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Tank Shock specifically moves models out from under the tanks shocking/ramming unit, if it does not clear the unit.


Meaning, aside from deepstrike, the rule has no effect.

First rule of deep strike - you can't target enemy, so no tank shocks, rams etc. mishap only

That's not actually a rule of deep strike don't make things up.

Er mah gerd. Deep Striking says that the unit moves onto the field from Reserves, and then quotes the page for Reserves. Reserves specifically says that the unit "moves" onto the board, Deep Striking just gives them a specific way to do so. So, Monoliths, Land Speeders, and Raiders, all "move" onto the board, they just do so in the specific Deep Strike way.

Anyone who argues, well, let me ask you this. Why would Skimmers ever end their movement over a model? If they can't move over it, then under normal circumstances, they wouldn't be able to initiate that move in the first place. So, there must be a reason that they put that rule in there.

Hollismason wrote:
That's not actually a rule of deep strike don't make things up.

so tell me. What happen if you deep strike into unit? There are no exception what type of unit it is. It mishap

 krodarklorr wrote:
Anyone who argues, well, let me ask you this. Why would Skimmers ever end their movement over a model? If they can't move over it, then under normal circumstances, they wouldn't be able to initiate that move in the first place. So, there must be a reason that they put that rule in there.

Already been asked and answered.

 insaniak wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
Anyone who argues, well, let me ask you this. Why would Skimmers ever end their movement over a model? If they can't move over it, then under normal circumstances, they wouldn't be able to initiate that move in the first place. So, there must be a reason that they put that rule in there.

Already been asked and answered.

A pointless waste of ink that has persisted for at least 2 editions?

A left over from 3rd(?) edition from when skimmers drifted when stunned?

A rule actually meant to save a skimmer from mishapping?



All 3 have a valid argument.

You should post the actual skimmer rule. I don't have access to it right now.

I'm almost positive it states if it would.

 Mavlun wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Mavlun wrote:
Don't think so. afaik, you can't tank shock vehicles...

Ramming is a special type of Tank Shock... (Vehicles chapter, Ramming section, 2nd graph 1st sentence).

Yeah, so it's not Tank Shock, it's ramming. My point stands

No, it is Tank shock. (Ramming is Tank Shock).

Ramming is a special type of Tank Shock. All Ram's are Tank shocks, but not all Tank shocks are Ram's.

 megatrons2nd wrote:
Tank Shock specifically moves models out from under the tanks shocking/ramming unit, if it does not clear the unit.
Meaning, aside from deepstrike, the rule has no effect.

If the death or glory stuns the model, without killing it, it's leave a tank shocking deep striking model hovering an inch above.
The then useless rule of moving clear would come into effect.

If of course, deep strike tank shock is possible.

 krodarklorr wrote:

Anyone who argues, well, let me ask you this. Why would Skimmers ever end their movement over a model? If they can't move over it, then under normal circumstances, they wouldn't be able to initiate that move in the first place. So, there must be a reason that they put that rule in there.

Do you mean "why" or "how"? Because there are ways that a skimmer can end their movement over a model.

XXXXXXX(skimmer)
[====](building or terrain)
[====]
[====]+++++(unit)
==============

Side view of such a situation where a skimmer can end it's movement over a unit but then has to move because of it's rules that it can't end it's movement over another unit. RAW makes it silly to force the skimmer to move away.

Hollismason wrote:
You should post the actual skimmer rule. I don't have access to it right now.

I'm almost positive it states if it would.

It will not, because it WILL mishap and WILL NOT end its move over another model, as the mishap rules present it

So, if youre correct on the "if", you still cannot ever actually TS from DS. If youre NOT correct on the IF, you still cannot TS from DS, as you still mishap before you end your move

Either way, you cannot end your move on top of a model using the DS rules. Proven.

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

 megatrons2nd wrote:
Tank Shock specifically moves models out from under the tanks shocking/ramming unit, if it does not clear the unit.
Meaning, aside from deepstrike, the rule has no effect.

If the death or glory stuns the model, without killing it, it's leave a tank shocking deep striking model hovering an inch above.
The then useless rule of moving clear would come into effect.

If of course, deep strike tank shock is possible.

Actually it wouldn't the Skimmer rule would kick in and put it away from it. That's kind of the whole debate.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
You should post the actual skimmer rule. I don't have access to it right now.

I'm almost positive it states if it would.

It will not, because it WILL mishap and WILL NOT end its move over another model, as the mishap rules present it

So, if youre correct on the "if", you still cannot ever actually TS from DS. If youre NOT correct on the IF, you still cannot TS from DS, as you still mishap before you end your move

Either way, you cannot end your move on top of a model using the DS rules. Proven.

Yes but which occurs first the deep strike mishap or the skimmer rule. I'd say the skimmer rule as it states if something would happen and the Deep strike mishap states when. There's a difference between those two statements.

Hollismason wrote:
Yes but which occurs first the deep strike mishap or the skimmer rule. I'd say the skimmer rule as it states if something would happen and the Deep strike mishap states when. There's a difference between those two statements.

Has the Deep Strike rule been fully resolved? If not, how can the skimmer have ended its movement there?
Please, cite rules support instead of linking to mocking videos.

 krodarklorr wrote:
Er mah gerd. Deep Striking says that the unit moves onto the field from Reserves, and then quotes the page for Reserves. Reserves specifically says that the unit "moves" onto the board, Deep Striking just gives them a specific way to do so. So, Monoliths, Land Speeders, and Raiders, all "move" onto the board, they just do so in the specific Deep Strike way.

Anyone who argues, well, let me ask you this. Why would Skimmers ever end their movement over a model? If they can't move over it, then under normal circumstances, they wouldn't be able to initiate that move in the first place. So, there must be a reason that they put that rule in there.

Nothing in that rules states it has to take.effect during your own phase.

Things it does work with...

Thunderblitz, result of 6.
Wargear like the Magna Grapple.


The rub is that whenever a USR and Basic BRB rule conflict each other, the USR wins.

Relentless states you may charge after shooting heavy, the basic rules conflict this and say you can not.
Skimmers say you move in order to avoid being on top of a model. Deep Strike says vehicles can not move any further than what you scatter.

Hollie, stop the spam. I already explained that a DS vehicle can never end its move, as the scatter and mishap, which is before the vehicle counts as having moved, are resolved

You keep ignoring this glaringly straight forward rule.

rigeld2 wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
Yes but which occurs first the deep strike mishap or the skimmer rule. I'd say the skimmer rule as it states if something would happen and the Deep strike mishap states when. There's a difference between those two statements.

Has the Deep Strike rule been fully resolved? If not, how can the skimmer have ended its movement there?
Please, cite rules support instead of linking to mocking videos.

Where does it say that the Skimmer rule would not prevent that it's whole goal is to ensure that a Skimmer will not end it's move on top of another model. That's the point of the rule. It's specifically in the rules to stop you from saying " I am just going to place my Skimmer on top of your tank".

Like that's the purpose and function of that rule.

So how does that rule not prevent a mishap, as the model is being placed in such a way to end it's movement.

The rule isn't " After ending your move, move it one inch away"

The Rule is " IF it would end its move then it's placed one inch away"

It stops it from every even happening which is why it occurs before mishap, because it literally cannot be placed int such a way as a ending of its move.

Think of it this way it is preventative medicine, versus medical treatment.

You may take vitamens to prevent getting a cold, but if you get a cold you may take cold medicine. That's the difference between those two rules. Hence the video. Also Sesame Street by its very nature cannot be anything but wonderful

Malkov wrote:
Deep Strike says vehicles can not move any further than what you scatter.

That's the discussion now, with one side saying that when you scatter, you've finished your move and you're on top of an enemy/friendly model, therefore the skimmer rule applies, and one side saying that your movement doesn't end, because you could be moved further by the result of the mishap, therefore making the move end after resolving the mishap.

Hollismason wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
Yes but which occurs first the deep strike mishap or the skimmer rule. I'd say the skimmer rule as it states if something would happen and the Deep strike mishap states when. There's a difference between those two statements.

Has the Deep Strike rule been fully resolved? If not, how can the skimmer have ended its movement there?
Please, cite rules support instead of linking to mocking videos.

Where does it say that the Skimmer rule would not prevent that it's whole goal is to ensure that a Skimmer will not end it's move on top of another model. That's the point of the rule. It's specifically in the rules to stop you from saying " I am just going to place my Skimmer on top of your tank".

Like that's the purpose and function of that rule.

So how does that rule not prevent a mishap, as the model is being placed in such a way to end it's movement.

The rule isn't " After ending your move, move it one inch away"

The Rule is " IF it would end its move then it's placed one inch away"

It stops it from every even happening which is why it occurs before mishap, because it literally cannot be placed int such a way as a ending of its move.

Think of it this way it is preventative medicine, versus medical treatment.

You may take vitamens to prevent getting a cold, but if you get a cold you may take cold medicine. That's the difference between those two rules. Hence the video. Also Sesame Street by its very nature cannot be anything but wonderful

Because the actual rule is that if you would be forced to end your move...
The end of the scatter is not the end of the move. The mishap is the end of the move. Once you mishap you're no longer forced to end your move on top of a unit.

Post your actual rule quotes, cause I've repeatedly stated that the Skimmer rule and Mishap both occur at different times. They both check to see if the model is going to be placed within 1 inch or on top of a model as it's ending move.

Skimmer rule doesn't even let this happen.

The Mishap rule has you place it and check. If you cannot place it you mishap.

Both of these rules function the same way, one though doesn't even let you place it it checks before it's even placed and that is the skimmer rule.

No, the mishap rule is not concerned with a move. Scatter is not a move, for the tenth time stop conflating two different concepts. The unit does t even ARRIVE until after you check for mishap, so how you can claim it has ended its move is ludicrous.

The quotes were already given, and your argument rebutted at every turn.

If you ds a skimmer onto a unit, it mishaps. Raw.

Hollismason wrote:
Post your actual rule quotes, cause I've repeatedly stated that the Skimmer rule and Mishap both occur at different times. They both check to see if the model is going to be placed within 1 inch or on top of a model as it's ending move.

Skimmer rule doesn't even let this happen.

The Mishap rule has you place it and check. If you cannot place it you mishap.

Both of these rules function the same way, one though doesn't even let you place it it checks before it's even placed and that is the skimmer rule.

And yet the skimmer rule forces the check at the end of the skimmer's movement.
Is before the mishap resolution the end of the skimmer's movement?

Post your rules because that's not what the skimmer rule states at all.

Hollismason wrote:
Post your rules because that's not what the skimmer rule states at all.

It's not?

If a Skimmer is forced to end its move over friendly or enemy models, move the Skimmer the minimum distance so that no models are left underneath it.

Let's look at what I said

And yet the skimmer rule forces the check at the end of the skimmer's movement.
Is before the mishap resolution the end of the skimmer's movement?

So if something happens before the end of the skimmers move that makes it not be forced to end its move over friendly or enemy models, the skimmer rule doesn't kick in.
The mishap rule happens before the end of the skimmers move. The mishap rule makes it not be forced to end its move over friendly or enemy models. The skimmer rule doesn't kick in.

Mishap doesn't happen before the end of the move. You physically go to place the model that's during it. You place it check if it's going to mishap. It's being forced to end its move , Skimmer kicks in.

RAW and RAI, I am like 100% sure this is why there was not thought given to giving Raiders and the like anything to manage deep strike with.

Hollismason wrote:
RAW and RAI, I am like 100% sure this is why there was not thought given to giving Raiders and the like anything to manage deep strike with.

What's funnier is the notion of a Monolith having to mishap because it clips a termagant

I've always hated the 'mishap on contact with the enemy' clause, as orbital bombardments are often a good way to squish someone...

 insaniak wrote:

 Laughingcarp wrote:
I'm still not convinced by anyone who says the definition of "obstacle" includes being within 1" of enemy models. Because that isn't an "obstacle", it is open ground.

If it prevents you from placing a model there, it's an obstacle.

Right, but by the argument you're supporting VS skimmers being able to drift 1" away, the drop pod model bounces off the enemy unit and is placed within 1". It CAN physically be placed there. Same as the skimmer.
No obstacle is presented to the model placement, by any definition of the word.
Then, by the explanation you're supporting, mishap apparently happens BEFORE it could move any further away., e.g. out of 1" bubble.
Same as the skimmer.

But if you read that the drop pod gets to shuffle the full 1" away, why can't the skimmer?

When I get home I'll write up something since people seem to not want to quote rules, but even if you argue that it happens at the same time you'd get to choose as it's your turn.

I think it's RAW and RAI. Anyway I'll post them and take it apart.

 Laughingcarp wrote:
Right, but by the argument you're supporting VS skimmers being able to drift 1" away, the drop pod model bounces off the enemy unit and is placed within 1". It CAN physically be placed there.

No, it can't, because the rules say it's not allowed to be there.

But if you read that the drop pod gets to shuffle the full 1" away, why can't the skimmer?

Because the Drop Pod's Inertial Guidance rule specifically kicks in if the Drop Pod would mishap.

The skimmer rule just applies when the skimmer finishes its movement. At the time you check if it mishaps, it hasn't yet finished its movement.