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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/23 18:43:16
Subject: UNC report finds 18 years of academic fraud to keep athletes playing
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Sniping Reverend Moira
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hotsauceman1 wrote:Yes, it is not like I did wrestling or Boxing.
Nope, I never did sports at all.
All I see is competitiveness taken to the stupid max and childish stuff done in the name of sports, like stealing a Mascot or vandelizing
I mean, I'll just say it. I don't believe you.
If that's "all you [saw]" then you truly haven't.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/23 18:46:33
Subject: UNC report finds 18 years of academic fraud to keep athletes playing
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Member of the Ethereal Council
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On which? That I did sportsome or the comptitiveness, because I saw it alot. In my own school they spray painted the bronze statue of the other school mascot in our colors.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/23 19:03:24
Subject: UNC report finds 18 years of academic fraud to keep athletes playing
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Sniping Reverend Moira
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jasper76 wrote:My opinion...sports shouldn't be part of undergraduate education AT ALL (other than Sports Management and stuff like that).
I don't entirely disagree with you...in regards to the BIG 2. But then what happens to the tennis players? Or the swimmers? Or the women's field hockey team?"
You have to remember that if you get rid of the Big 2 (Football and Basketball), you get rid of ALL intercollegiate sports.
Intercollegiate sports are tied to American Universities pretty inexorably.
The sad fact is that when a high school athlete gets an athletic scholarship, another, more worthy student academically does not get a scholarship.
This is a really unfortunate statement. Automatically Appended Next Post: hotsauceman1 wrote:On which? That I did sportsome or the comptitiveness, because I saw it alot. In my own school they spray painted the bronze statue of the other school mascot in our colors.
You need to reevaluate your definition of "competitiveness;" spray painting the other schools mascot has nothing to do with it.
And yes, I don't believe that you participated in any sports for long enough or at a high enough level to learn any of the multitude of things that make TONS of former athletes very successful in the business world.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/23 19:05:16
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/23 19:08:35
Subject: UNC report finds 18 years of academic fraud to keep athletes playing
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Thane of Dol Guldur
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cincydooley wrote:I don't entirely disagree with you...in regards to the BIG 2. But then what happens to the tennis players? Or the swimmers? Or the women's field hockey team?"
You have to remember that if you get rid of the Big 2 (Football and Basketball), you get rid of ALL intercollegiate sports.
Intercollegiate sports are tied to American Universities pretty inexorably.
IMO opinion, this is a bad, bad thing. As a society, do we want to invest in an educational system that produces scientists, engineers, teachers, nurses, doctors, etc., or people who are very good at leisure activities? I know they are not mutually exclusive, but its says alot that so many of our schools are reliant on producing entertainment in order to stay afloat, and this often comes at the expense of potential students who are better qualified academically than recipients of athletic scholarships.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/10/23 19:09:56
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/23 19:11:01
Subject: UNC report finds 18 years of academic fraud to keep athletes playing
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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inferno445 wrote:
When I consider which college I go to, this will make me consider UNC less, even if it is relatively close to where I live now and it's relatively inexpensive from the colleges near where I used to live. The fact that the college did this will make me feel that they are concerned more with their sports than my education.
All colleges in a "Major Conference" do this though and here's why. If their team is good, it gets more air time, if they are good over a longer period, they get games in "prime TV slots" which means, when they are trying to out-Sports the other school, they get to play "Go to our university" commercials, alot. The more of those commercials they get to run, the more that bug gets planted into the brains of impressionable young people, and the more applications they receive. Also, the better they do at being better Sportsters than other Sportsy people, they tend to win trophies. Now, the trophies are generally, actually pretty cheap $ wise, but what it does for the school, is that they get paid by the sponsors of the Sports Event millions of dollars that, ostensibly should be going to the "School".
Now, a bunch of that "We're the best at Sports" money does go to the science department, and history dept. and library, and student housing, etc. But there's still a pretty penny that goes into the school's "Sports department". You'll probably have seen pieces on ESPN about a "new facility" at some school, and rarely is that facility paid for entirely through donors (such as Phil Knight buying a whole new facility for the U of Oregon's football team), but does come from the school.
The fairly sad truth in the US, when it comes to academic institutions is that Sports = Money.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/23 19:13:30
Subject: UNC report finds 18 years of academic fraud to keep athletes playing
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Sniping Reverend Moira
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jasper76 wrote:
IMO opinion, this is a bad, bad thing. As a society, do we want to invest in an educational system that produces scientists, engineers, teachers, nurses, doctors, etc., or people who are very good at leisure activities? I know they are not mutually exclusive, but its says alot that so many of our schools are reliant on producing entertainment in order to stay afloat, and this often comes at the expense of potential students who are better qualified academically than recipients of athletic scholarships.
Did you know that all of these programs that you're so worried about, and especially the ones at Big Time Programs, are completely self funding?
Meaning, there is no "at the expense of" when it comes to "students who are better qualified academically..."
I have to be honest: the absurdly broad generalization here about athletes and their intelligence is pretty fething sad.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/23 19:15:17
Subject: UNC report finds 18 years of academic fraud to keep athletes playing
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Beautiful and Deadly Keeper of Secrets
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Ensis Ferrae wrote:inferno445 wrote:
When I consider which college I go to, this will make me consider UNC less, even if it is relatively close to where I live now and it's relatively inexpensive from the colleges near where I used to live. The fact that the college did this will make me feel that they are concerned more with their sports than my education.
All colleges in a "Major Conference" do this though and here's why. If their team is good, it gets more air time, if they are good over a longer period, they get games in "prime TV slots" which means, when they are trying to out-Sports the other school, they get to play "Go to our university" commercials, alot. The more of those commercials they get to run, the more that bug gets planted into the brains of impressionable young people, and the more applications they receive. Also, the better they do at being better Sportsters than other Sportsy people, they tend to win trophies. Now, the trophies are generally, actually pretty cheap $ wise, but what it does for the school, is that they get paid by the sponsors of the Sports Event millions of dollars that, ostensibly should be going to the "School".
Now, a bunch of that "We're the best at Sports" money does go to the science department, and history dept. and library, and student housing, etc. But there's still a pretty penny that goes into the school's "Sports department". You'll probably have seen pieces on ESPN about a "new facility" at some school, and rarely is that facility paid for entirely through donors (such as Phil Knight buying a whole new facility for the U of Oregon's football team), but does come from the school.
The fairly sad truth in the US, when it comes to academic institutions is that Sports = Money.
Actually as has been discovered by actual people looking at the books, many of those sports programs run the school often times at a loss, despite the fact that they still say they "Make them money". Some do end up that way, but it's typically the schools that already had tons of investment by outside sources to begin with.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/23 19:15:50
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/23 19:15:51
Subject: UNC report finds 18 years of academic fraud to keep athletes playing
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Sniping Reverend Moira
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Ensis Ferrae wrote:
Now, a bunch of that "We're the best at Sports" money does go to the science department, and history dept. and library, and student housing, etc. But there's still a pretty penny that goes into the school's "Sports department". You'll probably have seen pieces on ESPN about a "new facility" at some school, and rarely is that facility paid for entirely through donors (such as Phil Knight buying a whole new facility for the U of Oregon's football team), but does come from the school. .
I wonder how much money the science department is making for the university and filtering back to the women's golf team.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/23 19:15:57
Subject: UNC report finds 18 years of academic fraud to keep athletes playing
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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OU has degrees for ballet, playing the bassoon, acting, interior design, and many other very narrow fields. I think if you can justify a degree in dancing you should be able to create a degree in sports. I would just want it to follow the same rules as all other degrees (same GE requirements, etc).
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/23 19:17:28
Subject: UNC report finds 18 years of academic fraud to keep athletes playing
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Thane of Dol Guldur
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@cincey: If a university takes in, lets say, 5000 freshman a year, and, lets say, 500 of those slots are reserved for student athletes, that means 500 slots will not go to non-athletes, and in some or perhaps many cases, they will have a better academic record than many of the student athletes. So it is at the expense of students who are better qualified academically.
I didn't mean to call student athletes dumb or anything, I know plenty of kids in my school were athletes (I was not) and better students than I was.
I just don't think athletic prowess should enter into the admissions eqution one iota.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/10/23 19:19:05
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/23 19:18:20
Subject: UNC report finds 18 years of academic fraud to keep athletes playing
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Sniping Reverend Moira
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d-usa wrote:
OU has degrees for ballet, playing the bassoon, acting, interior design, and many other very narrow fields. I think if you can justify a degree in dancing you should be able to create a degree in sports. I would just want it to follow the same rules as all other degrees (same GE requirements, etc).
I'm right with you here. You did a much better job of fleshing it out than I did
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/23 19:20:58
Subject: UNC report finds 18 years of academic fraud to keep athletes playing
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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hotsauceman1 wrote:If you don't apply yourself, which what I see a lot of humanities doing. But it's value is way more then football
How? You're deeply in debt. At least the athlete can trade on his name and former status.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/23 19:22:02
Subject: UNC report finds 18 years of academic fraud to keep athletes playing
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Sniping Reverend Moira
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jasper76 wrote:@cincey: If a university takes in, lets say, 5000 freshman a year, and, lets say, 500 of those slots are reserved for student athletes, that means 500 students will not go, and in some or perhaps many cases, they will have a better academic record than many of the student athletes. So it is at the expense of students who are better qualified academically.
Why would you think that's it's "many cases."
I didn't mean to call student athletes dumb or anything, I know plenty of kids in my school were athletes (I was not) and better students than I was.
Then why would you claim that in "many cases" non athletes are going to smarter than your average female swimmer?
I just don't think athletic prowess should enter into the admissions eqution one iota.
If I'm picking "C" students to let into school, I'm picking the one that's good at football. If you think that elite students, you know, the ones that SHOULD be at a 4 year university, are getting turned away due to athletic scholarships, then I've got some Oceanside property in Kansas to sell you. Automatically Appended Next Post: Frazzled wrote: hotsauceman1 wrote:If you don't apply yourself, which what I see a lot of humanities doing. But it's value is way more then football
How? You're deeply in debt. At least the athlete can trade on his name and former status.
You're underestimating the trading power of a comparative religion degree, Frazz!
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/23 19:23:03
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/23 19:27:00
Subject: UNC report finds 18 years of academic fraud to keep athletes playing
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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cincydooley wrote:[
I wonder how much money the science department is making for the university and filtering back to the women's golf team.
The huge difference here is that the science department, and by extension, medical schools, etc. don't funnel money into "women's golf" or "competitive underwater basket weaving" because the research that they do (and that's largely what the money goes toward) often times have fairly big impacts on the whole of society.
I do realize that most schools operate a sports program at a net loss for the school, however the biggest schools that are self sufficient do still have some trickle down onto those smaller ones... When Michigan (got beat) played Appalachian State in football, App State, IIRC got some of the "proceeds" of the television money because UM is apparently a "big draw" for TV audiences.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/23 19:27:34
Subject: UNC report finds 18 years of academic fraud to keep athletes playing
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Thane of Dol Guldur
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@cincey: All I'm saying at bottom, cincey, is if a 3.4 student athlete is competing for admissions with a 3.5 non-athlete student, the 3.5 should win every time....even if the other guy is a Larry Bird, or a Lawrence Taylor, or a Usain Bolt.
I do not know hard numbers about how often this prinicple of mine is violated. I know it happens.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/23 19:28:26
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/23 19:33:54
Subject: UNC report finds 18 years of academic fraud to keep athletes playing
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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jasper76 wrote:@cincey: All I'm saying at bottom, cincey, is if a 3.4 student athlete is competing for admissions with a 3.5 non-athlete student, the 3.5 should win every time....even if the other guy is a Larry Bird, or a Lawrence Taylor, or a Usain Bolt.
I do not know hard numbers about how often this prinicple of mine is violated. I know it happens.
I honestly don't think it's violated very often. Especially seeing as how, the non-athlete will probably have a wildly different degree path from the athlete, and as such they'd never really compete for class space. Im actually not even sure the admissions process is the same for someone on an academic "full ride" or even as a recruit for a sport, as it is for a non-athlete, and as such they may never count against each other... I could (it may be wrong) see it as University X admits 5000 Freshmen each year, they also admit 500 "athlete freshmen" per year.... In this way, a 3.4 "Football player" is competing against a 3.8 "fencer"... in which case, the fencer should win every time, because the fencer realizes that there is very little prospect of "going pro" in fencing, and will focus more on academics than athletics, until such a time as the are well in season.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/23 19:36:02
Subject: UNC report finds 18 years of academic fraud to keep athletes playing
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Ensis Ferrae wrote:
What's worse is, there was a lady.. I want to say she was a professor actually at UNC, who was commissioned, by the school to do just this exact sort of report, and IIRC they fired her and accused her of faking the results for "fame" as a "whistleblower" for academic fraud.
I've read articles about how, at FSU there were numerous football players making horrible anti-gay remarks, right in front of their gay professor... some even went so far as physical intimidation of professors in order to keep grades that would allow them to play.
I love college football, but I absolutely HATE that it has come to a level where, so many schools are completely comfortable with sacrificing academic integrity for a few more numbers in the W column of their sports' teams books. I know that this isn't just football (as UNC is demonstrably a basketball school), but I also know that there are still some "pure" sports out there within the university system... What is kind of sad though, is that those "pure" sports are those that either do not have scholarships, or are not viewed as Varsity athletic programs (such as rugby)
Marry Willingham
CNN
Willingham said there are athletes at UNC who are reading at a third- and fourth-grade level. She said there is no way for them to succeed in a college classroom; the only place they can succeed is on the football field.
Willingham is one of the few people CNN could find who's looking at the reading levels of athletes in revenue-generating sports football and basketball.
"They're leaving here, our profit-sport athletes, without an education. They're significantly behind the level of reading and writing that's required," Willingham said.
With the permission of the university, she combed through eight years' worth of test scores, and found that up to 25 percent of athletes in revenue sports don't have the skills to take classes at a community college, let alone a competitive university like UNC.
Looking at 183 football and basketball players between 2004 and 2012, Willingham found that 8 percent were reading below a fourth-grade level and 60 percent were between a fourth- and eighth-grade reading level.
The NCAA told CNN that in 2012, 30 revenue-sport athletes were made eligible despite very low SAT or ACT scores -- a number it said is a small percentage of the 5,700 basketball and football players admitted that year.
CNN chose a sampling 37 public universities across the country where open records laws apply, and asked for entrance exam scores for football and basketball players during the past six years.
CNN received data back from 21 Division I universities, including top-25 ranked football schools like Texas A&M, Georgia, Oklahoma State, Ohio State and Clemson.
Most schools had between 7 and 18 percent of football and basketball players scoring so low on the reading or writing portion of their exams that experts said they would only be reading at an elementary level.
It was a big story locally. Some people took issue with her methodology and conclusions. I never read the actual paper she wrote and I didn't major in statistics or education so I can't judge the validity of her conclusions. It certainly doesn't surprise me though.
In UNC's defense having incoming freshmen who read at a 4th grade level isn't their fault. The NCAA sets the minimum standards for admittance and scholarships and UNC wasn't responsible for the athletes' K-12 education. Academic favoritism for athletes doesn't start in college it starts much earlier than that, even before high school sometimes. A lot of people and institutions derive financial benefits from successful athletic programs and it corrupts the very people who are charged with looking out for the athletes' best interests.
Colleges make millions from football and basketball. The money earned from football television contracts pays for the majority of the whole athletic department. Coaches get paid millions, ADs get paid millions, the school takes in millions in ticket sales, parking, merchandise, etc. Studies have shown that having a good football program increases alumni donations and applications for admission. It's gotten to a point where players are getting recruited before they even get to high school. It's a multi billion dollar business and its built on the backs of 18-22 year old kids.
The athletes have to maintain their academic eligibility and unfortunately for UNC back in 1993 Debbie Crowder decided she would "help" athletes by offering indepdent stude AfAm courses where she could grade the students' "papers" herself to make sure they got the grades they needed. It's all kinds of cheating, the players get cheated out of getting a better education, the university cheats the NCAA requirements and it's own standards, it's embarassing for everybody involved.
It was a classic case of giving people the kind of "help" that only makes this worse. Allegely Crowder felt bad for students that were struggling, probably the same kind of students Willingham had found in her study, but instead of helping them by offering remedial classes that improved their scholastic ability, Crowder just gave them fake classes to pump up their GPA. Nobody had to learn anything they just got the grades they needed to keep playing. Since the vast majority of college athletes don't become pro athletes the only people getting hurt were the students she was helping. Now the NCAA is going to come down on UNC like a ton of bricks.
The athletes don't deserve all the blame. The coaches, academic advisors and tutors for multiple sports teams all knowingly steered athletes to take the fake classes to keep their GPA up. Scholarship athletes are dependent on their scholarship to stay in school and if their coaches and advisors tell them that they need to take a certain course they'll take it without question. It's a testament to the integrity of Roy Williams that he was smart enough to realize the AfAm clases might be fraudelent and to make basketball players stop taking them. Nowadays Div1 college football isn't about anything other than making money. Given the enormous amount of money involved in it there's no way it could be about anything else. Automatically Appended Next Post: jasper76 wrote:@cincey: All I'm saying at bottom, cincey, is if a 3.4 student athlete is competing for admissions with a 3.5 non-athlete student, the 3.5 should win every time....even if the other guy is a Larry Bird, or a Lawrence Taylor, or a Usain Bolt.
I do not know hard numbers about how often this prinicple of mine is violated. I know it happens.
The school has chosen to have an athletic department and field various athletic teams. Somebody has to play on those teams and the school wants those teams to have success. Therefore coaches are going to be allowed to go to bat for certain applicants to be admitted. If an applicant with a 3.4 GPA is also a player that the football coach thinks will make the team and help them win games, thereby allowing the school to enjoy all the ancillary benefits of a winning football program then the school is going to admit that applicant over an applicant with a better GPA that isn't going to do anything to benefit the school. That's how it actually happens.
The same thing happens with schools that are renown for their research facilities where there is a lot of competition to get in to certain programs or majors and the school derives money from farming out it's labs and students to companies.
Also, it's important to note that for scholarship sports in all divisions that those scholarship slots are only available to athletes because they're athletic scholarships. The QB at Ohio State isn't taking a spot away from anybody, he's using one of the 85 allotted football scholarships. Nobody is competing for those scholarships except football players so they aren't taking slots away from anybody other than other football recruits.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/23 19:43:55
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/23 19:52:44
Subject: UNC report finds 18 years of academic fraud to keep athletes playing
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Student Athletes have a lot of variety:
There are some who are good at sports and who know that they could never afford a university degree, they know that being good at sports can pay the way for them to get a degree that lets them earn a living after graduation.
There are some who just love to play. They know they won't play forever or go pro, but they love the game and being part of a team. They also are thankful for the opportunity to get an education in the process.
They are some who hate education, who have absolutely zero interest in having a university education. They just want to play, they just want to go pro, and they are only at the university because they have to be so that they can play. They wouldn't be there if they had another way to get to the pros.
I don't think that Student Athletes are the guilty party for the system we have. I think they are stuck in a system that was created by the pro-leagues and the NCAA to maximize profits for each of them and that had very little regard for the actual athletes. I think that what we have now is basically a deal where the NCAA offers to train them for "free" in exchange for getting to keep them for a minimum of X years before the pro-teams can have them. That way both get their cut and the athletes are stuck in a system where they "have" to go to college in order to play and try-out for a pro-team.
We have a weird system where amateur sports is almost completely tied to the education system, unlike many other countries.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/10/23 19:54:07
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/23 19:54:04
Subject: UNC report finds 18 years of academic fraud to keep athletes playing
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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cincydooley wrote:Said by someone that has never been any good at sports or played anything on a competitive level."
hotsauceman1 wrote:Yes, it is not like I did wrestling or Boxing.
Nope, I never did sports at all.
cincydooley wrote:If that's "all you [saw]" then you truly haven't.
That's a nice Scotsman you have there.
Be a shame if he wasn't... a true Scotsman.
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lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/23 19:56:25
Subject: UNC report finds 18 years of academic fraud to keep athletes playing
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Member of the Ethereal Council
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cincydooley wrote: jasper76 wrote:My opinion...sports shouldn't be part of undergraduate education AT ALL (other than Sports Management and stuff like that).
I don't entirely disagree with you...in regards to the BIG 2. But then what happens to the tennis players? Or the swimmers? Or the women's field hockey team?"
You have to remember that if you get rid of the Big 2 (Football and Basketball), you get rid of ALL intercollegiate sports.
Intercollegiate sports are tied to American Universities pretty inexorably.
The sad fact is that when a high school athlete gets an athletic scholarship, another, more worthy student academically does not get a scholarship.
This is a really unfortunate statement.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
hotsauceman1 wrote:On which? That I did sportsome or the comptitiveness, because I saw it alot. In my own school they spray painted the bronze statue of the other school mascot in our colors.
You need to reevaluate your definition of "competitiveness;" spray painting the other schools mascot has nothing to do with it.
And yes, I don't believe that you participated in any sports for long enough or at a high enough level to learn any of the multitude of things that make TONS of former athletes very successful in the business world.
Thanks for the calling me a liar Cincy. I did do wrestling and boxing. Andy knew several people in other sports. They learned to throw a ball or a punch. Not the instructions and outs of business. Sports should not be poisoning Academia like this
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/23 19:57:15
Subject: UNC report finds 18 years of academic fraud to keep athletes playing
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Sniping Reverend Moira
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Ouze wrote:cincydooley wrote:Said by someone that has never been any good at sports or played anything on a competitive level."
hotsauceman1 wrote:Yes, it is not like I did wrestling or Boxing.
Nope, I never did sports at all.
cincydooley wrote:If that's "all you [saw]" then you truly haven't.
That's a nice Scotsman you have there.
Be a shame if he wasn't... a true Scotsman.
I'll be honest, I have no idea what this means.
You're also taking the second quote pretty far out of context. HSM's definition of "competitiveness" is pretty integral to the 2nd quote. Automatically Appended Next Post: hotsauceman1 wrote: Thanks for the calling me a liar Cincy. I did do wrestling and boxing. Andy knew several people in other sports. They learned to throw a ball or a punch. Not the instructions and outs of business. Sports should not be poisoning Academia like this
You're quite welcome.
I'm not going to get anywhere with this line of discussion without getting hit with the banhammer, so I'll drop it.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/23 19:58:46
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/23 20:00:30
Subject: UNC report finds 18 years of academic fraud to keep athletes playing
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Member of the Ethereal Council
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/23 20:03:00
Subject: UNC report finds 18 years of academic fraud to keep athletes playing
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Sniping Reverend Moira
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Well in that case it's definitely wrong.
My comment regarding "competitiveness" was in direct reply to your notion that "competitiveness" involved spray painting bronze bulls (or some other nonsense) and stealing mascots.
It doesn't.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/23 20:03:12
Subject: Re:UNC report finds 18 years of academic fraud to keep athletes playing
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Esteemed Veteran Space Marine
My secret fortress at the base of the volcano!
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The sad thing is, I was seeing this sort of gak in my high school twenty years ago with our basketball team. The administration did everything it could to ensure that F+ and D- students were able to play, despite the school allegedly having academic standards and GPA minimums for athletes to be able to participate in sports.
It was a private school, which meant people paid tuition to be there. Of course, really good basketball players got tuition discounts, so their families weren't paying as much to send them there. We had one of the top ten nationally-ranked private school basketball teams, so I assume the system was working, but it was disheartening to see a bunch of guys who did not give a feth about academics being granted a free pass by the administration to do whatever they wanted (they also avoided any disciplinary action for bad behavior) just because they could dribble a ball.
One guy scored a 0 on a math test, given by a teacher who (no joke) awarded students 5 points of extra credit for spelling their own names correctly. That kind of failure takes effort.
The school was touted as a "college preperatory" school. After seeing how UNC was running its athletic program, I would have to say that my high school was doing its best to provide the full college experience to students...
To be fair, though, we had a few basketball players who were actually in the school to learn, but they were in the minority. I can think of three who did well academically, one of which who actually earned himself an academic scholarship to a four year university.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/23 20:07:19
Emperor's Eagles (undergoing Chapter reorganization)
Caledonian 95th (undergoing regimental reorganization)
Thousands Sons (undergoing Warband re--- wait, are any of my 40K armies playable?) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/23 20:04:21
Subject: UNC report finds 18 years of academic fraud to keep athletes playing
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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d-usa wrote:Student Athletes have a lot of variety:
There are some who are good at sports and who know that they could never afford a university degree, they know that being good at sports can pay the way for them to get a degree that lets them earn a living after graduation.
There are some who just love to play. They know they won't play forever or go pro, but they love the game and being part of a team. They also are thankful for the opportunity to get an education in the process.
They are some who hate education, who have absolutely zero interest in having a university education. They just want to play, they just want to go pro, and they are only at the university because they have to be so that they can play. They wouldn't be there if they had another way to get to the pros.
I don't think that Student Athletes are the guilty party for the system we have. I think they are stuck in a system that was created by the pro-leagues and the NCAA to maximize profits for each of them and that had very little regard for the actual athletes. I think that what we have now is basically a deal where the NCAA offers to train them for "free" in exchange for getting to keep them for a minimum of X years before the pro-teams can have them. That way both get their cut and the athletes are stuck in a system where they "have" to go to college in order to play and try-out for a pro-team.
We have a weird system where amateur sports is almost completely tied to the education system, unlike many other countries.
I agree with all of that. I think the people that are to blame if we really wanted to assign blame, are the fans. The problem with Div 1 football and basketball is MONEY. There is so much money involved that it makes everything else secondary to getting that money. The biggest reason that there's so much money being poured into Div 1 football and basketball is because there are millions of fans out there that will attend the games, watch the games on tv, buy the merchandise, call into the sports radio shows, etc. If people weren't spending so much money on college sports and ratings for it weren't so great there'd be a lot less money involved and the focus could be put back on the fun, positive aspects of collegiate sports.
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Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/23 20:19:14
Subject: Re:UNC report finds 18 years of academic fraud to keep athletes playing
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Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre
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It's things like this that make me mad people only care about GPA.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/23 20:42:33
Subject: UNC report finds 18 years of academic fraud to keep athletes playing
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Member of the Ethereal Council
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cincydooley wrote:
Well in that case it's definitely wrong.
My comment regarding "competitiveness" was in direct reply to your notion that "competitiveness" involved spray painting bronze bulls (or some other nonsense) and stealing mascots.
It doesn't.
tell that to my high school FB team. Because to them the spirit of competition involved childish pranks.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/23 20:51:01
Subject: UNC report finds 18 years of academic fraud to keep athletes playing
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[DCM]
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I thinking that your limited personal perspective might not be entirely representative here.
Just guessing though!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/23 20:56:44
Subject: UNC report finds 18 years of academic fraud to keep athletes playing
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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hotsauceman1 wrote: cincydooley wrote:
Well in that case it's definitely wrong.
My comment regarding "competitiveness" was in direct reply to your notion that "competitiveness" involved spray painting bronze bulls (or some other nonsense) and stealing mascots.
It doesn't.
tell that to my high school FB team. Because to them the spirit of competition involved childish pranks.
I was a 3 year varsity letter winner in football in high school and a team capt as a senior and went on to play multiple sports in college. Please believe me when I tell you that the teenage boys on your high school football team didn't pull childish pranks on other schools because of "competitiveness." They did it because teenagers are immature and pranks are fun. Nobody spray paints statues because of their fierce desire to be the best, they do it for the ego stroke of getting away with being a dbag. That's my anecdotal take on it from being a jockocracy ringleader in HS.
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Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/10/23 21:06:23
Subject: UNC report finds 18 years of academic fraud to keep athletes playing
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Member of the Ethereal Council
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Alpharius wrote:I thinking that your limited personal perspective might not be entirely representative here.
Just guessing though!
Maybe, I Hate Sports in Academia. IT is a stain and poisons good universities in letting in morons who can throw balls so they can continue to sell tickets to their gakky events. It does not let those with actual promise in.
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