Kings of War Fantasy Battle Game - 2nd Edition by Mantic Games Kickstarter (Live and funded)

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**BobtheInquisitor**

Is that the lipless dragon posted earlier?

**streetsamurai**

I'm usually not a huge fan of mantic mini, but I thnk this dragon is gorgeous.

Eager to see how the HIPS salamder will turns out. Hopefully, they manage to get back to the same quality of their undead line.

**angelofvengeance**

GrimDork wrote:
^Thanks for re-posting that. I still want bigger wings but that makes me feel better about the shape of the body overall and the neck especially.

I'll be using my Heresy Dragon lol.

**Azazelx**

DaveC wrote:
The full dragon render from the open day

Huge feet, squashed head, small wings, short neck, tail so fat that it looks stumpy. Yep, that's Mantic and their 2nd-tier sculptors. Looks like I'll just be in this for the rules.

And that thing captioned as an Ogre before. Is it an ogre or a troll? Either way, it's shitful. Again.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

carlos13th wrote:
The recent renders and the salamander concept really don't appeal to me at all. I would have considered an abyssal army in the future but I doubt that is going to happen now.

I've got lots of GW Daemons. I think I'm covered. And if I need more, there's plenty more GW and Reaper D(a)emons out there if Mantic keeps coming up short.

**adamsouza**

Update #25 Nov 29 2014

Call of the Wild

You’ve done it, you’ve smashed aside our latest stretch goal: the Salamanders!

Epic work!

So, with the Salamander funded, we will now sculpt, tool and produce them in hard plastic. You can get a set of 20 figures with options for hand weapons and shields or great weapons for $15.

The Salamanders are a new unit choice for the Forces of the Abyss, who can field them as heavy infantry. They also form the foundation of the new Forces of Nature army list which, as a neutral faction, means they can also be fielded by any other good, neutral or evil army as per the ally rules - so there's no excuse not to add some Salamanders on to your pledge.

The Salamanders will be added alongside the Forest Shamblers into a Forces of Nature Starter ($50) and Forces of Nature Mega-Starter Army ($100). These will get filled up between now and the end.

The Starter Army ($50) contents begins at:

- 20 Salamanders (which can be armed with hand weapon and shields or two handed weapons)

- 3 Forest Shamblers

- ?????????????????

The Mega-Starter Army ($100) begins at:

- ?????????????????

- 40 Salamanders (which can be armed with hand weapon and shields or two handed weapons)

- 6 Forest Shamblers

- ?????????????????

- ?????????????????

If you’re super confident of beating our next goals, you could go ahead and pledge for an additional army now - remember you don’t make your choices on armies until after the campaign has finished, which gives us plenty of time to get them funded. And if we don’t break them all, you can always choose something else ☺

NEW! BONUS $285,000 – Forces of Nature Druid
Druids command the very power of nature itself, drawing power from the elements around them. Unlike the raw destructive power of magic, the elemental energy Druids draw on is far subtler, able to be used to either heal and create or to visit precise but deadly ruin on those who would stand against them. Though fey and otherworldy in appearance, they are as deadly as any battle wizard.

When we hit this stretch goal, we will produce the Druid hero for the Forces of Nature army. This metal miniature will come with alternate components to build it in different variants.

We need your help in choosing a direction for the Druid – do you like a) a Druid based on the more wild woman look?

Or b) a Druid based on a more subtler look?

The concept art above is for illustrative purposes only and is of the Living Legend Ceris figure, a Kickstarter reward for our Eternal Warrior backer from the original Kings of War Kickstarter. Chris pledged to have himself, his wife and his two dogs sculpted and produced into miniatures for the Forces of Nature.

Let us know what route you would like us to go down in the comments.

Once this stretch goal is broken, we will make the Druid available to add-on for $8. We will also include one in the Forces of Nature Mega-Starter Army ($100) which we will continue to fill up as we knock over new stretch goals.

This means that the contents of the Forces of Nature Mega-Starter army ($100) will be:

- Druid with alternate components

- 40 Salamander armed with hand weapon and shield or two handed weapons

- 6 Salamanders

- ?????????????????

- ?????????????????

And then?

WORK IN PROGRESS ART

WORK IN PROGRESS ART

Let us know what you think in the comments!

After we have funded this, we’ll be looking at fleshing out the Forces of Nature Starter/Mega-Starter army sets as well as continuing to produce miniatures that fill in the gaps in existing ranges. We know you Abyssal Dwarf fans are keen for something and we’ll be delivering on that before the end of the final day!

Until next time!

**MangoMadness**

The 2nd druid looks like it came right out of original D&D and not in a good way.

Why do they have to do models with excessive crap on them? like the horns coming out of his shirt, dont they poke him in the eye?

**Fenriswulf**

They're obviously magical antlers, that pivot and move as his head moves, to ensure he never suffers a poke in the eye.

They still block his field of vision though. That's the price you pay for fashion!

**NTRabbit**

Azazelx wrote:

Huge feet, squashed head, small wings, short neck, tail so fat that it looks stumpy. Yep, that's Mantic and their 2nd-tier sculptors. Looks like I'll just be in this for the rules.

And that thing captioned as an Ogre before. Is it an ogre or a troll? Either way, it's shitful. Again.

Before you shatter my windows, try looking at it again without a bad angle photograph of a computer screen

https://d2pq0u4uni88oo.cloudfront.net/assets/002/967/708/324be37bb457c7437e0a3bd589454496_h264_high.mp4

Also the thing captioned as an Ogre is actually a Troll from "The Warlord of Galahir" expansion for DS

**Azazelx**

Thank you for that link. I'll now upgrade my opinion of that Dragon to "okay" from shitful. It's still got pretty much all the issues I listed, just not as badly (except the feet).

And bad troll model is still bad.

**Barzam**

Salamanders have been unlocked, eh? Looks like there's going to be some Highlordin' going on around here.

**AlexHolker**

And then?

WORK IN PROGRESS ART

WORK IN PROGRESS ART

Let us know what you think in the comments!

When I saw this picture, I said "Oh, feth you!"

Am I the only one who has been asking for Atlanteans, or just the first? Is there someone else who asked for Atlanteans who doesn't hate the ugly, skinny Mantic elves?

**NTRabbit**

Azazelx wrote:
Thank you for that link. I'll now upgrade my opinion of that Dragon to "okay" from shitful. It's still got pretty much all the issues I listed, just not as badly (except the feet).

To me it looks like they've simply gone for a different type of Dragon than is usually seen. Most of the Reaper Bones dragons were long necks and long tails high fantasy trope, the Tyrant looks like Mantic have gone more towards the European Wyrm. It actually bears a passing resemblance - especially the feet - to the Dragon on the Welsh national flag. Short neck, large head, big feet, has wings but looks like it spends most of its time on the ground. Tail is the major difference.

**AlexHolker**

A short neck is fine, but it should be a broad neck, broad head and broad jaws. It should look like a monster that will rip you in half and swallow the chunks whole, not one that will slowly nibble you to death.

**BobtheInquisitor**

AlexHolker wrote:
A short neck is fine, but it should be a broad neck, broad head and broad jaws. It should look like a monster that will rip you in half and swallow the chunks whole, not one that will slowly nibble you to death.

I tend to be pretty forgiving towards dragons, so I don't mind this one looking a bit different, but I really wish whoever sculpted for Mantic would ~~study anatomy~~ at least watch the damn Discovery Channel. Predators with shorter necks tned to have short necks to support big heads and big jaws for massive bite damage--instant kills--like a tiger or a T-Rex. Predators with longer necks tend to eat smaller prey and/or kill larger prey via some method other than alpha strike, like plesiosaurs or even wolves (compared to big cats). So, a little man-eating dragon should have a big head and short neck. A bigger man-eating dragon should have a long neck so he can get at all the fleeing peasants without flopping his body all over the place.

Now, the head and neck don't really bother me since that's how dragons are often portrayed, and who knows what this one eats. I can even get past the muzzle transitioning directly into the gums. What bothers me are the broad, anthropomorphic shoulders feeding into the quadruped's lower quarters at a back-breaking 90 degree angle. Not quite a deal breaker, but jeez. Almost.

Breaking the rules is fine, so long as the artist understands what they are in the first place to avoid making some creature that looks silly. (Trolls, etc.)

Automatically Appended Next Post:
How to Draw Animals, by Jack Hamm is an hour read that could make a tremendous difference for Mantic. It only covers mammal anatomy, but it's a good start and a good basis to start reading elsewhere. There are approximately 1000 Dinosaur books that cover how dino legs work and discuss predatory strategies. Most fantasy artists tend to have some grounding in real life anatomy before they paint their dragons, so why not sculptors?

And no, I'm not saying I could sculpt a better dragon. But I could certainly give the sculptor some better feedback.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
That said....I'll probably still buy it.

Can't say no to plasty draccys. :(

**Joyboozer**

God really? I always saw the lion cover of that Jack Hamm book and thought the title was irony!

**AlexHolker**

BobtheInquisitor wrote:
What bothers me are the broad, anthropomorphic shoulders feeding into the quadruped's lower quarters at a back-breaking 90 degree angle.

Yeah, that part is bad too. this is still my favourite picture of a dragon with anthropomorphic forelimbs that work. The way the entire torso pivots upwards and the narrow shoulders reminds me of the brachiosaurus, and it looks much better than Mantic's take, which feels more like a two legged dragon-centaur than a dragon.

**BobtheInquisitor**

Joyboozer wrote:
God really? I always saw the lion cover of that Jack Hamm book and thought the title was irony!

Have you read it? It discusses animal anatomy and proportions, and gives an aspiring artist an idea of what to look for in animal anatomy. Are you saying the lion on the cover looks as bad as the Mantic cat-horses?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Alex, who painted that? I like it.

**AlexHolker**

BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Alex, who painted that? I like it.

It's from one of Wizards of the Coast's books, and it's by Eva Widermann. She has a website here.

**NTRabbit**

Too much of a high fantasy long neck thing for my taste, and there's plenty of those around already. I much prefer the short neck and stocky ground dragon Mantic have gone with, albeit I agree it needs a wider head.

**BobtheInquisitor**

AlexHolker wrote:
BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Alex, who painted that? I like it.

It's from one of Wizards of the Coast's books, and it's by Eva Widermann. She has a website here.

Okay, so I put that book on my wishlist, but I noticed a disturbing lack of Todd Lockwood. How can there be a modern D&D dragon art book that doesn't include him? What terrible transgression is he guilty of?

How much would Mantic need to pay Eva for some design sketches?

PS: That druid guy a page back has one arm longer than the other. Look at where his right elbow is. Holy cow! He must have started out as a Basilean!

**AlexHolker**

BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Okay, so I put that book on my wishlist, but I noticed a disturbing lack of Todd Lockwood. How can there be a modern D&D dragon art book that doesn't include him? What terrible transgression is he guilty of?

It's not an artbook, it's one of the old D&D 3.5 rulebooks.

**BobtheInquisitor**

AlexHolker wrote:
BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Okay, so I put that book on my wishlist, but I noticed a disturbing lack of Todd Lockwood. How can there be a modern D&D dragon art book that doesn't include him? What terrible transgression is he guilty of?

It's not an artbook, it's one of the old D&D 3.5 rulebooks.

...And removed.

Has there been any word yet on who is doing the art for the Mantic Dungeon Quest Fighting Fantasy novels?

**Pacific**

I really like the sound of the Forces of Nature army.. has there been any more info released about them, other than the concept drawings shown above?

And, am I remembering it incorrectly that they were meant to be part of the 'human' faction initially?

**NTRabbit**

Pacific wrote:
I really like the sound of the Forces of Nature army.. has there been any more info released about them, other than the concept drawings shown above?

And, am I remembering it incorrectly that they were meant to be part of the 'human' faction initially?

Other than the v1 army list, no

**Daedleh**

There's half a page of background in the Basilean Legacy, but nothing extensive.

**Joyboozer**

BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Joyboozer wrote:
God really? I always saw the lion cover of that Jack Hamm book and thought the title was irony!

Have you read it? It discusses animal anatomy and proportions, and gives an aspiring artist an idea of what to look for in animal anatomy. Are you saying the lion on the cover looks as bad as the Mantic cat-horses?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Alex, who painted that? I like it.

Yeah, read it, just always thought it was funny the lion on the cover looks line it's standing straight up. And waving.

**lord_blackfang**

Why does the dragon look like it has Batman-style sculpted chest/abs armour?

**AlexHolker**

lord_blackfang wrote:
Why does the dragon look like it has Batman-style sculpted chest/abs armour?

Because there is nobody at Mantic who looks at such things and says "Hold on, that's not right!"

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

or since it's a WIP perhaps the artist is going to lay a 'skin' over it after using muscle blocks to build up the anatomy

(probably not though)

**TheAuldGrump**

Hmmm, liking the rules sheet.

The two new spell effects added to Zap! make me wonder if the variants in Basilean Legacy will also be in the main book.

The Auld Grump