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how powerful is a Grey Knight compared to Magnus

in pure psyker ability

LightKing wrote:
how powerful is a Grey Knight compared to Magnus

in pure psyker ability

Not very for the most part.

LightKing wrote:
how powerful is a Grey Knight compared to Magnus

in pure psyker ability

Laughably weak.

 Psienesis wrote:

LightKing wrote:
how powerful is a Grey Knight compared to Magnus

in pure psyker ability

Laughably weak.

obviously Magnus is more powerful then a standard grey knight

but by how much?

LightKing wrote:


obviously Magnus is more powerful then a standard grey knight

but by how much?

Considerably more powerful.

He could kill the average Grey Knight with a glance.

LightKing wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

LightKing wrote:
how powerful is a Grey Knight compared to Magnus

in pure psyker ability

Laughably weak.

obviously Magnus is more powerful then a standard grey knight

but by how much?

Like Void Dragon said, your average GK would die if Magnus thought about him dying. Like, GK is standing there, doot-dee-doo, Magnus walks by. GK explodes into a fountain of gore, because the thought of it briefly entered Magnus' mind.

Magnus is arguably the second most powerful psyker in history (After the Emperor). In terms of raw psychic power I doubt any Grey Knight can match him, to be honest.

The best gk psyker, is probably very comparable to a 30k 1k suns cult leader. Magnus is basically a warp god/prince pre daemonhood just like his pops.

A Single Thunder Warrior vs

A lone Astartes (Assume Legion Company Captain or modern Vet Sgt level): Massecre in favour of the TW, who is massively more powerful.

A Custodes: No contest, Custodes are simply above and beyond TW. Made using a refined version of TW tech, smarter and better trained.

Any Primarch bar Magnus, Angron, Vulkan or Ferrus: Primarch wins within 10 seconds, guarenteed.

Magnus: Shreds him with psychic powers beyond anything the TW has ever been designed against.

Angron- rips him into tiny pieces and looks for his next fight

Vulkan or Ferrus- crushed his head in one hand.




The Emperor: See above, x102, x23

nope. vulkan headbutts him and death insues.

 the shrouded lord wrote:
nope. vulkan headbutts him and death insues.

And then he'd cry because he killed a human.

and then he would brand himself in penance, and kill a ton of night lords.

 thenoobbomb wrote:

 the shrouded lord wrote:
nope. vulkan headbutts him and death insues.

And then he'd cry because he killed a human.

No, he wouldn't. Thunder Warriors are nod more human than Astartes and in a fight to the death Vulkan would not feel guilt.

If anything, this thread highlights the broken fluff that exists. We couldn't even convince people of how tall a space marine is despite the fluff specifically putting a clear number on that. People groped at vague statements to support wildly different numbers.

You then have examples of Custodes trashing astartes. Then an example of an unarmored astartes ripping open a custodes armor with his bare hands and tearing his spin out.

GW can't get its own fluff straight.

 PhillyT wrote:
If anything, this thread highlights the broken fluff that exists. We couldn't even convince people of how tall a space marine is despite the fluff specifically putting a clear number on that. People groped at vague statements to support wildly different numbers.

Still mad over other cases than your preferred one existing?

Marine sizes vary extremely heavily between book and book, and none is more canon.

No, because the majority of cases is consistent enough!

lol

IOW 'It must be the way I prefer it, if I don't like it it's objectively wrong!'

Well there is always a caveat with GW. They give anyone a strand to hang their particular interpretation.

 PhillyT wrote:
Well there is always a caveat with GW. They give anyone a strand to hang their particular interpretation.

Yep, a key part of the setting!

Assuming this is an honour battle similar to the Feast of Blades, I assume it would be:

1. Emperor
2. Primarch (any)
3. Custodes
4. Grey Knight
5. Thunder Warrior
6. Astartes

I just think the Thunder Warrior would take the Astartes purely because of the fact he could rip him in half with his arse cheeks.

Animus wrote:


I think it does, as it's a general statement, compared to specific individual fighters. What about when a naked Space Marine ripped out the heart of a full armed and armoured Custodian in the Outcast Dead?
Clearly it's dependent on the skill of the individual.

I don't think highlighting one of the hh most ridiculous moments does much to promote your cause, knives, axes and even chainswords don't go through ceremite easily but one world eater managed to do just that and rip out the heart of a custodes with ork aids. Outcast dead is a ridiculously poor book.

Not as bad as know no fear when all the astartes suffer from stormtrooper syndrome however.

I haven't read the new gk codec but I don't think gk's are on average more powerful than other space marines some of course are because they are powerful psykers but in emperor's gift the great wolf put them in their place, that's how I think they should be they are specialists and great at what they do but when fighting Orks, eldar and DE or necrons they are no better.

Why do you think Space Marines who double as competent psykers wouldn't be more powerful on average than normal Marines?

Also, you can't deny one poor book and then use another as a reference. The second half of The Emperor's Gift was pretty bad.

 PhillyT wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

LightKing wrote:

 PhillyT wrote:
Yeah, as the supped up chosen, Abaddon would beat an unpowered Horus. I mean didn't The Lion struggle against his Chaos infused Foster father?

do you think chaos amped abaddon vs. chaos amped horus would at least be an interesting fight

No, Horus would toss him around.

I can't imagine that would be the case. In the fluff, being chaos infused was enough to make sub-marines like Luthor a match or challenge for The Lion. Abaddon was already almost the size of Abaddon, I would imagine with all that power funneled in he would be above him.

Primarchs are strong enough to punch a Marine's head off, tank direct shots from lascannons, etc. Even fully empowered Abaddon would be turned into a paint smear by Horus before his empowerment.

The primarch of the Raven Guard turned with an inhuman cry, letting the thrumming wing-blades affixed to his smoking jetpack slice out with their killing edges. Word Bearers tumbled away in droves, shredded into lumps of armoured flesh. The claws followed, rending any of the grey warriors unlucky enough to be in range of the warlord's landing.

Once he was in motion, Corax never slowed. He was a blur of charcoal armour and black blades, carving, chopping, dismembering without effort, mutilating with the barest movement, butchering with an ease that belied his ferocity.

Lascannon fire rained towards the primarch as the Iron Warriors turned their turrets on the gravest threat in range. The Word Bearers caught in the net of streaming fire were sliced apart as surely as the ones killed by Corax's claws, but the beams themselves flashed aside from the primarch's armour, never striking it straight-on, leaving savage burn scars but never once penetrating.
- The First Heretic, pg. 444

Argel Tal, Space Marine who can react at low milisecond to even microsecond speeds, just sees Corax as a blur of motion in battle.

The primarch acted without hesitation. Stooping in his run, he snatched up a shard of rock. With a flick of his arm, With a flick of his arm, he hurled the stone at the Iron Warrior. As a dark blur it struck the Space Marine in the throat and erupted from the back of his neck, silently felling him.
- Shadows of Treachery, pg. 242

Primarchs are also strong enough to fling stones so hard that they can penetrate the soft armor of power armor and fully penetrate.

As far as an HH era battle would go, the TW would be superior in strength, speed, etc. But Astartes have more skill. An SW in his prime (15 years or so) compared to an Astartes in his prime (50-500 years) would be an easy battle. I think in order of an ordinary soldier at his best would go like this:
1.)the Emperor
2.)Horus
3.)Magnus
4)Angron
5.)Abaddon
6.)Luther
7.)"Normal" Primarchs/Legendary Chapter Master
8.) Adeptus Custodes/Chapter Master
9.) Grey Knights
10.) Astartes
11.) Thunder Warriors

Adeptus Custodes are the equivalent of a Space Marine Legion Master as far as skill, talent and training go. They are the best of the best of the best with the best gear and the best everything. The Grey Knights are the best of the best of the Psykers with the best Gear, etc. Horus - obvious. Angron - obvious. Magnus - Obvious (he was meant to replace the Emperor on the Golden Throne for Throne's sake) Abaddon - he may be a chosen but he started out as an ordinary, albeit skilled, Astartes warrior. Luther - Obvious Primarchs - obvious. Astartes - standard SM has more skill and more talent and more experience than average TW.

1 on 1
Abaddon and luther over umm normal primarchs. They weren't worth a piss in the time of primarchs, well koas infused luther was, sort of

Might as well believe that Sanguinius just knelt down to be choked by horus to stop the rage. which could or could not be a lie?
Magnus is next to useless, Hes got alzheimrs or something,

For the most part grey knights can only use powers when in a group. allah focused latent powers, otherwise just regular marines. Which thunder warriors were supposed to be immune to.

I put thunder warriors on a not quite refined custode levels. the fact that their upper body strength was stronger already gives them a edge 1 on 1. Any fool can point a gun

Since BL books are the bottom feeders of the fluff hierarchy, I'll go with the official sources and continue to accept the Custodes and Thunder Warriors over Astartes.

 PhillyT wrote:
Since BL books are the bottom feeders of the fluff hierarchy, I'll go with the official sources and continue to accept the Custodes and Thunder Warriors over Astartes.

That isn't how it works.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 PhillyT wrote:
Since BL books are the bottom feeders of the fluff hierarchy, I'll go with the official sources and continue to accept the Custodes and Thunder Warriors over Astartes.

That isn't how it works.

It indeed isn't how it works.

Also, I'd see it more like this.

Emperor
Primarch (any)
Astartes champions (Abaddon, Sigismund...)
Custodes
Grey Knights
Astartes
Thunder Warriors