaiiMatt wrote:
And then, the pure eldar open fire with the wave serpents, ignoring the cover save.

So much for being cool.

-Matt

This is just a silly point though. Nothing is cool if it's countered by the best codex using the best and most OP unit in the game? Come on, the conversation has to get past that.

It is a sad day when everything is compared to how well it survives against a Wave Serpent :(

Hoping for a FAQ soon! One can dream...

 lambsandlions wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
So, everyone is talking about how wwp and wraithguard are the hotness. Which an ap2 flamer really is hot. But is it really that much better than medusa's sp3 flamer? The wraiths are much more survivable but the medusa can be put into a raider making them much more mobile. As it stands once the wraithgaurd flames their unit they have a hard time doing much of anything else. Whats more flamers coming out of a raider have a large area to be positioned where there is issue with the wraith guards getting to use all 5 flamers the turn they drop because of being deployed in a circle. Also because medusa are 25pts instead of 42pts you can take a few more which makes them deadlier to everything that is not sv2+

So the big question is, are their enough sv2+ units and are wraiths that much more survivable?

Couldn't you DS the wraiths down in a raider with the archon? Does the WWP transfer onto the transport? I know it transfers onto his unit, and that the raider states it transfers onto the unit as well (but thats still with scatter), but I dont think the WWP words anything specific?

Solar Shock wrote:
Couldn't you DS the wraiths down in a raider with the archon? Does the WWP transfer onto the transport? I know it transfers onto his unit, and that the raider states it transfers onto the unit as well (but thats still with scatter), but I dont think the WWP words anything specific?

I don't think this works because the wraithguard are bulky. So a min squad of 5 would fill the raider and leave no room for the Archon.

 w0lfgang7 wrote:

Solar Shock wrote:
Couldn't you DS the wraiths down in a raider with the archon? Does the WWP transfer onto the transport? I know it transfers onto his unit, and that the raider states it transfers onto the unit as well (but thats still with scatter), but I dont think the WWP words anything specific?

I don't think this works because the wraithguard are bulky. So a min squad of 5 would fill the raider and leave no room for the Archon.

But, otherwise, it would work I think, but only with a Venom. The Archon himself can take a Venom as a dedicated transport, which then is part of his unit and so benefits from the WWP. However, at that point, you're paying 35pts for just for non-scatter (as a Venom can DS normally) which, on a model with such a small footprint, is not worth it, in my opinion.

 The Shadow wrote:

 w0lfgang7 wrote:

Solar Shock wrote:
Couldn't you DS the wraiths down in a raider with the archon? Does the WWP transfer onto the transport? I know it transfers onto his unit, and that the raider states it transfers onto the unit as well (but thats still with scatter), but I dont think the WWP words anything specific?

I don't think this works because the wraithguard are bulky. So a min squad of 5 would fill the raider and leave no room for the Archon.

But, otherwise, it would work I think, but only with a Venom. The Archon himself can take a Venom as a dedicated transport, which then is part of his unit and so benefits from the WWP. However, at that point, you're paying 35pts for just for non-scatter (as a Venom can DS normally) which, on a model with such a small footprint, is not worth it, in my opinion.

But the reason you want non-scatter, is for the wraithguard templates. But as someone mentioned, wrathguard are bulky; therefore 2 slots, so a min squad of 5 in a raider already fill it, leaving no room for the WWP archon. So in a venom this is obviously also a no go.

But yeh, the dedicated transport for the archon is sweet. 20 pts more than a WWP, so its whether you really need the non-scatter on the unit and how mobile you need them. Im not too keen on D-scythe wraiths the more I look at it. Someone else already mentioned a pretty good point in that the medusae' eye beam template is pretty damn effective, which means you could put them into the venom with the archon and have a pretty nasty mobile unit. Or in a raider with some sslyth for more shooting too.

I think the wraithcannons would be more effective than the D-sythes simply due to range, any opponent is going to realise how nasty a WWP'd D-sythe unit is and act accordingly; attempt to kite and ignore while dealing with the rest of the army, or focus them down immediately. Atleast with the wraithcannons your likely to still be able to shoot stuff and not have them chasing units all over the board.

The webway works on anything the character is embarked on and the unit he has joined.
You could go serpent + Archon + 5 wraithguard + 1 other model.

If you go with a Raider, you're only left with 9 spots open, and the Wraithguard take up 2 spots each.

 CKO wrote:
After reading everyones ideas especially hollismason, who pointed out some powerful unique traits that only Dark Eldar have. I am going to start a new Dark Eldar army for sure, this codex gets two thumbs up from me! At the moment I am thinking about making a durable Dark Eldar list! Durable and Dark Eldar normally are not in the same sentence but I really think it is possible with this new codex, and with Power of Pain you benefit for making a durable list.

The list I am thinking about using will have Cronos with Spirit Probes and Urien Rakarth to give units a 5+ feel no pain save on the first turn and a 4+ save after that. The Cronos unit and beastmasters units with Urien Rakarth will start on the field, the monstrous creature unit has 9 toughness 7 wounds, all with a 3+ armor save, and a 4+ feel no pain save that is extremely durable even wave serpent spam will cry out loud facing that.

Remember that if you want durable DE, you are going to be using coven units anyway and those start with 5+ FNP stock. Use the coven PFP and you get fearless turn 2, or turn 1 if you have a haemi.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 HawaiiMatt wrote:
The webway works on anything the character is embarked on and the unit he has joined.
You could go serpent + Archon + 5 wraithguard + 1 other model.

If you go with a Raider, you're only left with 9 spots open, and the Wraithguard take up 2 spots each.

Reason to take a tantalus!

 HawaiiMatt wrote:
The webway works on anything the character is embarked on and the unit he has joined.
You could go serpent + Archon + 5 wraithguard + 1 other model.

If you go with a Raider, you're only left with 9 spots open, and the Wraithguard take up 2 spots each.

With a serpent you have to unload your wraithgaurd every time you want to shoot, then get back into it next turn to move and wait one more turn to unload and shoot again.

 lambsandlions wrote:

 HawaiiMatt wrote:
The webway works on anything the character is embarked on and the unit he has joined.
You could go serpent + Archon + 5 wraithguard + 1 other model.

If you go with a Raider, you're only left with 9 spots open, and the Wraithguard take up 2 spots each.

With a serpent you have to unload your wraithgaurd every time you want to shoot, then get back into it next turn to move and wait one more turn to unload and shoot again.

I think the point is more that you get a Wave Serpent. The WG stay out in the open like they would anyway, and then the Wave Serpent goes off and does what it does best.

So this gentleman was brought to my attention.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/I/Irillyth-2.pdf


Yeah... I'm sure something can be done about that 12 inch Debuff with Dark Eldar.

Also it's not been brought up but the Archon is able to purchase a Venom as a Dedicated Transport, which is a pretty good vehicle.

Hollismason wrote:
So this gentleman was brought to my attention.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/I/Irillyth-2.pdf


Yeah... I'm sure something can be done about that 12 inch Debuff with Dark Eldar.

Also it's not been brought up but the Archon is able to purchase a Venom as a Dedicated Transport, which is a pretty good vehicle.

My Archon is going to ride in one. He's equipped with a Blaster and the Helm of Spite, so even though I'm well aware it's not an "optimal choice", he's still going to provide support to the rest of the army.

 lambsandlions wrote:

 Inevitable_Faith wrote:
So not 100% tactics related but it does affect the tactics I will use once my army is assembled. I noticed in the Wych box set it only gives you 1 of each set of wych weapon (1 pair of razorflails, one set of hydra gauntlets and 1 shardnet and impaler). Of course in a squad of 10 you can have 3 wych weapons in any combination. One of each just seems tedious so I'd want to stack 1 type in a squad.

So the questions is how are you guys equipping your wych squads? One of each? Saying screw you to stupid money gouging from GW (because that's what I see this lack of options in-box as) and don't run WYSIWYG or are you buying 3 boxes to equip 1 squad with three hydra gauntlets etc...

Since I'm not rich I'm thinking of doing one squad with razorflailsx3, 1 squad with hydra gauntletsx3 and my bloodbrides with shardnet and impalersx3.

I know wychs aren't terribly popular right now but what have you guys been doing for running them?

Go on ebay and buy the special weapons you want. They are probably $2 each but you get the ones you want.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So, everyone is talking about how wwp and wraithguard are the hotness. Which an ap2 flamer really is hot. But is it really that much better than medusa's sp3 flamer? The wraiths are much more survivable but the medusa can be put into a raider making them much more mobile. As it stands once the wraithgaurd flames their unit they have a hard time doing much of anything else. Whats more flamers coming out of a raider have a large area to be positioned where there is issue with the wraith guards getting to use all 5 flamers the turn they drop because of being deployed in a circle. Also because medusa are 25pts instead of 42pts you can take a few more which makes them deadlier to everything that is not sv2+

So the big question is, are their enough sv2+ units and are wraiths that much more survivable?

It is worth it when you consider that they auto-wound and cause ID on a 6. This is extremely dangerous to units with high T and multiple wounds.

 The Shadow wrote:

 lambsandlions wrote:

 HawaiiMatt wrote:
The webway works on anything the character is embarked on and the unit he has joined.
You could go serpent + Archon + 5 wraithguard + 1 other model.

If you go with a Raider, you're only left with 9 spots open, and the Wraithguard take up 2 spots each.

With a serpent you have to unload your wraithgaurd every time you want to shoot, then get back into it next turn to move and wait one more turn to unload and shoot again.

I think the point is more that you get a Wave Serpent. The WG stay out in the open like they would anyway, and then the Wave Serpent goes off and does what it does best.

But then you are stuck with wg on the ground and they just don't do anything after they flame one unit. That was the whole point of getting medusa in the raider, for mobility.

Why not just bring Wraithguard in with a Wave Serpent. Remember it's Capacity 12, gives a damn good amount of fire power.

It moves at combat speed so you can fire off etc..

It's not a bad idea.


The Archon Court is a excellent unit and well worth the investment. It's got guys that are dirt cheap , come with great benefits.

With the increase in MSU I don't think WWP WG are that great, against armies with low unit counts they are good, or deathstars, but against a MSU army people are talking about dropping close to 400pts of WG with d-scythes with an archon that is minimum 95pts, and a waveserpent which is what 110? Spiritseer, another 80?

thats 685pts without any other upgrades on the archon, which is the cost of a deathstar more or less. Dropping this to kill a 100-150pt unit in a MSU army is silly, as the wg+friends will be engaged, or massively killed the following turn.

in a 1500pt list thats half your army, in reserves in 1 unit, in a 1850 game its 35% or so of your army, so yeah against deathstars that are not invis you will hurt them bad, against anything else...you would have been better off taking 2-3 DE HQ with wwp+gear and trueborn w/blasters or medusae.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hollismason wrote:
So this gentleman was brought to my attention.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/I/Irillyth-2.pdf


Yeah... I'm sure something can be done about that 12 inch Debuff with Dark Eldar.

Also it's not been brought up but the Archon is able to purchase a Venom as a Dedicated Transport, which is a pretty good vehicle.

the 12" debuff only applies if that IC is in a shadow spectre squad according to its rules. You could put a WWP archon in with them that had some -ld funkiness tho.

blaktoof wrote:
With the increase in MSU I don't think WWP WG are that great, against armies with low unit counts they are good, or deathstars, but against a MSU army people are talking about dropping close to 400pts of WG with d-scythes with an archon that is minimum 95pts, and a waveserpent which is what 110? Spiritseer, another 80?

thats 685pts without any other upgrades on the archon, which is the cost of a deathstar more or less. Dropping this to kill a 100-150pt unit in a MSU army is silly, as the wg+friends will be engaged, or massively killed the following turn.

in a 1500pt list thats half your army, in reserves in 1 unit, in a 1850 game its 35% or so of your army, so yeah against deathstars that are not invis you will hurt them bad, against anything else...you would have been better off taking 2-3 DE HQ with wwp+gear and trueborn w/blasters or medusae.

What is wrong with 1 archon with 5 scytheguard? Only ~300 points. Yes a lot of armies dont have anything worth 300 points, but you can completely neuter one unit and against MSU possibly live to tell the tail.

 Exergy wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
With the increase in MSU I don't think WWP WG are that great, against armies with low unit counts they are good, or deathstars, but against a MSU army people are talking about dropping close to 400pts of WG with d-scythes with an archon that is minimum 95pts, and a waveserpent which is what 110? Spiritseer, another 80?

thats 685pts without any other upgrades on the archon, which is the cost of a deathstar more or less. Dropping this to kill a 100-150pt unit in a MSU army is silly, as the wg+friends will be engaged, or massively killed the following turn.

in a 1500pt list thats half your army, in reserves in 1 unit, in a 1850 game its 35% or so of your army, so yeah against deathstars that are not invis you will hurt them bad, against anything else...you would have been better off taking 2-3 DE HQ with wwp+gear and trueborn w/blasters or medusae.

What is wrong with 1 archon with 5 scytheguard? Only ~300 points. Yes a lot of armies dont have anything worth 300 points, but you can completely neuter one unit and against MSU possibly live to tell the tail.

I see nothing wrong with spending about 300points to nearly guarantee that you kill a unit, even if that unit is half your points. Most armies have one or two units that do all the heavy lifting, just aim for those guys. Or you can hunt warlords. There are many HQ units that may be cheap but give the army a lot of utility and are force multipliers so it is worth killing them off.

It's closer to 500 if you want to demolish something.

Archon w/ WWP Armour of Misery

Wraithguard x 5 w/ D Scythes

Iyanden Spirit Seer w/ Telepathy

Wave Serpent w/ Scatter Laser , what ever the hell they take I can't remember I think they're like 120

- 2 LD to something with in 6 inches, for Psychic Scream.


Why do you have a Wave Serpent, everything I've seen says a Independent Character has to disembark with a squad. Squad can just get the hell out. They'd just not be in the same unit anymore.

Pretty sure that -2 Extends out from the Wave Serpent if the Archon is inside it.

So.. by my count and the rulebook is not just like right next to me right now, you could leave the Archon in that Transport, measure out 6 from the hull this smash something to death. With the Wraithguard Disembarking w/ the Spirit Seer, that gives you plenty of room to manuevre perfect template placement.

Dunno if people thought of that.

Have one of those and 1 "regular" Squad.

Amid all the Fast Attack options we have available, I'm starting to like the aesthetic look of Hellions.

What would be the best loadout for them? I'm thinking a Helliarch and maybe a Stunclaw to IK characters in combat for 80 pts, but then again, for 10 points more you can get a Agoniser