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blaktoof wrote:
I think both the crimson hunter and razorwing are good at AA.

I really wouldn't consider the Razorwing good anti-air.

Frankly, if you want AA, you picked the wrong codex.

Solar Shock wrote:

 vipoid wrote:
The old codex also didn't charge me an extra £30 to use some playstyles...

Ahh the sad story there is.... once they realised they could.... why wouldn't they? Suppliments, formations... its all $$$. I mean, look at it in general... staggered releases.... units before dex.... Suppliments at the same time as dex releases.... formations in other books released weeks later. Lets not kind ourselves, each of those is aimed at maximising product sales in pretty much every way

Gota get my fix! one way or another!

That firebase support cadre does sound pretty damn useful! also pretty effective for other armies and not only anything with lots of fliers, i mean EWO works on DSing troops and drop pods right?

Yeah. It's also really good for additional AT so you don't have to rely on Scourge and equivalents - giving you a bit more room for Anti Infantry (so Gunboats, Razorwing Missiles and co ). Helps against SM too with PE: SM

I'll probably test Deathbringer Flight and see how well it does - but FBSC has proven itself in competitive games and I wouldn't fault you for taking it
(side note, there's a bit of fluff with DE and Tau fighting against Nids where DE asked Tau for some of their soldiers to help the Tau against the Nids. Of which, Tau complied and were shortly aided by mysterious hulking blue creatures that the DE set upon the Nids. Kekekekekeh..)

Anyone else more than a little sad about tomb-blades?
Massed S5 ignore cover, ignore our armor shooting? Wheee.
Looks like I need those Autarch jet bikes on point tanking hits after all.

-Matt

Very much. Fast enough to get close enough to us too.

The only consolation I can take is that with my poison I don't care about your higher toughness XD

 HawaiiMatt wrote:
Anyone else more than a little sad about tomb-blades?
Massed S5 ignore cover, ignore our armor shooting? Wheee.
Looks like I need those Autarch jet bikes on point tanking hits after all.

-Matt

That and its a required unit in the decurion... so its not like they are going to be rare or a playstyle choice There WILL be a unit of them
But with what Frozen said, atleast poison dont care about there T, and with going first hopefully you can put enough poison potential on them to force a jink turn 1 (if your going first), as some high volume poison from some venoms should certainly give them good reason to jink. thus they can't snapshoot their blasts right?

That's correct Solar, they can't shoot Particler Beamers if Jinking. But I think the general consensus is that Gauss Blasters are better in most cases (can Jink, TL and universally good).

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/637532.page

That thread is QS vs Lance. I think it may be relevant for you guys to look at.

While I know myself, and other Necron players in my area wouldn't rule it that way, it may be something you guys come across.

I dont think what they are trying to say is correct;
As the statement is referring to "model" characteristics, lance is not a model rule, its a weapon profile rule. But thats for that topic

@Frozen, I thought the point was we were worried about the Ignores cover blasts? Although ignores cover gauss is possibly equally as bad... Gauss blasters are STR4? So they would be needing 6's on AP rolls anyways? which would be a gauss glance?

Although when I think about it, Str 5 blasts TL are probably < Str 4 TL shots. Sadly I cant remember the weapon profiles of the Cron stuff.

On Tomb Blades, Guass Blasters are S5 AP4 Rapid Fire, Twin Linked, Particle Beamers are S6 AP5 Blast

Ignores cover guass blasters with twin linked are very good, possibly one of the best ground to air units in the game.

Always wounds on 6s always glances on 6s, hits 30% of the time even when snap firing thanks to twin linked and can have ignores cover.

You can get I believe ~13 tomb blades with a 3+ save upgrade and ignores cover for the cost of 1 flying hive tyrant with e grubs and twin devourers.

26 shots with about a third hitting, is 8-9 hits at str5 ap4 always wounds/glances on 6s. Many FMC are T 5 so that is 4-5 wounds with ap4. Against an AV10 flyer that will be on average 1pen2glances or a dead AV10 HP3 flyer if you don't have a ++ save (no cover saves due to nebulascope)

honestly they are possibly one of the best mobile shooty units in the game for the cost at the moment. Coupled with a 3+ save with a 5+ RP (possibly re-roll of 1s or a 4+ RP with reroll of 1s depending on formation and characters in unit) they can also be quite resilient.

The beamers being blasts cant target flyers, but at s6 ap5 they deny most DE FnP and armor saves.

Excellently put Blaktoof, thanks for the concise description
Yeh they seem nasty. I suppose luckily, if they choose the blast our transports fair better as its single shot, but if they go blasters then they are better against our AV but not denying FnP.

But if they bring a unit of both then seems your Sod out of luck! And if they are as versatile as they seem... who wouldn't bring one of each

Here's a report against the Serpent Spam if anyone is interested:

BR2: The Repugnant Ramblers Vs Serpent Spam - 1250pts

 Mushkilla wrote:
Here's a report against the Serpent Spam if anyone is interested:

BR2: The Repugnant Ramblers Vs Serpent Spam - 1250pts

God I hate battlereports of that size. Can someone give a short version? Lol. Because I am actually interested in what transpired I am just not diving through that

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Mushkilla wrote:
Here's a report against the Serpent Spam if anyone is interested:

BR2: The Repugnant Ramblers Vs Serpent Spam - 1250pts

God I hate battlereports of that size. Can someone give a short version? Lol. Because I am actually interested in what transpired I am just not diving through that

Short version: The bad guys won.

 SHUPPET wrote:
God I hate battlereports of that size. Can someone give a short version? Lol. Because I am actually interested in what transpired I am just not diving through that

Any advice on how to make the reports more palatable?

I always figured the pictures and 3-4 sentences summarising each turn kept things relatively short.

Hell you could even just look at the pictures, and only read the words if you felt you needed more information.

Does anyone else see the potential of fitting a Shadowseer into a unit of Incubi? She seems like a really good buy for them, being quite cheap (similar to a Succubus at mastery level 1) but she would grant them Fearless, Hit'n'run and -2 Leadership to enemy units.

She also hits quite hard with 5 fleshbane attacks and has pinning grenades, which used along with the -2 will mitigate overwatch sometimes. While she may not hit as hard as a Sucubus, she offers a lot more buffs.

Incubi hit hard, by turn 4 they have furious charge. That's 3 Strength 5 AP 2 attacks each, Hit'n'Run allows them to keep that attack increase instead of getting bogged down in those last few tactical marines. The psyker level is just a bonus, but Veil of Tears will always have a chance to be useful.

My only concern is how hard it is to get them into a battle forged army.

SHUPPET wrote:

God I hate battlereports of that size. Can someone give a short version? Lol. Because I am actually interested in what transpired I am just not diving through that

I think your doing Mush a disservice there, his reports are long but only because there are pictures, VP updates and explanations. Overall it takes me about 10 minutes to get through the entire thing and that includes reading it all and observing all the pictures. Each player turn is summarised in around 5 lines of text which includes details of why he made moves or the little details the pictures dont show.

if you wanted a brief or short version scroll to the end? he has the VP final totals, thats a 10 second job and you will know who won. Or just scan the pictures in 2 minutes, heck skim reading the text and skipping the images would only be 5 minutes at most. I think Mush's batreps are a standard to which most other batreps fall short. He provides you with all the information for you to decide how you'd like to consume it.

But as a brief;

he clustered the objectives as close as he could in the eldar half, achieving 4 surrounding a piece of terrain. He then used his sheer durability with his two grot bombs to hold basically the entire 4, using the objectives he was able to hold the serpents at arms length while allowing him good odds of drawing cards he could achieve. He played to the mission and was able to deny the eldar list any kill x unit, as both grot units survived the entire game. He made it difficult for the serpents to gain much and kept his scoring on a roll.

A note: in the time it takes to read my post you could have read a 1\5th of the report, so with a little more effort you could have read it yourself

They aren't too long at all.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Does anyone else see the potential of fitting a Shadowseer into a unit of Incubi? She seems like a really good buy for them, being quite cheap (similar to a Succubus at mastery level 1) but she would grant them Fearless, Hit'n'run and -2 Leadership to enemy units.

She also hits quite hard with 5 fleshbane attacks and has pinning grenades, which used along with the -2 will mitigate overwatch sometimes. While she may not hit as hard as a Sucubus, she offers a lot more buffs.

Incubi hit hard, by turn 4 they have furious charge. That's 3 Strength 5 AP 2 attacks each, Hit'n'Run allows them to keep that attack increase instead of getting bogged down in those last few tactical marines. The psyker level is just a bonus, but Veil of Tears will always have a chance to be useful.

My only concern is how hard it is to get them into a battle forged army.

Yeah they are pretty great in my estimation of what they can do, because of the skills they offer. Another great unit is Grotesques, being able to give Grotesques Hit and Run is crazy.

Yeah a Shadowseer would be great. Unfortunately Harlequins have been organised in a really crappy way for allying in to a DE army.

 Mushkilla wrote:


Any advice on how to make the reports more palatable?

I always figured the pictures and 3-4 sentences summarising each turn kept things relatively short.

Hell you could even just look at the pictures, and only read the words if you felt you needed more information.

ryuken87 wrote:
They aren't too long at all.

Solar Shock wrote:

I think your doing Mush a disservice there, his reports are long but only because there are pictures, VP updates and explanations. Overall it takes me about 10 minutes to get through the entire thing and that includes reading it all and observing all the pictures. Each player turn is summarised in around 5 lines of text which includes details of why he made moves or the little details the pictures dont show.

It's not an attack on the size of the battlereport guys.... I'm just saying that I PERSONALLY dislike battle reports of that size, a lot are this size or larger, but to ME, personally, I was interested in what happened in a less in depth, more concise format. However Mush if you are actually asking how to make your BR appeal to somebody who feels the way about Battlereports that I do, I'd recommend just including a quick overview in the conclusion next to the score, and as such I'm more likely to actually scroll through the BR itself to see the more indepth version of the things I'm curious about.

Solar Shock wrote:
he clustered the objectives as close as he could in the eldar half, achieving 4 surrounding a piece of terrain. He then used his sheer durability with his two grot bombs to hold basically the entire 4, using the objectives he was able to hold the serpents at arms length while allowing him good odds of drawing cards he could achieve. He played to the mission and was able to deny the eldar list any kill x unit, as both grot units survived the entire game. He made it difficult for the serpents to gain much and kept his scoring on a roll.

This is exactly what I was looking for, thanks a bunch!

Solar Shock wrote:
A note: in the time it takes to read my post you could have read a 1\5th of the report, so with a little more effort you could have read it yourself

Thanks dad, but I'm well aware of the amount of time it would have taken me personally to chew through something of that size, which is why I appealed to those that had already read it for a shorthand version

It's not to difficult to get Harlequins into the Dark Eldar army with their MASQUE, it works pretty well.

Just purchase the mandatory 2 F. Attack as Starweavers then stick a 5 man squad of Kabalite Warriors in it with Blaster.Then purchase Raiders and Venoms from the Fast Attack portion of the D Eldar codex or buy them their own Transport.It works out really well.I actually think Wyches can be viable now with 1 or 2 Shadow Seers the squads are cheap enough and the Shadowseer has hit and run + the Veil Power.

15 Wyches w/ 3 Hydra Gauntlets, Shadowseer is 225. The Shadowseer being ML1 autoget's the primaris from Phantomancy which is pretty great and can get abilities to give them shrouding , and cover or go with a Raider, their cheap alternatives to Harlequins basically.

Thoughts on this null deployment list? I'm intending on taking it to a tournament come April (if it's good shall buy models)

DE CAD
Lhamaean 10
5x Kabalite Warriors w/ Blaster, Venom w/ 2x Splinter Cannon 120
5x Kabalite Warriors w/ Blaster, Venom w/ 2x Splinter Cannon 120
5x Scourge w/ (4x Heat Lance or Haywire?) 120
5x Scourge w/ (4x Heat Lance or Haywire?) 120
8x Reavers w/ 3x Cluster Caltrops, Arena Champion 199

DE Formation
Scalpel Squadron
5x Wracks w/ Ossefactor, Venom w/ 2x Splinter Cannon 130
5x Wracks w/ Ossefactor, Venom w/ 2x Splinter Cannon 130

Eldar Allied
Autarch w/ Jetbike, Banshee Mask 90
3x Windrider Jetbikes 51
Crimson Hunter 160

Thoughts?

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Does anyone else see the potential of fitting a Shadowseer into a unit of Incubi? She seems like a really good buy for them, being quite cheap (similar to a Succubus at mastery level 1) but she would grant them Fearless, Hit'n'run and -2 Leadership to enemy units.

She also hits quite hard with 5 fleshbane attacks and has pinning grenades, which used along with the -2 will mitigate overwatch sometimes. While she may not hit as hard as a Sucubus, she offers a lot more buffs.

Incubi hit hard, by turn 4 they have furious charge. That's 3 Strength 5 AP 2 attacks each, Hit'n'Run allows them to keep that attack increase instead of getting bogged down in those last few tactical marines. The psyker level is just a bonus, but Veil of Tears will always have a chance to be useful.

My only concern is how hard it is to get them into a battle forged army.

You still don't have grenades on the Incubi, which is the main reason nobody takes them. Sure, they hit hard... but at I1. So the Shadowseer would be making them stronger where they are strong (locked into a continuing assault), but no stronger where they are weak (initiating that assault in the first place). Because it doesn't cover the crippling weakness of the unit, I really can't see this combination being that useful in the long run.

 Frozocrone wrote:
Thoughts on this null deployment list? I'm intending on taking it to a tournament come April (if it's good shall buy models)

DE CAD
Lhamaean 10
5x Kabalite Warriors w/ Blaster, Venom w/ 2x Splinter Cannon 120
5x Kabalite Warriors w/ Blaster, Venom w/ 2x Splinter Cannon 120
5x Scourge w/ (4x Heat Lance or Haywire?) 120
5x Scourge w/ (4x Heat Lance or Haywire?) 120
8x Reavers w/ 3x Cluster Caltrops, Arena Champion 199

DE Formation
Scalpel Squadron
5x Wracks w/ Ossefactor, Venom w/ 2x Splinter Cannon 130
5x Wracks w/ Ossefactor, Venom w/ 2x Splinter Cannon 130

Eldar Allied
Autarch w/ Jetbike, Banshee Mask 90
3x Windrider Jetbikes 51
Crimson Hunter 160

Thoughts?

Im definitely interested to hear about this list plus the discussion that follows because i too would love to make a null deployment list! They look so much fun and potentially throw alot of lists out of their groove early on which is a major boost to DE potential!

 SHUPPET wrote:
However Mush if you are actually asking how to make your BR appeal to somebody who feels the way about Battlereports that I do, I'd recommend just including a quick overview in the conclusion next to the score, and as such I'm more likely to actually scroll through the BR itself to see the more indepth version of the things I'm curious about.

I was being genuine, I'm always looking for ways to make battle reports more accessible. Personally I have always struggled with large bodies of text, hence why I'm a big fan of diagrams. I'll add a quick summary at the end in future. Thanks for the feedback.

 Mushkilla wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
However Mush if you are actually asking how to make your BR appeal to somebody who feels the way about Battlereports that I do, I'd recommend just including a quick overview in the conclusion next to the score, and as such I'm more likely to actually scroll through the BR itself to see the more indepth version of the things I'm curious about.

I was being genuine, I'm always looking for ways to make battle reports more accessible. Personally I have always struggled with large bodies of text, hence why I'm a big fan of diagrams. I'll add a quick summary at the end in future. Thanks for the feedback.

I like SHUPPET's idea but not cause im lazy, I feel Mush has something going with his bat reps but at work i cant read the whole thing right away, id like a quick overview so i can read it real fast and get an idea then come back to it later for the meaty parts. An interesting idea too would be if we started a thread for the batreps then the whole community talked about what happened, what could have changed, why things worked, why they didnt work, and overall status of the DE in a typical meta.

Keep up the works Mush

 Solosam47 wrote:

 Mushkilla wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
However Mush if you are actually asking how to make your BR appeal to somebody who feels the way about Battlereports that I do, I'd recommend just including a quick overview in the conclusion next to the score, and as such I'm more likely to actually scroll through the BR itself to see the more indepth version of the things I'm curious about.

I was being genuine, I'm always looking for ways to make battle reports more accessible. Personally I have always struggled with large bodies of text, hence why I'm a big fan of diagrams. I'll add a quick summary at the end in future. Thanks for the feedback.

I like SHUPPET's idea but not cause im lazy, I feel Mush has something going with his bat reps but at work i cant read the whole thing right away, id like a quick overview so i can read it real fast and get an idea then come back to it later for the meaty parts. An interesting idea too would be if we started a thread for the batreps then the whole community talked about what happened, what could have changed, why things worked, why they didnt work, and overall status of the DE in a typical meta.

Keep up the works Mush

For me its more that I cannot keep track of what happens throughout a match in written form, I am perfectly fine at it while playing (actually pretty good) but when reading a battle report, every sentence may as well be for a new match, I cannot put the things together for some reason, probably mild ADHD lol when it comes to staying focused on things that I'm not directly involved in. Even the overview at the end is a challenge for me, but makes it certainly a lot easier to digest. I really like These suggestions here

 Solosam47 wrote:
I like SHUPPET's idea but not cause im lazy, I feel Mush has something going with his bat reps but at work i cant read the whole thing right away, id like a quick overview so i can read it real fast and get an idea then come back to it later for the meaty parts.

I'll add a summary at the end in future to make things easier, for people who just want a quick summary. I'll also hide lists behind spoilers so to make things more compact.

 Solosam47 wrote:
An interesting idea too would be if we started a thread for the batreps then the whole community talked about what happened, what could have changed, why things worked, why they didnt work, and overall status of the DE in a typical meta.

Keep up the works Mush

That's what I feel the battle report threads over at TDC are for, I didn't really want to have to keep track of multiple report threads on different forums and felt it was easier to just keep them in one place.

Thanks for the feedback!

This past Saturday I played a 3 round RTT at 1700 pts.

My list:
Heami-wwp,FG
Heami-wwp,FG

10 grots- abberation, SH
10 grots- abberation, SH

Corpsethief claw:
5 Talos- 5 TLHB, 5 Ichor IN, 5 Chain FL

Missions Maelstrom

I looked around at my opponents and of them the one I feared most was the GK list with 2 dreadknights and a terminator unit with draigo and a libby. He was using their special detachment for T1 deepstrike.

Warlord trait: 3 add or subtract one to reserves

The mission was cloak and shadows (or whatever) and I he placed objectives first. I placed all three of mine off his first placement forming a diamond, the other two were on the opposite edge. I won first deployment and took the side with the 4 objectives since their was more area terrain as well. I also decided to deploy my entire army because I wanted to force him to DS in risky situations off of the objectives.

Short overview is he was way too intimidated by all my CC units and we basically watched eachother for 3 turns. I drew AWFUL card however and couldn't score a point until turn 3 when I got FB, big game hunter AND witch slayer with my corpse thief claw shooting his venerable dread in ruins. I mayde sure that when he finally assaulted my claw with his NDK I was in terrain and I thankfully mulched it before it could swing. I won 5-4 only because I made a SERIOUSLY stupid decision to accept a challenge giving him two points, I chalked it up to the very casual nature of our game and him taking 30 minute turns to my 3 minute turns. ( I figured out he had the challenge card earlier, but spaced out after his lengthy deliberations. I tend to do that, it one of my worse faults in boring games)

My second match was against an Iyandin eldar army with 2 WS, 2 Wraithknights (one with sun canon lol) 2 units of wraith blades (axes) lead by spirit seers a WG unit(canons) a DA unit and two bike units led by warlocks.

Warlord trait: 3 add or subtract one to reserves (again lol)

Mission the standard mission 1 maelstrom. This game I reserved both grot units. I used the same objective tactic as the last game only this time his side had the majority with my corpse thief claw sitting between my two. This game was a blow out and I tabled him. Corspe thief proved insane here and by turn two managed to earn me 5 VP's due to some poor decisions from him. He decided to go for a maelstrom to the right of my claw with a windrider unit turn one, on my turn I drew the same objective as well as assasinate (his unit had a warlock) to I got FB, objective 5 and assasssinate. To make things worse he tried the same thing on the other objective next turn only to see me draw that objective and again make the charge. He really had no idea how to face my list, especially when my two massive grot units deep struck between all 4 of his objectives.

The big winning unit was the corspe thief claw though, it finally died but not before soaking all his shooting for 5 turns and earning my something like 10 vp's. My rolls cmae on fir eto make it worse and one of his WK assaulted a grot squad and dropped 3 grots (would have been 4 but I made my 6+ from HoW lol) only to see my warlord hit every time and wound every time including two 6's, of which he failed one and I insta gibbed it!

Game 3 some how i roll the same warlord trait again lol

I played a super shooty tau army from hell with 2 missleside units, 2 riptides one ion on burst and two crisis missle pod units led by commanders. I got tabled :(

BUT, my rolling was HORRID, I rolled my corpse thief claws 3+ saves like they were 5+ and his rolling was on fire (like he needed it with 2+ TL to hit rolls and one unit having monsterhunter) Depsite this I had two talos with one wound each making a multi charge verse a broad side unit and one crisis unit, except they died to over watch!!! Had my saves been average the turn before I am possitive I'd have survived and wiped those two units lifting a HUGE burdon off my two grot units that were sitting 1" away from his line but about to take the entire armies fire rather then half.

The worst part of that match was also terrain, the table was so open he literally just lined up across from me and had LOS on my unit with everything turn one. I large LOS blocker in the middle would have seen me hugging it turn 1 for a max threat overload turn 2 despite making the charge unlikely.

So all in all I have to say I am impressed with how well I did against ALL tough matchups in maelstrom on a 6x4 table with 3 units lol.

At 1850 I think I might cut some fat and try to take 4 units of 5 grots with WWP heamis ( dual cad) plus corpse thief. I think it would give me more flexibility and allow me to detach the haemis if I need more MSU for objectives OR to soak overwatch verse tau.