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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/16 18:58:18
Subject: Vatican proposes shift on Catholic view of homosexuality
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Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God
Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways
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cincydooley wrote:Relapse wrote: SilverMK2 wrote:So a religious group that believes in mutilating the children of its members is ok?
I wasn't really thinking along the lines of physical harm to members, and I assume you are not referring to circumsisiom.
Oh no, he is.
We went around this loop already once in this thread.
As the person who wrote it, oh no, he's not. I was actually thinking of tribes scarring themselves, stretching body parts with rocks etc. Circumsision was not on my mind when I wrote the post. It is not really culturally a thing in the UK
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/16 18:58:32
Subject: Vatican proposes shift on Catholic view of homosexuality
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Sniping Reverend Moira
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SilverMK2 wrote:I wasn't referencing it specifically, no (though I do not particularly agree with the practice for none medical reasoms).
You mean, other than the benefits that greatly outweigh the risks?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/16 18:58:43
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/16 19:01:16
Subject: Vatican proposes shift on Catholic view of homosexuality
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Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God
Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways
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Perhaps something for another thread, and a time when I am not posting from a phone which is almost out of battery
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/16 19:02:59
Subject: Vatican proposes shift on Catholic view of homosexuality
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Fixture of Dakka
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Manchu wrote:Relapse wrote:This might be something I'll sit down with a Priest about.
A priest won't help on this one unless he is also an ecclesiologist or a Medieval/Renaissance historian and has some knowledge of canon law.
This sounds complicated. Is this the reason for some of the disagreements I read of?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/16 19:04:42
Subject: Vatican proposes shift on Catholic view of homosexuality
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[MOD]
Solahma
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Relapse wrote:Is this the reason for some of the disagreements I read of?
Yes it is an extraordinarily complicated concept but fun to learn about and you will basically learn most of Western European history at the same time.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/16 19:04:51
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/16 19:06:24
Subject: Vatican proposes shift on Catholic view of homosexuality
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Fixture of Dakka
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Manchu wrote:Relapse wrote:Is this the reason for some of the disagreements I read of?
Yes it is an extraordinarily complicated concept but fun to learn about and you will basically learn most of Western European history at the same time.
It sounds like a reading list is in order then. Any suggestions?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/16 19:11:13
Subject: Vatican proposes shift on Catholic view of homosexuality
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Relapse wrote:
It sounds like a reading list is in order then. Any suggestions?
All of them  
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/16 19:14:44
Subject: Vatican proposes shift on Catholic view of homosexuality
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[MOD]
Solahma
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The subject presumes a huge amount of knowledge about European history and Christian theology. If you want to jump right in, however, this is the book: http://www.amazon.com/Infallible-An-Inquiry-Hans-Kung/dp/0002153432/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1413486791&sr=8-1&keywords=hans+kung+infallible It got the author into a huge amount of trouble, as you can imagine. Frankly, reading it without the proper background is probably not a good idea.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/16 19:18:18
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/16 19:35:56
Subject: Vatican proposes shift on Catholic view of homosexuality
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Fixture of Dakka
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Thanks. I'll give it a go.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/16 20:38:51
Subject: Vatican proposes shift on Catholic view of homosexuality
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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Relapse wrote: SilverMK2 wrote:So a religious group that believes in mutilating the children of its members is ok?
I wasn't really thinking along the lines of physical harm to members, and I assume you are not referring to circumsisiom.
That would be mutilating the members of its children, which I understand is widely practiced in secular life in the USA.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/16 22:49:31
Subject: Vatican proposes shift on Catholic view of homosexuality
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Fixture of Dakka
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Kilkrazy wrote:Relapse wrote: SilverMK2 wrote:So a religious group that believes in mutilating the children of its members is ok?
I wasn't really thinking along the lines of physical harm to members, and I assume you are not referring to circumsisiom.
That would be mutilating the members of its children, which I understand is widely practiced in secular life in the USA.
True, not to mention reported health benefits from the paractice, but Silver wasn't refering to circumcision.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/17 00:58:28
Subject: Vatican proposes shift on Catholic view of homosexuality
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[DCM]
The Main Man
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That's pretty poor justification for cutting off a part of the genitalia of a child without their permission. Last I checked most babies weren't at a particularly high risk for penile cancer or prostate cancer. And is not getting a treatable, non-permanent urinary tract infection really worth permanently cutting off part of the penis? You know what else helps prevent STDs even better than not being circumcised? Wearing condoms.
Most of those justifications are weak as feth. If you want to be circumcised or like being circumcised, that's cool, but don't act like any of those things are really a good justification for performing an unnecessary surgery on a baby.
It's really kind of freaky how circumcision has become such a thing in the US. It isn't that way in Europe at all, and they don't seem to have any problems.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/17 05:23:29
Subject: Vatican proposes shift on Catholic view of homosexuality
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Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God
Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways
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While it is somewhat off topic, I deal with patients who are incapable of giving consent on a daily basis either through physical or mental disability or age or emotional state, etc. There are very clear guidelines in place for acting on a person's behalf and respecting a person's decision (or an appointed maker of decisions, etc) if it is deemed that the decision was made in an appropriate way, even if you do not agree with it.
As Hordini mentions, for me, given the relatively little reading I have done into the matter, the rather minor risks associated with remaining "as god built you" do not justify, in most cases, speculative surgery. I've worked in plastic surgery where such surgery is performed for medical reasons and, in the cases I saw, I would have no hesitation in referring them for surgery because they had a medical issue that would be treated quite handily by surgery.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/18 02:32:06
Subject: Vatican proposes shift on Catholic view of homosexuality
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/18 02:54:12
Subject: Vatican proposes shift on Catholic view of homosexuality
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[MOD]
Solahma
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That's fantastic news!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/18 03:16:50
Subject: Vatican proposes shift on Catholic view of homosexuality
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Sniping Reverend Moira
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It's all lip service, Manchu. All lip service.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/18 07:03:50
Subject: Vatican proposes shift on Catholic view of homosexuality
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Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God
Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways
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This is a good move forward towards changing the stance of the rCC towards iclusivity for certain groups, no doubt. That does not change that the current changes in wording that are being looked at will, as far as it appears, have very little practical impact on the treatment of certain groups by the rCC.
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