Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 BrokenRecord wrote:
Like many Blood Angels players, the loss of Assault Marines has me extremely butt-hurt, but I think there are some silver linings.

Army-wide Furious Charge, when combined with the +1 Initiative from the formation will make us absolute beasts in the initial round of close combat, Mephiston might not be as much of a monster as before, but he will certainly be a power armor murdering death machine when properly buffed, and now that he's an Independent Character, you can actually use him without all kinds of funny business.

I remain cautiously optimistic about this one, and expect that there will be a supplement coming, announced or not.

Looks like we are going back to 3rd more than we thought with this codex. Furious charge in abundance, +1I for our charges and tactical squad troop choices.

Mephiston going down in Strength and Toughness by a notch is not a big deal since he is cheaper points wise and is now an Independent character that can join squads. He can still be strength 10 as well with his sword so he can still tear Land Raiders apart if you put in another unit with some big hitting weapons. I was hoping he would get AP2 as well but alas it's not to be.

On the other hand with Dante getting eternal warrior and striking his +S2 axe at inti, he is now literally awesome.

I kept wondering why you guys keep mentioning furious charge when warham's original warseer quote post specifically didn't say furious charge and instead said combat squads was the only army wide rule but it appears he edited it 30 minutes after posting. Having that in addition to the old previously standard initiative boost in one type of detachment (even if at the cost of obsec) is one positive note and a bit preparation H for the rest of the stuff we lost.

So we have another feather in the "wreck old armies and make the new codex extremely vanilla" cap potentially incoming. Gotta wait and see some more leaks, but this is not boding well. Blood Angels were my last hold out for something to get me back into the game. This is such a bummer to see happen.

Also, the very notion of selling you more rules to complete your already overpriced rules shouldn't be a thing to be excited about. If I'm paying $50 for army rules, a crazy concept in 2014 and gaming, then it should be complete and functional.

After reading these rules and reading what people are saying I see a lot of concern and complaining that the Blood Angels have been nerfed.

I think it is a normal reaction to think of change as a nerf. Anyone who actually thinks this is a nerf is really not thinking of how to work their army correctly. This is a massive boost. Sure, maybe the troop choice changes but now what is filling your fast attack slot? The baal predator is now a heavy support choice. So put your jump troops in the fast attack slot, and you will be fine.

Now for the points. The points have gone way down. The psychic powers are awesome. The special rules look great. This is a massive buff. The only thing I saw and really did not like was the fact that the land raiders are for terminator use only. Other than that, this codex is epic.

 warboss wrote:
I kept wondering why you guys keep mentioning furious charge when warham's original warseer quote post specifically didn't say furious charge and instead said combat squads was the only army wide rule but it appears he edited it 30 minutes after posting. Having that in addition to the old previously standard initiative boost in one type of detachment (even if at the cost of obsec) is one positive note and a bit preparation H for the rest of the stuff we lost.

I think it's because Furious Charge will be like Acute Senses and Counter Attack for Space Wolves. It won't be listed under army wide rules but it will appear in the majority of the unit entries.

Waaghschale from www.waaaghgaming.de has some more info bits. He is sharing them on a german forum atm

Gabriel Seth and Commander Dante are indeed Lords of War

Then the relics, I am translating what Waaaghschale could see on a poor photo. So careful with these

BA Relics:
– Wings of Angels: Model gets jump infantry. He and his unit may re-roll scatter AND mishap table results. Intercepting units may only make snapshot when shooting at this unit.
– Crown of Angels: Model causes fear and the test must be made by -2 on moral check.
– Gallian's Stave: +2S, AP4, Melee, Concussive, Force, Channeled Rolls: Re-roll 1s in psychic tests - although additional 1s do damage the bearer (hard to read) (unclear what it means)
– Blade of Courage: S Bearer, AP2, Melee
– Veritas Vitae: Bearer gets an additional warlord trait from Strategic Traits
– Fury of Baal: 12″, S7, AP2, Pistol, Mastercrafted, Plasma weapon but NO overheating/gets hot

Looks like Dante and Gabriel Seth are both LoW's now. The guy is back on warseer answering specific questions placed to him.

Warhams-77 wrote:
Waaghschale from www.waaaghgaming.de has some more info bits. He is sharing them on a german forum atm. First

Gabriel Seth and Commander Dante are indeed Lords of War

Then the relics, I am translating what Waaaghschale could see on a poor photo. So careful with these

BA Relics:
– Wings of Angels: Model gets jump infantry. He and his unit may re-roll scatter AND mishap table results. Intercepting units may only make snapshot when shooting at this unit.
– Engelskrone: Modell verursacht Angst und dieser Test wird mit -2 auf den MW durchgeführt.
– Gallian's Stave: +2S, AP4, Melee, Concussive, Force, Channeled Rolls: Re-roll 1s in psychic tests - although additional 1s do damage the bearer (hard to read) (unclear what it means)
– Blade of Courage: S Bearer, AP2, Melee
– Veritas Vitae: Bearer gets an additional warlord trait from Strategic Traits
– Fury of Baal: 12″, S2(?), AP2, Pistol, Mastercrafted (hard to read)

*Editing*

German blog says the pistol is S7. So its a mastercrafted plasmapistol without overheating.

Engelskrone: model causes fear and the test must be made by -2 on moral check.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
How about Assault Marines?

Thanks to both of you

Ooooo neet relics.


Those angel wings one might be interesting against intercepting tau

 wuestenfux wrote:
Engelskrone: model causes fear and the test must be made by -2 on moral check.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
How about Assault Marines?

ASM are no longer troops. Tacticals and scouts only.

Iuchiban posting again on Warseer

Does mephiston get an inv save ? At that toughness he looks too easy to ID. Will be praying for good biomancy rolls. Seems odd he got changed so much.
No Inv for Meph. S and T as a Centurion

Changes really don't look to bad so far, but I was hoping for some way to get fleet on some of our assault units :(

Re: Assault Marines. GW is telling you that you're better off with tacticals in this shooty edition.

Hopefully priests will be able to take bikes, then you can have a squad of bikers who get feel no pain against lascannon shots.

I am hoping priest are an HQ choice but you can take 1 per HQ choice like a techmarine.

a boy can dream!

Iubichan on Warseer

Thanks! So are standard Predators and Vindicators no longer Fast?

That's correct, but standard Predators can buy them at 10 points.

Points for relics are up:

- One jump pack that allows the bearer and his unit re-roll when DS and when other units Intercept -> Snapshots. (25)
- Gives Fear, and fear tests are done with -2 L (10)
- One item that gives an additional warlord trait strategic table. (15)
- One physic weapon +2S, AP4, bearar may re-roll 1 in the psychic phase. If rellod die is a 1, bearer takes one wound. No saves allowed. (10)
- One Master-crafted plasma pistol, that does not get hot. (25)
- One AP2 power sword. (25)

Everything so far looks to be about what anyone should have expected if you'd paid any attention to the CSM, DA, SW, and GK releases, no big surprises at all barring assault marines.

This is a consequence of the previous book going rather full-ham overboard in some areas (e.g. more access to heavy armor in more FoC slots than any other army including IG, etc). There was going to be some drastic scaling back and a lot of the niche-build armies aren't going to come through intact, just as things like Vendetta-spam IG armies didn't either.

On top of that, the BA's have always been a relatively Codex-adherent chapter, they don't have more assault marines than anyone else. I understand the imagery and differentiation GW went for with the WD list and the Ward-dex, and even I'm surprised they're dropping the Assault Marines as Troops, but I can see where they're coming from for it.

From the looks of it though, they're taking into account that Elites are very crowded, and the army-wide Init bonus will be very handy indeed against opposing MEQ/Eldar/Daemon foes.

Ultimately, perhaps aside from the change to Assault Marines, I don't think anyone should be surprised at all by most of these changes. We'll see if the expanded Elites allowance and Init bonus makes up for the removal/relocation of other options.

Well, I have a Deathstorm box sitting at my hobby store at this moment with my name on it. I am really debating even buying it at all since I was going to take the Blood Angels half. The utter BS of taking DC and the DC Dread and moving them into Elites just torpedoed my desire to own the box. I was looking forward to a jump army. I already have a transport based army tactical squad Space Marine army.

I am waiting for there to be something like what the Captain on a bike does but with Assault Marines or Death Company.

Very very disappointing.

I dont think Assault marines are all that surprising ether though considering the addition of EVERYONE SCORES!

Im surprised why they changed DC to suddenly score. (is there some kinda fluff reason before?) I dont recall.

 Desubot wrote:
I dont think Assault marines are all that surprising ether though considering the addition of EVERYONE SCORES!

Im surprised why they changed DC to suddenly score. (is there some kinda fluff reason before?) I dont recall.

When the rules for the current DC came out, they were Troops in an edition where only Troops could score and where there was a distinction between scoring units and denial units. Especially the latter is kind of a big deal, since now you can't even contest an objective if you are not a scoring unit.

one thing to note, if you want to take the squad from deathstorm, they are listed as troops. same for the DC dread.

Command Squads are Elites now, it seems.

Just like half the bloody codex.

Warhams-77 wrote:
Waaghschale from www.waaaghgaming.de has some more info bits. He is sharing them on a german forum atm

Gabriel Seth and Commander Dante are indeed Lords of War

Then the relics, I am translating what Waaaghschale could see on a poor photo. So careful with these

BA Relics:
– Blade of Courage: S Bearer, AP2, Melee
– Fury of Baal: 12″, S7, AP2, Pistol, Mastercrafted, Plasma weapon but NO overheating/gets hot

And here we have AP2 everything Mephiston

Losing assault marines as troops hurts but overall the codex is sounding fairly solid. It's really going to change the way I play the army but that's not necessarily a bad thing...

Do our storm ravens keep blood strike missiles do we know? With the Baal Pred and Storm Raven both in heavy, those slots are going to be in high demand....

D

 BrokenRecord wrote:
Like many Blood Angels players, the loss of Assault Marines has me extremely butt-hurt, but I think there are some silver linings.

What do you mean by "loss" of Assault Marines?

[EDIT]: Wait, BA's don't get Assault Marines as Troops any more? And they just happen to release a new Tactical Squad for BA's? Must be a coincidence.

sorry but this whole "assasult marines no longer troops" annoys me

BeeCee wrote:
one thing to note, if you want to take the squad from deathstorm, they are listed as troops. same for the DC dread.

Question: Would the worldwide +1I make Power Fists and Thunder Hammmers hit at I2 or would they still be I1?

Considering that Cassor the Damned is pretty much your average DC Dread, putting him in troops won't hurt at all.

Does anyone get the idea that the teams that worked on Deathstorm we're using the old codex and some notes about the new one?