Do you want an End Times for 40k?

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**ciaotym**

If dead Primarchs come back, and Sanguinious does, would the Blood Angels be so happy the nightmares are over
they would pee their pants or would their heads explode?

**koooaei**

ciaotym wrote:
If dead Primarchs come back, and Sanguinious does, would the Blood Angels be so happy the nightmares are over
they would pee their pants or would their heads explode?

Both.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
GW advance the story line. It just happens slowly. Like in 6-th (...or 7-th) ed fluff Abaddon actually manages to take enough Cadian ground to launch a full-scale crussade for Terra. Ghazzy comes up with an idea of a mega-waaaagh uniting every single ork in the galaxy and is actively doing it - not just fighting for a single sector in Armageddon wars. Emps is getting worse.

See, it's actually advancement - just some slow one that doesn't change much for gameplay. And it's good imo. People are still interested in what's there allready. And by rapid advancement GW can easilly screw things up. Such things must take pace.

Also, take note that the vast ammount of tabletop WH40k current fandom is rather conservative and doesn't want any significant changes ~~cause we're old farts~~.

**Icelord**

We finally got something unique in fantasy and the 40k guys need to have it. Don't you have enough storyline?!

Back off fantasy's' goods!

**Cambonimachine**

mrgarm13 wrote:
I would look forward to just an advancement of the timeline to wrap up character stories and introduce new ones. (I have the same feelings towards comics.)

Alright, a vision of 40K end times.

Ghazkull Un Thraka forms the largest Waaaggh in history, his rivals are beaten into submission or rally to his banner.

Ahriman finally finds the Black Library and absorbs it's knowledge, leaving a burning shell in his wake.

Abbadon see's the Un Thraka's Waaaggh is heading to Terra. Reports of a Tyranid fleet approaching Terra reach him as well. The Emperor is his to kill and his alone. Bargaining with the newly empowered Ahriman and the Chaos Gods Abbadon launches one last Black Crusade.

The Chaos fleet comes out of the warp in Ghazkulls path. The two fleet's battle while Abbadon leads a boarding action on Ghazkulls rok, hoping to decapitate the Waaagh. He reaches the throne room of the mighty Ork Warlord. Terminators clash with Nobs, the sounds of power claws and bolters are but a din to Abbadon and Ghazkull as the two clash in personal combat. Finally though, Abbadon over powers the Ork and cleaves him in two. A hasty retreat is called as the Orks fall upon each other to lead the Waaagh!

The Imperium had been hastily assembling warships and forces to Terra in preparation. Even with more ships arriving strategists worry that it won't be enough. Suddenly Eldar fleets arrive offering aid. Can Holy Terra be defiled by the presence of aliens? Desperate times force the Imperium to allow the Eldar to assist.

Abbadon and his fleet emerge from the Warp above Terra. As ships move to engage, Ahriman uses his new magics to create a warp storm, isolating the planet.

(2nd Siege of Terra)

Abbadon manages to get to the steps of the Golden Throne. Dante blocks his path. The two duel but finally Abbadon stabs Dante through the breast plate, killing him. Abbadon smiles as victory is finally his but he hears multiple footsteps on the stairs. He looks up and screams in horror for standing there is the Emperor whole, with Horus at his side. Abbadon snaps and attacks. Horus deflects Abbadon's wild swings, making it obvious to all in attendance that Abbadon is out matched. Finally, Horus snaps Abbadon's neck and watches the life flow out of him.

Ahriman becomes a gibbering wreck from having all that power in him. The Warp Storms subside and the Chaos forces are forced to retreat for a second time from Terra. So the Imperium began, so the Imperium ended.

I thought about that in class and on the way home. Just a thought on how an End Times 40K would work.

But doing the small campaigns work too. Either way.

This. Holy crap this please

**Psienesis**

Not even the Emperor can resurrect Horus.

**Veteran of The Long War**

mrgarm13 wrote:
I would look forward to just an advancement of the timeline to wrap up character stories and introduce new ones. (I have the same feelings towards comics.)

Alright, a vision of 40K end times.

Ghazkull Un Thraka forms the largest Waaaggh in history, his rivals are beaten into submission or rally to his banner.

Ahriman finally finds the Black Library and absorbs it's knowledge, leaving a burning shell in his wake.

Abbadon see's the Un Thraka's Waaaggh is heading to Terra. Reports of a Tyranid fleet approaching Terra reach him as well. The Emperor is his to kill and his alone. Bargaining with the newly empowered Ahriman and the Chaos Gods Abbadon launches one last Black Crusade.

The Chaos fleet comes out of the warp in Ghazkulls path. The two fleet's battle while Abbadon leads a boarding action on Ghazkulls rok, hoping to decapitate the Waaagh. He reaches the throne room of the mighty Ork Warlord. Terminators clash with Nobs, the sounds of power claws and bolters are but a din to Abbadon and Ghazkull as the two clash in personal combat. Finally though, Abbadon over powers the Ork and cleaves him in two. A hasty retreat is called as the Orks fall upon each other to lead the Waaagh!

The Imperium had been hastily assembling warships and forces to Terra in preparation. Even with more ships arriving strategists worry that it won't be enough. Suddenly Eldar fleets arrive offering aid. Can Holy Terra be defiled by the presence of aliens? Desperate times force the Imperium to allow the Eldar to assist.

Abbadon and his fleet emerge from the Warp above Terra. As ships move to engage, Ahriman uses his new magics to create a warp storm, isolating the planet.

(2nd Siege of Terra)

Abbadon manages to get to the steps of the Golden Throne. Dante blocks his path. The two duel but finally Abbadon stabs Dante through the breast plate, killing him. Abbadon smiles as victory is finally his but he hears multiple footsteps on the stairs. He looks up and screams in horror for standing there is the Emperor whole, with Horus at his side. Abbadon snaps and attacks. Horus deflects Abbadon's wild swings, making it obvious to all in attendance that Abbadon is out matched. Finally, Horus snaps Abbadon's neck and watches the life flow out of him.

Ahriman becomes a gibbering wreck from having all that power in him. The Warp Storms subside and the Chaos forces are forced to retreat for a second time from Terra. So the Imperium began, so the Imperium ended.

I thought about that in class and on the way home. Just a thought on how an End Times 40K would work.

But doing the small campaigns work too. Either way.

The problem with that is that Abaddon beat Horus' Clone in single combat. While the clone wouldn't have had the combat experience that the real Horus had it's still impressive and this is before abaddon obtained Drach'nyen.

**endlesswaltz123**

Weren't the clones mentally unstable and insane though? And not in the way that Kharn is insane, talking jibbering wreck of a man insane due to not having the connection of a soul/presence in the warp.

Abbaddon did not best a Horus in his prime, or just one without combat experience, he essentially defeated a 10 ft man with the mental age of a 3 year old irish setter.

**Co'tor Shas**

I had my own version of end times a bit ago. I can't find the exact post, so I'll try and re-create it.

The 13th (or whatever) crusade is successful (ish), with the forces of chaos managing to take most, if not all, of Terra. The light of the astronomipolytechnoconicom disrupted, warp travel and communication is massively disrupted. The imperium is thrown into disarray, a point taken to full advantage by their foes. The Tau empire seizes the initiative, beginning the fourth sphere of expansion, attacking the now weakened imperial planets of the galactic east. The Eldar, with their own secret plans, start capturing world and attacking outposts with no fathomable reason, at least for humans. A great WAAAGH rises, led by the infamous Grazzgul Thraka. Dark Eldar raids increase, and the Necron dynasties continue to slowly wake up. New invasions of the forces of chaos spring up. The Tyranids continue to advance. Can those leaders in the Imperium that still survive, stop the oncoming enemies, and re-take Holy Terra from the vile hand of chaos, or is this the end of the Imperium as we know it?

**Psienesis**

Can those leaders in the Imperium that still survive, stop the oncoming enemies, and re-take Holy Terra from the vile hand of chaos, or is this the end of the Imperium as we know it?

No, and in the scenario described, the Imperium as we know it has already ended. This is an end of the faction entirely.

**Co'tor Shas**

Psienesis wrote:
Can those leaders in the Imperium that still survive, stop the oncoming enemies, and re-take Holy Terra from the vile hand of chaos, or is this the end of the Imperium as we know it?

No, and in the scenario described, the Imperium as we know it has already ended. This is an end of the faction entirely.

Not necessarily, the re-capturing of Terra, the re-birth of the empy, ect, ect.

**Psienesis**

Isn't going to happen without the Astronomican or Mars. Lacking the first means "local jumps only" for every Warp-capable ship in the Imperium. This means that Hive Worlds starve, trade grinds to a halt, and things fall rapidly apart inside of a year.

It also means entire systems lost to Daemonic Incursion when the Black Ships can no longer collect the Psyker Tithe, and the weakest amongst them fall prey to the whispering sentiences of the Warp, and are Patient Zero for mass daemonic possessions. Without the ability for the Grey Knights to go anywhere, there is nothing to stop the Daemons from simply taking over entire worlds.

Once that happens, places like Ultramar go into "lockdown" mode. While places such as this will likely be able to handle their own Psykers (by killing them), they can't really go anywhere. Lacking the Astronomican means that any Imperial counter-attack is going to arrive in the Sol System piecemeal and scattered.... easy pickings for any Chaos Fleet sitting in the system.

**mrgarm13**

I added the Horus thing because Abbadon is Chaos. And being Chaos requires that "Twilight Zone" ironic twist at the end of his story.

I also would have added that Cypher finally finishes what ever the hell he's doing but that would be like the 6th special character in the same area.

The Horus issue... I didn't realize that he had been so completely destroyed. But it would be Emperor 2.0. Or I am stomping on the seed of a good idea?

I always wonder about how the Chaos Gods can resurrect people. What happens if they come across Old Zogwart and get turned into a squig? Does the soul belong to Gork (or possibly Mork)? Maybe Horus repented in the last half second of sanity (Lexicanum) and simply waited for the Emperor to resurrect him? (I'm taking huge leaps but damn it, it's the end times. Weird stuff is supposed to happen.)

I think 40K could use some hope in it for humanity. There's only so many times you can play "The Heroic Last Stand" game after reading the fluff for the game.

**Coldstream**

If we insist on an "End Time" I'd suggest that GW bring back Malal/Malice (or GW's new equivalent with helpfully expensive model ready for sale).

Have Malice manifest itself and the Sons of Malice in the midst of Abaddon's latest Black Crusade attacking the Black Legion and all the other CSMs. Malice could even be the reason the Black Crusade fails.

This would better reflect the capriciousness of what Chaos truly is, rather than just the "cool" evil supervillains on the cusp of success that they've turned into these days. Too many of the "End Times" ideas complain that the setting has become too "Good vs Evil" but then propose stories that simply mean the Evil side wins.

If you're going to have Chaos, have Chaos.

Show this silly Abaddon and his ilk that think Chaos really cares about their petty jealousies and impotent rage what it's really all about.

**Psienesis**

mrgarm13 wrote:
I added the Horus thing because Abbadon is Chaos. And being Chaos requires that "Twilight Zone" ironic twist at the end of his story.

I also would have added that Cypher finally finishes what ever the hell he's doing but that would be like the 6th special character in the same area.

The Horus issue... I didn't realize that he had been so completely destroyed. But it would be Emperor 2.0. Or I am stomping on the seed of a good idea?

I always wonder about how the Chaos Gods can resurrect people. What happens if they come across Old Zogwart and get turned into a squig? Does the soul belong to Gork (or possibly Mork)? Maybe Horus repented in the last half second of sanity (Lexicanum) and simply waited for the Emperor to resurrect him? (I'm taking huge leaps but damn it, it's the end times. Weird stuff is supposed to happen.)

I think 40K could use some hope in it for humanity. There's only so many times you can play "The Heroic Last Stand" game after reading the fluff for the game.

All souls go into the Warp upon death. If the Chaos Gods want to resurrect someone, they just snag that soul, snap their tentacles to create a new body, and shove that soul into it. Viola!

... Except Horus. The Emperor killed him so hard his soul disintegrated and was utterly, completely destroyed.

**Crimson**

This thread has just cemented my opinion that 40K 'end times' should not happen. Most of these ideas here would utterly ruin the setting. I'd not oppose Armageddon style great but local incidents, or even Chaos making some major gains (40K Chaos seems a bit toothless) but nothing like taking Terra. And there absolutely should be no big, shiny, superheroes returning to save the day. That would be the worst.

**ZebioLizard2**

Coldstream wrote:
If we insist on an "End Time" I'd suggest that GW bring back Malal/Malice (or GW's new equivalent with helpfully expensive model ready for sale).

Have Malice manifest itself and the Sons of Malice in the midst of Abaddon's latest Black Crusade attacking the Black Legion and all the other CSMs. Malice could even be the reason the Black Crusade fails.

This would better reflect the capriciousness of what Chaos truly is, rather than just the "cool" evil supervillains on the cusp of success that they've turned into these days. Too many of the "End Times" ideas complain that the setting has become too "Good vs Evil" but then propose stories that simply mean the Evil side wins.

If you're going to have Chaos, have Chaos.

Show this silly Abaddon and his ilk that think Chaos really cares about their petty jealousies and impotent rage what it's really all about.

Cusp of success after being the equivalent of Ork Fodder for the longest time seems rather funny.

**Supertony51**

I wouldn't mind the return of a couple primarchs, from both sides.

I figure it will give the table top bad ass showdown type battles I.E. Mortarion vs Russ

**Da Butcha**

If it's the End Times, then it ends during that time.

Unless the Warhammer Fantasy world is going to be swallowed by Chaos (or whatever) and there will be NO MORE GAMES of Fantasy, it's not the End Times. It's hyperbolic branding.

I don't want hyperbolic branding for 40K, any more than I wanted it for Fantasy. I'm not sure why GW (and, evidently, a lot of the fanbase) seem to think that the only two options are stagnation and massive, dislocating change. It's unrealistic for Fantasy (none of these things came to a head in the last thousand years?) and it's even more preposterous in 40K--you have a whole freaking galaxy, and, heck, aliens that seem to be invading from ANOTHER one.

I would like to see some change and development in 40K, but I don't want to see everything rapidly altered in six months of publishing.

I'd also like to see some acknowledgement that something interesting happened in the ten thousand years between the Horus Heresy and M40.999. Could we see some stuff that happened, say, near the beginning of the 41st millennium? One of my favorite moments in 40K was when Ravenor, who had no idea what they were, witnessed the Tyranids during some time travel. I didn't like that for the scene itself (which was fine). I loved it for reminding me of the the fact that it was still strongly, emphatically, 40K in those novels, but they entirely preceded the Tyranid menace (as least, as far as anyone in them knew).

**Maximus Bitch**

Crimson wrote:
GW has already ruined my favourite FB faction (the Empire) by introducing stupid demi-god Emperor, I really do not need that in 40K.

Wait, what?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

RileyJessup wrote:
I hope that this happens the return of the pirmarchs would be awesome, same with hopefully some way to finally destroy chaos and the tyranid threat across the galaxy, orks become pirates basically because they get caught in the crossfire but can never actually be completely destroyed cause spores, most necrons get destroyed, and an uneasy alliance ensues between the tau, eldar, and imperium. And hopefully alot of imperial mercenary split offs to introduce some new cool models. Anyway thats just my take of what i think should happen cheers!

That is not Grimdark at all.

**SkavenLord**

Wasn't the fantasy end times set in an alternate dimension? If they could do that, I wouldn't mind.

The kid in me who likes massive battles is cheering this on.

The adult in me is afraid it might be too boring.

**Maximus Bitch**

Da Butcha wrote:

I'd also like to see some acknowledgement that something interesting happened in the ten thousand years between the Horus Heresy and M40.999. Could we see some stuff that happened, say, near the beginning of the 41st millennium? One of my favorite moments in 40K was when Ravenor, who had no idea what they were, witnessed the Tyranids during some time travel. I didn't like that for the scene itself (which was fine). I loved it for reminding me of the the fact that it was still strongly, emphatically, 40K in those novels, but they entirely preceded the Tyranid menace (as least, as far as anyone in them knew).

There are a couple of events: The Age of Apostasy, Nova Terra, Pale Wasting, Badab War, Macharian Crusade, Abyssal Crusade, Sabbat Worlds Crusade, Siege of Vraks, all 3 wars for Armageddon.

See? Nothing that game changing, but still quite interesting.

**SkavenLord**

Maximus Bitch wrote:
Da Butcha wrote:

I'd also like to see some acknowledgement that something interesting happened in the ten thousand years between the Horus Heresy and M40.999. Could we see some stuff that happened, say, near the beginning of the 41st millennium? One of my favorite moments in 40K was when Ravenor, who had no idea what they were, witnessed the Tyranids during some time travel. I didn't like that for the scene itself (which was fine). I loved it for reminding me of the the fact that it was still strongly, emphatically, 40K in those novels, but they entirely preceded the Tyranid menace (as least, as far as anyone in them knew).

There are a couple of events: The Age of Apostasy, Nova Terra, Pale Wasting, Badab War, Macharian Crusade, Abyssal Crusade, Sabbat Worlds Crusade, Siege of Vraks, all 3 wars for Armageddon.

See? Nothing that game changing, but still quite interesting.

Even then, I'll also add to this saying that the much smaller conflicts can be interesting. Look at the Dawn of War games. The entire storyline of DOW 2 (including expansions) only took place in one sector, but still felt sort of large.

There are many interesting events. They're just not always the big ones.

**Iracundus**

SkavenLord wrote:
Maximus Bitch wrote:
Da Butcha wrote:

I'd also like to see some acknowledgement that something interesting happened in the ten thousand years between the Horus Heresy and M40.999. Could we see some stuff that happened, say, near the beginning of the 41st millennium? One of my favorite moments in 40K was when Ravenor, who had no idea what they were, witnessed the Tyranids during some time travel. I didn't like that for the scene itself (which was fine). I loved it for reminding me of the the fact that it was still strongly, emphatically, 40K in those novels, but they entirely preceded the Tyranid menace (as least, as far as anyone in them knew).

There are a couple of events: The Age of Apostasy, Nova Terra, Pale Wasting, Badab War, Macharian Crusade, Abyssal Crusade, Sabbat Worlds Crusade, Siege of Vraks, all 3 wars for Armageddon.

See? Nothing that game changing, but still quite interesting.

In all those events listed, the Necrons, Tyranids, and Tau are absent and their players would be barred from participating in these historic events. Only the 3rd War for Armageddon occurs during a time when these factions are active, and that war was Imperium vs. Orks.

None of these factions became active til the very end of M41. If GW were to restrict their focus to only past historical events, these factions (and those players that play them) would be left neglected indefinitely.

**Maximus Bitch**

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
White Wolf finally, after several incarnations of their 'near apocalyptic' World of Darkness themed games, staged a full and total End Times.

Shortly thereafter the company ceased to exist.

Are you saying that bringing up an "End Times" will actually lead to an end time for a company?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Iracundus wrote:
SkavenLord wrote:
Maximus Bitch wrote:
Da Butcha wrote:

I'd also like to see some acknowledgement that something interesting happened in the ten thousand years between the Horus Heresy and M40.999. Could we see some stuff that happened, say, near the beginning of the 41st millennium? One of my favorite moments in 40K was when Ravenor, who had no idea what they were, witnessed the Tyranids during some time travel. I didn't like that for the scene itself (which was fine). I loved it for reminding me of the the fact that it was still strongly, emphatically, 40K in those novels, but they entirely preceded the Tyranid menace (as least, as far as anyone in them knew).

There are a couple of events: The Age of Apostasy, Nova Terra, Pale Wasting, Badab War, Macharian Crusade, Abyssal Crusade, Sabbat Worlds Crusade, Siege of Vraks, all 3 wars for Armageddon.

See? Nothing that game changing, but still quite interesting.

In all those events listed, the Necrons, Tyranids, and Tau are absent and their players would be barred from participating in these historic events. Only the 3rd War for Armageddon occurs during a time when these factions are active, and that war was Imperium vs. Orks.

None of these factions became active til the very end of M41. If GW were to restrict their focus to only past historical events, these factions (and those players that play them) would be left neglected indefinitely.

40k is always very Imperio-centric anyway. The Tyranids have already had two near-apocalyptic invasions prior to 999. The Tau and Necrons have always been rather low-key, until FE came out.

Perhaps the new Necron dex might change things.

**Crimson**

Iracundus wrote:

In all those events listed, the Necrons, Tyranids, and Tau are absent and their players would be barred from participating in these historic events.

It was a mistake on GWs part to make those factions such late arrivals.

**Maximus Bitch**

Coldstream wrote:
endlesswaltz123 wrote:

Was with you all they until The Big E was stood up all of a sudden, and he had Horus beside him, who isn't just dead, dude is like DEAD dead...

Well, he got better.

What if Horus had succeeded in killing Big E, but was mortally wounded, so he switched his armour, resulting in Dorn mistakenly placing him on the Golden Throne, and thereby resulting in the greatest practical joke upon the Imperium?

**Crimson**

Maximus Bitch wrote:

There are a couple of events: The Age of Apostasy, Nova Terra, Pale Wasting, Badab War, Macharian Crusade, Abyssal Crusade, Sabbat Worlds Crusade, Siege of Vraks, all 3 wars for Armageddon.

See? Nothing that game changing, but still quite interesting.

New events on that scale would be perfectly OK. You can have an interesting campaign without destroying the setting.

**Psienesis**

.... Necrons, Tau, Sisters of Battle, and Tyranids are also not permitted in Heresy-era battles, and yet that doesn't seem to stop anyone from playing such games, nor does it seem to cause many chapped asses amongst the fanbase.

**Iracundus**

Psienesis wrote:
.... Necrons, Tau, Sisters of Battle, and Tyranids are also not permitted in Heresy-era battles, and yet that doesn't seem to stop anyone from playing such games, nor does it seem to cause many chapped asses amongst the fanbase.

Speak for yourself. There are some local players here who play Tau, Tyranids, and Necrons who hate the Heresy-era Marinefest focus from FW for precisely that reason.

Now take that and imagine if GW would only focus exclusively on the past and effectively bar these factions forever from any participation or new development. Sure you can have some development of the past but to dwell purely on the past is just going to alienate entire segments of customers, and GW financials aren't in such a dazzling state that they can go around doing that.

**ZebioLizard2**

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
White Wolf finally, after several incarnations of their 'near apocalyptic' World of Darkness themed games, staged a full and total End Times.

Shortly thereafter the company ceased to exist.

Only if you ignore every other financial problem they had before then.

Though at this rate CCP will be killing them off again with their horrific practices.