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Ok, as a Dad/husband, saw this and thought - 1. jeez thats crazy; 2. yes this reinforces every opinion I have about NY.

The video depicts a woman walking in NY for 10 hours and being constantly verbally harassed and catacalled.

http://www.npr.org/2014/11/01/360494480/woman-in-street-harassment-video-i-do-not-feel-safe-right-now

The now-viral YouTube video "10 hours of Walking in NYC as a Woman" has attracted more than 27 million views, sparked conversations about street harassment, inspired a parody, and provoked controversy about depictions of race all in less than the span of a week.
Another consequence: Actress Shoshana B. Roberts, the woman at the center of the video, has received violent threats.
"I do not feel safe right now," she tells NPR's Arun Rath.
"I'm alerting the police as to which jurisdiction I'm in, so my local precinct knows," says Roberts. "So hopefully it can be prevented if somebody does attempt something."
But Roberts says she doesn't regret participating in the project, a PSA for the non-profit anti-street harassment organization Hollaback!, because it has raised the issue with a wide audience.
Initially, Roberts says she found out about the project from an ad on Craigslist posted by the video's director, Rob Bliss, looking for an actress for the project. Roberts says she frequently encounters street harassment and catcalls, and she has personally experienced sexual assault. She was fed up, Roberts says, and the ad struck a chord.
"I saw these key words — 'raising awareness,' 'street harassment,' 'we have to do something about it' — and I felt the need to step in," she says.
"And I was like, 'I can keep my composure. I can do this,' " she says. " 'I have acting training. I have martial arts experience since I was 9. Should I go for the kneecaps or the sternum if anybody tries anything beyond?' Because it escalates so quickly."

So if you wanted to help tap that down, other the prudent use of a flamethrower, what could you do?

My only advice:

1.) When a woman is walking down the street, just leave her alone if she doesn't obviously want to talk to you. Eyes down, walking with purpose? Just leave her alone.

2.) If you are with a friend who catcalls, maybe tell him not to be a jerk?

That's all I got.

That, and this being the Dakka OT, I feel pretty good about being able to predict pretty much who is going to post in this thread and what they are going to say.

 Ouze wrote:
My only advice:

1.) When a woman is walking down the street, just leave her alone if she doesn't obviously want to talk to you. Eyes down, walking with purpose? Just leave her alone.

2.) If you are with a friend who catcalls, maybe tell him not to be a jerk?

That's all I got.

That, and this being the Dakka OT, I feel pretty good about being able to predict pretty much who is going to post in this thread and what they are going to say.

Yeah... this is about all I got as well. I mean, maybe not the eyes down part, cause lookin' aint a crime (as long as you're not staring/leering)

 Ouze wrote:
My only advice:

1.) When a woman is walking down the street, just leave her alone if she doesn't obviously want to talk to you. Eyes down, walking with purpose? Just leave her alone.

2.) If you are with a friend who catcalls, maybe tell him not to be a jerk?

That's all I got.
.

Yep, thats the reason for this thread. If you're a Dad, how do you help stop it? If you're a woman? (if you're both, that threads down the hall and to the left).
I never notice cities in Texas like that, but I could be wrong. Of course, almost no one walks downtown in Houston or Dallas.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
My only advice:

1.) When a woman is walking down the street, just leave her alone if she doesn't obviously want to talk to you. Eyes down, walking with purpose? Just leave her alone.

2.) If you are with a friend who catcalls, maybe tell him not to be a jerk?

That's all I got.

That, and this being the Dakka OT, I feel pretty good about being able to predict pretty much who is going to post in this thread and what they are going to say.

Yeah... this is about all I got as well. I mean, maybe not the eyes down part, cause lookin' aint a crime (as long as you're not staring/leering)

I think Ouze meant that if the woman is walking with purpose and looking down, you should leave her alone. Not that you should look down.

 Frazzled wrote:


Yep, thats the reason for this thread. If you're a Dad, how do you help stop it? If you're a woman? (if you're both, that threads down the hall and to the left).
I never notice cities in Texas like that, but I could be wrong. Of course, almost no one walks downtown in Houston or Dallas.

As a dad myself, I guess the only thing you really can do is train your spawn to not do gak like that, and "stop" the issue before it even starts?

You can't change others, only yourself. Best to avoid the situation, if possible, but if not...ignore it? Get thicker skin? I imagine guys like that are looking for a response, either from the woman or from their own pack of mouth breathers. Physical assailing is another kettle of fish, however. That's where tasers and pepper spray come in.

 Ashiraya wrote:
I think Ouze meant that if the woman is walking with purpose and looking down, you should leave her alone. Not that you should look down.

Yes, thank you.

Apparently 'avoiding it' means not leaving the house. Grow thicker skin? Going to the shops shouldn't involve enduring a barrage of comments and catcalls from pick up artists. I'm surprised she gets this many comments, clearly a rage number of men raised without any manners.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
My only advice:

1.) When a woman is walking down the street, just leave her alone if she doesn't obviously want to talk to you. Eyes down, walking with purpose? Just leave her alone.

2.) If you are with a friend who catcalls, maybe tell him not to be a jerk?

That's all I got.

That, and this being the Dakka OT, I feel pretty good about being able to predict pretty much who is going to post in this thread and what they are going to say.

Yeah... this is about all I got as well. I mean, maybe not the eyes down part, cause lookin' aint a crime (as long as you're not staring/leering)

I think Ouze meant that if the woman is walking with purpose and looking down, you should leave her alone. Not that you should look down.

It would be a pretty boring world if you weren't able to go and talk to women. How else would they know that I have a winning personality as well as an arse to die for? Oh yeah I see them undressing me with their eyes but it's their bloody hands I want them to use!

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:


Yep, thats the reason for this thread. If you're a Dad, how do you help stop it? If you're a woman? (if you're both, that threads down the hall and to the left).
I never notice cities in Texas like that, but I could be wrong. Of course, almost no one walks downtown in Houston or Dallas.

As a dad myself, I guess the only thing you really can do is train your spawn to not do gak like that, and "stop" the issue before it even starts?

Mine's 16...today!

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
Apparently 'avoiding it' means not leaving the house. Grow thicker skin? Going to the shops shouldn't involve enduring a barrage of comments and catcalls from pick up artists. I'm surprised she gets this many comments, clearly a rage number of men raised without any manners.

Well its NYK

Id figure it would be at the least flattering if not just creepy. so long as it doesn't get physical.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
Apparently 'avoiding it' means not leaving the house. Grow thicker skin? Going to the shops shouldn't involve enduring a barrage of comments and catcalls from pick up artists. I'm surprised she gets this many comments, clearly a rage number of men raised without any manners.

I agree, but any legal recourse I can imagine being implemented would be hard to enforce and fraught with unintended consequences. What's left? Avoid, ignore or engage. Engaging is the opposite of what I suppose these women want and further (likely)impractical. I can only muster a pay them no mind response, or yeah...take another route.

Be the change you want to see in the world. Or something.

I was kind of two thoughts about the video. For example, just after I watched the video my thought was. "Well, half those guys were just saying hello."

Then I thought about it a moment. "half those guys were just saying hello." - That's when the penny dropped. Half, a 50/50 chance, heads creepy comment, tails person says hello.

I certainly wouldn't want to have to deal with that in my life.


This was a CNN discussion on it.




It kind of proves the point the 'hollaback' group are making.
Just about the only halfway sensible point the guy makes during the video, that I kind of agree with is that there is a cultural element to it.

Certainly, in an English town, that wouldn't be happening I think, I've certainly never heard anything like that on the high street in the daytime where I am. You might hear some builders/brickies and the like trying it, however I think the tide is turning against that now with various initiatives. - Making a catcall isn't being worth losing your job over, for example. I may be talking complete rubbish on that though (or in general, to be honest.)

Scotland, is different. Though I haven't exactly listened out for it, I can things being very different. Small towns in Scotland have a tendency to live on a 'banter' culture so I could see some catcalls. However, I also imagine they'd be followed up from the target with a swift retort in the same vein. Scotland small town life doesn't tend to accept 'political correctness' as a whole.

The only time I've ever experienced / seen / heard things of this nature in real life though, is when the pubs close in the evenings and you have the migration of the drunkards to the clibs. Then, you will no doubt hear all manner of nastiness being bandied about, both in Scotland and England. Again, however, it does seem to be equal opportunity drunken slurs.

However, I might do an experiment the next time I'm in a town centre in Scotland and England, find a seat, read a newspaper or something and just listen. I'd really like to think otherwise but there's a good chance that I am just ignorant of it all because I'm not the target.

 Frazzled wrote:
Ok, as a Dad/husband, saw this and thought - 1. jeez thats crazy; 2. yes this reinforces every opinion I have about NY.

The video depicts a woman walking in NY for 10 hours and being constantly verbally harassed and catacalled.

http://www.npr.org/2014/11/01/360494480/woman-in-street-harassment-video-i-do-not-feel-safe-right-now

The now-viral YouTube video "10 hours of Walking in NYC as a Woman" has attracted more than 27 million views, sparked conversations about street harassment, inspired a parody, and provoked controversy about depictions of race all in less than the span of a week.
Another consequence: Actress Shoshana B. Roberts, the woman at the center of the video, has received violent threats.
"I do not feel safe right now," she tells NPR's Arun Rath.
"I'm alerting the police as to which jurisdiction I'm in, so my local precinct knows," says Roberts. "So hopefully it can be prevented if somebody does attempt something."
But Roberts says she doesn't regret participating in the project, a PSA for the non-profit anti-street harassment organization Hollaback!, because it has raised the issue with a wide audience.
Initially, Roberts says she found out about the project from an ad on Craigslist posted by the video's director, Rob Bliss, looking for an actress for the project. Roberts says she frequently encounters street harassment and catcalls, and she has personally experienced sexual assault. She was fed up, Roberts says, and the ad struck a chord.
"I saw these key words — 'raising awareness,' 'street harassment,' 'we have to do something about it' — and I felt the need to step in," she says.
"And I was like, 'I can keep my composure. I can do this,' " she says. " 'I have acting training. I have martial arts experience since I was 9. Should I go for the kneecaps or the sternum if anybody tries anything beyond?' Because it escalates so quickly."

So if you wanted to help tap that down, other the prudent use of a flamethrower, what could you do?

I would take this more serious if it didn't constitute a friendly good day as harassment...

This is NYC. Absolutely no one in 100 years there has wished a stranger a good day...

I mean, saying to someone "you are beautiful" isnt exactly harassment... neither is "hi how are you doing" "have a good day" "how are you doing?" yet these were all included as "harassment" cat calls in the video.... thats a pretty damn low bar to label things as "harassment" especially in a society where the guy is *expected* to initiate social contact with women he wants a relationship with.


Even the guy who "walked beside her *silently* for two minutes" is "harassment" apparently... because you cannot walk alongside people.


so, say "hi" to a woman, congratulations, you are a harassing sexual predator!

If I was wearing tight pants in new york for 10 hours, I bet I would get some people saying things to me too.

10 hours, one of the most dense population centers, she obviously edited the video to cut out the boring bits, and the most exciting "cat calls" are basically "hello beautiful."

Because, a man waling in new york for ten hours, wont have anyone approach him right?
how about 3 hours?






so here is the solution:

NO ONE TALK TO ANYONE NEW! EVER!!!


... actually thats already my go to solution for NYC

 easysauce wrote:

I mean, saying to someone "you are beautiful" isnt exactly harassment... neither is "hi how are you doing" "have a good day" "how are you doing?" yet these were all included as "harassment" cat calls in the video.... thats a pretty damn low bar to label things as "harassment" especially in a society where the guy is *expected* to initiate social contact with women he wants a relationship with.


Even the guy who "walked beside her *silently* for two minutes" is "harassment" apparently... because you cannot walk alongside people.


so, say "hi" to a woman, congratulations, you are a harassing sexual predator!

If I was wearing tight pants in new york for 10 hours, I bet I would get some people saying things to me too.

10 hours, one of the most dense population centers, she obviously edited the video to cut out the boring bits, and the most exciting "cat calls" are basically "hello beautiful."

Because, a man waling in new york for ten hours, wont have anyone approach him right?
how about 3 hours?






so here is the solution:

NO ONE TALK TO ANYONE NEW! EVER!!!


... actually thats already my go to solution for NYC

Actually the one walking beside her is the one I would have gotten aggressive with. That looked like a setup to a mugging.

or it could be two people heading the same way for 2 minutes...

stranger things have happened....

It looked like someone was walking beside her, in no way did it look like a mugging... by that rational, can a man get "aggressive" with a woman for walking beside him for two minutes?

 easysauce wrote:
or it could be two people heading the same way for 2 minutes...

stranger things have happened....

It looked like someone was walking beside her, in no way did it look like a mugging... by that rational, can a man get "aggressive" with a woman for walking beside him for two minutes?

You've clearly never met my wife. She's...from Chicago.


"flaming redheads are house crazy, but it takes a special kind of crazy to voluntarily join the flaming redhead brigade."
-Frazzled, commenting on his wife, shortly before his sudden disappearance.

As a parent I would say that we have to fight it through educating our kids that certain behavior isn't ok and that we have to be sure we're setting the right example ourselves. I also think we have to not be afraid or apathetic about calling people out if they're doing something wrong. A private comment to people remarking on the attractiveness of somebody you see is one thing but if I ever saw a friend or coworker of mine say something rude or lewd to somebody I wouldn't hesitate to tell them that they were out of line and I'd want my kids to do the same. If we want to have standards for civil behavior then we all need to do our part to let people know when they're being jerks.

I agree that you shouldn't confront rude strangers. I don't think you'd win the argument so it would be a waste of time and it's not worth the risk of things escalating.

I also think it's important to bear in mind that we can only control our own actions, how we do things not how others view them. Trying to strike up a conversation with a stranger isn't de facto harassment. If I try to start a conversation with a stranger in a polite and civil manner it could still be viewed by that stranger as an unwanted annoyance but that's very different from a crude comment.

editted to add:

If you or somebody you knew is being harassed by workmen or employees of a specific jobsite/store/whatever I would recommend contacting the management of the business being built or operating. Businesses are even more image conscious in these days of social media and nobody wants to get bad PR or lose sales because of rude workers and the offending people will listen to the people who sign their checks much more so than the strangers they're leering at.

 Frazzled wrote:

 easysauce wrote:
or it could be two people heading the same way for 2 minutes...

stranger things have happened....

It looked like someone was walking beside her, in no way did it look like a mugging... by that rational, can a man get "aggressive" with a woman for walking beside him for two minutes?

You've clearly never met my wife. She's...from Chicago.


"flaming redheads are house crazy, but it takes a special kind of crazy to voluntarily join the flaming redhead brigade."
-Frazzled, commenting on his wife, shortly before his sudden disappearance.

lol... I had the chain maille on for Halloween and the GF made quite the show of smacking me around, showing people how her elbows could still hurt me through it, and making jokes about it not protecting me when I got home.

I love that woman!



In general, treat everyone with respect, and stand up for others, pass that on to the kids and you are good.

Saying "hi you are beautiful" isnt disrespectful in itself, even if its not asked for.... we have to draw the line at a point where we are not penalizing every male who ever says "hi" to a girl, and its already at the point where men have almost no legal recourse for the most part in terms of abuse, rape, harassment, and domestic violence where they are the victims, while at the same time, they are almost always guilty until proven innocent when being accused of perpetrating such acts.

excellent points PJ

What's the difference between New Yorkers and pigeons?

Pigeons aren't gaking all over each other.

 daedalus wrote:
What's the difference between New Yorkers and pigeons?

Pigeons aren't gaking all over each other.

"You know the difference beteween them us Burke? You doin't seem them screwing over each other for a percentage."
-Ripley.

 daedalus wrote:
What's the difference between New Yorkers and pigeons?

Pigeons aren't gaking all over each other.

 Frazzled wrote:

 easysauce wrote:

I mean, saying to someone "you are beautiful" isnt exactly harassment... neither is "hi how are you doing" "have a good day" "how are you doing?" yet these were all included as "harassment" cat calls in the video.... thats a pretty damn low bar to label things as "harassment" especially in a society where the guy is *expected* to initiate social contact with women he wants a relationship with.


Even the guy who "walked beside her *silently* for two minutes" is "harassment" apparently... because you cannot walk alongside people.


so, say "hi" to a woman, congratulations, you are a harassing sexual predator!

If I was wearing tight pants in new york for 10 hours, I bet I would get some people saying things to me too.

10 hours, one of the most dense population centers, she obviously edited the video to cut out the boring bits, and the most exciting "cat calls" are basically "hello beautiful."

Because, a man waling in new york for ten hours, wont have anyone approach him right?
how about 3 hours?






so here is the solution:

NO ONE TALK TO ANYONE NEW! EVER!!!


... actually thats already my go to solution for NYC

Actually the one walking beside her is the one I would have gotten aggressive with. That looked like a setup to a mugging.

That guy was very creepy.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bishop F Gantry wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Ok, as a Dad/husband, saw this and thought - 1. jeez thats crazy; 2. yes this reinforces every opinion I have about NY.

The video depicts a woman walking in NY for 10 hours and being constantly verbally harassed and catacalled.

http://www.npr.org/2014/11/01/360494480/woman-in-street-harassment-video-i-do-not-feel-safe-right-now

The now-viral YouTube video "10 hours of Walking in NYC as a Woman" has attracted more than 27 million views, sparked conversations about street harassment, inspired a parody, and provoked controversy about depictions of race all in less than the span of a week.
Another consequence: Actress Shoshana B. Roberts, the woman at the center of the video, has received violent threats.
"I do not feel safe right now," she tells NPR's Arun Rath.
"I'm alerting the police as to which jurisdiction I'm in, so my local precinct knows," says Roberts. "So hopefully it can be prevented if somebody does attempt something."
But Roberts says she doesn't regret participating in the project, a PSA for the non-profit anti-street harassment organization Hollaback!, because it has raised the issue with a wide audience.
Initially, Roberts says she found out about the project from an ad on Craigslist posted by the video's director, Rob Bliss, looking for an actress for the project. Roberts says she frequently encounters street harassment and catcalls, and she has personally experienced sexual assault. She was fed up, Roberts says, and the ad struck a chord.
"I saw these key words — 'raising awareness,' 'street harassment,' 'we have to do something about it' — and I felt the need to step in," she says.
"And I was like, 'I can keep my composure. I can do this,' " she says. " 'I have acting training. I have martial arts experience since I was 9. Should I go for the kneecaps or the sternum if anybody tries anything beyond?' Because it escalates so quickly."

So if you wanted to help tap that down, other the prudent use of a flamethrower, what could you do?

I would take this more serious if it didn't constitute a friendly good day as harassment...

What about all the rest of it?

Don't you think that using the one "good day" as an excuse to ignore everything else makes you look like a creepy harassment apologist and a victim blamer?

Someone wished me a good evening once, it was horrible. I don't question for a second a good number of those were "cat calls" but a lot of what was left in just serves to muddy the waters of harassment.

I take issue with telling women how they should feel about this. Some women are afraid to admit they like the attention, some women feel threatened and shamed. The problem with making this so black and white is you remove all context where it's ok to approach or communicate with strangers.


Are we going to label panhandling universally as harassment? Some of it is aggressive, some of it is passive, often cases they'll still have the audacity to address a stranger verbally without consent... the horror... the horror.

Are we going to label panhandling universally as harassment?

Yes, especially if I am being panhandled while standing in line waiting for the bus. Get away from me you diseased lying hippy!