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 Wilson wrote:
New Photo http://instagram.com/p/urAMMbAPvU/?modal=true

here you go, brought it out for you

I don't play Tyranids, but I like the looks of this thing. With a better color scheme (not the standard GW tyranid one), that model could look pretty terrifying. I like that it doesn't have any eyes. The tongue is a bit much, but the Cthulu face is pretty rad. Hope he is good ruleswise. I also hope that you get access to the dataslate for free when you buy him. But this is GW, so probably not.

SOLD!
Love the tentacle beast.
I wonder if there will be more nid releases in the coming weeks as I'd rather make one large order from the flgs and get a better discount. I'd also like a couple of these asap so I'll probably just cave in and get them the second they're released. So fickle.

I actually think the abdomen and legs look really awkward from these photos. Will need the 3D rotation before I decide.

I like the better picture of the Malecptor.

If the Power is D3+1 glance, then I could see getting on board for that, possibly.

I like both of the models. Just really need the rules now!

Toxicrene 160-ish pts (Heavy Choice, unit composition: 1)

WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
3 3 5 6 5 3 6 8 4+

Special rules
Fearless, Instinctive behavior (feed), Poisoned 2+, Shrouded, Hypertoxic (6's to wound inflicted by poisoned weapons whether in combat and in shooting= instant death)

Weapons/Biomorphs
Acid Blood, Choking cloud, Lash whips, Toxic miasma

Choking cloud
Rng S AP Type
12" 3 - Assault 1, Ignores cover, Large Blast, Poisoned 2+, Hypertoxic, Predatory sentience (Gets armorbane against open topped vehicles
and vehicles that have already lost one or
more hull points)

Maleceptor 205-ish points (Elites Choice, unit composition: 1)

WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
3 3 6 6 5 3 3 10 4+

Special rules
Psyker (lv 2)
Shadow in the warp
Synapse Creature

Weapons/Biomorphs
Scything talons

Powers
Maleceptor always knows Psychic Overload and must generate the remainder of its powers from the Hive Mind chart

Psychic Overload: Warp charge 2. Focused Witchfire. Range 24". Target must take a Ld test on 3d6 (Vehicles can be affected as well and count as having Ld 10 for the attack). If the test is failed the target takes d3 wounds no armor/cover saves allowed. Vehicles that fail take a glancing hit with no cover allowed. The psyker may attempt to manifest this power up to 3 times in each of its psychic phases. Each attempt must be resolved separately. However a single enemy unit cannot be the target of Psychic Overload more than once a psychic phase.

I think we should all avoid buying it to send a message to GW. 4+ armour saves, really? Also nice to see the WS3 and BS3 stat remain.

Awesome, more bad MCs for nid players to not use/buy.. What exactly is the purpose of this release?

Nothing says "Super predatory species evolved to overcome any obstacle" like Monstrous Creatures that swing at the same time as Guardsmen and hit them on 4's.

Well, that seals the deal. Both are incredibly terrible.

I don't understand how they can keep doing this to Tyranids.

While I am happy that Nids are getting some attention - its not the kind we want really.

GW is still confused on what they sell, and why their customers buy (or don't ) buy it.

Oh yeah, they will sell some of these, they will indeed. Then some will say, "see, cool models sell...".

Models with cool fluff will sell.
Models that look cool will sell.
Models that have good rules will sell.

Models that have good fluff, look cool, AND have good rules?
That is printing money.

Of course these could be amazing on the table; perhaps some combo or rules is not clear yet. I already have nid units that don't quite work on the table top.

For $73 if I want something to just sit on my "cool model" display case, I will just get the fine molds slave 1 kit I have been thinking about.
(gw, you are NOT the only company in the world that makes cool minis....).

Yes gw, you do indeed need market research.

Want to hear a joke?

The Toxicrene's ranged attack can scatter onto itself, where it has a 1 in 18 chance of instant deathing the Toxicrene, still a 1 in 6 chance of it wounding itself. Sure glad that the ranged attack ignores cover.

Thanks GW for fixing the gaps in the Tyranid Codex, thanks.

The Toxicrene *could* be useful in a niche kind of way. It's pretty lethal to MCs (and especially Wraith-stuff), although it's debatable if a Dimachaeron is better. Really it boils down to another unit easily capable of killing massed infantry and light vehicles, which was never an issue for Tyranids to begin with. Good if you want to run a theme list with Malanthropes and Venomthropes I guess, but nothing exciting.

That Maleceptor is actually insultingly bad. It needs 12 warp charges per turn to make use of it's power, but only generates 2 and has BS3 to boot. That won't be an issue of course as the 4+/5++ means it'll be a smoking crater by turn 2. They say never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity, but the only explanation I have for this is that the rules writers are both dumb AND wanted to send a big 'feth-you' to Tyranid players.

I had plans to get a barbed hierodule from forgeworld. Then I heard about this release and thought "maybe I should get these instead?" After looking at the rules I will stick with 12 S10 shots per turn from the hierodule thanks.

Personally I think the guy who has written these rules is trying to get the guy who sculpts the models the sack - "see nothing made by Bob ever sells!".

We'll know if the rules suck if they are confirmed after the models are launched.

Both could be fixed with a couple of simple changes like rampage, 12" movement, 3+ save, and the leadership test for an additional D3 wounds per unit.

Lol, I saw this coming a mile away. More money for something else, I guess.

What in he designers head said "another slow, lackluster big bugs will sell to the players that love them"?

Its probably same guy who thought yes the trygon is the same pace as a terminator

Well, at least I can keep my money for that pair of Malanthropes I've been wanting instead.
I do hope they put out this rumoured BA vs Tyranid box/book. Now THAT would be something to get excited about.

Its probably same guy who thought yes the trygon is the same pace as a terminator

GW doesn't understand that larger strides and longer legs = more distance covered.

Ok, after looking back, I was a lot harder on the Toxicrene than I should have.

It's actually pretty usable I think. the WS3 sucks, but at least it has 6 attacks, and strikes at I6. The Cloud is also not terrible.

So, I think I could find a use for it.

The Maleceptor though, I think wins the prize for the worst TMC. Hands down. That thing is worse than the Harsupex even.

 Sasori wrote:
Ok, after looking back, I was a lot harder on the Toxicrene than I should have.

It's actually pretty usable I think. the WS3 sucks, but at least it has 6 attacks, and strikes at I6. The Cloud is also not terrible.

So, I think I could find a use for it.
.

...but then it has a 4+ save.

Sure you can find a use for it, but is it a use that isn't already covered by something better?

You can find a use for any unit in the game.. just it may not be useful.

The problem is that a 'small' tweak ends up overpowering it. And most 'Nid players (me included) tend to be far too pesimistic regarding our balancing.

'Change it to BS/WS 4' sounds like a small change. In reality, it's going to turn something over-powered quickly.

The Toxicrene looks very playable IMHO.

Overpowered because it has the same WS/BS as half of the armies in the game? Sorry but +1WS or BS does not make a unit overpowered.. it still has weak guns, slow and a poor armor save.

 Sasori wrote:
Ok, after looking back, I was a lot harder on the Toxicrene than I should have.

It's actually pretty usable I think. the WS3 sucks, but at least it has 6 attacks, and strikes at I6. The Cloud is also not terrible.

So, I think I could find a use for it.

And Hypertoxic works nice with Toxic Miasma....and the crappy armour save works with Acid Blood?
But yeah, the Toxicrene look like it will work wonders against hordes of low-armour units like ork boy mobs. But Tyranids don't really need help in the anti-light infantry department.

I'm really glad that I don't like the new models aesthetically, especially now that we have sort of confirmed rules.

Malaceptor needs at least 6 WC to glance a Rhino to death. But you're more than likely rolling more dice, increasing chance of perils. It also provides only two WC. Oh wait, it has BS3 so hits 1.5 times on a Rhino...oh wait it hits 0.5 times since the same unit can't be targeted twice. Nids don't need help getting that last HP off, they need help stripping HPs off.

Toxicrene has S3 Armourbane. Wow. For ten points more you can get an Exocrine, which is more likely to do damage, at a further range too. Or for ten points less you get a Dakkafex, or for 20 points less a Mawloc. It's also not that good in Anti-Horde, as it's only 12 inches shooting. Might as well as well say 'here, come tarpit me'.
Wait, it occupies the same slot as the Carnifex, Mawloc and Exocine? Horribly outclassed.

4+ save is just awful for a big lumbering target. I'm fine with it on Harpies/Hive Crones since they have Snap Shot defense, but these new models don't.

I don't understand where GW is going with this WS3. MC have Fear...but practically only one army cares about Fear and mitigates it with Boss Poles.

GW's next joke: New Tyranid Codex, nerf Flyrant into the ground by removing wings and increasing price, buff absolutely nothing.

 Frozocrone wrote:
GW's next joke: New Tyranid Codex, nerf Flyrant into the ground by removing wings and increasing price, buff absolutely nothing.

A single tear just rolled down my face....


The thought of that terrifies me >.<!

 Kirasu wrote:
Overpowered because it has the same WS/BS as half of the armies in the game? Sorry but +1WS or BS does not make a unit overpowered.. it still has weak guns, slow and a poor armor save.

Do half the armies in the game have access to poison, dirt cheap troops, excellent FMCs and the ability to horde the hell out of the opposition?

We can do army comparisons till the cows come home.

People just see stats in isolation and write it off. Synergy is the name of the game, that's the point of being a Tyranid player. Imperial Knights are for those that just want isolated big kill units that require no thought.

Not that I agree with it, but my speculative reasoning for GW's WS 3 and BS 3 in these Monstrous Creatures is to make it a lumbering beast so that Imperial characters can look good smashing it in close combat. The 4+ armor is so that things like heavy bolters and autocannons can chip wounds off. What they don't seem to get is that adding all this on top of a slow creature, expecting it to walk up a table, is consigning it to death, and no amount of random special rule tweaking or addition is going to change that fundamental fact. Those characteristics almost seem to show these creatures are only meant to kill off random mooks until the enemy character shows up to smash its face in.

I think both these creatures suffer from a lack of clearly defined role. Killing off lightly armored infantry or open-topped light vehicles isn't really something Tyranids need more of, and the rumored rules show a lack of focus and almost just a semi-random piling on of special rules in some vain attempt to give it some utility.

As someone who loved tyranids back in 3rd/4th (when they were usually presented as a horde of teeth and claws with the occasional big bug to keep them going in the right direction), I've got to ask:

Why do GW hate Tyranids so much? Others have explained why these things are so lacklustre, but it genuinely baffles me why this one army is so consistently relegated to cannon-fodder status.

 Frozocrone wrote:
GW's next joke: New Tyranid Codex, nerf Flyrant into the ground by removing wings and increasing price, buff absolutely nothing.

And BS2 on the Exocrine no doubt, 'cause Tyranids aren't meant to shoot!