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Hey Dakka, wanted to get a few opinions on something.

I sent out some Khorne stuff, 40 plastic bloodletters, 10 metal, and a thirster. All assembled relatively well (at least all together) I packed it decently with bubble wrap, I am a rather prolific trader and havent had an issue before.

My most recent buyer messaged me back that everything was annihilated, and requested a full refund, when I asked for pics I recieved these. http://imgur.com/a/xRbLi#0

Do you think this is well beyond normal wear and tear? I personally thought the damage was rather petty, and would be easy to reglue/ within the realm of damage from shipping. All of the breaks are at areas where one would assemble the miniature, IMO its quite possible that heat just weakened the glue. Should I just issue a full refund? Or is he just being difficult?

Would like some input to see if I am just being a bad seller, I am a prolific trader, but rather new to selling.


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I'm sorry if this is not the proper place, closest I could think of.

Eh, that's easy to fix stuff. I get breaks like that just transporting my models from home to the FLGS. I think he just wants free models.

That'd be refund territory if it were something like a collectable action figure or a porcelain doll.

He is willing to return the models, can't be that. Seems like a nice guy. I was thinking buyers remorse....

Ask straight up if it's buyers remorse. If so, be the gentleman and ask for positive review?

If not, consider negotiating a partial refund. Maybe 10% of original sale.

I did hint at that, did not directly ask, its gotten to the point of a Paypal claim. I just want to be a good seller with happy customers, I just don't like being shaken around.

I did offer a very small partial refund of 10 dollars to cover glue/time/possible greenstuff. He refused.

You can't please everyone.

He's backing out. Your models broke on the glue points due to heat, and therefor you're not responsible. He ships first. You refund when they arrive. End of story?

Sounds like you're best off just asking him to send them back and moving on. You'll likely lose a Paypal claim due to the damage (as easy as it may be to fix) so easier to just save the hassle.

Well, the thing was I didn't want them back. Because at that point I lost the $ from shipping, as well as time. That is actually what he offered to do, was to ship them back and get a refund.


Should I just do that, despite me not wanting the models/ not wanting to have wasted time/ losing shipping $?

Just do it, fighting for what is right when it comes to ebay and paypal just gets you bent over a barrel and worse for wear

edit: that is a lot of breakage though, if I bought that I'd be pretty annoyed at it too - regardless of how easy it is to fix.

 Lord Commissar wrote:
Well, the thing was I didn't want them back. Because at that point I lost the $ from shipping, as well as time. That is actually what he offered to do, was to ship them back and get a refund.

This is what you might have to do to keep up being a good trader.

And pack metal models a little better for shipping next time so this doesn't happen again.

They're all fixable, but have not been assembled strongly, so I'm not surprised they came apart.

They're not really in need of a refund IMO, as they are all so easy to fix. If -parts- we're broken as opposed to having come apart that might be a different matter, but that does not seem to be the case.

Moral of the story; use a good poly cement for plastics (plastruct do a superb plastic-weld product) and pin metals wherever possible, before packing in soft, motion absorbing material as well as bubble wrap.

My models tend to break off at the base->model frequently, too.

Its due to it being a superglue joint between a totally painted model, and pre-painted flock. Either the glue joint is weak due to brittle superglue, or because not enough glue got down into the recesses of the flock between it and the foot.

Also, sometimes the paint peels, leaving the glue with nothing solid to bond to but paint. When this happens, I scrape the excess off, and glue it again, using a pin this time if necessary.

 Lord Commissar wrote:
Well, the thing was I didn't want them back. Because at that point I lost the $ from shipping, as well as time. That is actually what he offered to do, was to ship them back and get a refund.


Should I just do that, despite me not wanting the models/ not wanting to have wasted time/ losing shipping $?

Don't worry, he's probably loosing on the same shipping fee anyway.

A bit of a loss on both sides, but probably the best way to deal with this if he is not willing to accept them as they are (or 10% refund). And you can sell them again (marking them as "in parts" so the story does not happen again)

Well I mean lots of stuff is busted....BUT its all fixable and looks like the breaks are just where they would normally be assembled.

I don't really care much about breaks and stuff as I can usually glue them back together fairly easily. There seems to be quite a bit of broken stuff tho but definitely fixable.

He probably just either doesn't want the models or doesn't want the work (even tho there isn't that much)

Did you have photos of the stuff prior to the posting so you can prove it was well packaged? I had a similar issue in the past where I had sold stuff on ebay and posted it and the person recieving it had claimed it was all damaged, after I provided pictures of it being packaged and asked for images of the damage the buyer suddenly changed their mind about how damaged it was and didnt message back.

Failing that was the stuff insured when posted, if its enough to be viewed as "damaged" then you may be able to claim any loss from the courier

I would refund the money. And, I have to be honest, if I had been the buyer, I'd have ask for a refund, too. Plastic miniatures breaking off of bases means a pretty poor packing job. That likely means that that heavy Bloodletter was rattling around in there, bouncing from side to side. I think he's being very reasonable in offering to send back everything, and as already mentioned, the buyer is losing out on time and money, too.

I think you need to be a bit more conscientious in your packaging. The odd arm or weapon breaking off is going to happen, but it shouldn't be the buyer's responsibility to repair half an army.

Sadly, I did not spring for the insurance. That would have made the ordeal easier, I will probably do that next time.

Thank all of you for your opinions, just working on figuring out my rights as a seller. It has already escalated to where Paypal is deciding.

I will either get my models back and offer a full refund, or the claim will be denied. C'est la vie.

Distance selling in the UK, you must give a refund within 7 working days if requested. Just because you don't want the models back wouldn't hold from a legal point of view. I don't know what the law is in the USA (too lazy to look) but if Paypal are anything to go by he will get his refund and you'll be without models too if you're not careful. Personally I would get the models back then refund him.

Paypal will almost always side with the buyer.

Just an FYI priority mail flat rate provides tracking & $50 insurance as part of the service & is often cheaper for large amounts of minis than other shipping options.

I always offer a refund on anything I sell. The only thing is I do not refund shipping. If the customer can not live with having to pay for return shipping then the problems must not be that bad enough to return.

That is probably what is going to end up happening.

I really do need to look at getting a bunch of those priority mail boxes. I find myseld shipping more and more lately.

Have you looked at the KR multicase Cardboard cases?
They are fairly reasonably prized, around 20 bucks each.
They should be fairy easy to bake into the price of the shipments.
Just a thought. :-)

I'm gonna side with the customer here. The damage may be easily fixable, but I suspect he did not agree to buy easily fixable models, nor did you price them to sell as broken though easily fixable models.

You priced and sold them as whole/unbroken ready to go models and that is what he paid for.

Use better glue, or do a better job at gluing. Consider using puffed rice as packing material.

I would be unhappy if I got figures in that condition if they were whole/unbroken when I paid for them. I may not go after a full refund, but I would expect the seller to offer some restitution.

I have to agree. If I was the customer I would expect you to either lower the price since he did not bid for damaged models or to revert the transaction. Since you can't agree on a reduced price a reversal is the only sensible option.

Also, shipping insurance does not cover damages due to poor packaging. I can't just throw a bunch of stuff in a box, and then tell the buyer to submit a claim to cover my intentional lack of care.

 the_Armyman wrote:
Also, shipping insurance does not cover damages due to poor packaging. I can't just throw a bunch of stuff in a box, and then tell the buyer to submit a claim to cover my intentional lack of care.

USPS insurance doesn't cover the buyer at all. It covers the person who sent the items, he/she is the one who has to submit the claim.

I packed it's pretty tight with bubble wrap


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Should I contact usps?

 Lord Commissar wrote:
I packed it's pretty tight with bubble wrap

That may be the case. The pictures show it was not effective though.

Refund all but the shipping costs, after they ship them back at their cost.

Always spring for the insurance in the future.