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Someone asked me for the time today, I told them I didn't consent to being verbally communicated with and that time was a tool of the patriarchy lol

 Crablezworth wrote:
Someone asked me for the time today, I told them I didn't consent to being verbally communicated with and that time was a tool of the patriarchy lol

Check your privilege Time keeping Monopolist!

 Crablezworth wrote:
Someone asked me for the time today, I told them I didn't consent to being verbally communicated with and that time was a tool of the patriarchy lol

I am guessing you are not a young woman who is frequently verbally harassed in the streets by men.

To more seriously comment: My former roommate's girlfriend would get catcalls walking to and from our apartment, apparently. She dismissed them as annoying, but it didn't seem to bother her too much.

I was frankly stunned to hear that such a thing even happened still outside of some construction workers on break that even then only existed in a stereotypical picturesque moment frozen in my mind. As Amanda Palmer once said, "has any girl in history seriously responded, 'Oh sure, you seem so nice, lets get it on'?"

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:
Someone asked me for the time today, I told them I didn't consent to being verbally communicated with and that time was a tool of the patriarchy lol

I am guessing you are not a young woman who is frequently verbally harassed in the streets by men.

by the videos definition of verbal harassment, he is in fact the victim of verbal harassment by a man every time some one talks to him without permission.


Did you miss the video where a guy walks into the street, and gets just as much "harassment" as the girl, but in 3 hours.

 easysauce wrote:

Even the guy who "walked beside her *silently* for two minutes" is "harassment" apparently... because you cannot walk alongside people.

She clearly was walking past him in the video and he greeted her and then sped up to stay alongside and stay close. It's just weird, he was too close on a mostly empty pavement. I only walk that close to someone I'm actually walking with, he wasn't walking the same way by happenstance. There's no point in being coy, he's clearly a creep and it would spook a lot of women to have someone do that if they were on their own because of the risk of assault and robbery.

 daedalus wrote:
To more seriously comment: My former roommate's girlfriend would get catcalls walking to and from our apartment, apparently. She dismissed them as annoying, but it didn't seem to bother her too much.

I was frankly stunned to hear that such a thing even happened still outside of some construction workers on break that even then only existed in a stereotypical picturesque moment frozen in my mind. As Amanda Palmer once said, "has any girl in history seriously responded, 'Oh sure, you seem so nice, lets get it on'?"

Lots of girls do respond to "hi you are beautiful" or "hi how are you", some even respond to less sophisticated conversation starters, like whistling or dry humping in clubs.

If saying "Hi how are you" or otherwise telling a strange girl she is beautiful is "harassment" then i got every single girlfriend i ever had with it...

 easysauce wrote:

 daedalus wrote:
To more seriously comment: My former roommate's girlfriend would get catcalls walking to and from our apartment, apparently. She dismissed them as annoying, but it didn't seem to bother her too much.

I was frankly stunned to hear that such a thing even happened still outside of some construction workers on break that even then only existed in a stereotypical picturesque moment frozen in my mind. As Amanda Palmer once said, "has any girl in history seriously responded, 'Oh sure, you seem so nice, lets get it on'?"

Lots of girls do respond to "hi you are beautiful" or "hi how are you", some even respond to less sophisticated conversation starters, like whistling or dry humping in clubs.

If saying "Hi how are you" or otherwise telling a strange girl she is beautiful is "harassment" then i got every single girlfriend i ever had with it...

Did you do that while they were busy walking down the street?

 Howard A Treesong wrote:

 easysauce wrote:

Even the guy who "walked beside her *silently* for two minutes" is "harassment" apparently... because you cannot walk alongside people.

She clearly was walking past him in the video and he greeted her and then sped up to stay alongside and stay close. It's just weird, he was too close on a mostly empty pavement. I only walk that close to someone I'm actually walking with, he wasn't walking the same way by happenstance. There's no point in being coy, he's clearly a creep and it would spook a lot of women to have someone do that if they were on their own because of the risk of assault and robbery.

yes we should arrest all people for being creepy and doing things you wouldnt do...

same could be said for wargamers/MTG ect "omg how dare that creepy smelly guy come up to me and dare to talk to me then walk within a foot of me"

Arrest them? No.

beat them with shoes...YES!

 Frazzled wrote:

Did you do that while they were busy walking down the street?

Yes.... i hate meeting ladies in clubs or bars, not so bad now that smokings is banned,

so heaven forbid i actually talk to a woman while walking, at the shopping mart, whatever...

Walk up to a lady, smile say hello, and you would be surprised how often they stop to talk.
the difference is not in my approach, yet i have plenty of ladies who dont mind at all. some might even have been *gasp* happy to have met me

now some are acting like it should be illegal to walk up to a pretty girl at the market and say hi, you are pretty, wanna grab a coffee or something?



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 Frazzled wrote:
Arrest them? No.

beat them with shoes...YES!

THATS WORSE!!! oh the humanity, shoes HURT!

Grrrr fair point. Can I still hit you with a shoe? No? Wiffle bat?

According to the Hollaback website, you should share your stories about being harrassed on the streets with others.

Not much of a plan, but who knows?

Lena Dunham mentioned liking cat calls and received some flack for it. And that's really the problem for me, it's not so cut and dry. While I do think a lot of cat calling is likely crass, there is a difference between saying (paraphrasing a bit) "nice breasts want to engage in sexual activities!?" and "have a good evening".

It's difficult to reconcile "sex positive" feminist ideals and, well, whatever the opposite of that is. I mean, is there any context left where it's ok to be a bit honest about intentions? Is getting similar attentions from either sex going in either direction not at least more acceptable in a bar or nightclub?

I've wished people of both sexes "good evening/morning", often out of anxiety, just sort of awkwardly blurted out as I accidentally make eye contact, is it fair to 100% time infer from that action that I have a sexual motive? Is all street level communication a tool of the patriarchy? Incidently I've had people of both sexes, perfect strangers encourage me to smile, I'm pretty sure the nice lady at the grocery store just wanted to brighten my day, I really should have told her it was rude to communicate with strangers any context.

 easysauce wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:

 easysauce wrote:

Even the guy who "walked beside her *silently* for two minutes" is "harassment" apparently... because you cannot walk alongside people.

She clearly was walking past him in the video and he greeted her and then sped up to stay alongside and stay close. It's just weird, he was too close on a mostly empty pavement. I only walk that close to someone I'm actually walking with, he wasn't walking the same way by happenstance. There's no point in being coy, he's clearly a creep and it would spook a lot of women to have someone do that if they were on their own because of the risk of assault and robbery.

yes we should arrest all people for being creepy and doing things you wouldnt do...

same could be said for wargamers/MTG ect "omg how dare that creepy smelly guy come up to me and dare to talk to me then walk within a foot of me"

Don't pack this thread with straw men. No one said that they should be arrested. The point is that pursuing women on the street, cat calling and getting into their personal space makes them feel harassed and is downright rude or scary, depending on the circumstances. The men should cut it out.

To complicate things further, I live in an area where its actually a bit rude not to pass a little greeting, nod, or smile to people when they walk by, and telling someone they look nice is still a welcome compliment.

(Not cat calling, mind you...I hope I'm understood here).

Glad I don't live in New York City!

This really seems like an issue about how the people were raised. If you were raised to respect others or treat them as you'd want to be treated, then it shouldn't happen.

 xXWeaponPrimeXx wrote:
This really seems like an issue about how the people were raised. If you were raised to respect others or treat them as you'd want to be treated, then it shouldn't happen.

I agree, but can we take not just the people but the place into account? Is it fair to say that in lower income areas, hanging out on the stoop or the corner is more common and as such you've got a larger population of individuals who aren't commuting in either direction but hanging out in the open air in front of their home or at the corner. If she had shot 10 hours of walking through suburban neighborhoods, are we assuming there's no catcalls because wealthy people are better or because, you know, the front porch is like 30 feet from the sidewalk and even if individuals were commenting, you'd never hear them. If you grow up in a less then affluent neighborhood in say baltimore or chicago and "this sort of thing" is more common, is this just 100% wrong in any and all contexts or is there some room for racial/cultural sensitivity.


My other problem with this is it's not scientific, you can edit 10 hours of footage to support quite a few narratives.



Here's a thought experiment for ya, 10 hours of walking and we didn't see any homeless people ask her for money, imagine the implications of including that. While certainly not cat calling, just as fair to assume some could consider it a form of harassment.


Harassment is a bit loaded because it's subjective:

"Harassment (/həˈræsmənt/ or /ˈhærəsmənt/) covers a wide range of behaviours of an offensive nature. It is commonly understood as behaviour intended to disturb or upset, and it is characteristically repetitive. In the legal sense, it is intentional behaviour which is found threatening or disturbing."

Positive intentions can still have negative outcomes. Repetition here comes from the context of the video itself, not really the same people day in day out bothering her. The guy following her was pretty messed up.

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 easysauce wrote:

I mean, saying to someone "you are beautiful" isnt exactly harassment... neither is "hi how are you doing" "have a good day" "how are you doing?" yet these were all included as "harassment" cat calls in the video.... thats a pretty damn low bar to label things as "harassment" especially in a society where the guy is *expected* to initiate social contact with women he wants a relationship with.


Even the guy who "walked beside her *silently* for two minutes" is "harassment" apparently... because you cannot walk alongside people.


so, say "hi" to a woman, congratulations, you are a harassing sexual predator!

If I was wearing tight pants in new york for 10 hours, I bet I would get some people saying things to me too.

10 hours, one of the most dense population centers, she obviously edited the video to cut out the boring bits, and the most exciting "cat calls" are basically "hello beautiful."

Because, a man waling in new york for ten hours, wont have anyone approach him right?
how about 3 hours?






so here is the solution:

NO ONE TALK TO ANYONE NEW! EVER!!!


... actually thats already my go to solution for NYC

Actually the one walking beside her is the one I would have gotten aggressive with. That looked like a setup to a mugging.

That guy was very creepy.



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Bishop F Gantry wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Ok, as a Dad/husband, saw this and thought - 1. jeez thats crazy; 2. yes this reinforces every opinion I have about NY.

The video depicts a woman walking in NY for 10 hours and being constantly verbally harassed and catacalled.

http://www.npr.org/2014/11/01/360494480/woman-in-street-harassment-video-i-do-not-feel-safe-right-now

The now-viral YouTube video "10 hours of Walking in NYC as a Woman" has attracted more than 27 million views, sparked conversations about street harassment, inspired a parody, and provoked controversy about depictions of race all in less than the span of a week.
Another consequence: Actress Shoshana B. Roberts, the woman at the center of the video, has received violent threats.
"I do not feel safe right now," she tells NPR's Arun Rath.
"I'm alerting the police as to which jurisdiction I'm in, so my local precinct knows," says Roberts. "So hopefully it can be prevented if somebody does attempt something."
But Roberts says she doesn't regret participating in the project, a PSA for the non-profit anti-street harassment organization Hollaback!, because it has raised the issue with a wide audience.
Initially, Roberts says she found out about the project from an ad on Craigslist posted by the video's director, Rob Bliss, looking for an actress for the project. Roberts says she frequently encounters street harassment and catcalls, and she has personally experienced sexual assault. She was fed up, Roberts says, and the ad struck a chord.
"I saw these key words — 'raising awareness,' 'street harassment,' 'we have to do something about it' — and I felt the need to step in," she says.
"And I was like, 'I can keep my composure. I can do this,' " she says. " 'I have acting training. I have martial arts experience since I was 9. Should I go for the kneecaps or the sternum if anybody tries anything beyond?' Because it escalates so quickly."

So if you wanted to help tap that down, other the prudent use of a flamethrower, what could you do?

I would take this more serious if it didn't constitute a friendly good day as harassment...

What about all the rest of it?

Don't you think that using the one "good day" as an excuse to ignore everything else makes you look like a creepy harassment apologist and a victim blamer?

No since the implications of good day being thrown into the same category as crude advances as harassment dilutes the point of the video to nothingness, consider for one moment the implications of compliments or greetings being actual harassment and the effect it would have, let that thought sink in for a moment...

Its not that I like to ignore everything else its just that the alternative the video proposes is actually worse.

We're diluting the meaning of "harassment" to the point where it's losing its meaning completely.

 Ouze wrote:
That, and this being the Dakka OT, I feel pretty good about being able to predict pretty much who is going to post in this thread and what they are going to say.

Do you find that that giant chip on your shoulder ever makes it hurt?

I do have some neckstrain tonight. I thought it was just the height of my chair, but now I'm wondering.

Eyes rolled so fast the momentum gave you whiplash?

Didn't this harassment video end up being a fake or a setup? Don't have it on me, but I thought the whole thing was set up to be like that.

 jreilly89 wrote:
Didn't this harassment video end up being a fake or a setup? Don't have it on me, but I thought the whole thing was set up to be like that.

I think throwing that out there without making any effort to source it at all is pretty weak sauce.

five seconds of Google taught me the only "fake hollaback" controversy is that white guys were edited out of the video.

I have two thoughts on the matter at hand:

1. Unfortunately, people can be jerks.
2. Don't be a jerk.

Yeah, that's it pretty succinctly, feeder. Be a gentleman, no need to be crass!

The one that got me was "Have a nice evening." Or something to that effect. How terrible.

When a girl goes for a walk they should use my patented weed.. oops male mace sprayer.
See here a test run.

 Ouze wrote:
I do have some neckstrain tonight. I thought it was just the height of my chair, but now I'm wondering.

There's a high horse and a soapbox comment there somewhere, but I'm too tired to think of it.

feeder wrote:
I have two thoughts on the matter at hand:

1. Unfortunately, people can be jerks.
2. Don't be a jerk.

I thought it was:

1. Never say hello to anyone ever.
2. Even if you obey rule one, you're still a misogynist.

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
See here a test run.

Spoiler:

Good God! It's turning the grass to sand!

 jreilly89 wrote:
Didn't this harassment video end up being a fake or a setup? Don't have it on me, but I thought the whole thing was set up to be like that.

I haven't watched the video because I don't much care, but supposedly all white guys, except one or two, were edited out.