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On the note of Deathstorm, it is 7xx pionts for the angels vs Nids 5xx points. But I would like to thank GW for the new toys.

#1 Mephiston getting IC is what everyone has been screaming for since 5th,
#2 saved me a crap ton of money with only having to buy bits for my assault marines now turned tactical, Because lets face it we really just used the assaults with no jump packs for the cheap razorback or free drop pod. (plus now i have to go shooting without question now due to all the new toys tactical s get)
#3 new relics
#4 Some fluffy psychic powers
#5 Dante, where can I start here if he keeps his no scatter drop welcome to the first auto include LOW, With every freaking BA army I mean honor guard this guy i used before sometimes, BUT now i mean wow ya the dust is blown off and welcome to the big time my man.
#6 So we just got Mephiston joining units along with Dante coming in on the flank/ behind for some real hurtin. so we now have 2 solid viable attack options in our armies.
#7 We all seen this coming some change to the tactics used that has happened with every army mostly for the better so far this year. Anyone that did not think this was going to happen must have been asleep since MAY.
#8 Mephiston just became the new ally face for the Blood Angels, if a new sculpt comes out within 6 months then we will see him all over the place in every game.

I might pick up 1-2 boxes of tacts but nothing over the top, did not lose anything I mean all the models I bought i can still use and was not removed from the codex (sorry Dark Eldar ) In the end something had to give and I would rather lose what I did then lose something bigger. ( taking advise of magnetizing the plastic minis like everyone else in my area did really saved me some $$ now no need for replaint on this army.

Has there been any confirmation, if BA has drop pods in fast attack like space wolves? (meaning can you buy empty pods and put allies in them?)

 Frankenberry wrote:
Silly question, and I may have missed it, but do LR's still have deepstrike?

Awesome question. I haven't seen anything on this 100-page thread about this. Not that anyone did it before, but this is a clear example of Ward's influence on the previous edition. I bet it's gone.

Fireraven wrote:
On the note of Deathstorm, it is 7xx pionts for the angels vs Nids 5xx points.

725 pts v. 555 pts. Like I have said in some of my other posts, I will DEFINITELY be fielding Cassor the Damned (the Deathstorm Death Company Dreadnought) as a Troops choice, at least for now.

EDIT: You know what kinda sucks? Blood Angels don't have a small format codex coming out. I would've liked that better than the regular size book since they are more portable.

 DarthOvious wrote:
All I'm asking for is that you don't state your personal opinion as fact.

A fact is an opinion that no one can present a logical counter-argument against.

- - - - - -

On a positive note, aside from the utterly soul crushing buttsmashing of my assault marine army, I like the majority of the changes in the codex. Sneaky GW making Dante awesome just in time to make him a LoW.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Fireraven wrote:
On the note of Deathstorm, it is 7xx pionts for the angels vs Nids 5xx points.

725 pts v. 555 pts. Like I have said in some of my other posts, I will DEFINITELY be fielding Cassor the Damned (the Deathstorm Death Company Dreadnought) as a Troops choice, at least for now.

EDIT: You know what kinda sucks? Blood Angels don't have a small format codex coming out. I would've liked that better than the regular size book since they are more portable.

Ya but having a new Rule book with The awesome face of the BA was a hell of a lot better then a NID one.
i carry a suitcase most the time with me on rollers with a lap top as well. when i find out what i play against i pull out their codex with the last FAQ printed out in it , look up see if a new faq for the army was released, then skimm over there best units to see what I need to remove first or just let sit until i do kill what is most important. most important do not shoot at their bullet sink take out what will win them the game in the end first.

I'm going to get blasted for this by those in this threadnought, but I really don't give a good-gott-dang, so listen up:

Blood Angels, like EVERY LOYALIST SPACE MARINE ARMY EXCEPT FOR SPACE WOLVES AND BLACK TEMPLARS*, are a Codex Astartes adherent chapter.

*I know there are a handful of others, but they're quite niche and almost never seen

Meaning: ASSAULT MARINES SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN TROOPS IN THE FIRST PLACE.

When the abomination that was the last Blood Angels codex came out, I purchased it, read it, and accepted it for what it was. Pure Bull Gak. All the new, in my humble opinion, STUPID new characters (The Sanguinor??.. Really Matt Ward? REALLY?..), assault marines as troops?? Seriously? (Though that much didn't bother me *quite* as much, it still stuck in my craw pretty hard.) Blood-this, Blood-that, Blood-socks, Blood-pods, Blood-packs, the naming conventions were juvenile at best and stupid at worst. Deep striking Land Raiders. That, alone, nearly made me throw the codex in the trash when I saw it. The chapters most valuable and powerful armored vehicles and you're going to hot drop them off of a transport Thunderhawk?? REALLY Matt Ward? Really?... And the Codex cover art was the worst of any BA Codex to date as well to boot. Ugh...

Blood Angels were my first army, they're my FAVORITE chapter and always have been. You want to know how many games I've played with the (now) old version of the Blood Angels codex? Exactly one. ONE GAME with my favorite army since the last codex came out because I actively didn't enjoy playing the army I love due of shoddy writing and bull-gak that they did to the fluff in the previous version of the BA codex.

This codex, however, I welcome it with open arms. I rejoice in it, and thank the Emperor for finally returning the noble Sons of Sanguinius to their previous, rightful state.

FINALLY, I can look at my army and not feel ashamed at the STUPIDLY juvenile writing. FINALLY, I can run tactical marines again (as I did in my one game under the old codex, and all previous games in the 3rd edition codex) because that's what a Blood Angels army should have in it as their primary troops choices and not have people look at me sideways for not running assault marines as my troops. Yes, I ran Assault Marines as well, but as FAST ATTACK, and no more than 2 of them as my 5th Battle Company force doesn't have more than 2 squads.

I feel for people who painted up an army that has been somewhat/partially or even completely invalidated, but come on, you can't tell me you didn't see this coming. GW has been trending this way with codex writing for YEARS now, ever since 6th edition hit, and pardon me for seeming callous but the writing has been on the wall for a long, long while now. Assault Marines were NEVER going to remain troops.

People screaming angst or butthurt because "The Identity of the Blood Angels has been ruined!!1!1!"... PLEASE.

The Identity of the Blood Angels was ruined when that book full of PURE Gak that Matt Ward gave us was published and released. We're getting our identity back after seven LONG years of it languishing in the land of stupid and poor writing that made me ashamed to count myself as a Blood Angel.

I'm genuinely EXCITED to finish off my Imperial Guard and start rebuilding my Blood Angels. Finally, I can return to playing a Marine Army I like. Finally, I can look with Pride at my balanced force of Tactical Marines, Devastator Marines, and Assault Marines and smile.

Finally, I can once again say:

FOR THE EMPEROR, AND SANGUINIUS!!

Take it easy for now, everyone.

-Red__Thirst-
One Happy Blood Angels player.

P.S. Dante FINALLY has Eternal Warrior!!!!!! They made him the proper Lord of the Host he should have been all along. That fact alone makes me happier than I've been in a long, long while. Good on ya Gee-Dub. Good on ya.

 troa wrote:
No real access to better AA is quite annoying. Perhaps that's just because my other army is GK...haha. I'm okay with tacs and scouts as troops though, I usually did that anyway .

I think Flak missiles were the only addition by the looks of it.

 DarthOvious wrote:

 troa wrote:
No real access to better AA is quite annoying. Perhaps that's just because my other army is GK...haha. I'm okay with tacs and scouts as troops though, I usually did that anyway .

I think Flak missiles were the only addition by the looks of it.

The stormraven is still there, and that does a pretty decent job at AA. Another option could be the stormwing formation (1 stormraven and 2 storm talons). Blood Angels will be allgood for AA

It's assasine that assault marines are no longer troops for BA . It's the equivalent of white scars not having bikes as troops or DA and GK no longer having terminators as troops .

It's such a monumental stupid decision on so many levels it's hard to describe how I feel about it .

GW really does not care about the consumer , no matter how many apologist try to spin their dumb decisions .

I'm sure BA players will get a data slate they have to pay for so they can all be forced into the same assault jump pack build .

GW invalidating thousands of dollars and countless hours of their customers time since 1989 ......SMH

 DarthOvious wrote:

 troa wrote:
No real access to better AA is quite annoying. Perhaps that's just because my other army is GK...haha. I'm okay with tacs and scouts as troops though, I usually did that anyway .

I think Flak missiles were the only addition by the looks of it.

And all of zero people will be taking them too.

Blood Angels should have NEVER had Assault Marines as troops. The only asinine thing that I can see, other than deep striking land raiders... UGH... was Assault Marines as troops choices.

I feel for people who did up the whole jump pack army, but Tactical Squads have been troops choices for WAY longer than assault marines, and still were in the previous crap.. I mean.. Codex.

That said, you can STILL run your all jump pack army as an Unbound list with ZERO issue. So other than losing Objective Secured, you still get all the benefits of your list from the previous list with the added benefit of your average Assault Marine being cheaper.

Forgive me, but I can't see much issue in that, and can't understand all the rage. Your list isn't invalidated, it just has to be played under the unbound format. If you don't like it, then paint up ten Tactical Marines, or Scouts, and run them as your minimal troop choices and keep on trucking.

Just my thoughts.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Really, you can run a mostly JP army even with Battleforged. Sure, you will have to pay the troops tax (I am hoping for Scouts with an LSS being a thing), but you can have the following:

4x 5-10 Sanguinary Guard/30? Death Company/5-10 Vanguard Veterans
1x Raphen's Death Company
3x Assault Squads

That is a pretty good amount of JP Infantry. Sure, you are going to have to reformulate your army some, but that was kind of expected. And we still could be seeing a Formation or two coming.

 Red__Thirst wrote:
Blood Angels should have NEVER had Assault Marines as troops. The only asinine thing that I can see, other than deep striking land raiders... UGH... was Assault Marines as troops choices.

I feel for people who did up the whole jump pack army, but Tactical Squads have been troops choices for WAY longer than assault marines, and still were in the previous crap.. I mean.. Codex.

That said, you can STILL run your all jump pack army as an Unbound list with ZERO issue. So other than losing Objective Secured, you still get all the benefits of your list from the previous list with the added benefit of your average Assault Marine being cheaper.

Forgive me, but I can't see much issue in that, and can't understand all the rage. Your list isn't invalidated, it just has to be played under the unbound format. If you don't like it, then paint up ten Tactical Marines, or Scouts, and run them as your minimal troop choices and keep on trucking.

Just my thoughts.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

You want to wipe out almost a decade of them being used as troops. You want to erase the fluff and set the clock back and , you guys keep talking about the codex astartes , how about bike choices as troops for white scars ? How about terminators for dark angels ?

For goodness sakes the cover of the book has an assault marine ! It's iconic , you can't set the clock back a decade like this . As far as not understanding , I have no idea how others play . I don't play unbound . I am a tournament player . I know how to play BA, Eldar , Necrons , Chaos and won tournaments with all of them . Taking out assault as troops gives me zero reason to use the codex as vanilla marines do whatever the "blah " angels now do but better . Space wolves provide much better assault choices if I'm going to use fast attack,
There are many BA players that used DOA assault marine builds . Get use to the complaints and people quitting over it .

 Red__Thirst wrote:
Blood Angels should have NEVER had Assault Marines as troops.

But they did, and profited greatly from doing so- thus "how things were" three editions ago is irrelevant.

That said, you can STILL run your all jump pack army as an Unbound list with ZERO issue.

Many gaming groups and tournaments don't allow unbound.

Forgive me, but I can't see much issue in that, and can't understand all the rage.

"I spent hundreds of dollars and man-hours building this army and using this playstyle, and Games Workshop just invalidated it for no reason other then to push some new kit. Now in order to use this army I've spent hundreds of dollars and man-hours building, and have been playing for years, I have to hope my gaming group allows me to use this idiotic Unbound system which opens the flood-gates for stupid lists like three Warhound titans or 60 one-man units of henchmen-psykers."

Hope that clears things up for you.

As much as I loved the idea of a DOA it never worked well. I mean razor backs and assault marines was common. Assault squads with jump packs not a lot. Sang guard, dc, honor guard was way more likely to be used with jump packs then assaults. Out of all my jump packs squads only 10 actually had there jump packs on, they was my vanguard vets. And the others was my honor guard. Dc is diffrent I have over 40 with jump packs on, now they seem to be cheaper so that maybe my punch again. Baal preds backed by assaults never was good, ball preds backed by very versitile tach squads and razors or rhinos is. I started using tacs more then assaults in razors almost 2 years ago now. And now they can have da man attached with them with please come get some cc with us action.

mk2 wrote:You want to wipe out almost a decade of them being used as troops. You want to erase the fluff and set the clock back and , you guys keep talking about the codex astartes , how about bike choices as troops for white scars ? How about terminators for dark angels ?

For goodness sakes the cover of the book has an assault marine ! It's iconic , you can't set the clock back a decade like this . As far as not understanding , I have no idea how others play . I don't play unbound . I am a tournament player . I know how to play BA, Eldar , Necrons , Chaos and won tournaments with all of them . Taking out assault as troops gives me zero reason to use the codex as vanilla marines do whatever the "blah " angels now do but better . Space wolves provide much better assault choices if I'm going to use fast attack,
There are many BA players that used DOA assault marine builds . Get use to the complaints and people quitting over it .

Yes, I do want to wipe that abomination of a codex out of existence and for all the fluff crap that the codex had, it STILL listed Blood Angels Battle Companies as having 6x Tactical Squads and 2x Assault Squads. So your fluff argument for them is invalid except for the ONE company which is formed of nothing but Assault Marines. As for your comparison to White Scars and Dark Angels, that's apples to oranges. Both fruit, but very different fruit. As I said, make your army tournament legal by fielding ten Scouts or Tactical Marines. You can put almost the same number of assault marines on the table. Hell you may even be able to put slightly more on the table now since they got a price drop across the board. Adapt and overcome man, it's not the end of the world.

BlaxicanX wrote:But they did, and profited greatly from doing so- thus "how things were" three editions ago is irrelevant.

Abusing a one trick pony results in this kind of thing happening over time as editions change. It's literally happened to nearly every one trick pony that the 'competitive crowd' makes popular since what, 3rd edition? That's how it's relevant.

BlaxicanX wrote:Many gaming groups and tournaments don't allow unbound.

Well then my above statement to MK2 applies here as well. Grab 10 Tactical Marines or Scouts and stick them in terrain. Coupled with cheaper marines across the board letting you put just as many if not more jump packs on the table... Problem solved IMO.

BlaxicanX wrote:"I spent hundreds of dollars and man-hours building this army and using this playstyle, and Games Workshop just invalidated it for no reason other then to push some new kit. Now in order to use this army I've spent hundreds of dollars and man-hours building, and have been years playing, I have to hope my gaming group allows me to use this idiotic Unbound system which opens the flood-gates for stupid lists like three Warhound titans or 60 one-man units of henchmen-psykers."

Yet again, make some tweaks and adjustments if you don't want to play unbound. It's not *THAT* hard is it?? I mean seriously man, this happens to *every* army when a new codex releases. Adjustments/tweaks need to happen. It happened to my Guard with the new Guard codex came out, and it's happened to, what, EVERY other army in 40k when they've gotten a new codex.

BlaxicanX wrote:Hope that clears things up for you.

Hopefully logic has cleared things up here for you too, bud.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Edit: Formatting error correction.
Edit 2: Spelling corrections.

Have we heard whether or not Corbulo or Lemartes are still in the Codex? They still sell their models on their website!

 Red__Thirst wrote:
Blood Angels should have NEVER had Assault Marines as troops. The only asinine thing that I can see, other than deep striking land raiders... UGH... was Assault Marines as troops choices.

I feel for people who did up the whole jump pack army, but Tactical Squads have been troops choices for WAY longer than assault marines, and still were in the previous crap.. I mean.. Codex.

That said, you can STILL run your all jump pack army as an Unbound list with ZERO issue. So other than losing Objective Secured, you still get all the benefits of your list from the previous list with the added benefit of your average Assault Marine being cheaper.

Forgive me, but I can't see much issue in that, and can't understand all the rage. Your list isn't invalidated, it just has to be played under the unbound format. If you don't like it, then paint up ten Tactical Marines, or Scouts, and run them as your minimal troop choices and keep on trucking.

Just my thoughts.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

There's one full company of Assault Marines, plus two squads in each battle company.

You know how many companies of Ravenwing the Dark Angels have? Or Deathwing?

Exactly.

It's one damn company of each. And yet they can be taken as Troops. You do realize why that is, don't you? So there's a reason to play Dark Angels. So you can make those armies instead of just another vanilla army painted differently.

And some of us actually like to events and play there, where Unbound doesn't exist.


Besides a couple of idiotic gimmicks with allies, I can't see a single reason to keep running Blood Angels. This codex is pathetic.

I thought the codex astartes dictated that all marines be trained to perform all roles, and then be given the roles necessary to win the battle? Exactly how far back are we extending the fluff argument?

Personally, i think they needed to remove assault marines from troops, as it highlighted the problems with tactical marines too much.

Any word of fast attack choice drop pods for BA?

 Red__Thirst wrote:
Yet again, make some tweaks and adjustments if you don't want to play unbound. It's not *THAT* hard is it?? I mean seriously man, this happens to *every* army when a new codex releases. Adjustments/tweaks need to happen. It happened to my Guard with the new Guard codex came out, and it's happened to, what, EVERY other army in 40k when they've gotten a new codex.

Y'all need to stop telling people who've spend hundreds of dollars and hours building armies that GW invalidated with a single rules change that it's not such a big deal.

And it didn't happen to your Guard army. They didn't suddenly make Infantry Platoons an Elite choice.

When I said I had no BA assault marines, I meant tacticals. I will no longer be able to build a legal army after this weekend. Sweet.

Literally super happy with every other change. Except no asm troops. Hard not to feel a bit frustrated.

Corbulo is, yes. He gives +1 to WS and Initiative in a 6" bubble around him (though it may be 12", Not sure) as well as FnP to the squad. There may be more to him, not sure at the moment.

Standard Sanguiniary Priests are +1 to WS and FnP to the units they join, as they are Independent Characters again, but are HQ choices vs. previously being Elite choices.

As for Lemartes, I'd be surprised if he's been axed from the codex, as Sanguinor and Astorath made the cut. I hoped the Sanguinor would disappear, but what can ya do. So Lemartes's fate is to-be-determined. I would be curious to know what updates he got to his rules, though.

Hope that helps.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Any word on black rage or red thirst? Are there any rules for them anymore? Also any fast drop pods in the codex to abuse with other codexes?

 masquerade81 wrote:
Any word on black rage or red thirst? Are there any rules for them anymore? Also any fast drop pods in the codex to abuse with other codexes?

No word on a transport in fast attack. Red thirst has been replaced with straight furious charge. Black rage is now just rage on death company and death co dreads.

Thud wrote:There's one full company of Assault Marines, plus two squads in each battle company.

You know how many companies of Ravenwing the Dark Angels have? Or Deathwing?

Exactly.

It's one damn company of each. And yet they can be taken as Troops. You do realize why that is, don't you? So there's a reason to play Dark Angels. So you can make those armies instead of just another vanilla army painted differently.

And some of us actually like to events and play there, where Unbound doesn't exist.


Besides a couple of idiotic gimmicks with allies, I can't see a single reason to keep running Blood Angels. This codex is pathetic.

Yea... And you know what you have to do to field Deathwing and/or Ravenwing and get those Termies and Bikes as troops choices?? Pay for and field a named character that costs at least 150 points or more.

Conveniently, that's about as much as a full 10 man squad of basic tactical marines costs. My point for bringing this up is, in order for those armies to be fielded, they have to have something purchased/used for them to work. You have to do this with a Tactical or Scout Squad in the Blood Angels codex now if you want to go jump pack crazy. In closing, you don't like it, don't play the army, or play unbound with friends and only break the two five man Tactical or Scout squads out when you go to tournaments. Seriously, how hard is it to understand?

H.B.M.C. wrote:[Y'all need to stop telling people who've spend hundreds of dollars and hours building armies that GW invalidated with a single rules change that it's not such a big deal.

And it didn't happen to your Guard army. They didn't suddenly make Infantry Platoons an Elite choice.

H.B.M.C.: I never said it wasn't a big deal, I've said, repeatedly, that I feel for the people who's armies were invalidated as they currently have them in this very thread. That said, people need to take a breath and realize their army, with ONE small tweak, will still be able to be run in a very similar fashion to how it currently runs, if not identically. Plug in two 5 man squads of Scouts or Tactical Marines and then build your army. It's that easy. Even if you used 6 squads of Assault Marines, you can put 3 in Fast Attack, and 3 in Elites as Vanguard Veterans. Plug in whatever HQ choice you want, slap some jump pack Death Company in the 4th Elite slot and bingo, you're battleforged.

Lastly, it DID happen to my personal guard army, though not in the exact same way. I had two fully painted vehicles, that GW has even produced a model for in previous editions (Griffons) and are admittedly OOP now, removed from the codex. I had another unit completely changed and rendered useless/obsolete that I previously used in every game. (Why would I ever run Wyrdvane Psykers when I can put a Primaris Psyker on the board at the same mastery level for 10 points less? He's an IC, so he can hide in a squad and have ablative wounds, has an Invulnerable save, has a better stat line, and is still cheaper than a full 10 man squad of Wyrdvane Psykers when upgraded to Mastery Level 2.)

I'm trying to look at this objectively and provide counter-points to people screaming that this codex is trash when, in reality and compared to other codex releases so far, it really isn't. At least not in my opinion.

That's all I've got to add. Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

If you build your army to that edition's codex then you will always be screwed over by GW. Happens every time. Build your army with the long view over multiple editions.

I find myself a bit amused and perplexed by my fellow BA players. How do so many of you not have any Tactical marines? They come in every starter box. Even players without a marine army have a squad or two lying around.

Anyway, I'm immune from the change since I built a Company. I have six squads of Tacticals and Two squads of Assault. I rarely if ever don't have a least one Tactical squad on the table. My biggest problem is 7th has killed any desire to play the game. I'll only pick up the codex and wait for 8th I guess.

People dont have tactical marines because they are terrible.

And they continue to be terrible.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
If you build your army to that edition's codex then you will always be screwed over by GW. Happens every time. Build your army with the long view over multiple editions.

I find myself a bit amused and perplexed by my fellow BA players. How do so many of you not have any Tactical marines? They come in every starter box. Even players without a marine army have a squad or two lying around.

Anyway, I'm immune from the change since I built a Company. I have six squads of Tacticals and Two squads of Assault. I rarely if ever don't have a least one Tactical squad on the table. My biggest problem is 7th has killed any desire to play the game. I'll only pick up the codex and wait for 8th I guess.

Thank you.

Have an exalt, sir.

It's boggling to me that people can't see this simple fact. Two 5 man squads of Tactical Marines with bolters, or two five man squads of Scouts armed for hand-to-hand that you use for counter-infiltrate and then use to grab an objective or put pressure on a flank. Scouts with Furious Charge and BP/CCW are a fun option to run in my mind.

Just my thoughts. Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Edits: Sleepy spelling errors FTW...