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The only faction I don't like is the Harvesters.

As for "Scale Games" fans well, they're no worse than any other group of hardcore fanatics.

Which doesn't make them any less annoying and unhelpful, of course!

As opposed to Artemis Black's 'helpful' and incessant posting.
Given his position I find his input and tone to be completely unprofessional. I may or may not support this KS but I will certainly not be supporting any of his endeavors, just like Mr. Chapterhouses obnoxious input in to other manufacturers threads completely put me off his product.

Glad to see it's funded, lookin forward to seeing what they can produce.

I'm guessing you missed the Do No Wrong Crowd in the KS Comments section last time around then?

Two... Whatevers don't make a right? I don't know. Just venting. I just wish people would understand that this reboot will have those with many concerns and questions that will be presented in a blunt manner. It's human nature after the last project was cancelled to react that way. It's going to dog them until production models are photographed next to a ruler. For every figure.

I'm glad it's funded and the spreadsheet breakdown is awesome. Actually tempts me towards the 600 mark.

Apparently anyone who has the slightest question in regards to scale are "scale idiots".

Gee that's a nice thing to be called.

fwiw, it looks like they've begun fulfillment of their other kickstarter just last week. I remember the pending fulfillment of that one being raised as a concern last time (that was quickly drowned out by the noisier scale concerns).

edit: linky https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/986826251/duel-fighters/posts/1041773

Maybe its just me but why have a game box with just two of the four factions? That is weird to me. Maybe I'm missing it but there isn't an add on for an entire faction?

 plastictrees wrote:
As opposed to Artemis Black's 'helpful' and incessant posting.
Given his position I find his input and tone to be completely unprofessional. I may or may not support this KS but I will certainly not be supporting any of his endeavors, just like Mr. Chapterhouses obnoxious input in to other manufacturers threads completely put me off his product.

Glad to see it's funded, lookin forward to seeing what they can produce.

*mwah* Love you too.

Ya know if you wanna PM me your details I can happily stop you sullying yourself by accidentally supporting one of my endeavours?

 Alpharius wrote:
The only faction I don't like is the Harvesters.

My only real issue is I believe they completely set up to market it wrong. I understand the pull behind having a base game but the issue is that it locks people into two factions starting out, unless they invest a lot more money. They should have a Core Box that contains rules, cards, counters, card terrain and/or anything else needed for the game (game mat maybe). Then they should let the Core Game Pledge get the Core Box choose their own 4 Heroes, 2 Combat Forces and 1 Booster. Then players who don't like Ares and/or Vengeance aren't stuck with them or if they want Ares and Sayx or Vengeance and Harvesters instead, they could do that. It also works out better for a couple of friends who want to go in together and split forces. With the way it is, it means anyone that wants to start another faction needs to drop another $100 on top of the already $100 they initially dropped. If they fix that.... then I think that would greatly improve their marketability.

Granted there are games that do two faction starters and are a great way for players to start Infinity: Ice Storm is a great example. However since all the miniature are fairly inexpensive, it makes it easier to drop into that game. It also is a bit bigger letting others sell and piece out parts. The same is with Dark Vengeance for WH40K. A lot of it can be parted out, there is a larger game base. A newer game trying to get off the ground though... makes it harder to do, unless you just throw a bunch of cheap miniatures that covers everything (Mantic) but we are dealing with resin (which I am happy for).

 Dark Severance wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
The only faction I don't like is the Harvesters.

My only real issue is I believe they completely set up to market it wrong. I understand the pull behind having a base game but the issue is that it locks people into two factions starting out, unless they invest a lot more money. They should have a Core Box that contains rules, cards, counters, card terrain and/or anything else needed for the game (game mat maybe). Then they should let the Core Game Pledge get the Core Box choose their own 4 Heroes, 2 Combat Forces and 1 Booster. Then players who don't like Ares and/or Vengeance aren't stuck with them or if they want Ares and Sayx or Vengeance and Harvesters instead, they could do that. It also works out better for a couple of friends who want to go in together and split forces. With the way it is, it means anyone that wants to start another faction needs to drop another $100 on top of the already $100 they initially dropped. If they fix that.... then I think that would greatly improve their marketability.

Granted there are games that do two faction starters and are a great way for players to start Infinity: Ice Storm is a great example. However since all the miniature are fairly inexpensive, it makes it easier to drop into that game. It also is a bit bigger letting others sell and piece out parts. The same is with Dark Vengeance for WH40K. A lot of it can be parted out, there is a larger game base. A newer game trying to get off the ground though... makes it harder to do, unless you just throw a bunch of cheap miniatures that covers everything (Mantic) but we are dealing with resin (which I am happy for).

*Waves hands in air*

That's me. I actually like the Sayx ALOT and dig the Harvesters but I am tight on case and I would rather not buy into factions I am not going to use. I may throw a dollar at this and see if the option

opens up but I just don't like the Ares (Vengeance I like a little but less than Sayx and the Harvesters).

 Artemis Black wrote:


*mwah* Love you too.

Do not toy with my emotions! Dakkanauts are a fractious people, quick to anger...and to love...

I agree that the restricted starter set is a bit of a mistake. Make it Ares and Riff at retail. Given that you're doing a custom box for it anyway why not make the contents mix and match? Not a complete free for all with swaps, but any 2 of the 4 factions.

ClockworkChaos wrote:
*Waves hands in air*

That's me. I actually like the Sayx ALOT and dig the Harvesters but I am tight on case and I would rather not buy into factions I am not going to use. I may throw a dollar at this and see if the option

opens up but I just don't like the Ares (Vengeance I like a little but less than Sayx and the Harvesters).

I'm more into Ares and Sayx but yeah I really like Sayx. I did give them the suggestion, hopefully they listen. I think not only for future expansion but just for the game to grow it would be a great benefit.

The sculpts do look good, and the Ares are more like Space Marines should have been cast compared to all human scale minis, that they also start off with the other large sized faction, their alien foes, also works as a different concept of large sized aliens. they also look like a good paint challenge

I'm glad it's doing well. I wish Scale Games were a tad more on the ball with the comments. Letting backers, however well informed speak on their behalf and then stating a question has been answered is technically correct, but perhaps not PR correct?

Yes it has now definitely made more money on the first day than last time around. As others have said I would still have preferred to just choose one force or two forces rather than having to go for the boxset, but I understand they trying to market them as a boxed game. I think it would work on the previous Kickstart as it was similar to what Mantic did where you could get just the boxset or all the races. But given that they decided to do it in resin the cost of the higher pledges are just a bit too extreme for most folks including myself :(

At least we have options to pick separate squads individually so I still need to decide whether I will bother with the game or just the miniatures I like.

This is an opinion on a miniature collector not a boardgamer to get you in the right frame of mind. Riptides has already asked in the comments about single mini purchase so no point asking again. RT got an answer. "For now we are not doing that, but we might introduce it in the future."

Now that the honeymoon period is over. It’s down to the brass tacks of what you are getting. After looking at the box set and what it contains I have come to the conclusion that roughly 70% percent of the box I don't really want. (maybe more considering the duplicates) The box set contains (items marked with an asterisk not wanted items)

4 heroes= Bitsie*Blaze*Fink Dradd, Sihlas Fenn
2 combat forces = 1x Ares * and 1x Riff
Cards, Counters *
Scenery *
Rulebook, ruler, dice. *

If it continues like that then I will probably back out before the end as I don’t need another board game that I need to sell on ebay. (board game with half the minis missing as well). As I’ve said before I don’t know if it’s the postage and packing admin nightmare if they brought in a collectors pledge. (Possibly so many different postage levels I imagine for each backer.) They have their reasons. Would be good if SG came right out and said no plans for a collectors pledge now but maybe it’s too soon we are, after all, only a day in. Have asked for clarification on Ritdes answer.

Why bother with collectors pledges?

Say a pledge of 8 heroes ( 8 x 15 = 120) was introduced. The I could swap my pledge (Assault trooper -= 100) to the new pledge . That is more money and less minis than on my current pledge. From a business point of view this makes pretty good sense. Less minis, less materials, more money. Now think of the combinations of collectors pledges you could have. 8 x heroes and 4 x booster packs (8x15 +4x35=260). That’s up at the battle squad level which if just 4 collectors buy in that’s a $1000 hike right there. Of course the numbers are total prices and not discounted ones you see normally in pledges.

For those that say “well don’t back it then”. Just because I don’t like my choice does not mean I hate the Figures/campaign, I am hoping a better choice becomes available. I want to be part of it but not if I am pushed into the board gamer direction. Of course scale games are under no obligations to make any changes and ignore what I would like to see happen. I make no illusions that I can change it.

Now it may just sound all a bit selfish as I'm out looking for something just for me. If you are mini collector/painter does this not appeal to you?


UPDATE: Fallen frontiers have confirmed Rtides answer relates to this campaign. Future=20days.

I'd really like to back this, but with Christmas so close, the funds are low. And with no lower level pledges just to get a handful of minis means a pass from me for now. Sticking in a $10 or $20 pledge level and I'd be all over this like a rash (especially if we were able to up our pledges post KS).

Update #4

Nov 15 2014

Up next... Jason Ramires!
Comment
3 likes
$80,000 – Jason Ramires [ADD-ON]

Jason is a very special case. Although he is just an artillery sergeant his words are taken into much consideration by his superiors on the battlefield, something uncommon in the Sayx army.

In several missions in which the plan was ruined within minutes of entering combat, Jason managed to keep his team alive showing great talent and a great ability to improvise. No wonder he ended up getting the nickname Jason "Plan B" Ramires.

He's a tough guy - we know this because he's smoking something.

Though that probably just means he's not that smart...

 Piston Honda wrote:
Apparently anyone who has the slightest question in regards to scale are "scale idiots".

Gee that's a nice thing to be called.

I hope Scale distance themselves from the weird little clique that basically formed themselves. Nothing harms a games growth more than the initial core fanbase being so unwelcoming to criticism, as all games will receive criticism and especially when first starting up as everyone would prefer it to be closer to what they want before it's too late.

I particularly like how they are immune to the fact that the 'scale idiots' were right all along about the first kickstarter.

I do notice that Scale are now going with the line that their figures work just fine with Infinity terrain, which is odd because Infinity figures are quite small and slender and generally the buildings made of it reflect that. You could easily use Infinity barriers and crates etc. and they'd just be smaller barriers and crates but then again you could say that for 'anything' generic. When people say 'scenery' they tend to include buildings and set pieces and 40mm hulking powered armour figures walking around a, for example, Micro Arts Infinity town are surely going to look like they are wandering around Legoland when the buildings are about 40mm per storey.



That guy at the top, even on the scenic base, is going to be a few mm shorter than the Sayx guy and a couple more shorter than Ares or Berserker etc. And 'way' less bulky. It's gonna look daft, which is one of the two reasons the scale stuff started last time so to say they just match this time around is begging for arguments.

So, is this actual resin, like proper 100% resin and not the restic c**p that mantic and privateer prees use? If it is actual resin I may try to get me and the lads in on it as I quite like the sayx and harvesters. Shame there not in the starter, can I get the equivalent of the box set with these two factions in instead?

overtyrant wrote:
So, is this actual resin, like proper 100% resin and not the restic c**p that mantic and privateer prees use? If it is actual resin I may try to get me and the lads in on it as I quite like the sayx and harvesters. Shame there not in the starter, can I get the equivalent of the box set with these two factions in instead?

They said it will be Polyurethane Resin, and I think two faction sets get you like 50 miniatures + 2 vehicles vs. the 33 miniatures from the box set. Of course it will cost more though.

overtyrant wrote:
So, is this actual resin, like proper 100% resin and not the restic c**p that mantic and privateer prees use? If it is actual resin I may try to get me and the lads in on it as I quite like the sayx and harvesters. Shame there not in the starter, can I get the equivalent of the box set with these two factions in instead?

Yes, proper resin But no, you can't do that, the box set is insanely cheap, everything else is twice the price or more, there's a link on here somewhere to a spreadsheet someone did.

Are they going for the "drug dealer" approach then(apologies if this offends anyone I am making no accusations), giving you a taste at a cheap price (the starter sets) but then the actual RRP is going to be a massive leap up?

Has it been said what the post kickstarter retail price their aiming for is?

How does this compare to the add on prices?

I'd probably be interested in some of the aliens. it dosent matter their bigger than most of my other collection cause their aliens (tho I might have to draw the line if their bigger than my tall marines ). But if the product line is going to be out of my normal hobby budget then there's no point really.

Is what their proposing to do at this stage feasible for them on KS funds?
How much does a resin mold cost and how many uses on average until it needs to be replaced?
How much on average is the material cost for the resin they are using per unit(per miniature or per casting)?

 JoeRugby wrote:
Are they going for the "drug dealer" approach then(apologies if this offends anyone I am making no accusations), giving you a taste at a cheap price (the starter sets) but then the actual RRP is going to be a massive leap up?

Has it been said what the post kickstarter retail price their aiming for is?

How does this compare to the add on prices?

I'd probably be interested in some of the aliens. it dosent matter their bigger than most of my other collection cause their aliens (tho I might have to draw the line if their bigger than my tall marines ). But if the product line is going to be out of my normal hobby budget then there's no point really.

Is what their proposing to do at this stage feasible for them on KS funds?
How much does a resin mold cost and how many uses on average until it needs to be replaced?
How much on average is the material cost for the resin they are using per unit(per miniature or per casting)?

It's doable. I wouldn't want to do it, but if enough people buy the $15 heroes etc it will offset the pain of the $1.50 figures in the core set. At the moment though 350 people at least aregetting the core set and it's only day 1. There's no economy of scale with resin casting really, you can save a tiny percentage on bulk buying raw materials but the majority of the cost is labour/time.

I can only assume that they have priced the box as a loss leader and are 'really' hoping enough people buy the other stuff. They haven't even sculpted or printed most of this stuff yet, thatll have to come out of the money first so $1.50 a figure might even be too generous. It is probably the most insanely priced large scale resin stuff I've ever seen (just referring to the core set).

I've pledged btw if you want a bunch of cheap Ares? I only want the Riff, plus I'm more than curious about what I'll get and when

Ah that's a shame, I'll have to have a long hard think about it then as I've no real interest in the two forces in the box.

Honestly wouldn't touch this with a barge pole - it smells all wrong.

 RobertsMinis wrote:
Honestly wouldn't touch this with a barge pole - it smells all wrong.

Do tell - how so?

The price for high quality resin models just seems too low in the starter box, and when something appears to be too good to be true, it usually is.

I only want the riff too.. Maybe, you can keep your not marines I prefer my true scaled marines

I guess there many ways of doing the resin casting but how long does it normaly take to cure?

 RobertsMinis wrote:
The price for high quality resin models just seems too low in the starter box, and when something appears to be too good to be true, it usually is.

Maybe?

I think, for this campaign, it is a "loss leader" - I know that it has gotten me in, and I'm looking to add in a few $15 'heroes' and $35 "boosters" (usually 3 figs!) and other stuff.

Ultimately, as AB noted above, if enough people add on enough stuff, they'll be OK.

Oh, they'll probably miss that 9/2015 ship date and be late, but they'll be OK!