Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Cheers kangodo.


Realistically guys, the only thing im p*ssed about with the dex is Baals being moved to HS and losing fast. Especially since a flamestorm cannon is apparently worth 40pts more than an autocannon. I've got 6 shelf sitters now (4 flamestorms).

Talons could have done with rampage and tycho needed an assault weapon aside from a bolt pistol.

Aside from that, I absolutely love this new dex and all the formations.

Poly Ranger wrote:
Cheers kangodo.


Realistically guys, the only thing im p*ssed about with the dex is Baals being moved to HS and losing fast. Especially since a flamestorm cannon is apparently worth 40pts more than an autocannon. I've got 6 shelf sitters now (4 flamestorms).

Talons could have done with rampage and tycho needed an assault weapon aside from a bolt pistol.

Aside from that, I absolutely love this new dex and all the formations.

The Baal still has fast, it lost scout.

Yeh sorry I meant scout. Scout was what made a flamestorm so good. 40pts more than a base pred now, has to get in melta range to be of use and won't realistically be firing against any smart opponent until T3. What a waste of points.

Kangodo wrote:
That is still possible!

In the old Codex you could take:
Dante + 30 Sanguinary Guard + Priest = 1500 points and that would give 10 or so FNP.

Now you can take:
Dante + 2x Priest + 30 Sanguinary Guard + 2x5 Scouts for 30 points less and that would give 20 models FNP.

So let's compare this:
+10 more models with FNP
+Guaranteed Furious Charge and Initiative 5 on the charge
+Dante hits at W7, I7, S7 with AP2 // 20 SG's hit at WS5, I5 and S5 with their Swords.
+10 Scouts so you could keep the entire SG-group in Deep Strike and you can camp your objectives (Scouts are good for this! Especially with CCWs)
+30 points left for anti-tank gear or Death Masks
+Squads of 10 (perhaps 2x10 for the priests and 2x5 to spread the assault)
+Dante's Mask is now sort of like a Fear-bubble.

-No pinpoint Deep Strike
-You might need to buy some Scout-models.

Poly Ranger wrote:
Sorry to ask again guys, but where do I find the formation with free power weapons on VVs and combis on sternies?

Shield of Baal: Exterminatus
I have the WD47 and it's not in there, so that is the only option left.

I happen to have some awesome metal scouts!

Edit: didn't read a couple posts after the one I quoted.

I wish there was a Baal Pred formation that gave them Scout. One can dream.

Im still using and loving my assault cannon preds. 135 points for a fast av13 platform with a ton of anti infantry/light armor gunfire? Yes please.

 th3maninblak wrote:
Im still using and loving my assault cannon preds. 135 points for a fast av13 platform with a ton of anti infantry/light armor gunfire? Yes please.

The BA don't need anti infantry fire, though. They need fire to kill things that they can't kill in hth.

Martel732 wrote:

 th3maninblak wrote:
Im still using and loving my assault cannon preds. 135 points for a fast av13 platform with a ton of anti infantry/light armor gunfire? Yes please.

The BA don't need anti infantry fire, though. They need fire to kill things that they can't kill in hth.

They also need gunfire to crack open transports and put wounds on MCs so they can win those combats. And TL assault cannons can tackle av12-13 as well.

The fact that the Assault Cannons are rending means you stand a good chance of putting the hurt on stuff no matter the toughness or AV. But you can do almost the same thing for a lot cheaper with a Razorback. Only drawback is the worse armor.

 jifel wrote:

 th3maninblak wrote:
Ive been running 2x10 assault marines with double melta and a power sword, and theyve been the MVPs in a couple games. If youre running dante i would try out 3x5 assault marines with jump packs and double melta starting in reserve.

If you're deepstriking the ASM, you could just take a Drop Pod instead... Also, you can buy either a combi melta or two pistols for the Sergeant, which isn't a bad deal for extra melta punch.

A drop podder unit is immobile as soon as it has arrived.
I'd prefer jump packs any day and reserve the pods for Tacticals.

It's better ASM on Rhino or on JP?
i normally whould use 2xASM with melta combo on pod but i need to avoid deep strike 'cause of @#£$%& interceptor, so i'm planning on rhino. However, i fear rhino's armor is too low to protect them and on feet they are almost useless

also, is it wise to use double detachment? i mean something like Baal Strike Force with DC, SG, Priests, ASM, bike and CCW scouts, and a CAD with just 2x tac. That's great, 'cause i can use sec obj on tactical and still get +1I on every assault/dc/sg marine. Plus i can get 2x priest AND Mephiston (and i can also put priest and Mephy on same unit for max crashing awesomeness) however i will need to pay double "troop tax". So long: it's cost effective? can i pick an allied detachment as BA while my main is BSF? or an allied flesh tearer (or another subchapter)?

last, but not least: is sanguinary a good choice for Mephiston? just the quickening will make him wreak havoc around the field, however a full biomancy could be more focused...

each-uisge wrote:
It's better ASM on Rhino or on JP?
i normally whould use 2xASM with melta combo on pod but i need to avoid deep strike 'cause of @#£$%& interceptor, so i'm planning on rhino. However, i fear rhino's armor is too low to protect them and on feet they are almost useless

also, is it wise to use double detachment? i mean something like Baal Strike Force with DC, SG, Priests, ASM, bike and CCW scouts, and a CAD with just 2x tac. That's great, 'cause i can use sec obj on tactical and still get +1I on every assault/dc/sg marine. Plus i can get 2x priest AND Mephiston (and i can also put priest and Mephy on same unit for max crashing awesomeness) however i will need to pay double "troop tax". So long: it's cost effective? can i pick an allied detachment as BA while my main is BSF? or an allied flesh tearer (or another subchapter)?

last, but not least: is sanguinary a good choice for Mephiston? just the quickening will make him wreak havoc around the field, however a full biomancy could be more focused...

Tacticals in Rhinos or Pods and ASM for deep striking or moving behind the Rhinos where the Rhinos are used as moving hills.

ASM on JP then?
Rhino are not really what i should call "moving hills"... more like "moving piece of cardboard"
luckily, they are fast and can flat out to 24" in a single round (or move in formation so the first give cover to the other ones...)

each-uisge wrote:
ASM on JP then?
Rhino are not really what i should call "moving hills"... more like "moving piece of cardboard"
luckily, they are fast and can flat out to 24" in a single round (or move in formation so the first give cover to the other ones...)

Unless they EXPLODE !! they remain on the table as scenery, so your likely to have a table full of Rhino Wrecks to hide behind

 th3maninblak wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 th3maninblak wrote:
Im still using and loving my assault cannon preds. 135 points for a fast av13 platform with a ton of anti infantry/light armor gunfire? Yes please.

The BA don't need anti infantry fire, though. They need fire to kill things that they can't kill in hth.

They also need gunfire to crack open transports and put wounds on MCs so they can win those combats. And TL assault cannons can tackle av12-13 as well.

You can grow old waiting to roll those "6s". The Baal is not an effective anti AV12-13 platform. Pay some more points and get a Stormraven.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
The fact that the Assault Cannons are rending means you stand a good chance of putting the hurt on stuff no matter the toughness or AV. But you can do almost the same thing for a lot cheaper with a Razorback. Only drawback is the worse armor.

It's not a good chance. Rending is a terrible rule unless it is army-wide like the Eldar. I personally think the assault cannon is a gak weapon. Paying 100+ pts for four rending shots is pretty crazy to me.

Rending isn't that terrible. But you are right, it is much better when practically everyone has it. But Eldar need a hefty amount of nerfing anyway.

I am wondering if a Techmarine w/servo harness with four servitors stuffed into a Stormraven a worthy investiture? I hate that the Techmarine takes up an HQ slot, but making the Stormraven even more durable might be worth it, also for some Bolster Defenses to make Scouts have a good cover save.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Rending isn't that terrible. But you are right, it is much better when practically everyone has it. But Eldar need a hefty amount of nerfing anyway.

I am wondering if a Techmarine w/servo harness with four servitors stuffed into a Stormraven a worthy investiture? I hate that the Techmarine takes up an HQ slot, but making the Stormraven even more durable might be worth it, also for some Bolster Defenses to make Scouts have a good cover save.

Having used the baal for years and years, i can tell you that rending is so unreliable it may as well not exist. You can pray for the "6"s, but thats a terrible general plan.

I actually cant count the number of rhinos, razorbacks, raiders, predators, and even wave serpents ive brought down with baal preds. Ive also found a 2 to 1 split of baals to stormravens to be a really good mix.

 th3maninblak wrote:
I actually cant count the number of rhinos, razorbacks, raiders, predators, and even wave serpents ive brought down with baal preds. Ive also found a 2 to 1 split of baals to stormravens to be a really good mix.

Consider yourself the world's luckiest BA player. And you don't need rending against AV 11. Still, I think the assault cannon is a poor weapon, especially compared to the scatter laser. Having to get within 24" for if-come-maybe "6" has never worked that well for me.

I know it was mentioned earlier but I want to elaborate on taking advantage of those free 400pts of free wargear in that formation.
I've ordered exterminarus but it's not arrived yet so I'm assuming you don't need a HQ in the formation.
The powerweapons I reckon would be good for a 5 sword/5axe split, allows you to deal with most stuff then. Combis on the stern a 5 melta/5 plasma split for the same reasons, combat squadded on deployment. Keeping the VVs as full 10 units. 1 would benefit from an attached priest from the rulebook detachment.
So what they would need so far is something to be able to thin horde. We have that in DC. 4 squads of 5 with no upgrades would be cheap and lethal for the points.
Anti-MC could be supplied by 2 grav biker squads and a 3rd melta biker squad with attack bike could provide further AT.
Scouts with bp&ccw with melta bombs on the sarges for cheap and cheerful threats to take the 2 troop slots. Elite force whilst being high amount of MSU.

Priest (In VV squad)
Jp

5 DC
Jps

5 DC
Jps

5 DC
Jps

5 DC
Jps

5 scouts
Mbs

5 scouts
Mbs

5 bikers
2 grav, combi grav

5 bikers
2 grav, combi grav

5 bikes and 1 attack bike
2 melta, combi melta, multimelta

10 VVs
5 sword, 5 axe

10 VVs
5 sword, 5 axe

10 sternguard
5 combi melta, 5 combi plasma

Stormraven
Tl mm, tl ac

2000pts

2 detachments for tournament use too. All round tac. Little light on AA. With 14 to 16 dangerous units.

What do you think?

each-uisge wrote:


also, is it wise to use double detachment? i mean something like Baal Strike Force with DC, SG, Priests, ASM, bike and CCW scouts, and a CAD with just 2x tac. That's great, 'cause i can use sec obj on tactical and still get +1I on every assault/dc/sg marine. Plus i can get 2x priest AND Mephiston (and i can also put priest and Mephy on same unit for max crashing awesomeness) however i will need to pay double "troop tax". So long: it's cost effective? can i pick an allied detachment as BA while my main is BSF? or an allied flesh tearer (or another subchapter)?

last, but not least: is sanguinary a good choice for Mephiston? just the quickening will make him wreak havoc around the field, however a full biomancy could be more focused...

I'm thinking I'll be taking 2 Detachments at anything 1500+. Primary will be Archangels, with a TDA Libby/Captain, Dread and any TDA or Sternguard I'm taking. In the secondary, it'll be a Baal Strike Force with my Tacticals, Assaults, DC and SG, and a pair of Priests in HQ. Basically, stuff that doesn't need the Init boost (shooters and Termies) goes in the Archangels, the rest go in a BSF for the old-school FC.

Martel732 wrote:

 th3maninblak wrote:
I actually cant count the number of rhinos, razorbacks, raiders, predators, and even wave serpents ive brought down with baal preds. Ive also found a 2 to 1 split of baals to stormravens to be a really good mix.

Consider yourself the world's luckiest BA player. And you don't need rending against AV 11. Still, I think the assault cannon is a poor weapon, especially compared to the scatter laser. Having to get within 24" for if-come-maybe "6" has never worked that well for me.

To each their own, i suppose. There are also tons of monsters in my meta, too. The baals help with them a ton as well.

I love my Baal but it just never seem's to cut the mustard.

 th3maninblak wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 th3maninblak wrote:
I actually cant count the number of rhinos, razorbacks, raiders, predators, and even wave serpents ive brought down with baal preds. Ive also found a 2 to 1 split of baals to stormravens to be a really good mix.

Consider yourself the world's luckiest BA player. And you don't need rending against AV 11. Still, I think the assault cannon is a poor weapon, especially compared to the scatter laser. Having to get within 24" for if-come-maybe "6" has never worked that well for me.

To each their own, i suppose. There are also tons of monsters in my meta, too. The baals help with them a ton as well.

Can't you put more wounds on monsters with a tri-las fast pred because of 48" range?

kryczek wrote:
I love my Baal but it just never seem's to cut the mustard.

Compare it to the Sicaran.

Oooh nasty. I like it.

What are people running HQ wise? I used to mix it up between libbies and reclusiarchs. We've lost access to Telepathy, so no access to invis. Our powers are pretty interesting but since only the Primarisis guaranteed I'm finding it hard to build a list with Libbies as the HQs

Now Priests are HQs so they're competing for the covetedslot. I always used to run them with full assault squads, but now I can't see myself running assault marines so now sure if I should take them...or who to put them with if I do (SG seem a good contender, but SG are pretty expensive so if not with the SG then with who?)

Captains now have access to Arty armour, so they're slightly more viable.

My meta isn't really going for LoWs, at the moment, so no Dante for me, hopefully I can persuade that the restrictions to LoWs should be not apply to Character LoWs, only super heavies...

So, yes what to do about the HQ conundrum?

I think librarians are still pretty valuable. Biomancy, divination, and sanguinius are all pretty useful.

I'm going with TDA Libby or TDA Captain with TH/SS for my Archangels Detachment, and 2 Priests in HQ for my BSF Detachment at 1850, running with Pod Assualt Squads (sadly now at 9 men so the Priest can fit).

So I just got Deathstorm for Christmas, being a Tyranid Fanatic. But, now that I have that, I'll be starting a small flesh Tearers army. I have the BA codex, but any Reccomendations on load out for the Shield of Baal units? I was thinking a Furioso Dread as that seems the best, and for DC I was thinking Jump Packs with one Hammer and one powersword on the Sergeant. For the captain, would it be best to replace the Stormbolter for a Combi? I have all the options if it is. And for Terminators, if I must take them, I was thinking I'd take one cyclone and one chain fist.

Thoughts on the above? Any more advice for flesh Tearers?