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Waaaaghmaster wrote:

I have to agree with Hollis (at least in principle). The rules for skimmers says that they cannot end their movement over other models (friendly or enemy). It's pretty definitive, and nowhere does it say "except when deepstriking, skimmers cannot end their movement over other models".

From the rules for Mishap:

If any of the models in a Deep Striking unit cannot be deployed, because at least one model would land partially or fully off the table, in impassable terrain, on top of a friendly model, or on top of or within 1" of an enemy model, something has gone wrong.

Show where 'deployment' is equal to 'movement' or where the Skimmer rule applies to deployment. Deep Striking causes the vehicle to count as having moved, but as shown in the Mishap rule, Deep Striking itself is treated as a form of deployment.

Zimko wrote:

Waaaaghmaster wrote:

I have to agree with Hollis (at least in principle). The rules for skimmers says that they cannot end their movement over other models (friendly or enemy). It's pretty definitive, and nowhere does it say "except when deepstriking, skimmers cannot end their movement over other models".

From the rules for Mishap:

If any of the models in a Deep Striking unit cannot be deployed, because at least one model would land partially or fully off the table, in impassable terrain, on top of a friendly model, or on top of or within 1" of an enemy model, something has gone wrong.

Show where 'deployment' is equal to 'movement' or where the Skimmer rule applies to deployment. Deep Striking causes the vehicle to count as having moved, but as shown in the Mishap rule, Deep Striking itself is treated as a form of deployment.

This is the strongest argument I've seen (and sort of answers my previous question). If deepstrike counts as a deployment instead of movement, then you are indeed correct.

I think I may have found an example. Though it's irrelevant to the current rule discussion, it may ease your mind if there's a purpose to the skimmer rule.

If a skimmer lands on top of a building (something only a skimmer can do I believe) while there are models inside the building and the building collapses... now we have a situation where a skimmer is forced on top of other models.

no that doesnt work zimko.

The unit inside the building is forced to disembark as per vehicle rules and so is no longer under the skimmer.




Skimmers do not follow alot of normal rules for placement we do know though, as they can be placed on top of impassable terrain as long as they fit and so do not mishap when they scatter onto it, unless they cant fit.

This leads me to believe the skimmer rule does in fact stop mishaps. This is however just HIWPI

Hollis what if it was a unit of 3 skimmers. the mishap happens before you place the 2nd and 3rd, what if there was space to place the first 1 but only enough space to place 1 of the 2 remaining ones in a concentric circle. Both times the mishap would happen before the end of its movement.

Are you saying that the order of events of the deepstrike changes if the unit size is different?

 Eihnlazer wrote:

Skimmers do not follow alot of normal rules for placement we do know though, as they can be placed on top of impassable terrain as long as they fit and so do not mishap when they scatter onto it, unless they cant fit.

This leads me to believe the skimmer rule does in fact stop mishaps. This is however just HIWPI

I believe they don't mishap because there's a rule allowing skimmers to deploy onto impassable terrain and mishap only triggers if the unit can not be deployed where it scatters. However, the skimmer rule for being forced to move onto units only applies to movement.

To a certain degree, this whole discussion is something of a moot point. Let's face it, this is coming up in relation to dark eldar skimmers. In the cases where you would want the skimmer to land close enough to an enemy unit to flame (d-scythes) or melta (fusion guns), you're going to toss an HQ with a WWP into that vehicle to make sure it lands exactly where you want.

I've stated the rule but I can quote them again and hopefully those will follow my logic which is perfectly sound by the way. I am of the opinion that the skimmer rule happens before or at the same time at scatter.

Everything Italicized is verbatim from the rules

Issue:

If a Deepstriking Skimmer would end it's final position over a unit would the Skimmer be placed at least 1inch away and avoid Mishap?

Rule

Skimmers may move through but may not end their movement over enemy models. Skimmers can move over friendly and enemy models, but they cannot end their move on top of either. If a situation forcibly would cause a skimmer to end it's move it is instead moved in such away as to place it so that this does not happen. If a Skimmer is forced to end its move over friendly or enemy models, move the Skimmer the minimum distance so that no models are left underneath it. The minimum distance required specifically means the least amount of movement required to ensure this not happen, per the rules a model may not end it's move with in 1 inch of a enemy model.A model cannot move within 1" of an enemy model unless they are charging into close combat in the Assault phase.The deep strike rules state that a model from the unit is placed on board, then you roll for scatter to see its final positioning. First, place one model from the unit anywhere on the table, in the position where you would like it to arrive, and roll for scatter to determine the model’s final position. The model may not move any further. In the Movement phase during which they arrive, Deep Striking units may not move any further. A model or unit is considered to mishap when it is placed on top of a enemy or friendly unit or with in impassable terrain. If any of the models in a Deep Striking unit cannot be deployed, because at least one model would land partially or fully off the table, in impassable terrain, on top of a friendly model, or on top of or within 1" of an enemy model, something has gone wrong.



Analysis

The initial placing a of a model for deep strike does not allow it to be placed on top of another model friendly or enemy. The final positioning of a model during deep strike would be a ending of it's movement during the movement phase as it cannot move any further. The Skimmer special rule does not allow a unit to have a ending movement on top of a enemy or friendly model. A mishap occurs when the final positioning of the model would deploy it on top of a model or with in 1 inch of a enemy unit. The final positioning of a deep striking skimmer would be reduced to the minimum required distance 1 inch in the case of a enemy unit or less than 1 inch when on a friendly unit.


Conclusion

Deep Striking Skimmers would be moved according to the skimmer special rule. The Mishap would not occur because it's deployment onto the field would be at least 1 inch away from a enemy unit.

Hollismason wrote:

Name a situation where a skimmer could be forced to move other than deep strike and that very specific instance

A Necron Overlord on barge losing an assault. He falls back, on his chariot which is a skimmer.

I am not trying to prove anything btw, I am just naming a situation were a skimmer is forced to move.

 humanas wrote:

Hollismason wrote:

Name a situation where a skimmer could be forced to move other than deep strike and that very specific instance

A Necron Overlord on barge losing an assault. He falls back, on his chariot which is a skimmer.

I am not trying to prove anything btw, I am just naming a situation were a skimmer is forced to move.

"A rider has the Fearless and Relentless special rules." This is the first sentence of the last paragraph of the Chariot rules.

Example does not apply.




As to the counting as having moved in the previous movement phase. "Counts as" and "treat as" has already been determined to be equal to, see previous discussion on FnP and other special rules where the "treat as" saved is unequivocally used to be it is saved. Not to mention that it time travels backward to stop events that have already happened.

As such, deep strike is movement, and scatter is forcing it to end it's movement over said models. But then the Skimmer special rule moves it off of the models, thus not activating a mishap, as it's special rule would not allow it to end on another model.

Do skimmers have any rules that allow them to move once the deepstriking is over?

Edit: Nevermind I am the dumb as I don't use skimmers so have never looked at the rule.

So... assuming the Skimmer rule DOES kick in...

I would scatter on top of enemy models, move the skimmer the minimum distance required to no longer be on top of those models and presumably end up right next to an enemy model, effectively within base to base contact. There is no implication that you move the extra inch away... the wording just says so you're no longer on top of the enemy models.

So, assuming the Skimmer rule works...

1. Place model
2. Scatter on top of enemy models
3. Move the minimum distance so you're no longer over an enemy model, effectively ending in bases to base contact.
4. Mishap due to being within one inch.

To avoid the mishap in this scenario, you need to demonstrate that "move the Skimmer the minimum distance so that no models are left underneath it" actually means "move the Skimmer the minimum distance so that no models are left underneath it and then move another inch".

You want an example of a Skimemr being forced to end its move on top of another unit? OK.

I surround a full 30-boy mob of Orks with my Guardian blobs (yes I run Guardian blobs, shut up). I decide to to Tank Shock the Boyz, hoping they will be force to Fall Back and die due to No Retreat. Since I have a Falcon (skimmer), I can move over my Guardians and try to Shock the Boyz. Unfortunately I forgot the Nob at the "front" of the mob has a Power Klaw, and it immobilizes my Falcon while it is over my Guardians. The Falcon is now forced to end its move on top of my Guardians. Skimmer special rule kicks in, and my Falcon instead ends it move on the other side of the Guardians. The Boyz then multi-charge my Guardian blobs and wipes them all out in a Sweeping Advance. Stupid Orks...

 Happyjew wrote:
You want an example of a Skimemr being forced to end its move on top of another unit? OK.

I surround a full 30-boy mob of Orks with my Guardian blobs (yes I run Guardian blobs, shut up). I decide to to Tank Shock the Boyz, hoping they will be force to Fall Back and die due to No Retreat. Since I have a Falcon (skimmer), I can move over my Guardians and try to Shock the Boyz. Unfortunately I forgot the Nob at the "front" of the mob has a Power Klaw, and it immobilizes my Falcon while it is over my Guardians. The Falcon is now forced to end its move on top of my Guardians. Skimmer special rule kicks in, and my Falcon instead ends it move on the other side of the Guardians. The Boyz then multi-charge my Guardian blobs and wipes them all out in a Sweeping Advance. Stupid Orks...

Nope.

A Tank Shock is an exception to the rule that enemy models cannot be moved through. Remember, though, that friendly models still cannot be moved through, so the Tank’s movement will be stopped if any friendly models are in the way.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kriswall wrote:
So... assuming the Skimmer rule DOES kick in...

I would scatter on top of enemy models, move the skimmer the minimum distance required to no longer be on top of those models and presumably end up right next to an enemy model, effectively within base to base contact. There is no implication that you move the extra inch away... the wording just says so you're no longer on top of the enemy models.

So, assuming the Skimmer rule works...

1. Place model
2. Scatter on top of enemy models
3. Move the minimum distance so you're no longer over an enemy model, effectively ending in bases to base contact.
4. Mishap due to being within one inch.

To avoid the mishap in this scenario, you need to demonstrate that "move the Skimmer the minimum distance so that no models are left underneath it" actually means "move the Skimmer the minimum distance so that no models are left underneath it and then move another inch".

Please read previous post, I already address this issue.

I'm not moving through the Guardians. I'm moving over them. As per the skimmer rules. You know, the one that says skimmers move over models and intervening terrain?

Tank shock clearly states that you end your move if you go to move through a friendly unit. They're no exception made for that, you cannot tank shock through a friendly unit. Even if you are allowed to move through you are still moving through them and the 2nd part kicks in. So it would ignore the first part of that sentence and the 2nd part would kick in. If you don't think it wouldn't start another thread regarding that specifically but it's clear that even though a skimmer is allowed to move through units, the tank shock states that moving through would stop you.

You don't even need the skimmer rule to be in effect, its two instances where even if you ignore the first part the second part kicks in.

Hollismason wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
You want an example of a Skimemr being forced to end its move on top of another unit? OK.

I surround a full 30-boy mob of Orks with my Guardian blobs (yes I run Guardian blobs, shut up). I decide to to Tank Shock the Boyz, hoping they will be force to Fall Back and die due to No Retreat. Since I have a Falcon (skimmer), I can move over my Guardians and try to Shock the Boyz. Unfortunately I forgot the Nob at the "front" of the mob has a Power Klaw, and it immobilizes my Falcon while it is over my Guardians. The Falcon is now forced to end its move on top of my Guardians. Skimmer special rule kicks in, and my Falcon instead ends it move on the other side of the Guardians. The Boyz then multi-charge my Guardian blobs and wipes them all out in a Sweeping Advance. Stupid Orks...

Nope.

A Tank Shock is an exception to the rule that enemy models cannot be moved through. Remember, though, that friendly models still cannot be moved through, so the Tank’s movement will be stopped if any friendly models are in the way.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kriswall wrote:
So... assuming the Skimmer rule DOES kick in...

I would scatter on top of enemy models, move the skimmer the minimum distance required to no longer be on top of those models and presumably end up right next to an enemy model, effectively within base to base contact. There is no implication that you move the extra inch away... the wording just says so you're no longer on top of the enemy models.

So, assuming the Skimmer rule works...

1. Place model
2. Scatter on top of enemy models
3. Move the minimum distance so you're no longer over an enemy model, effectively ending in bases to base contact.
4. Mishap due to being within one inch.

To avoid the mishap in this scenario, you need to demonstrate that "move the Skimmer the minimum distance so that no models are left underneath it" actually means "move the Skimmer the minimum distance so that no models are left underneath it and then move another inch".

Please read previous post, I already address this issue.

"The minimum distance so that no models are left underneath it" is the RAW. If a Skimmer has models underneath it, and move it the minimum distance + 1", then I haven't moved it the minimum distance. You seem to be reading "the minimum distance so that no models are left underneath it" as "the minimum distance so that it is at least 1" away from all enemy models". These are not the same thing. Please explain how you are moving the minimum distance so that no models are left underneath plus an extra inch.

Hollismason wrote:
Tank shock clearly states that you end your move if you go to move through a friendly unit. They're no exception made for that, you cannot tank shock through a friendly unit. Even if you are allowed to move through you are still moving through them and the 2nd part kicks in. So it would ignore the first part of that sentence and the 2nd part would kick in. If you don't think it wouldn't start another thread regarding that specifically but it's clear that even though a skimmer is allowed to move through units, the tank shock states that moving through would stop you.

You don't even need the skimmer rule to be in effect, its two instances where even if you ignore the first part the second part kicks in.

Why are you ignoring the fact that when skimmers move they move OVER models and terrain? If a skimmer tank shocks, it can do so with a friendly unit between it and its target, because it moves OVER the friendly unit.

 Kriswall wrote:

Hollismason wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
You want an example of a Skimemr being forced to end its move on top of another unit? OK.

I surround a full 30-boy mob of Orks with my Guardian blobs (yes I run Guardian blobs, shut up). I decide to to Tank Shock the Boyz, hoping they will be force to Fall Back and die due to No Retreat. Since I have a Falcon (skimmer), I can move over my Guardians and try to Shock the Boyz. Unfortunately I forgot the Nob at the "front" of the mob has a Power Klaw, and it immobilizes my Falcon while it is over my Guardians. The Falcon is now forced to end its move on top of my Guardians. Skimmer special rule kicks in, and my Falcon instead ends it move on the other side of the Guardians. The Boyz then multi-charge my Guardian blobs and wipes them all out in a Sweeping Advance. Stupid Orks...

Nope.

A Tank Shock is an exception to the rule that enemy models cannot be moved through. Remember, though, that friendly models still cannot be moved through, so the Tank’s movement will be stopped if any friendly models are in the way.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kriswall wrote:
So... assuming the Skimmer rule DOES kick in...

I would scatter on top of enemy models, move the skimmer the minimum distance required to no longer be on top of those models and presumably end up right next to an enemy model, effectively within base to base contact. There is no implication that you move the extra inch away... the wording just says so you're no longer on top of the enemy models.

So, assuming the Skimmer rule works...

1. Place model
2. Scatter on top of enemy models
3. Move the minimum distance so you're no longer over an enemy model, effectively ending in bases to base contact.
4. Mishap due to being within one inch.

To avoid the mishap in this scenario, you need to demonstrate that "move the Skimmer the minimum distance so that no models are left underneath it" actually means "move the Skimmer the minimum distance so that no models are left underneath it and then move another inch".

Please read previous post, I already address this issue.

"The minimum distance so that no models are left underneath it" is the RAW. If a Skimmer has models underneath it, and move it the minimum distance + 1", then I haven't moved it the minimum distance. You seem to be reading "the minimum distance so that no models are left underneath it" as "the minimum distance so that it is at least 1" away from all enemy models". These are not the same thing. Please explain how you are moving the minimum distance so that no models are left underneath plus an extra inch.

I did. Read the fething giant post which is clearly laid out and has rules specific quotes. It's literally like on this very page. I'm not going to just endlessly keep quoting myself.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Happyjew wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
Tank shock clearly states that you end your move if you go to move through a friendly unit. They're no exception made for that, you cannot tank shock through a friendly unit. Even if you are allowed to move through you are still moving through them and the 2nd part kicks in. So it would ignore the first part of that sentence and the 2nd part would kick in. If you don't think it wouldn't start another thread regarding that specifically but it's clear that even though a skimmer is allowed to move through units, the tank shock states that moving through would stop you.

You don't even need the skimmer rule to be in effect, its two instances where even if you ignore the first part the second part kicks in.

Why are you ignoring the fact that when skimmers move they move OVER models and terrain? If a skimmer tank shocks, it can do so with a friendly unit between it and its target, because it moves OVER the friendly unit.

Take it to another thread man, I just don't think it's a good example, first because it's electively deciding to do it and the skimmer rule is for FORCIBLY ending it's movement. Seriously, I don't mind arguing it but even if it was a example does it prove anything? Yes, it proves that if a circumstance any circumstance ends that skimmers move on top of someone else you have to move it.

I just don't think it's a good example. It's close but not quite. We want to get as close to the deepstrike scenario as possible.

Even if you did you still have this quasi issue of it stopping over another model and being placed before friendly unit, immobilized.

Your just ignoring the whole part about tank shock stopping if any of it's movement causing it to move into contact with a Friendly unit.

Hollismason wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:

Hollismason wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
You want an example of a Skimemr being forced to end its move on top of another unit? OK.

I surround a full 30-boy mob of Orks with my Guardian blobs (yes I run Guardian blobs, shut up). I decide to to Tank Shock the Boyz, hoping they will be force to Fall Back and die due to No Retreat. Since I have a Falcon (skimmer), I can move over my Guardians and try to Shock the Boyz. Unfortunately I forgot the Nob at the "front" of the mob has a Power Klaw, and it immobilizes my Falcon while it is over my Guardians. The Falcon is now forced to end its move on top of my Guardians. Skimmer special rule kicks in, and my Falcon instead ends it move on the other side of the Guardians. The Boyz then multi-charge my Guardian blobs and wipes them all out in a Sweeping Advance. Stupid Orks...

Nope.

A Tank Shock is an exception to the rule that enemy models cannot be moved through. Remember, though, that friendly models still cannot be moved through, so the Tank’s movement will be stopped if any friendly models are in the way.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kriswall wrote:
So... assuming the Skimmer rule DOES kick in...

I would scatter on top of enemy models, move the skimmer the minimum distance required to no longer be on top of those models and presumably end up right next to an enemy model, effectively within base to base contact. There is no implication that you move the extra inch away... the wording just says so you're no longer on top of the enemy models.

So, assuming the Skimmer rule works...

1. Place model
2. Scatter on top of enemy models
3. Move the minimum distance so you're no longer over an enemy model, effectively ending in bases to base contact.
4. Mishap due to being within one inch.

To avoid the mishap in this scenario, you need to demonstrate that "move the Skimmer the minimum distance so that no models are left underneath it" actually means "move the Skimmer the minimum distance so that no models are left underneath it and then move another inch".

Please read previous post, I already address this issue.

"The minimum distance so that no models are left underneath it" is the RAW. If a Skimmer has models underneath it, and move it the minimum distance + 1", then I haven't moved it the minimum distance. You seem to be reading "the minimum distance so that no models are left underneath it" as "the minimum distance so that it is at least 1" away from all enemy models". These are not the same thing. Please explain how you are moving the minimum distance so that no models are left underneath plus an extra inch.

I did. Read the fething giant post which is clearly laid out and has rules specific quotes. It's literally like on this very page. I'm not going to just endlessly keep quoting myself.

Thanks for cursing. You wrote, and I quote, "The minimum distance required specifically means the least amount of movement required to ensure this not happen, per the rules a model may not end it's move with in 1 inch of a enemy model." I would like to know how you are interpreting "the minimimun distance so that no models are underneath" to mean the least amount of movement required to ensure this not happen.

If I'm moving towards a unit, sure, I have to stop such that I'm not within 1". If I'm on top of a unit and have to move the minimum distance so that I'm no longer on top of it, I would clearly end within 1". I'd be right next to it, but not on top of it.

I don't understand why the general rules regarding moving TOWARDS a unit have anything to do with this more advanced Skimmer rule of how to move OFF of a unit.

Ugh, read what I actually wrote I'm not going to quote it again. Or gak you quote it. Like I don't know why I am suppose to give you a lecture on how the english language functions.

 Happyjew wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
Tank shock clearly states that you end your move if you go to move through a friendly unit. They're no exception made for that, you cannot tank shock through a friendly unit. Even if you are allowed to move through you are still moving through them and the 2nd part kicks in. So it would ignore the first part of that sentence and the 2nd part would kick in. If you don't think it wouldn't start another thread regarding that specifically but it's clear that even though a skimmer is allowed to move through units, the tank shock states that moving through would stop you.

You don't even need the skimmer rule to be in effect, its two instances where even if you ignore the first part the second part kicks in.

Why are you ignoring the fact that when skimmers move they move OVER models and terrain? If a skimmer tank shocks, it can do so with a friendly unit between it and its target, because it moves OVER the friendly unit.

Except that tank shocking is instead of moving normally. ie the skimmer rule doesn't apply as tank shocking is it's own special form of movement.

That's why I said take it to another thread, it's actually a good point , but I don't think it's a good example for an analogy.If the Tank would move into contact with a friendly model, enemy vehicle, impassable terrain or a board edge, it immediately stops moving 1" away. Is another thing it states. The skimmer rules do state it's allowed to move through friendly units. Contact in that instance would mean physical of some type.
It's a good point to make but it also just reinforces the " anything that would lead this to happen this kicks in".

Hollismason wrote:
Ugh, read what I actually wrote I'm not going to quote it again. Or gak you quote it. Like I don't know why I am suppose to give you a lecture on how the english language functions.

I've read exactly what you wrote. I agree that in general, a unit may not choose to end it's move within 1" on an enemy unit. However, if a Skimmer is forced to end it's move on top of an enemy unit, it would be moved the minimum distance so that no models are underneath it. If I'm 0.5" away from an enemy unit, are any models underneath it? If I'm 0.0" away from an enemy unit (i.e., base to base), are any models underneath it?

I'm not misreading or ignoring what you wrote. I'm challenging your logical leap that moves the Skimmer the minimum distance to fulfil the requirement, "no models are underneath it", and THEN adds an inch.

It's two things , for friendly units it is the absolute minimum, for Enemy units it is in fact 1 inch. Two different things it interacts two different ways depending on what the circumstance is. That is the required minimum for Enemy units and the Required Minimum for Friendlies.


Friendly - Minimum Distance is 0.1

Enemy - Minimum distance 1.0

A huge thing to note is that you don't mishap if you come with in 1 inch of a friendly model it's only enemy models.

This is verbatim from the rules

A model cannot move within 1" of an enemy model unless they are charging into close combat in the Assault phase.

 Kriswall wrote:

I'm not misreading or ignoring what you wrote. I'm challenging your logical leap that moves the Skimmer the minimum distance to fulfil the requirement, "no models are underneath it", and THEN adds an inch.

It is the same leap of logic made for scattering off of enemy units for the inertial guidance rule.

It's not a leap of logic it's literal logic.

Hollismason wrote:
It's not a leap of logic it's literal logic.

Ok... here's my full take with specific rules citations. All rules are quoted from the small rulebook.

Page 13 - Basic versus Advanced section - "Basic rules apply to all models in the game, unless stated otherwise." "Advanced rules apply to specific types of models, whether because they have a special kind of weapon... ...or because they are not normal infantry models." "Where advanced rules apply to a specific model, they always override any contradicting basic rules."

Page 18 - Models in the Way section - "A model cannot move within 1" of an enemy model unless they are charging into close combat in the Assault Phase, and can never move or pivot (see below) through another model (friend or foe) at any time."

Page 89 - Moving Skimmers section - "If a Skimmer is forced to end its move over friendly or enemy models, move the Skimmer the minimum distance so that no models are left underneath it."

Point 1 - The rule on page 18 dictating that a model cannot move within 1" of an enemy model is clearly a basic rule. It applies to all models in the game.
Point 2 - The rule on page 89 dictating Skimmer movement is clearly an advanced rule. It applies only to Skimmer type models.
Point 3 - The Skimmer rule, which is the more advanced rule, tells us to move the model the minimum distance so that no models are left underneath it. This would normally leave it immediately next to the enemy model.
Point 4 - The basic movement rule would normally prevent this from occurring, but thanks to the fact that advanced rules always override contradicting basic rules, the Skimmer follows the advanced rule and moves as the advanced rule on page 89 dictates... not as the more basic rule on page 18 would dictate.

I maintain that your best case scenario here is that you place the model, it scatters onto an enemy unit, you use the advanced rule (overriding normal movement rules) to move it the minimum distance such that you no longer have models underneath you, end the deep strike placement within 1" of an enemy unit and then immediately mishap.

Is you contention that the basic rule overrides the advanced rule as relates to how far you move the Skimmer?





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 megatrons2nd wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:

I'm not misreading or ignoring what you wrote. I'm challenging your logical leap that moves the Skimmer the minimum distance to fulfil the requirement, "no models are underneath it", and THEN adds an inch.

It is the same leap of logic made for scattering off of enemy units for the inertial guidance rule.

...

You aren't scattering OFF of enemy units. Inertial Guidance reduces the scatter to prevent a mishap. This would clearly reduce the scatter to stay at least an inch away. Inertial Guidance is entirely irrelevant in this instance.

That's not a override the statement
minimum distance so that no models are left underneath it.

Tell me now what is the minimum distance that you can place a model next to a enemy model.

What's the minimum distance it can be placed next to a friendly unit.

Nothing is overriding anything. The rule itself refers to the minimum distance which can be two diffirent numbers for different models. Which I've already stated and demonstrated.

You seem to think that the sentence just states, set the model so that it's not touching the models. This isn't what that means at all.

For example let's say we have WEAPON X, and when it his a vehicle that vehicle scatters 2D6 inches randomly.

You have a unit that is 10 inches away and you scatter onto it with a roll of 12.

Where do you place the model? All of this is a perfectly straight line.

The minimum distance would not in fact be on the other side of the model at 13 it would be before the unit at 8 inches.

Hollismason wrote:
That's not a override the statement
minimum distance so that no models are left underneath it.

Tell me now what is the minimum distance that you can place a model next to a enemy model.

What's the minimum distance it can be placed next to a friendly unit.

Nothing is overriding anything. The rule itself refers to the minimum distance which can be two diffirent numbers for different models. Which I've already stated and demonstrated.

You seem to think that the sentence just states, set the model so that it's not touching the models. This isn't what that means at all.

I actually think the sentence states "so that no models are left underneath it", which it actually does.

For example let's say we have WEAPON X, and when it his a vehicle that vehicle scatters 2D6 inches randomly.

You have a unit that is 10 inches away and you scatter onto it with a roll of 12.

Where do you place the model? All of this is a perfectly straight line.

The minimum distance would not in fact be on the other side of the model at 13 it would be before the unit at 8 inches.

Your example is a little confusing without an actual diagram.

If I end up on top of an enemy unit and I have to move 5 inches so that no models are left underneath it versus moving 6 inches so that no enemy unit is within 1"... which is the smaller number? Advanced rule says move 5". Basic rule says move 6". Advanced trumps basic. Move 5" and end your movement within 1" and therefore mishap.