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 WisdomLS wrote:
Word has it that Sanguinary priest can no longer take terminator armour :-( there goes my cool and expensively put together conversion. Thanks GW you really know how to spoil your loyal customers and make them happy.

Got a source for this? I can believe it, as there's not a model, but it seems stupid when every other HQ choice presumably has full armoury access for PA, TDA and AA.

WayneTheGame wrote:
Dark Angels are *NOT* a Codex chapter, which is why they get Terminators as troops (Deathwing) and Bikes as troops (Ravenwing).

But they only have one company of each of those, and the rules to let you use those companies. Just like 8th Company in a codex chapter.

Anyway, I'm still salty.

Probably gonna house rule ASM into troops for BA still anyhow, it's just dumb how much house ruling we have to do because the designers are incredibly unqualified for their jobs.

House Ruling does seem to be the way forward - as long as everyone gets to do it and not just to boost one army


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Paradigm wrote:

 WisdomLS wrote:
Word has it that Sanguinary priest can no longer take terminator armour :-( there goes my cool and expensively put together conversion. Thanks GW you really know how to spoil your loyal customers and make them happy.

Got a source for this? I can believe it, as there's not a model, but it seems stupid when every other HQ choice presumably has full armoury access for PA, TDA and AA.

If there is no model for it - that option may be dead

Just wanted to pop in and remind everyone that I was right. Everyone ignored me or dismissed me as just being "negative" when I tried to warn you that a BA update wouldn't be what you expected, you ignored the obvious trend with every army update ever since Orks came out, but not only did the codex get the predictable "7th edition sidegrade/blandification treatment", it got kicked way harder in the nuts than even I was expecting.

Yes I want a cookie.

 Kosake wrote:

 Thud wrote:
We all understand the concept of minimum troop requirements, so stop acting like we don't. It's doing nothing but making you look like a colossal idiot.

But I can do that with vanilla marines too. And there's a reason why I picked BA as my army and haven't bought a single Tactical Squad so far. I also understand that Scouts are usable. I'm not dense, but it's clearly too hard for you to see that that's not the point. And I'm sure there will be viable ways to run Blood Angels with this new codex, but that's also the case for Necrons and Tyranids, neither of which I'm interested in playing.

And as for needing characters for unlocking DW and RW? Gee, thanks for letting me know, I was totally unaware of that. And that's, like, totally the same because a character on a bike in an army of bikes doesn't, like, fit in at all.

I have about 8,000 points of Blood Angels. I used to have about 2,000 points of Troops. Now I have zero points of Troops. Of my 8,000 points I literally cannot make a legal battle forged army.

Not a marines player myself I can still sympathesize with Thud here. The assault troops were kind-of iconic for Blood Angels. Without them they are just normal marines with some special characters and gear. Another two steps down that road and you can just cram them into the generic space marine codex with some chapter tactic and death company as unique units and call it done.

Completely agree. I'm still kicking myself for falling into this trap with grey knights, where they invalidated my army so I went and bought more... I'm finding it very hard to be a GW fan boy these days. White dwarf used to be a font of hobby knowledge as well... And now the internet is generally so much better. GW have not adapted well, and by the looks of it, will not do

natpri771 wrote:
1. White Scars take bikes as troops, why aren't you complaining about that?

ALL Codex space marine Chapters can take troops on bikes if they take a Space Marine Chapter Master or Captain on a bike.

Blood Angels iconic "thing" has always been Death Company, not assault marines.

 Paradigm wrote:

 WisdomLS wrote:
Word has it that Sanguinary priest can no longer take terminator armour :-( there goes my cool and expensively put together conversion. Thanks GW you really know how to spoil your loyal customers and make them happy.

Got a source for this? I can believe it, as there's not a model, but it seems stupid when every other HQ choice presumably has full armoury access for PA, TDA and AA.

I read it on Faeit's rules roundup so no more reliable than all the other rumors we're discussing.

Well I am down to few questions...
1] Did Scouts get the Land Speeder Storm?
2] Does Honor Squad/Command Squad get jump Packs?
3] What is up with the Glaives?

Beyond that it looks like this might be my set up:
Dante
Sanguinary Priest [JP] x2
Honor Guar [PJ]
Tactical Squad [Flamer/Heavy Flamer] x2-4
Assault Squad x2
Stormraven

I might add a pair of Baal Predators and a few Dreads.

 adamsouza wrote:

natpri771 wrote:
1. White Scars take bikes as troops, why aren't you complaining about that?

ALL Codex space marine Chapters can take troops on bikes if they take a Space Marine Chapter Master or Captain on a bike.

Blood Angels iconic "thing" has always been Death Company, not assault marines.

After this, I wouldn't put money on that staying a thing either with the next SM codex.

 Sidstyler wrote:
Yes I want a cookie.

You were right

 Red__Thirst wrote:

 Crimson Devil wrote:
If you build your army to that edition's codex then you will always be screwed over by GW. Happens every time. Build your army with the long view over multiple editions.

I find myself a bit amused and perplexed by my fellow BA players. How do so many of you not have any Tactical marines? They come in every starter box. Even players without a marine army have a squad or two lying around.

Anyway, I'm immune from the change since I built a Company. I have six squads of Tacticals and Two squads of Assault. I rarely if ever don't have a least one Tactical squad on the table. My biggest problem is 7th has killed any desire to play the game. I'll only pick up the codex and wait for 8th I guess.

Thank you.

Have an exalt, sir.

It's boggling to me that people can't see this simple fact. Two 5 man squads of Tactical Marines with bolters, or two five man squads of Scouts armed for hand-to-hand that you use for counter-infiltrate and then use to grab an objective or put pressure on a flank. Scouts with Furious Charge and BP/CCW are a fun option to run in my mind.

Just my thoughts. Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Edits: Sleepy spelling errors FTW...

You know what else is mind boggling ? That you have no idea most tournaments are battle forged single CAD only ( double source ) . Mainly because of how broken the rule set is for competitive play overall with all armies .

Since you clearly work for GW please tell your buddies that next time they make a codex let actual players make it and not modelers and accountants .

Such doom. Much gloom.

Looking forward to more unique BA builds. Honestly, I'm excited.

 adamsouza wrote:

natpri771 wrote:
1. White Scars take bikes as troops, why aren't you complaining about that?

ALL Codex space marine Chapters can take troops on bikes if they take a Space Marine Chapter Master or Captain on a bike.

Blood Angels iconic "thing" has always been Death Company, not assault marines.

except GW supports what I say about assault marines being the iconic thing for BA as THEY WERE PLACED ON THE ACTUAL COVER OF THE CODEX!

Everyone was all up in arms about SW when the book released. The rumors had it nerfed into the ground and everyone was crying.
The book comes out, SW models hit ebay, then overnight SW become a competitive choice.

Calm your nurps guys. I know 4/5 of you love nothing more than feverishly typing flames, complaints and cries, but it wont do anything. Save yourself the energy of typing out how you are going to go melt your BA army and be patient.

Worst case is that you book sucks as bad as it already does. It will be playable, the sun will still rise, and you will still roll dice.



Now, anyone know if any of those fancy psychic powers are limited to buffing BA only? Or if the sang priest buffs are BA only, like the SW banner states it only works on SW. I really like a lot of what I am seeing for an allied detachment.

 mk2 wrote:

 Red__Thirst wrote:

 Crimson Devil wrote:
If you build your army to that edition's codex then you will always be screwed over by GW. Happens every time. Build your army with the long view over multiple editions.

I find myself a bit amused and perplexed by my fellow BA players. How do so many of you not have any Tactical marines? They come in every starter box. Even players without a marine army have a squad or two lying around.

Anyway, I'm immune from the change since I built a Company. I have six squads of Tacticals and Two squads of Assault. I rarely if ever don't have a least one Tactical squad on the table. My biggest problem is 7th has killed any desire to play the game. I'll only pick up the codex and wait for 8th I guess.

Thank you.

Have an exalt, sir.

It's boggling to me that people can't see this simple fact. Two 5 man squads of Tactical Marines with bolters, or two five man squads of Scouts armed for hand-to-hand that you use for counter-infiltrate and then use to grab an objective or put pressure on a flank. Scouts with Furious Charge and BP/CCW are a fun option to run in my mind.

Just my thoughts. Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Edits: Sleepy spelling errors FTW...

You know what else is mind boggling ? That you have no idea most tournaments are battle forged single CAD only ( double source ) . Mainly because of how broken the rule set is for competitive play overall with all armies .

Since you clearly work for GW please tell your buddies that next time they make a codex let actual players make it and not modelers and accountants .

GAMES WORKSHOP DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE TOURNAMENT SCENE! They do not care. 40k is a game, for fun, for 3 hours to kill with buddies. Not to win money, not to win a free painting set and certainly not to win. Its 3 hours drinking beer, eating pretzels and just having a laugh with friends. That is how GW see it, no other way. They are players themselves. They have a way they want to play the game and write the rules. The only thing you are right about is the accountants, who have obviously made this FOC change change.

JuniorRS13 wrote:
Such doom. Much gloom.

Looking forward to more unique BA builds. Honestly, I'm excited.

Same here, I just need a little information before I can real sit down and plan things.

However we need to all remember this is all part of a Codex Release.
"No, they just made my Army Completely Worthless!"
A few Days, Weeks or Months Later."
"Well my Army is doing much better now."

Over all it looks to be what we are all Really Wanting: An Fair and Balance Codex

Would people have been okay if Asorath granted DC Troops or if you run a Captain with a JP, Assault Squads are Troops?

 gwarsh41 wrote:
Everyone was all up in arms about SW when the book released. The rumors had it nerfed into the ground and everyone was crying.
The book comes out, SW models hit ebay, then overnight SW become a competitive choice.

Calm your nurps guys. I know 4/5 of you love nothing more than feverishly typing flames, complaints and cries, but it wont do anything. Save yourself the energy of typing out how you are going to go melt your BA army and be patient.

Worst case is that you book sucks as bad as it already does. It will be playable, the sun will still rise, and you will still roll dice.

Great troll. 10/10. Would straw man again.

No one is complaining about competitiveness. No one is whining about being nerfed into the ground.

If words are too hard for you to understand, I have MSPaint and can draw you a nice picture of what people are complaining about.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Would people have been okay if Asorath granted DC Troops or if you run a Captain with a JP, Assault Squads are Troops?

Which is the simplest, most obvious choice to give players a fluffy way to keep playing their army.

Same goes for any marine chapter, really.

Still hurts the brain how GW can't quite figure this out. We know they have this idea from other books, but extending it to other fluffy options still eludes them. Frustrating to watch.

Keep your eyes peeled on the proposed rules forum for people to hash this out better.

 mk2 wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:

natpri771 wrote:
1. White Scars take bikes as troops, why aren't you complaining about that?

ALL Codex space marine Chapters can take troops on bikes if they take a Space Marine Chapter Master or Captain on a bike.

Blood Angels iconic "thing" has always been Death Company, not assault marines.

except GW supports what I say about assault marines being the iconic thing for BA as THEY WERE PLACED ON THE ACTUAL COVER OF THE CODEX!

Correlation does not imply causation

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Would people have been okay if Asorath granted DC Troops or if you run a Captain with a JP, Assault Squads are Troops?

Yes that would have been Great, but The Days Unlocking Units are now Dead, or at least I have grown to except that.

When they Released the next Codex: Space Marines, that Unlocking Bikes as troops is dead and Gone, just like Deathwing/Ravenwing and Chaos Lords Unlocking the Special Units like Zerkers and Plague Marines.

Those will most likely be replaced with Formations and/or Detachments.

It wasn't Ward that made BA Assault Marines troops. It was Jervis in the 2007 WD dex. Even then you didn't see them much because they couldn't take special weapons (best they could do was the 15 point plasma pistol) and they couldn't trade their packs for Razorbacks, just Rhinos.

So back then I would run three 5-man Tacticals in Razorbacks, a big DC with Lemartes, Baal Preds, and some drop pod furiosos. Sometimes I'd run veterans and /or an honor guard with Dante. I did experiment with jumping assault squads on occasion, but they just weren't very good. Outside of DC, the only furious charge buff came from Corbulo who couldn't take a jump pack. I also tried running my assault squads on foot in rhinos. They were cheaper than tacticals that way, but not very useful apart from camping an objective which was hardly evocative of the fluff.

I'm less bothered by the loss of Assault Marines in troops, than I am about the other FOC swaps like moving DC to Elite. I think they should have remained troops or put outside the FOC. The elite slot is too crowded now.

The loss of the all jumper army hurts a little, but for me 6th had already killed that with the change to reserves.

Anyway, as regards the fluff of the chapter composition and how it's presented on the tabletop, I think one of big things that makes BA appear jumper heavy is that the 1st company vets like to roll out as vanguards more frequently than as terminators. It's not just that they always send the 8th company out on a mission.

1: Dark Angels pretty much are a codex force. They have a company with lots of Terminators and another with lots of bikes and due to their fame GW happened to write rules for them.

2: Blood Angels probably dont NEED Assault Marines as troops, but then by that logic no one needs FOC slot changes or special rules to make their Bikes/Assault Marines/Devastators/Terminators etc different.

It does suck that GW left the BA players with only Tacs and Scouts (which I fething hope get Land Speeder Storms otherwise they're god awful still) to choose from in the troops section. Objective Secured IS important. Unbound ISNT viable in pick up games or tournament play. GW dont even allow it themselves at their events.

I am sure there will be formations and dataslates that you can bolt together to make competitve using another book as a crutch, just like Champions Of Fenris + Codex Marine Bikes, or Grey Knight Nemesis Formation + Codex Marine Grav Cents or Ravenwing bikes plus Space Wolf Thunderwolves etc etc

But no one wants to be forced to play a certain way. The beauty of the Vanilla dex is the versatility in it and the number of different competitve builds within. The fact you can use so many of the toys and have a coherent competitive force.

Tactical Marines with furious charge is a terrible combination. Assault Marines actually fulfilled a nice role and it only needed a bit of tweaking in prices of other units to make BA a good book. Now it's starting from the ground up again with some pretty uninspiring building blocks.

And many MANY players with armies they can't use anymore.

 adamsouza wrote:

 mk2 wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:

natpri771 wrote:
1. White Scars take bikes as troops, why aren't you complaining about that?

ALL Codex space marine Chapters can take troops on bikes if they take a Space Marine Chapter Master or Captain on a bike.

Blood Angels iconic "thing" has always been Death Company, not assault marines.

except GW supports what I say about assault marines being the iconic thing for BA as THEY WERE PLACED ON THE ACTUAL COVER OF THE CODEX!

Correlation does not imply causation

No it doesnt.

But GW putting Assault Squads as troops for a decade, making not one, but 2 specific boxes of models with jetpacks for the blood angels (and the only chapter specific ones at that for BA) and writing endless texts and fluff stating how much the love using jump packs does.

That is the problem. Its no good blaming players for having armies full of assault troops, GW directed them to do precisely that. It is asinine for those that wish to , for some reason, defend this move by GW to blame the people affected by it.

I wish GW would pick up my rule proposal for space marine armies personally.

For every two full space marine tactical squads, one devastator or assault squad may become a troop choice. It would make certain squads more viable and/or effective without too much of a boost, whilst unlocking further fast attack and dev squads if that tickles your fancy, and finally, it's fluffy.

The same could be done for most armies one way or another, a full imperial guard infantry platoon could allow 1 standard lemun russ to become troops etc etc.

Just plain rewarding more use of troops whilst letting players fill out the rest of the lists with more of their desired choices in other categories.

 Anpu42 wrote:
Well I am down to few questions...
1] Did Scouts get the Land Speeder Storm?
2] Does Honor Squad/Command Squad get jump Packs?
3] What is up with the Glaives?

Beyond that it looks like this might be my set up:
Dante
Sanguinary Priest [JP] x2
Honor Guar [PJ]
Tactical Squad [Flamer/Heavy Flamer] x2-4
Assault Squad x2
Stormraven

I might add a pair of Baal Predators and a few Dreads.

Except based on what has been posted honor guard are no longer in the codex . The person originally leaking the info said that .


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 adamsouza wrote:

 mk2 wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:

natpri771 wrote:
1. White Scars take bikes as troops, why aren't you complaining about that?

ALL Codex space marine Chapters can take troops on bikes if they take a Space Marine Chapter Master or Captain on a bike.

Blood Angels iconic "thing" has always been Death Company, not assault marines.

except GW supports what I say about assault marines being the iconic thing for BA as THEY WERE PLACED ON THE ACTUAL COVER OF THE CODEX!

Correlation does not imply causation

And people that don't understand brand recognition and marketing shouldn't post about it .

 mk2 wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:
Well I am down to few questions...
1] Did Scouts get the Land Speeder Storm?
2] Does Honor Squad/Command Squad get jump Packs?
3] What is up with the Glaives?

Beyond that it looks like this might be my set up:
Dante
Sanguinary Priest [JP] x2
Honor Guar [PJ]
Tactical Squad [Flamer/Heavy Flamer] x2-4
Assault Squad x2
Stormraven

I might add a pair of Baal Predators and a few Dreads.

Except based on what has been posted honor guard are no longer in the codex . The person originally leaking the info said that .

Honor Guard/Command Squad, Same thing now and yes I knew that.

 mk2 wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:
Well I am down to few questions...
1] Did Scouts get the Land Speeder Storm?
2] Does Honor Squad/Command Squad get jump Packs?
3] What is up with the Glaives?

Beyond that it looks like this might be my set up:
Dante
Sanguinary Priest [JP] x2
Honor Guar [PJ]
Tactical Squad [Flamer/Heavy Flamer] x2-4
Assault Squad x2
Stormraven

I might add a pair of Baal Predators and a few Dreads.

Except based on what has been posted honor guard are no longer in the codex . The person originally leaking the info said that .


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 adamsouza wrote:

 mk2 wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:

natpri771 wrote:
1. White Scars take bikes as troops, why aren't you complaining about that?

ALL Codex space marine Chapters can take troops on bikes if they take a Space Marine Chapter Master or Captain on a bike.

Blood Angels iconic "thing" has always been Death Company, not assault marines.

except GW supports what I say about assault marines being the iconic thing for BA as THEY WERE PLACED ON THE ACTUAL COVER OF THE CODEX!

Correlation does not imply causation

And people that don't understand brand recognition and marketing shouldn't post about it .

Shield of Baal III incoming














Shield of Baal-Novella featuring Necrons










Product list




Source and some more (Hobbit) pics: http://astropate.blogspot.de/2014/12/white-dwarf-46-shield-of-baal.html

Original source: http://eltallerdeyila.blogspot.it/2014/12/white-dwarf-46-shred-til-theyre-dead.html

I am confused about the extra elite slot? What supposedly grants it?

It does kind of feel like GW have hamstrung themselves with so many elites choices for the army.

DC/Dreads/Sang Guard, Sternguard/ Vanguard Vets/ Normal Terminators/ assault Terminators...there are just far too many choices to fit in.

If anything removing DC from troops is far more of an issue to me than the removal of assault squads, and seems strange given the reduction in WS. But fluff wise I guess I can see having the core of your army made up by units on the verge of death and beset by madness is a bit daft.

I am new to BA with this release I am new to BA with this release but do feel the pain of those with armies that no have their whole essence and playing strategy changed.