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There is a scene in City Slickers, and I'm dating myself since that movie is likely older than some Dakkanauts, where the men are sitting around the fire when the one woman in the group heads to bed.

One of them comments "Sleep well!" or something to that effect, and others look at him. They comment on him having a wife and he quips "What? That was, 'have a quiet and restful evening'." To which his friend replies "No, that was 'I like your <butt>, can I wear it as a hat?'

Yes, there are many people in that video who are saying normally innocuous things. "Good morning", "How are you?", "Have a good evening", thing like that.

If you think for a second that they actually care about the answer, and aren't simply attempting to segue into a "let me get your phone number" conversation, I'm not sure what to say.

Then we have this:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/11/04/video-shows-abduction-philadelphia-woman/


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 streamdragon wrote:
There is a scene in City Slickers, and I'm dating myself since that movie is likely older than some Dakkanauts, where the men are sitting around the fire when the one woman in the group heads to bed.

One of them comments "Sleep well!" or something to that effect, and others look at him. They comment on him having a wife and he quips "What? That was, 'have a quiet and restful evening'." To which his friend replies "No, that was 'I like your <butt>, can I wear it as a hat?'

Yes, there are many people in that video who are saying normally innocuous things. "Good morning", "How are you?", "Have a good evening", thing like that.

If you think for a second that they actually care about the answer, and aren't simply attempting to segue into a "let me get your phone number" conversation, I'm not sure what to say.

I kept a count one time, just out of curiosity. About 7 out of 10 times people asked how I was doing, or some other such phrase, was a leadup to asking for a favor, loan, etc.l

Truly, being beautiful is such a burdensome thing.

So, I'm late to the thread, but here's my two cents:

I think we try way too often, especially in the United States, to stop the action instead of teaching how to cope with the action. I think this kind of 'harassment' and 'bullying' are perfect examples of this. You cannot, nor should you, legislate against people being donkey-caves. It's going to happen. And that's why we need to teach people how to deal with the situations in addition to what we already do.

You can educate people until you're blue in the face; some will take something away from it, and some won't. But you can't solely focus on those people, regardless of how gakky it can be when people are donkey-caves.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crablezworth wrote:
Lena Dunham mentioned liking cat calls and received some flack for it.

Well of course she likes it.... It probably happens to her far less than someone that looks like Jessica Alba.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
Apparently 'avoiding it' means not leaving the house. Grow thicker skin? Going to the shops shouldn't involve enduring a barrage of comments and catcalls from pick up artists. I'm surprised she gets this many comments, clearly a rage number of men raised without any manners.

I'm surprised by the number of comments too, but for a different reason. When has catcalling EVER gotten someone laid? I really don't get why people do it in the first place.

I went to a dance club this weekend for Halloween. And the groping and dry humping was out of control. I was dancing with lots of women but I would ask them if they wanted to dance. One woman screamed at me like she was gonna use bear mace on me and I just went back to hanging out.

Apparently to her: "Do you want to dance" was "You gonna get raped"

Later in the night, when after 4 hours I had made friends with most people on the dance floor and I guess she observed I was not a murderer/rapist, she did come over and apologize to me for flipping out on me. I guess she observed me having normal respectful human interaction opposed to rubbing my junk on random girls from behind.

People in our society have 'shields up' and often for very good reasons. I am not going to stop holding doors for people and saying hello to acknowledge other humans in my general vicinity. I am sure I have 'harassed' people by these standards, but to assume every 'hello, have a nice day' is going to be a 'give me your number' I think is wrong.

But I am also an able-bodied white male who is 6'4" who lives a life of 'default' privilege so my simple act of forcing interaction on others re-enforces my power in society and tears down others ability to be seen as equals.

I think we need a more complicated system of rings for a more complicated time.

Ring finger ring still = married
Index finger ring = advances are welcome
Middle finger ring = advances are not welcome
Pinky finger ring = same sex advances welcome

(any combination thereof)

And for racists, or people attracted to only certain races, we can color code them. And for people who only like to date people of a certain religion, just plop the applicable religious symbol on the index finger ring. We can all get along, avoid harrassing people unintetntionally, and save time, if we just improve our social cues

 jasper76 wrote:

Pinky finger ring = same sex advances welcome

The Italian mob is fethed....

Even the mafia needs to be sensitive about harrassing people.

Well....on second thought...I guess its complicated.

 jasper76 wrote:
I think we need a more complicated system of rings for a more complicated time.

Ring finger ring still = married
Index finger ring = advances are welcome
Middle finger ring = advances are not welcome
Pinky finger ring = same sex advances welcome

(any combination thereof)

And for racists, or people attracted to only certain races, we can color code them. And for people who only like to date people of a certain religion, just plop the applicable religious symbol on the index finger ring. We can all get along, avoid harrassing people unintetntionally, and save time, if we just improve our social cues

Isn't that what candy bracelets were for? *looks at old sweeps-week news stories*

Part of the whole "why can't people even say hello" thing might be the location as well. How unusual is it for people in NYC to be outgoing and to say "how are you" and "good evening"? Here in Oklahoma you say hello to a ton of strangers, you hold the door open and say "good evening" to whoever happens to be behind you regardless of who they are. Everybody gets a "howdy" wave if you drive past them on a country road. I don't consider that harassing people since everybody is friendly to everybody. I don't know of that is the same in NYC, but if it isn't then the stuff in the video is a problem and I can see how it would qualify as cat calling.

 d-usa wrote:
I don't know of that is the same in NYC, but if it isn't then the stuff in the video is a problem and I can see how it would qualify as cat calling.

Porch sitting, i.e., sitting on a front porch or stoop, usually of a private residence is a leisure activity which can be a direct or indirect form of social interaction. This activity is a staple of most urban areas in the United States, and helps contribute to a lively atmosphere, for those sitting and also those passing by. As well as being a good way to connect with neighbors, it also is an important form of community security, helping to prevent crime.

Often you know a lot of the people as you see them regularly, but I could see a stranger not knowing the people could see it as threatening or harassment. I would say it is more of a 'you in my neighborhood, we see you' than 'I want to get your number and have sex with you.' I am going to say it probably is common in NYC to porch sit the way we do in other major US cities.

Some of those I think were just people porch sitting and they were probably saying all sorts of things to everyone who passed by. While I know 'Porch sitting' Can be harassment, especially of sexual nature... not all 'Hey, how you doing!' from porch sitters is an attempt to dis-empower women or 'get into their pants'. If you have no idea what porch sitting is, then I can see why people might feel harassed... I like talking to porch sitters when I walk in the city.

I do think there is a bit of 'scary minorities talking to virtuous white woman' which makes even the basic social introduction perceived as a threat. I am willing to take a lot of those 'call outs' on face value as it does seem like classic american porch sitting to me or simple polite social introductions, but of course, I don't have a woman's perspective on it.

This also seems fitting:

@d-USA: That's how it is where I live too. Honestly, stuff like this makes me really glad I don't live in an area where people distrust others or find them to be potential creepos by default.

 d-usa wrote:
How unusual is it for people in NYC to be outgoing and to say "how are you" and "good evening"?

As someone who lived in the Bronx for 25 years, at least some of which was working in Manhattan, I assure you that people in NYC do not just say hello to strangers normally. In fact, it's one of the first things that freaked me out when I came to Iowa. My sister had a similar reaction when she went to Oklahoma.

In the UK I've never known strangers greet each other where it is busy, so I almost never see it in the city. Usually, strangers only greet each other with a 'good morning' if it is quiet and there's no one else around, which is why you're quite likely to get it passing someone walking in the countryside or on an early Sunday morning walking to the local shop.

LOL imagine how I must frighten all the ladies and gentlemen around here.... saying hi and talking to them, shame on me!

I have a GF, have no intention to ask out anyone else, though to be frank, im not sure how you get to meet anyone new without saying "hi" to a stranger, which is apparently harassment according to some. And yes, this is saying "hi" with the *GASP* intention of getting to know that person and developing a relation ship, which might even include *GASP* consensual sex!

yet I smile, often say hello, hold open doors for *people* (ladies and men)....

I dont think I want to live in a world where saying "hi" is harassment.

this story seems to further justify my belief that new york city is the galaxies center of scum and villainy...

Yeah, I don't really see anything like this in the city, but then, I'm a dude. 'It's different for girls', to quote Joe Jackson. It happens to my missus, particularly with african dudes according to her - they even occasionally try to grab her wrist when she walks past. Not when I'm there obviously. They're thirsty, not suicidal.

I have noticed that they DO stare though, even when I'm with her. Like, standing in the street gawping, mouth open. It's crazy, and I must confess I am the sort of person to say 'what the feth are you staring at?' I'm not proud of it, and I expect men to look at her because she is beautiful, but staring, blatantly undressing a person with your eyes is just rude.


I think perhaps a lot of men on here (and in general) are judging this behaviour based on how THEY would feel - I'm sure if the roles were reversed, most dudes would like this level of attention.

For women, unwanted attention can be pretty scary. You gotta remember that most women are more slightly built and shorter than most men. If bigger, stronger people were giving me that sort of creepy attention, I'd be pretty freaked out. It's not all creepy, of course, but unfortunately the creeps ruin it for the rest of us decent blokes who just see a pretty girl and say 'hi', because frankly, we've sat through too many romcoms and have formed this daft idea that whirlwind romances can start from a chance meeting in the street. That said, it's worth remembering that when you say hi, however decent a guy you are, you are essentially saying 'would you please consider me as a sexual partner?'

Something to think about.


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 easysauce wrote:
LOL imagine how I must frighten all the ladies and gentlemen around here.... saying hi and talking to them, shame on me!

Well, if you live in place where that's normal behaviour, I'm sure you wouldn't frighten anyone. It's not normal behaviour in NY, or London, or in my city, Manchester. If someone randomly said hello to me on the street here, I'd think they were a murderer or a Jehova's witness.


I'm not sure which I'd prefer, to be honest.

[quote=easysauce 621756 7330884 e38fc245cda24ddf971cefa95472e77c.pngI have a GF, have no intention to ask out anyone else, though to be frank, im not sure how you get to meet anyone new

This whole New York thing sounds weird to me, because I ran into several friendly strangers when I was there. Whenever I smiled and said hi to a woman she'd smile and say hi back. The same went for men. I both engaged and got engaged in conversations in various places, with no hostility or weirdness at all. Nice city with even nicer people in my experience.

I never commented on anyones looks or whistled though, except those two middle aged black women

 Easy E wrote:


You can only meet new people in a controlled setting such as a dinner party, workplace, organized event, etc. where you can assume the crazy:sane ratio is much closer.

ummm I politely disagree with this... you most certainly can not only engage with new people at the workplace, dinner parties, or organized events with the intention of asking them out...

A: workplace hooking up is a no no
B: how do i get invited to the event full of people i do not know to meet them, if I do not know them?


that basically limits people to POF, speed dating, and bars and so on... things that have open invites that in no way dilute the "crazies" you speak of.

also, little bit sexist to assume more crazies on the male side(I doubt I could get away with calling women crazy in general, or the majority) , not to mention crazy people need love too as well!

are you going to tell me that POF and bars have a good crazy/non crazy ratio? is there some fence between the streets and bars/POF/ect that keeps the "street crazies" on the street?

I have heard plenty of women complain about being hit on in bars, at the workplace, various organized events, ect... The location a woman happens to be in is in no way an open ticket to ask them out... nor is it an obvious sign not to ask them out... the *ONLY* acceptable way to know if a women would enjoy your advances, is to *ACTUALLY ASK HER*.....
.

its *NOT THE APPROACH* its the women, what works for one women, wont work for another... what worked for one woman on monday might not work for her on tuesday... some like being approached in public, some hate it, some are ambivalent and walk past hollerers who "harass" them for a date the same way they walk by people who "harass" them for spare change/donations/ect

some women *GASP* even approach men on the street and say "hi", yet we wouldnt call that harrasment would we?

To presume that a womans location, dress, ect are an open invitation or a roadblock to talking to her in fact steals that womans agency and is sexist in that regard.


saying "you approached that women, who was on the street, her being on the street means she doesnt want to talk to you" is the same as saying "that woman was wearing a sexy dress that means she wants to talk to you"

The only fair, non sexist way to know if a woman wants to interact with you, is to communicate with her and ask.

 easysauce wrote:

 Easy E wrote:


You can only meet new people in a controlled setting such as a dinner party, workplace, organized event, etc. where you can assume the crazy:sane ratio is much closer.

ummm I politely disagree with this... you most certainly can not only engage with new people at the workplace, dinner parties, or organized events with the intention of asking them out...

A: workplace hooking up is a no no
B: how do i get invited to the event full of people i do not know to meet them, if I do not know them?

I'm just telling you how it works in the city. I'm not judging your position or approach.

I get that what is normal for new yorkers isnt normal for the rest of us,

but I highly doubt all the people clamouring about how awful the "harrassment" in this video is are all from NYC, nor would they just say this only happens in NYC.


Having a womans location determine if you can/cannot talk to her, be it in NYC stree or anywhere else's streets, disenfranchises that woman just as much as saying a womans clothing/makeup grants or denies you permission to do the same.

So can we all agree if it was indeed 10 hours of footage you could edit it to suit a lot of narratives?





Again, if I were to only leave in homeless individuals asking for money, could I not create either a story about harassment or a heartless individual who ignores the plight of the poorest among us?

I agree with you. The director could also have put together a video called "Woman walks in New York for 10 hours and the overwhelming majority of people ignore her", but that wouldn't support the point of the project, which the more I learn about, the more disingenuous I find it.

There's also something to be said about people acting like idiots for attention whenever they see a camera rolling.

I would have assumed they wouldn't see a camera rolling and it was concealed in a backpack of people walking in front for example

 Compel wrote:
I would have assumed they wouldn't see a camera rolling and it was concealed in a backpack of people walking in front for example

Good point...I don't know.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
After reviewing the video, the very beginning does imply that the camera was hidden.

If they just relase raw footage of her walking, maybe people can answer their own questions. Not the questions that the narrator asks also conveninently they answer.

 streamdragon wrote:
There is a scene in City Slickers, and I'm dating myself since that movie is likely older than some Dakkanauts, where the men are sitting around the fire when the one woman in the group heads to bed.

One of them comments "Sleep well!" or something to that effect, and others look at him. They comment on him having a wife and he quips "What? That was, 'have a quiet and restful evening'." To which his friend replies "No, that was 'I like your <butt>, can I wear it as a hat?'

Yes, there are many people in that video who are saying normally innocuous things. "Good morning", "How are you?", "Have a good evening", thing like that.

If you think for a second that they actually care about the answer, and aren't simply attempting to segue into a "let me get your phone number" conversation, I'm not sure what to say.

I find this funny. I mean, what's wrong with saying good morning, etc etc if you're being polite and friendly. In the end, as long as you're not forcing the people to stop and talk with you (and omg, I've had so much of that where strangers would literally just keep talking to me), it shouldn't even be considered harassment.

How do I stop stuff like this?
I look only, dont say anything.

I had a neighbor today be overly chatty with me while I was trying to get snow tires on. Come to think of it, I never really consented to 20 minutes of inane chit chat. At the same time there's no nice way to tell someone you don't really care what they're talking about, you have to get something done. Human interaction is a minefield, who hasn't watched seinfield, honesty is almost always taken the wrong way with disastrous results. There's nothing wrong with a neighbor wanting to chat, it will always be difficult to express that you're on a schedule and can't really chat. To infer ill intent on my neighbor I'd have to be pretty neurotic, that' doesn't mean that this situation wasn't mildly annoying. Granted I know this person, it wasn't some stranger who simply sauntered up thinking to make conversation. In that situation I might have been more guarded or suspicious, but even then, if I were to outright label that behavior as harassment I think it'd be hyperbolic. There is a line between undesirable social interaction and harassment.