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So i heard a lot about a debate for the angels fury wing. When the stormravens arrive at turn 1 do the marines from drop pods assault or not?

 bloodoffi wrote:
So i heard a lot about a debate for the angels fury wing. When the stormravens arrive at turn 1 do the marines from drop pods assault or not?

There was a large thread on it here with no real conclusion drawn - honestly I would clear it up with your opponent before turn 1 until a FAQ is released. Personally I think it should.

I have had a few games with the new dex now, trying out different things (versing tyranids or nurgle marines). I have noticed a few things:

1) Our anti air is gak - 10 points extra per missile launcher is really pricey, so our only real viable option is the raven and in smaller games that is a lot of points to sink into 1 model.

2) Dante is an absolute machine but he does need something to support him or he will get shot to pieces. (honestly still toying with ideas here, thinking vanguard vets or sanguinary guard are the way to go...)

3) Corbulo is actually amazing, probably one of my favourite HQs to date - with his extra WS, FNP and all his high initiative rending attacks he is a very decent dude.

4) Not having objective secured is actually a real bummer with the Baal Strike Force - this alone probably cost me a game yesterday as there was a point contested by my tactical squad and my opponents plague marines - and those fethers just don't die very easily. He ended up winning by 2 tactical objectives at the end of turn 5. I start to wonder if the extra I is worth it...

5) Don't sent your captain with command squad into a bunch of terminators - it wont end well.

EDIT 6) Scouts be getting a lot of hate, but I have found even 5 dudes with sniper rifles and camo cloaks in an objective in terrain, they will quite possibly be ignored and hold it most of the game. That topped off with the snipers ability to pick off things with some lucky shots makes them quite a cost effective troop choice.

 th3maninblak wrote:

 soomemafia wrote:
Top HQ's?

1) Librarian, still.

2) Captain, decent enough.

3) Sanguinary Priest, a cheap, solid option.

I'm not impressed by the named characters at all, except for Dante.

The Captain is slightly better than in last codex but somehow I don't bother using him outside fluffy setups.
Librarian still benefits the army more and the benefits he gives to his squads are superior to the extra hit of the Captain.

Really? I would reverse that order.

1) Sanguinary priest. Cheap, surprisingly killy, gives massive buffs to his squad.

2) Captain. Solid combat character, hyper efficient in terms of cost to effectiveness ratio, makesa solid warlord.

3) Librarian. Can be awesome, but relies on too many random rolls (powers, warp charges, etc) to be consistent. As fragile as the priest, and the army doesnt usually generate enough power dice for him to do a ton.

Of the special characters, Dante is a monster, Mephiston is points efficient and is fantastic at cutting knights and thunderwolves down, and Astorath has become a very low costed character who is decent in combat, fairly durable, and turns the damage output of the best unit in the codex up to 11.

Interesting. With what equipment and squad do you run your Captains?

And forgot about Mephiston, he still gets stuff done!
Corbulo is situational and Astorath works well with the Death Company.

Out of curiousity, how do you feel about Lemartes?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

sm3g wrote:

 bloodoffi wrote:
So i heard a lot about a debate for the angels fury wing. When the stormravens arrive at turn 1 do the marines from drop pods assault or not?

There was a large thread on it here with no real conclusion drawn - honestly I would clear it up with your opponent before turn 1 until a FAQ is released. Personally I think it should.

I have had a few games with the new dex now, trying out different things (versing tyranids or nurgle marines). I have noticed a few things:

1) Our anti air is gak - 10 points extra per missile launcher is really pricey, so our only real viable option is the raven and in smaller games that is a lot of points to sink into 1 model.

2) Dante is an absolute machine but he does need something to support him or he will get shot to pieces. (honestly still toying with ideas here, thinking vanguard vets or sanguinary guard are the way to go...)

3) Corbulo is actually amazing, probably one of my favourite HQs to date - with his extra WS, FNP and all his high initiative rending attacks he is a very decent dude.

4) Not having objective secured is actually a real bummer with the Baal Strike Force - this alone probably cost me a game yesterday as there was a point contested by my tactical squad and my opponents plague marines - and those fethers just don't die very easily. He ended up winning by 2 tactical objectives at the end of turn 5. I start to wonder if the extra I is worth it...

5) Don't sent your captain with command squad into a bunch of terminators - it wont end well.

EDIT 6) Scouts be getting a lot of hate, but I have found even 5 dudes with sniper rifles and camo cloaks in an objective in terrain, they will quite possibly be ignored and hold it most of the game. That topped off with the snipers ability to pick off things with some lucky shots makes them quite a cost effective troop choice.

1) Agreed.

2) Sanguinary Guard is my choice. Compared to the Vanguard Vets, they get artificer armors and sort-of-PW's for 11 ppm.

3) Corbulo isn't that impressive if you ask me. Maybe it's just compared to the last dex, but I just don't see it. Not having a Jump Pack is one problem. And his Warlord trait... Extra Initiative? Really? It is lirerally the last thing he needs.
Buffing your own squad is great, but he just doesn't work with my guys that well. The only non-JP-non-Bike units I use are Tacticals and Assault Terminators with TH/SS combo so the buffs are wasted there.

4) I personally have not missed OS that much. My Troops are mostly Tacticals that keep in the midfield and hardly encounter any objective deniers. On the other hand, I see that the extra initiative doesn't seem that great. It has been useful but I'm still waiting for a situation where it actually effects the game.

5) Rule of thumb: don't send anything into a bunch of Terminators unless you wish to die or have 4++ or better/Eternal Warrior/lot's of AP2. Preferably avoid it until you have all three.

6) I like Scouts, but I don't like Snipers. Five of them means that you statistically wound the enemy about once per turn. And most of the time he gets armor saves for that.
Mobile objective scorers, on the other hand... I like it. Bolters or CCW's.

I run my captain with arty armor, a jump pack, and Valour's Edge, and have him bomb around with either dante, a priest and some sanguinary guard if i want to make a voltron super unit, ormore commonly 8-10 death company with 3 to 4 various close combat weapons. I personally prefer the death co escort.

And Lemmy is... eh. He's certainly not BAD, but for a few more points you could just have astorath, and lemmartes takes up one of our precious elite slots.

Well that's the problem about the Captain for me.

The only valid choice would be some really choppy JP squad, and since ASM is a bit lackluster it really leaves you three options.

Vanguard Vets? Why, Death Company are better in every way.

The Death Company then? Nah, a Chaplain or Astorath does way more there.

The Sanguinary Guard? Yes. That's it.
But... If you use Sanguinary Guard, you propably have Dante there alreasy for the DoA, right?

So give me one reason why should I use the Captain in the same squad as Dante? He does everything my cute little Captain could, only better.

So the only real use for Captain that I see is a cheap alternative for Dante in smaller games, or ones that won't allow LoW's.

I just don't find an effective way of using him. It's a shame, but can't change it.

On the Anti-Air question, does anyone have good Anti-Air besides Guard?

Tau
Space Marines (Stormtalon)
Eldar (Crimson Hunter)
The Red Hunters chapter (free Skyfire to some units)

At least those.

DA mortis dread- 4 str 7 TL shots, its decent anti-air power.

 soomemafia wrote:
Well that's the problem about the Captain for me.

The only valid choice would be some really choppy JP squad, and since ASM is a bit lackluster it really leaves you three options.

Vanguard Vets? Why, Death Company are better in every way.

The Death Company then? Nah, a Chaplain or Astorath does way more there.

The Sanguinary Guard? Yes. That's it.
But... If you use Sanguinary Guard, you propably have Dante there alreasy for the DoA, right?

So give me one reason why should I use the Captain in the same squad as Dante? He does everything my cute little Captain could, only better.

So the only real use for Captain that I see is a cheap alternative for Dante in smaller games, or ones that won't allow LoW's.

I just don't find an effective way of using him. It's a shame, but can't change it.

I haven't actually used a chaplain in a game in 7th since the new dex dropped, the lack of reclusiarch made me sad. I might need to invest in Astorath though, that guy is a bit of a boss...

I think that he works well with the DC, but that's it.
Nothing too amazing.

 soomemafia wrote:
I think that he works well with the DC, but that's it.
Nothing too amazing.

Yeah, and I am normally finding myself fielding a death company every game

A lot of tournaments still dont allow lords of war. In my no LoW list i run a priest with 5 sang guard and a cappy with 10 death co. The chaplain gives hatred, but fearless is wasted and the captain is better in combat and more durable for just a bit more points.

And putting him with dante and a priest gives you more high initiative ap2 attacks and another guy to tank small arms fire and plasma wounds.

 th3maninblak wrote:
A lot of tournaments still dont allow lords of war. In my no LoW list i run a priest with 5 sang guard and a cappy with 10 death co. The chaplain gives hatred, but fearless is wasted and the captain is better in combat and more durable for just a bit more points.

And putting him with dante and a priest gives you more high initiative ap2 attacks and another guy to tank small arms fire and plasma wounds.

Yeah I have found my captain performs well when I have used him... WHen he was with Dante and a 10 man assault squad and a priest, it was a mighty killy unit but I found having all my eggs a tad risky...

One thing I am yet to make my mind up on is whether or not I want the extra attack on my DC and to give them BP's or if I want the extra firepower and give them boltguns (exception being power swords, these guys will always have pistols).

 Anpu42 wrote:
On the Anti-Air question, does anyone have good Anti-Air besides Guard?

Yes the IoM does...

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuff/DEREDEO_PATTERN_DREADNOUGHT.html

 Byte wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:
On the Anti-Air question, does anyone have good Anti-Air besides Guard?

Yes the IoM does...

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuff/DEREDEO_PATTERN_DREADNOUGHT.html

Yeah saw this, I might invest in one, I like the model and its a whole bunch of anti air i you want it to be!

I think i'd pick up a sicaran before one of those, though thats just me.

 soomemafia wrote:
Well that's the problem about the Captain for me.

The only valid choice would be some really choppy JP squad, and since ASM is a bit lackluster it really leaves you three options.

Vanguard Vets? Why, Death Company are better in every way.

The Death Company then? Nah, a Chaplain or Astorath does way more there.

The Sanguinary Guard? Yes. That's it.
But... If you use Sanguinary Guard, you propably have Dante there alreasy for the DoA, right?

So give me one reason why should I use the Captain in the same squad as Dante? He does everything my cute little Captain could, only better.

So the only real use for Captain that I see is a cheap alternative for Dante in smaller games, or ones that won't allow LoW's.

I just don't find an effective way of using him. It's a shame, but can't change it.

I mentioned this in another thread about captains, but I'll mention it again here. One use for a Captain when running Dante us to give him a SS and Thunderhammer, JP and Arty Armour. Then you LOS all the <8 ap2 (ala Plasma) onto the SS and risk and >7 on Dante's 4++, through in a Sang priest for the FNP and run them with together. It's very pointy but it adds a nice bit of durability to the unit.

D

 evildrcheese wrote:

 soomemafia wrote:
Well that's the problem about the Captain for me.

The only valid choice would be some really choppy JP squad, and since ASM is a bit lackluster it really leaves you three options.

Vanguard Vets? Why, Death Company are better in every way.

The Death Company then? Nah, a Chaplain or Astorath does way more there.

The Sanguinary Guard? Yes. That's it.
But... If you use Sanguinary Guard, you propably have Dante there alreasy for the DoA, right?

So give me one reason why should I use the Captain in the same squad as Dante? He does everything my cute little Captain could, only better.

So the only real use for Captain that I see is a cheap alternative for Dante in smaller games, or ones that won't allow LoW's.

I just don't find an effective way of using him. It's a shame, but can't change it.

I mentioned this in another thread about captains, but I'll mention it again here. One use for a Captain when running Dante us to give him a SS and Thunderhammer, JP and Arty Armour. Then you LOS all the <8 ap2 (ala Plasma) onto the SS and risk and >7 on Dante's 4++, through in a Sang priest for the FNP and run them with together. It's very pointy but it adds a nice bit of durability to the unit.

D

...Why are you risking the >7s on Dante? Doesnt a captain also have an iron halo anyway?
I feel like I missing the point of this strat completely

Eternal Warrior. Captains don't have immunity to S8+ Instant Kill effect.

I dont know if this has been covered, but Ive been having huge success with a terminator libby equipped with Valor s Edge. Rolling on biomancy once for Warp Speed or Iron Arm, Then rolling on Sanguinary and taking the Primaris. Either D3+3 strength and initiative or D3 plus Iron arm with and AP2 sword. Ive been weed whacking through units.

So everyone seems super afraid of the new necron wraiths. Honestly i think we're pretty well set against them. We strike simultaneously on the charge and wound them on 4s. From there we are basically fighting 2 wound marines.

 th3maninblak wrote:
So everyone seems super afraid of the new necron wraiths. Honestly i think we're pretty well set against them. We strike simultaneously on the charge and wound them on 4s. From there we are basically fighting 2 wound marines.

Two wound marines with what chainswords should have, rend. :p

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
Eternal Warrior. Captains don't have immunity to S8+ Instant Kill effect.

Exactly, the captain is a plasma equivalent sponge, and even if he feels the 3++ he gets FNP from the priest, but if he eats a Lascannon shot he'll be doubled out. Dante has ET so you only risk losing a wound from anything that would double the Captain out.

Would Dante get FNP from S8 and higher shots due to having ET, and thus ignoring ID effects. At work so I can't check the wording on ID/FNP/ET.

D

 evildrcheese wrote:

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
Eternal Warrior. Captains don't have immunity to S8+ Instant Kill effect.

Exactly, the captain is a plasma equivalent sponge, and even if he feels the 3++ he gets FNP from the priest, but if he eats a Lascannon shot he'll be doubled out. Dante has ET so you only risk losing a wound from anything that would double the Captain out.

Would Dante get FNP from S8 and higher shots due to having ET, and thus ignoring ID effects. At work so I can't check the wording on ID/FNP/ET.

D

Ahh I know how eternal warrior works... I am just a full derp and didn't even realise Dante had it.....woops! (hasn't been instant deathed while using him but it would have changed my game style quite significantly!)

Eternal Warrior is worded in way that it doesn't reduce the Wounds to 0, not that it ignores the effects. So FNP wouldn't come into effect because of the other effects of Instant Death. Shame...

Adding in a Librarian with Biomancy's Life Leech would be a big bonus but that would eliminate the Captain HQ slot. What if using just Dante in the squad with the Librarian (or added in because of another Detachment) to give Wounds back to the 'tank' models.

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
I dont know if this has been covered, but Ive been having huge success with a terminator libby equipped with Valor s Edge. Rolling on biomancy once for Warp Speed or Iron Arm, Then rolling on Sanguinary and taking the Primaris. Either D3+3 strength and initiative or D3 plus Iron arm with and AP2 sword. Ive been weed whacking through units.

Interesting. Do you give him a Stormshield? What support unit is he going with and what about a delivery mechanism.

What do you do if you don't get Iron Arm/Waep Speed. Do you still use you second roll on Sang or another on Bio for the Phychic Focus?

I'd also be interested to know what the rest of your list looms like.

D

 evildrcheese wrote:

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
I dont know if this has been covered, but Ive been having huge success with a terminator libby equipped with Valor s Edge. Rolling on biomancy once for Warp Speed or Iron Arm, Then rolling on Sanguinary and taking the Primaris. Either D3+3 strength and initiative or D3 plus Iron arm with and AP2 sword. Ive been weed whacking through units.

Interesting. Do you give him a Stormshield? What support unit is he going with and what about a delivery mechanism.

What do you do if you don't get Iron Arm/Waep Speed. Do you still use you second roll on Sang or another on Bio for the Phychic Focus?

I'd also be interested to know what the rest of your list looms like.

D

If it was me I'd probably roll the second on sang still.

If you dont get Iron Arm you might get Endurance (not bad), Warp Speed (again not too bad) or Life Leech.
Enfeeble and Haemorrhage aren't that bad either, enfeeble could still give you and upperhand on combat, Haemorrhage has potential to do a lot but I wouldn't rely on that too heavily - would be tempted to swap it for the primaris.

sm3g wrote:

 evildrcheese wrote:

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
I dont know if this has been covered, but Ive been having huge success with a terminator libby equipped with Valor s Edge. Rolling on biomancy once for Warp Speed or Iron Arm, Then rolling on Sanguinary and taking the Primaris. Either D3+3 strength and initiative or D3 plus Iron arm with and AP2 sword. Ive been weed whacking through units.

Interesting. Do you give him a Stormshield? What support unit is he going with and what about a delivery mechanism.

What do you do if you don't get Iron Arm/Waep Speed. Do you still use you second roll on Sang or another on Bio for the Phychic Focus?

I'd also be interested to know what the rest of your list looms like.

D

If it was me I'd probably roll the second on sang still.

If you dont get Iron Arm you might get Endurance (not bad), Warp Speed (again not too bad) or Life Leech.
Enfeeble and Haemorrhage aren't that bad either, enfeeble could still give you and upperhand on combat, Haemorrhage has potential to do a lot but I wouldn't rely on that too heavily - would be tempted to swap it for the primaris.

If I dont get warp speed or iron arm, I still roll on sanguinary. Ive consistently gotten lucky with getting warp speed though. Yes, I give him a storm shield and he rides into battle with 5 TH/SS terminators in a Storm raven. Yesterday I was charged by a Bloodthirster with a regeneration ability and killed it very quickly. +6 Attacks and +6 Initiative got me to a base 8 attacks at initiative 10. The storm Shield kept him alive as well as endurance being casted on him by a fellow terminator Libby.

My list is usually built off of two terminator libbys and a Furioso Libby, a unit of TH/SS terminators, a storm raven and various tactical squads in Lasplas razorbacks.

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
My list is usually built off of two terminator libbys and a Furioso Libby, a unit of TH/SS terminators, a storm raven and various tactical squads in Lasplas razorbacks.

Sounds interesting... Would you mind posting an example list of 2000 points?

The thing is, unless I'm running two detachments and mephiston I don't like psychic powers. To many dice rolls for one thing to come together. You have to get the power, then you have to be able to cast it.