Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

At 500 points or even 1000 points a scout company would rip appart that riptide list.

Poison and rending, combined with sniper fire to kill the marker lights.

 sfshilo wrote:
At 500 points or even 1000 points a scout company would rip appart that riptide list.

Poison and rending, combined with sniper fire to kill the marker lights.

Ah yes I'm sure, what sound logic

Its not like it takes 420 points worth of nothing but Scout Snipers that suck at killing even the worst infantry and can't do jack to vehicles to kill one Riptide. 35+ shots., that's how many you'll need to kill just one. And that doesn't even factor in 5+ invulnerable saves.

There's not plenty that can kill Riptides. People exaggerate that a lot. If there's plenty I wouldn't alternate between extremely similar lists all the time with many of the same units just because I'd autolose against Riptides without them.

Exaggeration goes both ways because Riptides are not these invincible killing machines that many of you make it out to be. never had issues with them when using my marines as there is quite a few sound strategies and weaponry that are great against them even in balanced lists.

 Rommel44 wrote:
Exaggeration goes both ways because Riptides are not these invincible killing machines that many of you make it out to be. never had issues with them when using my marines as there is quite a few sound strategies and weaponry that are great against them even in balanced lists.

Codex makes a huge difference in how easy it is to kill, not every one has access too "everything grav" like marines. Nids, as an example have a terrible time with them, one or 2 okay, but a quad tide list would be very hard.

SGTPozy wrote:

2+ armour is pretty common, so use plasma to take Riptides out, just like you would against Terminators.

But plasma is not necessary to kill Terminators. In fact, oftentimes it is pretty unnecessary. Termies die pretty easily to dakka, or simply under weight of CC attacks. Typically, my Deathwing army has like 3 termies left at the end of the game - including victorious games! This is against armies which in no way specialize in killing Termies.

 Rommel44 wrote:
Exaggeration goes both ways because Riptides are not these invincible killing machines that many of you make it out to be. never had issues with them when using my marines as there is quite a few sound strategies and weaponry that are great against them even in balanced lists.

Good for you.

Noone is claiming they're invincible, we're pointing out that they're way too hard to kill for how much they cost relative to their other abilities as well, and there's the fact that their existence is worth as much thought about as any kind of vehicle when writing a list, and they make lists more monotonous.

Exactly. Compare Riptide to an Ionhead: the situations where Ionhead would be better than Riptide are extremely rare, and against almost any kind of attacks, Riptide is much more durable than a tank, sometimes by an absurd amount (it's not very hard to kill or cripple a Hammerhead with Krak Missiles, try that against Riptide). Yet no logical explanation whatsoever exist why Riptide is so much more durable against attacks which would easily kill a tank.

Backfire wrote:
Exactly. Compare Riptide to an Ionhead: the situations where Ionhead would be better than Riptide are extremely rare, and against almost any kind of attacks, Riptide is much more durable than a tank, sometimes by an absurd amount (it's not very hard to kill or cripple a Hammerhead with Krak Missiles, try that against Riptide). Yet no logical explanation whatsoever exist why Riptide is so much more durable against attacks which would easily kill a tank.

Only that all Tanks in general are to fragile. Tanks should cost more and be a lot tougher but that is another thread.

How are you losing that many wounds to plasma. At 2/3 to hit * 2/3 to wound * 2/3 to not invuln * 2/3 to feel pain, that's 16 /81 or about 20% per shot of stripping a single wound. 25 shots is a lot of plasma fire.

 Mr.Omega wrote:

 Rommel44 wrote:
Exaggeration goes both ways because Riptides are not these invincible killing machines that many of you make it out to be. never had issues with them when using my marines as there is quite a few sound strategies and weaponry that are great against them even in balanced lists.

Good for you.

Noone is claiming they're invincible, we're pointing out that they're way too hard to kill for how much they cost relative to their other abilities as well, and there's the fact that their existence is worth as much thought about as any kind of vehicle when writing a list, and they make lists more monotonous.

To call a Tau army monotonous for taking Riptides is like saying a Grey Knight army is monotonous for taking Dreadknights, Eldar for taking Wave Serpents, Tyranids for taking Flytyrants ect. and so forth. An argument can be made for every army taking a particular unit, the Tau are not the only ones who do so. And I cant remember where it was mentioned in this thread but the Riptide itself is not overpowered, I do believe that the fault lies with the Ion Accelerator. To have such a powerful weapon be only 5 points it is a no brainer for people to take it, increase the points cost to about 15-20 and it would be perfectly fine. Take into account the base Riptide especially when compared to its counterparts such as the Wraithkight and Dreadknight:

-The Riptide as a whole is 180pts. for a BS3 S6 T6 5 wound Monstrous Creature that counts as a "Jet Pack" unit. IThas a 2+ armor save and a 5+ invulnerable save, It does have the chance to improve its abilities but at a risk of hurting itself 1/3 of the time and does also have a random 2D6 move in the assault phase. It comes base with Night Visions and the Tau Support Fire rule.

-Dreadknight is 130pts. for a BS4 WS4 S6 T6 4 wound Monstrous Creature that has a 2+ armor save and a 5+ invulnerable save. It has access to psychic powers as it is a level 1 Psyker, the Aegis and preferred enemy Demons.

-The Wraithknight is 240pts. base for a BS4 WS4 S10 T8 8 wound Monstrous Creature that counts as a "jump" unit. Comes base with x2 S10 AP2 weapons that can instant kill anything on a wound roll of a 6, it is fearless and has ancient doom.

When compared to these guys the Riptide is not insanely crazy in the least. Granted that no one takes a standard Riptide, but then again no one ever takes a standard Dreadknight either (Wraithknight ive seen both) but at their base core points the Riptide is reasonable.

 Rommel44 wrote:


To call a Tau army monotonous for taking Riptides is like saying a Grey Knight army is monotonous for taking Dreadknights, Eldar for taking Wave Serpents, Tyranids for taking Flytyrants

If you're spamming riptides, dreadknights, wave serpents, flyrants or whatever common spammable unit, you ARE taking a monotonous list.

And than you compare a riptide to other poorly ballanced MC. Basically, your comment is: "Tran C'Tans are perfectly fine and ballanced when you compare them to other Tran C'Tans".

A unit can't really be considered without considering the upgrades available to it.

The major difference between a wave serpent and a devilfish is the serpent shield. See, those two things are totally the same and devilfish aren't OP. Clearly wave serpents are OK.

Tell your ork player that at 1000 points he can take a green tide and dakkjets tar pit those riptides

 Rommel44 wrote:

 Mr.Omega wrote:

 Rommel44 wrote:
Exaggeration goes both ways because Riptides are not these invincible killing machines that many of you make it out to be. never had issues with them when using my marines as there is quite a few sound strategies and weaponry that are great against them even in balanced lists.

Good for you.

Noone is claiming they're invincible, we're pointing out that they're way too hard to kill for how much they cost relative to their other abilities as well, and there's the fact that their existence is worth as much thought about as any kind of vehicle when writing a list, and they make lists more monotonous.

To call a Tau army monotonous for taking Riptides is like saying a Grey Knight army is monotonous for taking Dreadknights, Eldar for taking Wave Serpents, Tyranids for taking Flytyrants ect. and so forth. An argument can be made for every army taking a particular unit, the Tau are not the only ones who do so. And I cant remember where it was mentioned in this thread but the Riptide itself is not overpowered, I do believe that the fault lies with the Ion Accelerator. To have such a powerful weapon be only 5 points it is a no brainer for people to take it, increase the points cost to about 15-20 and it would be perfectly fine. Take into account the base Riptide especially when compared to its counterparts such as the Wraithkight and Dreadknight:

-The Riptide as a whole is 180pts. for a BS3 S6 T6 5 wound Monstrous Creature that counts as a "Jet Pack" unit. IThas a 2+ armor save and a 5+ invulnerable save, It does have the chance to improve its abilities but at a risk of hurting itself 1/3 of the time and does also have a random 2D6 move in the assault phase. It comes base with Night Visions and the Tau Support Fire rule.

-Dreadknight is 130pts. for a BS4 WS4 S6 T6 4 wound Monstrous Creature that has a 2+ armor save and a 5+ invulnerable save. It has access to psychic powers as it is a level 1 Psyker, the Aegis and preferred enemy Demons.

-The Wraithknight is 240pts. base for a BS4 WS4 S10 T8 8 wound Monstrous Creature that counts as a "jump" unit. Comes base with x2 S10 AP2 weapons that can instant kill anything on a wound roll of a 6, it is fearless and has ancient doom.

When compared to these guys the Riptide is not insanely crazy in the least. Granted that no one takes a standard Riptide, but then again no one ever takes a standard Dreadknight either (Wraithknight ive seen both) but at their base core points the Riptide is reasonable.

That's not what I meant at all, I was refering to lists playing against Riptides taking monotonous solutions because there's so few ways to go about it (and no, not even close to everyone or the majority takes anything they want from the Imperium line)/there are clear formats that are too much of a no brainer to fall into given Riptides, though your point is still weightless because "other armies do it to some extent as well" doesn't downplay the idea that it makes Tau lists more monotonous at all. And an IA Riptide at 195 would barely make any difference at all. The IA should cost more like 25-30 points or have its range reduced to 36'' at 15-20 pts.

The DK needs to get in spitting range to be work, the Riptide can do what it does best at 72'' away. The DK also needs the teleporter to even get to the enemy within a decent amount of time, and can die quickly up close to short range AP2. The Wraithknight has two guns which are mediocre anti-tank and alright anti-MC. It has no invulnerable with two wraithcannons and high strength AP3 ruins it.