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 Redbad wrote:
Some of these posts are a little Facetious.

I love it.

The reality of the issue is:

1.Mof is happy with what he is getting.

2.The works speak for themselves.

3. Mof might be a white knight

4. BTP is ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY PERCENT WATCHING THIS THREAD

5. We need to get the word out to the rest of the gaming community about BTP

6. We need to lay off Mof, so he keeps posting.


Thanks
Austin

+100

 Casey's Law wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:

 Casey's Law wrote:
That looks pretty poor to my eye but the photographs are horrendously unprofessional so it's hard to actually see anything worth seeing. I'm glad you are happy with it though even if I wouldn't be. Wouldn't be very nice if you were disappointed after paying all that money.

There's way too much flash to see the figures properly there. What has level 3 cost him per figure for this?

This has still not been addressed and is, as far as I'm concerned, the only point of interest until it's rectified. These pictures are so bad that there really is no clear idea of what the miniatures look like. As someone else said, try painting even a simple coat of paint in a bad light and then see how it looks under the right lighting. These miniatures could easily be better or worse than I can currently tell but we won't know until we have pictures that show them realistically. All these photographs show is that they have begun to paint your miniatures in vaguely similar colours to those requested.

Probably about 4 years or so ago I considered using BTP for a project. Via email I asked for pictures showing the levels, since the ones on the web at the time were really bad (poor lighting, blurred, I couldn't tell the difference between a level 3 and a level 6 from the pictures). They apologized for the poor pictures, "we got a new camera and were still learning to use it lol" and then did email me pictures just as good as the ones on the web.


I never used them for a commission as a result.

It looks like they may still be learning to use that camera, LoL....

 CptJake wrote:

 Haight wrote:

My favorite part of the techmarine is how the bolter is all "nurgly" in the same way that my seven year old uses paper mache. Oh that and the minimalism of detail on the entirety of the rest of the mini, really draws you back to the visceral "not a toddler using paper mache" look they were going for.

I think the OP did the green stuff conversion work, not BTP...

I believe he did as well, which is where the key minimalism of the entirety of the paint job everywhere else, really shines a spot light on the high quality GS work.

I mean, just look at the leg bereft of blending, highlights, or any detail - the smooth flat pale green acts as a visual funnel working ones eye right back to the GS conversion, as if the subtle understatement of the leg paint job is "nothing to see here, keep moving up".


Blue Table Painting, a miniature painting service ; you'll pay for what you get when you use them.

I thought the picture of the marine was a joke. Seriously. The cypher model is ok, barring the flat cloak, but then if that was what was requested, who am I to argue?
However, if I paid a 'professional' and they sent me that marine, I'd be forced to melt it down, sharpen the resulting plastic blob, and ram it in the eye of the 'painter' who had the cheek to charge for it.

 Haight wrote:
OH ! Techsoldat.... you should post their investment opportunity. Readers of this thread might like to see their opportunity to invest in Blue Table Painting, a miniature painting service. Well.... invest is a bit of a strong word. Invest suggests you'll get "equity" or "shares" or "ownership", but for 120k a year, you can get a shirt. And a cap! And 5 days in Spanish Fork Utah.


Post the link Tech, it would be selfish of you and I to keep this to ourselves!

Oh, do you mean this one?

http://www.patreon.com/btp

This is not an investment opportunity in the classical sense, in that you own no part of the commercial miniature painting service in exchange for giving them your money.

But this is an opportunity to invest in culture. What we are beginning to see emerge in Spanish Fork, Utah is a new style of painting called table bleue les fauves. There's a very detailed description of the characteristics of this style provided in another thread:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/1590/618082.page#7429362

Basically, what Blue Table Painting is offering is the opportunity to become a patron of this style of painting. By investing in it, you are ensuring their team has the opportunity to go to conventions / tournaments, create videos explaining how they did it, and branch out into different kinds of media. In exchange, you can receive rewards up to and including selections from their new clothing line. At the $10,000 level, you also receive time with the visionary behind this style of painting (who is a mentor) and the chance to spend 5 days at Spanish Fort, Utah being where it all happens.

This should be especially interesting to anyone who is interested in the style of painting evidenced in the pictures in this thread. This new style shuns many of the conventions of traditional representational techniques to explore new ideas about the way we perceive models and the relationship between fantasy and reality. Like M0ff3l talks about, table bleue les fauves is all about getting exactly what you asked for and not what some self-proclaimed 'mastar pheintar' confines you to. The process is centered on communication with a group of artists who each bring their individual creative talents to a piece, sometimes under severe time constraints, and constantly verify their approach through short emails and photos taken at odd angles featuring illumination from irregular perspectives. Unlike older, discredited approaches that recycle the same old basecoat / shade / highlight / extreme highlight methods people have fixated on for decades, this process makes the person purchasing the service a witness to the actions of a team of miniature painters while they work through pieces in a fashion that can change from army to army.

I know of no other miniature painting service with the kind of exciting, cutting edge production techniques used by Blue Table Painting or the kinds of results people are paying for with table bleue les fauves. Becoming a Patreon is a unique opportunity to directly support the commercial entity housing the artists behind this style and to show you care about advancing the culture of miniature wargaming past the strict boundaries set up by the larger, Nottingham-based commercial entity housing it's own artists that has been DOMINATING the way the community thinks about quality for DECADES with their ridiculous publications and grimly representational styles.

You can help advance awareness of table bleue les fauves in other ways:

1) Share information about table bleue les fauves on other websites.

2) Demonstrate examples of this new style on other websites. The photos in this thread and the videos on YouTube's Blue Table Painting channel are perfect examples to share.

3) Point links back to this thread (and that other thread) so people can join in the discussion.

4) Mention 'Blue Table Painting' and the fact they are a 'miniature painting service' everywhere you share. They deserve credit.

Thank you M0ff3l for keeping this thread open despite all the harassment. Thank you Matt from Miniwargaming for endorsing Blue Table Painting's miniature painting service. Thank you Blue Table Painting for fearlessly innovating around new art styles and for all the work you do to feed and nurture the community. I am looking forward to seeing your wondrous creations and getting to spend time with your creative artists (especially Jenienne the instructions lady) at the next Valhalla.

Whoa, for only another $1970 every single month we can get high quality photography! What a deal!

Oh, life size cardboard cut out and a lock of Shawn's hair for just $200 out of my own pocket each month plus bonus weekly, skype brainwashing sessions. Shut up and take my money!

 CptJake wrote:

 Haight wrote:

My favorite part of the techmarine is how the bolter is all "nurgly" in the same way that my seven year old uses paper mache. Oh that and the minimalism of detail on the entirety of the rest of the mini, really draws you back to the visceral "not a toddler using paper mache" look they were going for.

I think the OP did the green stuff conversion work, not BTP...

You are right, I think he said it was a DV DA marine and that it was his first time using GS. If that is true I'd give him credit for at least trying.

When I say the works speak for themselves, I'm not defending Blue Table... The poor lighting just further validates that they really do SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES. As I've said before, I could paint a marine like that.. and I'm an amateur painter.

If we can lay off Mof for a bit, this thread might keep going, we'll get more pics, and then these types of conversations can happen. Wait until we get the end product, then hammer.

Thanks
Austin

For most of the models, table top standard would be enough

Colours are blocked in, models are based. That's table top standard by my money. Good of BTP to do some basic highlighting and shading for tabletop standard too.

I think a lot of the small time commission painters posting in this thread need to take a step back and realise that not all commission jobs are meant to be top of the line standard. Sometimes a customer is just paying for something that looks good from 3 foot away. You're causing yourselves unnecessary stress.

My only criticism of BTP is they would better market themselves if they spent half an hour on the internet looking at how to take better pictures. Their camera is too often focusing on background textures instead of the model they try to picture.

Keep us posted MoF.

Thanks to techsoldaten I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.

A good table top standard should include at least one pass of shading and at least one pass of highlighting. Blocked in base coat is just that-- basecoated.

 frozenwastes wrote:
Thanks to techsoldaten I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.

These threads are getting just a little bit whacky now.

A good table top standard should include at least one pass of shading and at least one pass of highlighting. Blocked in base coat is just that-- basecoated.

"Table top standard" isn't a terribly useful term as it means different things to different people. I've always just interpreted it to mean "what I can paint in a reasonable time such that I will actually be able to produce an entire army", which is entirely dependant on your skill and patience. I fully expect a high end commission service to have a far higher "table top standard" to something like blue table painting which is attempting to be the mcdonalds of miniature painting services.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 frozenwastes wrote:
Thanks to techsoldaten I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.

These threads are getting just a little bit whacky now.

A good table top standard should include at least one pass of shading and at least one pass of highlighting. Blocked in base coat is just that-- basecoated.

"Table top standard" isn't a terribly useful term as it means different things to different people. I've always just interpreted it to mean "what I can paint in a reasonable time such that I will actually be able to produce an entire army", which is entirely dependant on your skill and patience. I fully expect a high end commission service to have a far higher "table top standard" to something like blue table painting which is attempting to be the mcdonalds of miniature painting services.

Is Shawn the scary clown then?

 frozenwastes wrote:
Thanks to techsoldaten I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.

A good table top standard should include at least one pass of shading and at least one pass of highlighting. Blocked in base coat is just that-- basecoated.

Yea, for clarity, to me basic tabletop standard is base colours down. Good (your word) table top standard is simple highlighting and shading too.

AllSeeingSkink is probably right there is no baseline for what table top standard means. For context I've taken my definitions from publications GW would put out when I was getting started. These pretty much said block in the colours of your basic troops, go a little more detailed on characters and your ready to play. They then recommended to go back and adding a wash, some dry brushing or some edges later.

Perhaps I am outdated in my definitions and a higher minimum standard is now expected. I know in the 'paint your first space marine for free' classes they go into shading/highlighting and on the GW videos they go deeper than just how to move brush from the pot onto the mini.

 Reality-Torrent wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 frozenwastes wrote:
Thanks to techsoldaten I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.

These threads are getting just a little bit whacky now.

A good table top standard should include at least one pass of shading and at least one pass of highlighting. Blocked in base coat is just that-- basecoated.

"Table top standard" isn't a terribly useful term as it means different things to different people. I've always just interpreted it to mean "what I can paint in a reasonable time such that I will actually be able to produce an entire army", which is entirely dependant on your skill and patience. I fully expect a high end commission service to have a far higher "table top standard" to something like blue table painting which is attempting to be the mcdonalds of miniature painting services.

Is Shawn the scary clown then?

Maybe my analogy has more similarities than I originally intended

Tabletop standard to me is at least a wash on top to give some shading. Something that can at most take a minute or two per model if you need to wash a couple of different colours. Time you budget and plan for when giving quotes for commissions.

nareik wrote:
Perhaps I am outdated in my definitions and a higher minimum standard is now expected. I know in the 'paint your first space marine for free' classes they go into shading/highlighting and on the GW videos they go deeper than just how to move brush from the pot onto the mini.

My thinking is that it can't really be to a standard if it's the minimum possible work to cover all areas of the model with paint*. Whether it's a simple wash or a single pass of highlighting, I'd settle for any improvement over basecoating to get into table top standard.

* To keep on the topic of BTP

 frozenwastes wrote:

nareik wrote:
Perhaps I am outdated in my definitions and a higher minimum standard is now expected. I know in the 'paint your first space marine for free' classes they go into shading/highlighting and on the GW videos they go deeper than just how to move brush from the pot onto the mini.

My thinking is that it can't really be to a standard if it's the minimum possible work to cover all areas of the model with paint*. Whether it's a simple wash or a single pass of highlighting, I'd settle for any improvement over basecoating to get into table top standard.

* To keep on the topic of BTP

Ah, perhaps our differences is due to differences in standards our opponents hold?

I'm happy to play against models with a few different colours blocked in because it's better than unprimed legs stuck to bases*. Plus, base coating is more complicated than just covering a model in paint. It does take effort to keep the 'paint within the lines', especially for people with less experience in the hobby or simply less physical ability. I also prefer neatly blocked to roughly blobbed, messily drybrushed and badly washed minis.

*In fairness to my opponent he was restarting the hobby after a complete clear out and just wanted to see how the game worked these days.

For me 'Tabletop Quality is:
Cleaned
Primed
Basecoated
Wash
Drybrush
Some detail work (the eagles on space marines, eyes, teeth)
Basing (not detailed, but at least sand/flock/ or gravel)

Not top end, careful shading, but a simple wash and highlight.

The BTP work shown in this post.... Is not something that I would paint, nor is it something that I would buy, but it more or less qualifies for tabletop.

If the painter were a beginner then I would say encouraging words when it showed up on the table.

From an experienced player... I wouldn't have much to say.

The Auld Grump

nareik wrote:

 frozenwastes wrote:

nareik wrote:
Perhaps I am outdated in my definitions and a higher minimum standard is now expected. I know in the 'paint your first space marine for free' classes they go into shading/highlighting and on the GW videos they go deeper than just how to move brush from the pot onto the mini.

My thinking is that it can't really be to a standard if it's the minimum possible work to cover all areas of the model with paint*. Whether it's a simple wash or a single pass of highlighting, I'd settle for any improvement over basecoating to get into table top standard.

* To keep on the topic of BTP

Ah, perhaps our differences is due to differences in standards our opponents hold?

I'm happy to play against models with a few different colours blocked in because it's better than unprimed legs stuck to bases*. Plus, base coating is more complicated than just covering a model in paint. It does take effort to keep the 'paint within the lines', especially for people with less experience in the hobby or simply less physical ability. I also prefer neatly blocked to roughly blobbed, messily drybrushed and badly washed minis.

*In fairness to my opponent he was restarting the hobby after a complete clear out and just wanted to see how the game worked these days.

Base coating is super simple if it is a space marine, even more so if it a solid color one like nurgle marines. So it kinda is just painting a mini in once color.

 SilverMK2 wrote:
Tabletop standard to me is at least a wash on top to give some shading. Something that can at most take a minute or two per model if you need to wash a couple of different colours. Time you budget and plan for when giving quotes for commissions.

Depends on the model. If you're going for a "gritty" look on models that have a decent amount of surface detail then washing the entire model devlan mud can be a worthwhile step on the road to "table top quality". If the models don't have a lot of surface details or you are going for a bright contrasting scheme that doesn't suit a single wash colour doing a wash might not be a good use of time to someone just trying to get models on the table to play with.

Based on my experience of what people actually play with, "table top quality" typically seems to lie somewhere between "primed" and "roughly painted block colours with no shading/highlighting"

nareik wrote:

My only criticism of BTP is they would better market themselves if they spent half an hour on the internet looking at how to take better pictures. Their camera is too often focusing on background textures instead of the model they try to picture.

It seems that they had this type of photos for as long as they have been in business. The quality of their photos might be intentional to keep expectations vague.

Mario wrote:

nareik wrote:

My only criticism of BTP is they would better market themselves if they spent half an hour on the internet looking at how to take better pictures. Their camera is too often focusing on background textures instead of the model they try to picture.

It seems that they had this type of photos for as long as they have been in business. The quality of their photos might be intentional to keep expectations vague.

Yep! you'd think a company that works in visual arts, who appear to be very proud of their work, would after a decade of successful business have re-invested some money back into the company for buying and setting up a decent photographic and video studio to show off what awesome work they do, wouldn't you? That, in its self, for me raises a big red magic banner of "we are trying to hide the actual quality of our work"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqBotowPfC4

Pictures will follow according to BTP.

It looks like a low to middle end table top paint job, honestly I wouldn't have paid for it but to each his own I guess.

A few things I found terrible with the video, even on 720p the camera quality was terrible, and shaun couldn't be bothered to let the camera focus most of the time. Second I would of rejected the rhinos solely based on that "free hand" where the lines aren't even straight.

 Ustrello wrote:
It looks like a low to middle end table top paint job, honestly I wouldn't have paid for it but to each his own I guess.

A few things I found terrible with the video, even on 720p the camera quality was terrible, and shaun couldn't be bothered to let the camera focus most of the time. Second I would of rejected the rhinos solely based on that "free hand" where the lines aren't even straight.

Will request them to remove the small fly freehand on the second rhino. The big one is alright, not great but alright. The small one I didnt request so Dunno why its on there

I really like that Cypher and Sorceror conversion. In general this was a nice job of making the DV set go that extra mile.

Also it looks like they literally just painted some pallid wych flesh onto cyphers face and called it a day.

I'm glad you are happy with your end product.

Thanks
Austin

 Ustrello wrote:
Also it looks like they literally just painted some pallid wych flesh onto cyphers face and called it a day.

No cypher has painted eyes/teeth and a stubble where his facial here would be.

 M0ff3l wrote:

 Ustrello wrote:
Also it looks like they literally just painted some pallid wych flesh onto cyphers face and called it a day.

No cypher has painted eyes/teeth and a stubble where his facial here would be.

Okay I can see the stubble, but no teeth or eyes, just black holes where the eyes are. Also unless Cypher is really an undercover Raven Guard traitor, his face should be more than an greyish white.