Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

barko wrote:

 curran12 wrote:
So since I play sisters, I can't play in your events barko. Thanks.

I want to be clear I am not banning any army just a type of publication. If your army is excluded because of that I'm sorry, but I can't make exceptions just because GW doesn't like your army enough to give it a printed codex. Also I am not banning armies or E-pubs from friendly play.

That still doesn't make it any better. I've never organized a tourney before myself, but wouldn't it be better to still ask for a printed/handwritten list and check people's mobi/epub codexes before the event? If you're a TO, you probably own a copy of all the books anyway, so it shouldn't be that difficult to find changes, right?

barko wrote:
I don't let people use them in big events for many reasons.

1) They are easy to alter or strait up fake.
2) The owner of the store we are playing at makes no money off of E-books so it is a big middle finger to him.
3) In long events like a RTT the batteries may run out so the rules specific to a model or unit can not be checked.
4) Liability: if you bring one and someone else breaks it or it gets dropped or any of a hundred things happen to it while your at an event I am running I or the store I am running the event at may be held liable for the damage.
5) army lists, lets face it you can make a ton of lists on a pad and break out the one that best suits the army you are facing. That is a LOT harder to pull off if your using a piece of paper that the TO can sign off on.

So while the one reason given here is easy to attack it is by far not the only reason to an these at events. The most important thing to remember is this. It's their event and as such they get to set whatever rules they want. If you think it is unfair or not a good rule, talk to them, and if your not satisfied run your own event and use whatever you want as rules.

But that's just my $0.02.

sorry but this is daft.
it can be faked? ban the cheater.
2)if you force me to buy a second book just so you can get money you wont get me in the store so i wont be buying anything let alone a second codex.
3) if your at a long event take your charger and dont be a knob.
4) NEVER seen an event that takes responsibility for personally owned items, do you replace models that get broken? so why would you be liable for my ipad. im responsible for it, and i can tell you now its not a coaster for other people its safely on the table and other people arent messing with it. (and if your using a cheap reader it costs about the same as my codex.
5) this absolutely has to be the worst excuse in the list. people CHANGING their lists mid tourney? what event do you run where people bring in lists on digital they can change? all lists should be printed in triplicate (me, opponent, TO) and any modification of the list, BAM removed from tourney for cheating.

i flat out dont understand the excuses people use to say we wont accept a digital codex.

also as said above, and you even acknowledged it. you BAN sisters etc that dont have print codex's or are they allowed to bring previous edition written ones because thats the last legal print version?

barko wrote:
I don't let people use them in big events for many reasons.

1) They are easy to alter or strait up fake.
2) The owner of the store we are playing at makes no money off of E-books so it is a big middle finger to him.
3) In long events like a RTT the batteries may run out so the rules specific to a model or unit can not be checked.
4) Liability: if you bring one and someone else breaks it or it gets dropped or any of a hundred things happen to it while your at an event I am running I or the store I am running the event at may be held liable for the damage.
5) army lists, lets face it you can make a ton of lists on a pad and break out the one that best suits the army you are facing. That is a LOT harder to pull off if your using a piece of paper that the TO can sign off on.

So while the one reason given here is easy to attack it is by far not the only reason to an these at events. The most important thing to remember is this. It's their event and as such they get to set whatever rules they want. If you think it is unfair or not a good rule, talk to them, and if your not satisfied run your own event and use whatever you want as rules.

But that's just my $0.02.

I've got issues with a few of your points.

2) Do you allow people to use models that they didn't purchase at that particular store? Because the owner of the store doesn't make any money off of that, either.
3) Batteries on a tablet last a very long time. It's possible but unlikely.
4) Where has this ever happened?
5) All tourneys I've played in require paper copies of your army list to submit to each opponent AND the TO. You could just as easily juggle a bunch of paper army lists if you really wanted to cheat...

I agree with everything curran12 said, but also;

barko wrote:
2) The owner of the store we are playing at makes no money off of E-books so it is a big middle finger to him.

This is the biggest fallacy of the lot and makes absolutely no sense. Banning something because it doesn't directly benefit the store owner is not just piss poor business practice, but is also the start of a slippery slope of 'profit maximization'. Where is the logical end point of this kind of policy?

-No players are allowed to bring converted models to tournaments as the store owner doesn't benefit from sales of green stuff or the reuse of bitz/old models.
-No players are allowed to bring models bought on ebay / traded on forums like dakka / borrowed from friends or relatives to tournaments as the store owner doesn't benefit from it.
-No players are allowed to bring any models to tournaments that don't have a receipt showing they were bough at said store, as the store owner doesn't benefit from their sales
-No players are allowed to bring their own drinks / food to all day tournaments as their consumption doesn't benefit the store owner
-No players are allowed to use the toilet at 2-day, 12-hour tournaments as its use doesn't benefit the store owner (in fact, it is a drain on the owners resources as it uses up water, hand soap and paper towels, so now we will in fact add a $2 toilet surcharge to all players)

But yeah, good luck with your business plan. Do you do consulting for GW in your spare time?

barko wrote:I want to be clear I am not banning any army just a type of publication. If your army is excluded because of that I'm sorry

Er.... you cant use the army without the rules, so you kinda are banning them.

lapedus wrote:Er.... you cant use the army without the rules, so you kinda are banning them.

And being very unapologetic about it, at that. It's not like Sisters players are going out of their way to just feth you over, either, there's literally no other legal way to play the army other than a direct-only digital product from GW that you can't sell even if you wanted to.

I also imagine you wouldn't have a problem selling Sisters models if someone came into your store and ordered them through you, either.

 Iapedus wrote:
I agree with everything curran12 said, but also;

barko wrote:
2) The owner of the store we are playing at makes no money off of E-books so it is a big middle finger to him.

This is the biggest fallacy of the lot and makes absolutely no sense. Banning something because it doesn't directly benefit the store owner is not just piss poor business practice, but is also the start of a slippery slope of 'profit maximization'. Where is the logical end point of this kind of policy?

To be fair to barko, I think he was just listing the various reasons his store doesn't support them, not saying each reason is justification on its own. So the no-profit-for-the-LGS option isn't enough, by itself, to ban something (which is why presumably conversions, third party bits, or secondhand models are not forbidden).

I can definitely understand the "pay where you play" mentality. In my region, if we don't give our local store at least a modicum of support, we won't have a place to play. In a bigger metroplitan area where opponents and locations are in abundance, there might be more room to not kick in, but out here in the boonies the (really, only) local store needs our support.

I still don't agree with banning digital codexes, I can definitely understand their inclusion on a list of reasons not to allow them. If anything, I think it's the most reasonable justification given. (Again, not enough to justify the action, but still understandable.)

curran im sorry, but he isn't responsible to cater to your issues. Squats had models too, and gw ditched any support for them. Frankly I cant believe the last sisters codex came out, digital only or not. I thought they would have been rolled into an inquisitor codex with grey knights and assassins.

Either way we live an age where is super easy to forge documents and falsify information. So I agree with the physical copy only rules too. Pickup games are ok, because if the doucher is cheating, eventually he will be outed and ostrasized, but at events? With prize money involved and people coming in from out of town that nobody knows? Sorry your out of luck. Wouldn't be fair to let you use your online only book and not them, even if your a regular.

Yeah, well your army sucks too, Orock. Shoulda rolled it into Imperial Guard, I mean, Marines are just minions of the Administratum anyway.

I don't really get why should I buy anything from the store the tournament is held in. There's an entry fee, that's their compensation. Banning something because it wasn't bought there is a really asshat move.

I also don't get this support your local store stuff. It's a business, not charity. If they have proper service/prices/wares I'll buy there, if they don't, I won't. It's that easy. Also demanding support and being a dick just doesn't work together.

Zsolt wrote:
I don't really get why should I buy anything from the store the tournament is held in. There's an entry fee, that's their compensation. Banning something because it wasn't bought there is a really asshat move.

I also don't get this support your local store stuff. It's a business, not charity. If they have proper service/prices/wares I'll buy there, if they don't, I won't. It's that easy. Also demanding support and being a dick just doesn't work together.

It isn't just a business, that's the thing. It's also a community. If my local game store closes, there will be no place to play 40k anymore. All the cheap minis in the world don't do me a lick of good if I have no where to shuckle the bones. I wish my local store did a lot of things different, but like Billy Markham said, "it's the only game in town."

In addition, running events or even allowing freeplay isn't free for a business. They pay for labor, for power, for materials, and for space. When someone uses these resources without contributing back to the community in some way, they're a parasite. Pretty much by definition. If you don't play at your local store then there's no need to support them financially, but for most people that isn't the case.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Yeah, well your army sucks too, Orock. Shoulda rolled it into Imperial Guard, I mean, Marines are just minions of the Administratum anyway.

So salty.

I make no apologies for being British in my reproof.

i think the lessons to be learned here are these:

a) if you want to play in more tourneys, build an army that's supported with a paper codex.
If you can't do that, for whatever reason, resign yourself to the fact that you won't be playing competitively for a while. Them's the breaks.

b) if you have an army that's only supported with a digital codex, or that's the only version you have, make sure you find out the rules of the tourney before you enter. Don't think you'll be able to change the organisers' minds and they'll make an exception for you, just because you didn't read the rules.

Don't get too hung up about it; tourneys are like buses - there'll be another one in ten minutes.
And don't be too disheartened, because digital codexes are The Future and sooner or later that's all we'll have, like it or not.

>Digital codices not allowed
>Own an Inquisitor's army
>flip 'em a bird

So instead of the digital codex could I use this Orock? Its the last paper codex for sisters. Copyright 2003 lol. I can go find my 1997 one as well but that one sucked. I could look for the white dwarf version but this was the last official paper book I believe.

 Jimsolo wrote:

Zsolt wrote:
I don't really get why should I buy anything from the store the tournament is held in. There's an entry fee, that's their compensation. Banning something because it wasn't bought there is a really asshat move.

I also don't get this support your local store stuff. It's a business, not charity. If they have proper service/prices/wares I'll buy there, if they don't, I won't. It's that easy. Also demanding support and being a dick just doesn't work together.

It isn't just a business, that's the thing. It's also a community. If my local game store closes, there will be no place to play 40k anymore. All the cheap minis in the world don't do me a lick of good if I have no where to shuckle the bones. I wish my local store did a lot of things different, but like Billy Markham said, "it's the only game in town."

In addition, running events or even allowing freeplay isn't free for a business. They pay for labor, for power, for materials, and for space. When someone uses these resources without contributing back to the community in some way, they're a parasite. Pretty much by definition. If you don't play at your local store then there's no need to support them financially, but for most people that isn't the case.

This is how it works here:
We have a couple of stores that sell 40k (and other games), and there are a couple of clubs people play 40k (and other games). So everybody can decide where are they buying and where are they playing. Actually the stores don't have place to play, they are just stores.

The clubs has a monthly membership fee or a daily entry fee. So you either pay more money and play there for a month whenever you want, or you pay each time you go down to play, and then you are set for the day.

There are also stores that support clubs, like you can buy the monthly membership from there, and you get some discount on the items you buy along with the membership.

What your and Iapedus' LGS (let's just make the difference here between LFGS and the type you guys have) does is abusing their monopole state, which is a pretty nasty thing. They clearly can't rely on that they are the only palce where you can buy your stuff, as you can buy anything from the internet, and you can also change their monopole state as the only place to play. You can organize some clubs for yourself, rent some place where you can play. If you make it some form of youth club or similar thing you may even get some official support from the town. I know it's not easy and needs a lot of work, what I'm saying is only that you can change this unequal situation.

 Jimsolo wrote:

Zsolt wrote:
I don't really get why should I buy anything from the store the tournament is held in. There's an entry fee, that's their compensation. Banning something because it wasn't bought there is a really asshat move.

I also don't get this support your local store stuff. It's a business, not charity. If they have proper service/prices/wares I'll buy there, if they don't, I won't. It's that easy. Also demanding support and being a dick just doesn't work together.

It isn't just a business, that's the thing. It's also a community. If my local game store closes, there will be no place to play 40k anymore. All the cheap minis in the world don't do me a lick of good if I have no where to shuckle the bones. I wish my local store did a lot of things different, but like Billy Markham said, "it's the only game in town."

In addition, running events or even allowing freeplay isn't free for a business. They pay for labor, for power, for materials, and for space. When someone uses these resources without contributing back to the community in some way, they're a parasite. Pretty much by definition. If you don't play at your local store then there's no need to support them financially, but for most people that isn't the case.

As time goes on, expecting people to buy where they play is increasingly unrealistic. With the wonders of the internet you can buy product your store might not be able to stock, you might be able to get it faster than they do, you might be able to buy 2nd hand stuff. Not to mention, GW going direct only with a lot of items makes things harder. I would have to look it up, but from memory FLGS's only make a tiny amount of money if they order in direct only items for you, so if you get them to order in a SoB army you might be paying out a huge amount of money, the lion share is going to GW, the FLGS won't make much money off it anyway. You also have people like me who have monolithic collections (most still unpainted ) and typically don't need to buy new models if they don't want to.

With that in mind, stores have to think a bit more about how they're going to make money off tables. They have to accept people are going to use tables and occasionally be buying stuff from elsewhere. They can either just live with that and treat the tables as advertising and not all advertising works on all people (just because I'm watching a TV program paid for by the advertising doesn't mean I'm going to go out and buy something to support them) or they can be dicks and tell people to leave if they aren't buying product or they can look in to making money off tables some other way than just assuming the people playing on them will be buying all their product in that shop.

Zsolt wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:

Zsolt wrote:
I don't really get why should I buy anything from the store the tournament is held in. There's an entry fee, that's their compensation. Banning something because it wasn't bought there is a really asshat move.

I also don't get this support your local store stuff. It's a business, not charity. If they have proper service/prices/wares I'll buy there, if they don't, I won't. It's that easy. Also demanding support and being a dick just doesn't work together.

It isn't just a business, that's the thing. It's also a community. If my local game store closes, there will be no place to play 40k anymore. All the cheap minis in the world don't do me a lick of good if I have no where to shuckle the bones. I wish my local store did a lot of things different, but like Billy Markham said, "it's the only game in town."

In addition, running events or even allowing freeplay isn't free for a business. They pay for labor, for power, for materials, and for space. When someone uses these resources without contributing back to the community in some way, they're a parasite. Pretty much by definition. If you don't play at your local store then there's no need to support them financially, but for most people that isn't the case.

This is how it works here:
We have a couple of stores that sell 40k (and other games), and there are a couple of clubs people play 40k (and other games). So everybody can decide where are they buying and where are they playing. Actually the stores don't have place to play, they are just stores.

The clubs has a monthly membership fee or a daily entry fee. So you either pay more money and play there for a month whenever you want, or you pay each time you go down to play, and then you are set for the day.

There are also stores that support clubs, like you can buy the monthly membership from there, and you get some discount on the items you buy along with the membership.

What your and Iapedus' LGS (let's just make the difference here between LFGS and the type you guys have) does is abusing their monopole state, which is a pretty nasty thing. They clearly can't rely on that they are the only palce where you can buy your stuff, as you can buy anything from the internet, and you can also change their monopole state as the only place to play. You can organize some clubs for yourself, rent some place where you can play. If you make it some form of youth club or similar thing you may even get some official support from the town. I know it's not easy and needs a lot of work, what I'm saying is only that you can change this unequal situation.

There seems to be a mistaken impression that the store I looked into playing at (and my local store as well) are strongarming players into buying codexes/armies there. Neither of these is the case. The club which is running the events at the store I was looking to play at is the one with the rule about no digital codexes. The store owner (at that location and at my own) doesn't care.

Rather, the community efforts to 'support your local game store' are club driven, in an effort to keep their local stores open.

As much as I would love to have my own shop where everything was done my way, that just isn't feasible. It's easy to say "start your own club," when you live in a situation where multiple options exist, but the task of starting a new operation which is capable of competing with the old one is fairly daunting, and even if I lived in the area I called to probably not worth the (considerable) time and money such a task would take.

If I'm traveling to that area again (and my wife is from there, so it's pretty likely), then I'll just remember to only play paper codexes in their events, or choose not to play at all in their events.

Store "policies" like the ones mentioned in this thread are just fething stupid. Why go out of your way to feth over such a group of people just because GW can't or won't be arsed enough to release physical codexes? I play both SoB and Inquisition and what store policies like these say are that I am not welcome simply because of the armies I happen to have been playing for almost 10 years now and that they do not want my business.

I suppose I am fortunate that my FLGS is not as asinine as some of the ones in this thread. If a store is really having issues with people editing digital codexes, that sounds more like a problem with WAAC type people than with the format their codex happens to be. Address the cause of the problem, cheating asshats, and not the symptom of the problem, digital codexes.

Also to all the store owners that don't allow digital codexes because they don't provide money directly to the store: Why I am as a customer even going to want to enter your store to spend money in the first place if I already know I am not welcome due to the armies I play or the type of codex I have? By not allowing these people to play in your store to begin with, you are already excluding them as potential/future customers.

 Evil Lamp 6 wrote:
Store "policies" like the ones mentioned in this thread are just fething stupid. Why go out of your way to feth over such a group of people just because GW can't or won't be arsed enough to release physical codexes? I play both SoB and Inquisition and what store policies like these say are that I am not welcome simply because of the armies I happen to have been playing for almost 10 years now and that they do not want my business.

I suppose I am fortunate that my FLGS is not as asinine as some of the ones in this thread. If a store is really having issues with people editing digital codexes, that sounds more like a problem with WAAC type people than with the format their codex happens to be. Address the cause of the problem, cheating asshats, and not the symptom of the problem, digital codexes.

Also to all the store owners that don't allow digital codexes because they don't provide money directly to the store: Why I am as a customer even going to want to enter your store to spend money in the first place if I already know I am not welcome due to the armies I play or the type of codex I have? By not allowing these people to play in your store to begin with, you are already excluding them as potential/future customers.

Please reread the thread. Most of the stores don't care, it's the club that operates within the store that doesn't allow the digital codexes.

Then the clubs are stupid. And the stores should know they are driving players away.

 Jimsolo wrote:

 Evil Lamp 6 wrote:
Store "policies" like the ones mentioned in this thread are just fething stupid. Why go out of your way to feth over such a group of people just because GW can't or won't be arsed enough to release physical codexes? I play both SoB and Inquisition and what store policies like these say are that I am not welcome simply because of the armies I happen to have been playing for almost 10 years now and that they do not want my business.

I suppose I am fortunate that my FLGS is not as asinine as some of the ones in this thread. If a store is really having issues with people editing digital codexes, that sounds more like a problem with WAAC type people than with the format their codex happens to be. Address the cause of the problem, cheating asshats, and not the symptom of the problem, digital codexes.

Also to all the store owners that don't allow digital codexes because they don't provide money directly to the store: Why I am as a customer even going to want to enter your store to spend money in the first place if I already know I am not welcome due to the armies I play or the type of codex I have? By not allowing these people to play in your store to begin with, you are already excluding them as potential/future customers.

Please reread the thread. Most of the stores don't care, it's the club that operates within the store that doesn't allow the digital codexes.

I did read the thread, and perhaps most of my post was directed at posts like:

barko wrote:I don't let people use them in big events for many reasons.

1) They are easy to alter or strait up fake.
2) The owner of the store we are playing at makes no money off of E-books so it is a big middle finger to him.
3) In long events like a RTT the batteries may run out so the rules specific to a model or unit can not be checked.
4) Liability: if you bring one and someone else breaks it or it gets dropped or any of a hundred things happen to it while your at an event I am running I or the store I am running the event at may be held liable for the damage.
5) army lists, lets face it you can make a ton of lists on a pad and break out the one that best suits the army you are facing. That is a LOT harder to pull off if your using a piece of paper that the TO can sign off on.

So while the one reason given here is easy to attack it is by far not the only reason to an these at events. The most important thing to remember is this. It's their event and as such they get to set whatever rules they want. If you think it is unfair or not a good rule, talk to them, and if your not satisfied run your own event and use whatever you want as rules.

But that's just my $0.02.

But ok, so it is the club within the store, rather than the store itself. Why again would one want to go to a store where they couldn't play because of the club that runs 40k doesn't allow one's army because of a digital codex? Same idea still applies. Because of the club's actions of not wanting people with digital codexes playing, they are arguably losing customers for the store itself.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I would go to the store once, speak to the club to see if they would reconsider their "policy". After that, I would speak to the store owner and explain why the actions of the club operating in their store has now just lost them a customer.

Maybe the people in that club are asshats. You should enlighten them about their retardedness....

Banning a whole bunch of armies, because MAYBE somebody edits the codex is just really really stupid. Check army lists before events (they should do that anyway) and have a couple of judges around. There are a lot of sources of acquiring codicies (like borrowing it from a friend who owns it until you read through it and memorize it), so it really shouldn't be a problem. It just hurts to think about it how idiotic it is.

 Chrissy_J wrote:
i think the lessons to be learned here are these:

a) if you want to play in more tourneys, build an army that's supported with a paper codex.
If you can't do that, for whatever reason, resign yourself to the fact that you won't be playing competitively for a while. Them's the breaks.

b) if you have an army that's only supported with a digital codex, or that's the only version you have, make sure you find out the rules of the tourney before you enter. Don't think you'll be able to change the organisers' minds and they'll make an exception for you, just because you didn't read the rules.

Don't get too hung up about it; tourneys are like buses - there'll be another one in ten minutes.
And don't be too disheartened, because digital codexes are The Future and sooner or later that's all we'll have, like it or not.

Except I dont see this in the UK, or at least not last I looked. Certainly all well run tournaments have list submission, when rules etc can be checked.

Completely asinine set of rules.

Jim I sent you a PM

The whole idea of taking something that is already a limited audience and further dividing that up by saying printed materials are ok, but digital ones are not seems REALLY short sighted to me. I am going to turn a away a potential customer/player who has the potential of spending money because I don't like where they get their rules from? Especially since the company that makes the game publishes the rules in that format (I suspect if they had their way EVERYONE would be using a digital codex.) Seems really dumb to me. If I was a store owner I want TRAFFIC through my store. The more the better, printed or digital, pirate or legit, you are all welcome. I operate on the assumption MOST people are on the up and up. The cheaters and pirates are a tax I have to pay.

The reasons for such a ban stated in this thread are dubious at best. I am not a tournament player but have considered starting up, but I would never go to one with a NO DIGITAL policy. Simply because I do not own the hard copies nor do I want to own the hard copies.

There is an undercurrent against digital releases among many 'over-30' local gamers, but I've never heard of anyone forbidding them in any way.

 jasper76 wrote:
There is an undercurrent against digital releases among many 'over-30' local gamers, but I've never heard of anyone forbidding them in any way.

I am an "over 30" gamer and have no desire to have a printed codex or rules. I like having everything on one device, easily searched and bookmarked. The only thing I don't like is the need to switch from codex to rules and back again. It is slow to "open" the books on the device. I wish I could have multiple books "open" at once.

Loborocket wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
There is an undercurrent against digital releases among many 'over-30' local gamers, but I've never heard of anyone forbidding them in any way.

I am an "over 30" gamer and have no desire to have a printed codex or rules. I like having everything on one device, easily searched and bookmarked. The only thing I don't like is the need to switch from codex to rules and back again. It is slow to "open" the books on the device. I wish I could have multiple books "open" at once.

I did say 'local'...alot of my fellow players locally are also book collectors to a certain degree, and the books are preferred. Some of them don't even have smart phones or tablets so perhaps its unfamiliarity with the medium.

To be honest, I got into this game through downloading PDF's years and years ago and through many editions. When I actually got into the hobby I purchased damn near every book as they came out, but increasingly I have no desire to buy them as costs have increased dramatically, and, almost as important, they're a whole lot heavier now that they're hardback, and where once I could carry around every legal codex in a backpack and be ok, it's now way too heavy for me to care. I don't like the way GW does their digital codex books, but I also don't like paying $50 for a unnecessarily hardbacked books. Having just moved, the full grasp of the excess of the size and weight of all my hardback gaming books became readily apparent to me as absurd.

I've also never encountered or even heard of an actual instance of someone doctoring a digital copy of a book. It's always just a "well someone *could* do that...". That's a flimy excuse dreamed up by store owners that want a cut of that action and nothing more. To a degree I can understand where store owners are coming from, they're having to compete with their own supplier with a more convenient format, and that sucks from a business perspective. I'm sympathetic. But banning them doesn't suddenly mean those customers are going to buy stuff in-store, especially not when certain things aren't available, it just means they're going to stop spending any money in the store. It's a stupid, shortsighted practice which does nothing but hurt the store's business in the long run.