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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/11 16:15:02
Subject: Pask preffered enemy rule in relation to "Gets Hot" and "Re-roll Scatter"
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The Hive Mind
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blaktoof wrote:rigeld2 wrote:blaktoof wrote:things that give a blanket "reroll to hit" require nothing to be rolled, and have no condition that needs to be met before the attack has a reroll available to use.
No such thing. Other than Twin-Linked (which has a special exception) everything requires a failed To Hit roll.
Double Standard much? You're ignoring one qualifier and insisting another is relevant.
so something that never rolled a 1 to get a reroll you feel gets the reroll?
If a normal unit with PE rolls a 2 to hit, do they have rerolls to hit with PE?
So something that never fails a To Hit roll gets a re-roll?
Do you really not see the double standard you're applying?
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/11 16:29:20
Subject: Pask preffered enemy rule in relation to "Gets Hot" and "Re-roll Scatter"
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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rigeld2 wrote:morgoth wrote:rigeld2 wrote:
So if I'm firing a non-Blast weapon and roll a 1, I'm not allowed to re-roll my To Hit?
Funny, the rule says I am.
If you need to reword a rule to have it agree with you, that means you're wrong.
Here's a yes/no question for you:
Blast Weapons and Re-rolls
If a model has the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit and chooses to do so after firing a Blast weapon, the player must re-roll both the scatter dice and the 2D6.
Does the model have the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit ?
Yes.
Then that means you're in the camp that thinks having "the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit" is the same thing as being allowed to re-roll failed To Hit rolls of 1 against a specific enemy - when clearly both have vastly different effects.
Good for you.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/11 16:19:12
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/11 16:20:51
Subject: Pask preffered enemy rule in relation to "Gets Hot" and "Re-roll Scatter"
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The Hive Mind
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morgoth wrote:rigeld2 wrote:morgoth wrote:rigeld2 wrote:
So if I'm firing a non-Blast weapon and roll a 1, I'm not allowed to re-roll my To Hit?
Funny, the rule says I am.
If you need to reword a rule to have it agree with you, that means you're wrong.
Here's a yes/no question for you:
Blast Weapons and Re-rolls
If a model has the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit and chooses to do so after firing a Blast weapon, the player must re-roll both the scatter dice and the 2D6.
Does the model have the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit ?
Yes.
Then that means you're in the camp that thinks having "the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit" is the same thing as being allowed to re-roll failed To Hit rolls of 1 against a specific enemy - when clearly both have vastly different effects.
Good for you.
Incorrect. I'm in the camp that thinks that adding quality of the re-roll isn't in the Blast rule that you quoted. You're insisting it is. You've failed to prove so.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/11 16:25:59
Subject: Pask preffered enemy rule in relation to "Gets Hot" and "Re-roll Scatter"
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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rigeld2 wrote:morgoth wrote:rigeld2 wrote:morgoth wrote:rigeld2 wrote:
So if I'm firing a non-Blast weapon and roll a 1, I'm not allowed to re-roll my To Hit?
Funny, the rule says I am.
If you need to reword a rule to have it agree with you, that means you're wrong.
Here's a yes/no question for you:
Blast Weapons and Re-rolls
If a model has the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit and chooses to do so after firing a Blast weapon, the player must re-roll both the scatter dice and the 2D6.
Does the model have the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit ?
Yes.
Then that means you're in the camp that thinks having "the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit" is the same thing as being allowed to re-roll failed To Hit rolls of 1 against a specific enemy - when clearly both have vastly different effects.
Good for you.
Incorrect. I'm in the camp that thinks that adding quality of the re-roll isn't in the Blast rule that you quoted. You're insisting it is. You've failed to prove so.
you have failed to show any rules support that you get a reroll to hit with perferred enemy unless you roll a 1.
if a model rolls a miss that is not a 1 does it get a reroll? nope.
the reroll is for rolling 1 to hit, which blast weapons cannot do, therefore RAW no reroll. Automatically Appended Next Post: grendel083 wrote:blaktoof wrote:rigeld2 wrote:blaktoof wrote:things that give a blanket "reroll to hit" require nothing to be rolled, and have no condition that needs to be met before the attack has a reroll available to use.
No such thing. Other than Twin-Linked (which has a special exception) everything requires a failed To Hit roll.
Double Standard much? You're ignoring one qualifier and insisting another is relevant.
so something that never rolled a 1 to get a reroll you feel gets the reroll?
If a normal unit with PE rolls a 2 to hit, do they have rerolls to hit with PE?
And if something with Prescience doesn't miss, it doesn't get a re-roll.
There's a condition attached to that as well, which can't be met with a blast.
You can never "fail a To Hit roll" witha Blast, therefore you can never get a re-roll from Prescience by this logic.
The trigger to get the reroll is rolling a 1 for PE, if you did not roll a 1 to hit do you get a reroll?
as for prescience its a different rule and has no bearing on PE/blasts as if a unit has it it always grants the units reroll failed to hit rolls, PE only grants rerolls on rolls of 1. Does a model with PE that rolls a non 1 to hit get a reroll? no, so no reroll.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/11 16:30:05
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/11 16:30:33
Subject: Pask preffered enemy rule in relation to "Gets Hot" and "Re-roll Scatter"
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Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta
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nosferatu1001 wrote:Blasts and rerolls states otherwise Morgoth.
if you have the ability to reroll your to-hit, you may reroll your scatter. This is absolutely irrefutable.
Buddha - there is no ambiguity. There is no requirement to have any specific level of reroll, just an ability to reroll, therefore PE applies.
You also reroll Gets Hot!
God I love this argument, it makes my ammo runts happy.
I can reroll blasts all game long.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/11 16:42:39
Subject: Pask preffered enemy rule in relation to "Gets Hot" and "Re-roll Scatter"
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Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw
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blaktoof wrote:The trigger to get the reroll is rolling a 1 for PE, if you did not roll a 1 to hit do you get a reroll?
as for prescience its a different rule and has no bearing on PE/blasts as if a unit has it it always grants the units reroll failed to hit rolls, PE only grants rerolls on rolls of 1. Does a model with PE that rolls a non 1 to hit get a reroll? no, so no reroll.
The trigger to get a re-roll is a failed To Hit roll for Prescience, if you don't fail To Hit do you get a re-roll?
It's not possible to fail a To Hit roll with a Blast. It's not possible to roll a 1 To Hit with a Blast.
If you claim you cannot re-roll with preferred enemy, then you cannot claim to get a re-roll from Prescience. Do you accept that? Automatically Appended Next Post: Problem with that, is you have no Re-roll at all unless you actually use an ammo runt.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/12/11 16:46:35
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/01/12 02:14:56
Subject: Pask preffered enemy rule in relation to "Gets Hot" and "Re-roll Scatter"
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Long-Range Land Speeder Pilot
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this argument again....
ok, for those opposed to the re-rolling blast when you have preferred enemy
the rule for blasts getting a re-roll requires the firing model to have the capacity for a re-roll. that's it, nothing more, nothing less.
the stipulation for preferred enemy to function is that you are shooting at the enemy to which you have preference.
therefor you have the capacity for a re-roll. since the blast re-roll only cares that you have the capacity for a re-roll you may re-roll the blast weapon scatter roll.
there is no stipulation within the rule that states that the value of the re-roll (the ability to re-roll all misses vs the ability to re-roll a particular result) effects the blast's re-roll rule to trigger.
If you believe there is, please provide a page reference and paragraph/quote that states that the value of a re-roll matters when referring to blasts.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/11 16:58:49
Subject: Pask preffered enemy rule in relation to "Gets Hot" and "Re-roll Scatter"
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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grendel083 wrote:blaktoof wrote:The trigger to get the reroll is rolling a 1 for PE, if you did not roll a 1 to hit do you get a reroll?
as for prescience its a different rule and has no bearing on PE/blasts as if a unit has it it always grants the units reroll failed to hit rolls, PE only grants rerolls on rolls of 1. Does a model with PE that rolls a non 1 to hit get a reroll? no, so no reroll.
The trigger to get a re-roll is a failed To Hit roll for Prescience, if you don't fail To Hit do you get a re-roll?
It's not possible to fail a To Hit roll with a Blast. It's not possible to roll a 1 To Hit with a Blast.
If you claim you cannot re-roll with preferred enemy, then you cannot claim to get a re-roll from Prescience. Do you accept that?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Problem with that, is you have no Re-roll at all unless you actually use an ammo runt.
and you have no reroll at all unless you actually roll a 1 to hit for PE.
Automatically Appended Next Post: nutty_nutter wrote:this argument again....
ok, for those opposed to the re-rolling blast when you have preferred enemy
the rule for blasts getting a re-roll requires the firing model to have the capacity for a re-roll. that's it, nothing more, nothing less.
the stipulation for preferred enemy to function is that you are shooting at the enemy to which you have preference.
therefor you have the capacity for a re-roll. since the blast re-roll only cares that you have the capacity for a re-roll you may re-roll the blast weapon scatter roll.
there is no stipulation within the rule that states that the value of the re-roll (the ability to re-roll all misses vs the ability to re-roll a particular result) effects the blast's re-roll rule to trigger.
If you believe there is, please provide a page reference and paragraph/quote that states that the value of a re-roll matters when referring to blasts.
show where a model with PE has a reroll without rolling a 1 to hit.
if a model rolls a 2,3,4,5,6 does it have a reroll?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/11 16:59:26
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/11 17:01:50
Subject: Pask preffered enemy rule in relation to "Gets Hot" and "Re-roll Scatter"
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Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta
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grendel083 wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Problem with that, is you have no Re-roll at all unless you actually use an ammo runt.
there is no requirement to "use" the ammo runt. That's a common misconception.
if a model buys a ammo run, then the model with a ammo runt can reroll ....
does the model with the ammo runt have the ability to reroll? Yes
As that is the only requirement for blasts the model, any model with a ammo runt can reroll blasts anytime during the game.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/11 17:03:38
Subject: Pask preffered enemy rule in relation to "Gets Hot" and "Re-roll Scatter"
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Long-Range Land Speeder Pilot
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blaktoof, please show me where in the rules, that the value of the capacity for a re-roll, matters when rolling with blast weapons. do you have the capacity to re-roll when you shoot against an enemy that you have preference for? YES (on a roll of a 1 to hit) does the re-roll the scatter dice for blast weapons care how you would obtain a re-roll? NO does the rule for re-rolling scatter dice for blasts care that you have the capacity for a re-roll? YES (you must have the capability to re-roll dice in order to re-roll scatter) Automatically Appended Next Post: blaktoof wrote: show where a model with PE has a reroll without rolling a 1 to hit. if a model rolls a 2,3,4,5,6 does it have a reroll? show me where the blast rule cares do you agree that when a to hit roll of a 1 is made that the model can re-roll it? (your answer here is likely to be yes) so does the model have the ability to re-roll dice? (yes it does) so does the blast rule care? (nope)
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/12/11 17:06:18
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/11 17:07:54
Subject: Pask preffered enemy rule in relation to "Gets Hot" and "Re-roll Scatter"
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Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw
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blaktoof wrote:and you have no reroll at all unless you actually roll a 1 to hit for PE.
You have no re-roll at all unless you fail To Hit with Prescience.
Something you cannot achieve with a blast.
Do you claim you cannot re-roll the scatter with Prescience?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/11 17:10:04
Subject: Pask preffered enemy rule in relation to "Gets Hot" and "Re-roll Scatter"
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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nutty_nutter wrote:blaktoof, please show me where in the rules, that the value of the capacity for a re-roll, matters when rolling with blast weapons.
That value, or qualification, is your invention.
The rules explicitly ask for the ability to re-roll To Hit rolls.
Which is a specific ability that is different from the one given by Preferred enemy.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/11 17:17:24
Subject: Pask preffered enemy rule in relation to "Gets Hot" and "Re-roll Scatter"
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Long-Range Land Speeder Pilot
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morgoth wrote: nutty_nutter wrote:blaktoof, please show me where in the rules, that the value of the capacity for a re-roll, matters when rolling with blast weapons.
That value, or qualification, is your invention.
The rules explicitly ask for the ability to re-roll To Hit rolls.
Which is a specific ability that is different from the one given by Preferred enemy.
the value/ qualification is not my invention at all, that is the invention of those opposed to the re-roll due to the argument basing itself on the presumption that the quality of the re-roll matters somehow
care to back that up with an actual rule, because as far as I know, the ability to re-roll a dice is the ability to re-roll...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/11 17:23:45
Subject: Pask preffered enemy rule in relation to "Gets Hot" and "Re-roll Scatter"
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The Hive Mind
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morgoth wrote: nutty_nutter wrote:blaktoof, please show me where in the rules, that the value of the capacity for a re-roll, matters when rolling with blast weapons.
That value, or qualification, is your invention.
The rules explicitly ask for the ability to re-roll To Hit rolls.
Which is a specific ability that is different from the one given by Preferred enemy.
PE doesn't grant the ability to re-roll To Hit rolls?
Are you sure? Like - really sure?
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/11 18:06:44
Subject: Pask preffered enemy rule in relation to "Gets Hot" and "Re-roll Scatter"
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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morgoth wrote: nutty_nutter wrote:blaktoof, please show me where in the rules, that the value of the capacity for a re-roll, matters when rolling with blast weapons.
That value, or qualification, is your invention.
The rules explicitly ask for the ability to re-roll To Hit rolls.
Which is a specific ability that is different from the one given by Preferred enemy.
So I don't get to Reroll my to hit rolls with pe? Odd, the rules state otherwise
Page and graph where your made up distinction exists, or concede that you are stating hywpi. Third time of asking.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/11 19:59:39
Subject: Pask preffered enemy rule in relation to "Gets Hot" and "Re-roll Scatter"
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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nutty_nutter wrote:morgoth wrote: nutty_nutter wrote:blaktoof, please show me where in the rules, that the value of the capacity for a re-roll, matters when rolling with blast weapons.
That value, or qualification, is your invention.
The rules explicitly ask for the ability to re-roll To Hit rolls.
Which is a specific ability that is different from the one given by Preferred enemy.
the value/ qualification is not my invention at all, that is the invention of those opposed to the re-roll due to the argument basing itself on the presumption that the quality of the re-roll matters somehow
care to back that up with an actual rule, because as far as I know, the ability to re-roll a dice is the ability to re-roll...
There is no quality.
Your camp insists on inventing the notion of quality or qualification or value.
When very clearly there are two distinct things:
The ability to re roll To Hit rolls.
And
The ability to re roll failed To Hit rolls of 1 against a specific enemy.
You need to provide rules support to make these two very different things the same, or admit that RAW they are strictly different and therefore the Preferred Enemy USR does not affect the Blast rule.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
rigeld2 wrote:morgoth wrote: nutty_nutter wrote:blaktoof, please show me where in the rules, that the value of the capacity for a re-roll, matters when rolling with blast weapons.
That value, or qualification, is your invention.
The rules explicitly ask for the ability to re-roll To Hit rolls.
Which is a specific ability that is different from the one given by Preferred enemy.
PE doesn't grant the ability to re-roll To Hit rolls?
Are you sure? Like - really sure?
PE does not grant "the ability to re roll To Hit rolls".
PE grants "the ability to re roll To Hit rolls of 1 against enemies from a specific faction".
Those two are very different in intent and effect and there is no reason to consider them equivalent for the purpose of the Blast rule.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/12/11 20:02:16
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/11 20:31:00
Subject: Pask preffered enemy rule in relation to "Gets Hot" and "Re-roll Scatter"
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The Hive Mind
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morgoth - does Prescience allow Blasts to re-roll scatter?
Yes or no.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/11 21:44:43
Subject: Pask preffered enemy rule in relation to "Gets Hot" and "Re-roll Scatter"
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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nosferatu1001 wrote:morgoth wrote: nutty_nutter wrote:blaktoof, please show me where in the rules, that the value of the capacity for a re-roll, matters when rolling with blast weapons.
That value, or qualification, is your invention.
The rules explicitly ask for the ability to re-roll To Hit rolls.
Which is a specific ability that is different from the one given by Preferred enemy.
So I don't get to Reroll my to hit rolls with pe? Odd, the rules state otherwise
Page and graph where your made up distinction exists, or concede that you are stating hywpi. Third time of asking.
with PE you do not get to reroll your to hit rolls.
you get to reroll to hit rolls of 1.
there is a large difference.
a model missing but not rolling a 1 with PE has no reroll.
the model has to actually roll a 1 to hit to get the reroll.
if the model does not have the reroll how are they getting to reroll?
a model rolls a 2 and misses with PE, does it get a reroll? No, it did not roll a 1.
therefore no reroll. Automatically Appended Next Post: rigeld2 wrote:morgoth - does Prescience allow Blasts to re-roll scatter?
Yes or no.
Whether or not prescience allows blasts to reroll has nothing to do with PE which is the question of this thread.
regardless, in the case of prescience the only time we are told RAW that a blast misses is if it scatters off table. A miss is the result of a faild to hit roll, so under the hypothetical situation a model has prescience and it scatters off table RAW it has missed, or failed to hit, and may reroll.
Other instances where the blast marker scatters so it does not hit any models, we are not told RAW that not hitting a model is a miss. Logically it seems reasonable that if you did not hit any models, that you did indeed miss, and this would allow a reroll as a miss is a failed to hit roll, this is a RAI point.
despite all of that, the rules for prescience have nothing to do with preferred enemy as one grants reroll to failed to hit rolls at all times the model has the rule.
the other grants rerolls only at times when the model rolls a 1 to hit.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/11 21:47:41
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/11 22:02:36
Subject: Pask preffered enemy rule in relation to "Gets Hot" and "Re-roll Scatter"
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Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw
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It does become relevent when you consider every re-roll ability comes with conditions.
Be it a failed To Hit, or the roll of a 1. There are no pure re-roll abilities (with possibly the sole exception of Fateweaver).
If you believe PE does not grant a re-roll, you must except that nothing else does either. As none of the conditions for a re-roll can be met.
If every single ability designed to give a re-roll doesn't work, you have to consider you're interpretting something incorrectly.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/11 22:49:06
Subject: Pask preffered enemy rule in relation to "Gets Hot" and "Re-roll Scatter"
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Powerful Phoenix Lord
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Actually, looking at the rules for Kairos, I don't hink he grants a scatter re-roll. Staff of Tomorrow specifically says that it is used to re-roll a single D6 (which can be part of a 2D6, 3D6, etc) but if used as a part you do not get to re-roll other dice from the group.
As such, either Re-roll and Blasts allows any To Hit re-roll, or only Twin-linked allows blasts to re-roll scatter.
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Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/12 00:23:04
Subject: Pask preffered enemy rule in relation to "Gets Hot" and "Re-roll Scatter"
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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morgoth wrote: nutty_nutter wrote:morgoth wrote: nutty_nutter wrote:blaktoof, please show me where in the rules, that the value of the capacity for a re-roll, matters when rolling with blast weapons.
That value, or qualification, is your invention.
The rules explicitly ask for the ability to re-roll To Hit rolls.
Which is a specific ability that is different from the one given by Preferred enemy.
the value/ qualification is not my invention at all, that is the invention of those opposed to the re-roll due to the argument basing itself on the presumption that the quality of the re-roll matters somehow
care to back that up with an actual rule, because as far as I know, the ability to re-roll a dice is the ability to re-roll...
There is no quality.
Your camp insists on inventing the notion of quality or qualification or value.
When very clearly there are two distinct things:
The ability to re roll To Hit rolls.
And
The ability to re roll failed To Hit rolls of 1 against a specific enemy.
You need to provide rules support to make these two very different things the same, or admit that RAW they are strictly different and therefore the Preferred Enemy USR does not affect the Blast rule.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
rigeld2 wrote:morgoth wrote: nutty_nutter wrote:blaktoof, please show me where in the rules, that the value of the capacity for a re-roll, matters when rolling with blast weapons.
That value, or qualification, is your invention.
The rules explicitly ask for the ability to re-roll To Hit rolls.
Which is a specific ability that is different from the one given by Preferred enemy.
PE doesn't grant the ability to re-roll To Hit rolls?
Are you sure? Like - really sure?
PE does not grant "the ability to re roll To Hit rolls".
PE grants "the ability to re roll To Hit rolls of 1 against enemies from a specific faction".
Those two are very different in intent and effect and there is no reason to consider them equivalent for the purpose of the Blast rule.
No one is considering them equivalent. That's your continual "mistake" in this thread, to divert away from the real misunderstanding you have.
If I tell you do x while y, and y is unconditional, does a sub of y fulfil y? Yes. By definition. Keep clutching though, and failing to cite a single relevant rule..
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/12 00:34:42
Subject: Pask preffered enemy rule in relation to "Gets Hot" and "Re-roll Scatter"
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Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta
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grendel083 wrote:It does become relevent when you consider every re-roll ability comes with conditions.
Be it a failed To Hit, or the roll of a 1. There are no pure re-roll abilities (with possibly the sole exception of Fateweaver).
If you believe PE does not grant a re-roll, you must except that nothing else does either. As none of the conditions for a re-roll can be met.
If every single ability designed to give a re-roll doesn't work, you have to consider you're interpretting something incorrectly.
Ammo runts allow you to reroll 'one to hit roll' a hit, a miss, doesn't matter, the runt can reroll it.
Twin link is the one ability that can reroll blasts and that is undeniable.
so the two abilities that can reroll blasts are runts & twin link. Runts can reroll to hit rolls, all others can only reroll failed to hit rolls, or a numerical value of a to hit roll.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/12 00:43:02
Subject: Pask preffered enemy rule in relation to "Gets Hot" and "Re-roll Scatter"
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Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw
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Good spot, I hadn't noticed the runt was unconditional before.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/12 02:23:37
Subject: Pask preffered enemy rule in relation to "Gets Hot" and "Re-roll Scatter"
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Trustworthy Shas'vre
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Does a model with Preferred enemy (orks) get to re-roll blast scatters when firing at Space Marines?
I mean, if the 'value' or 'quality' or whatever doesn't matter, only the ability to have a re-roll, then you don't even need to be shooting at the right type of enemy. You have a qualified re-roll, you might not have triggered the conditions to use it, but all that matters is that you have a re-roll. Right?
I'm sure no-one agrees with that, because it is ridiculous. So to those supporting the idea that PE gives re-rolls: why would you be allowed to discount the requirement of rolling a 1 to hit, why are you not also allowed to discount the requirement of shooting at that particular type of enemy?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/12 08:43:01
Subject: Pask preffered enemy rule in relation to "Gets Hot" and "Re-roll Scatter"
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Long-Range Land Speeder Pilot
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Trasvi wrote:Does a model with Preferred enemy (orks) get to re-roll blast scatters when firing at Space Marines?
I mean, if the 'value' or 'quality' or whatever doesn't matter, only the ability to have a re-roll, then you don't even need to be shooting at the right type of enemy. You have a qualified re-roll, you might not have triggered the conditions to use it, but all that matters is that you have a re-roll. Right?
I'm sure no-one agrees with that, because it is ridiculous. So to those supporting the idea that PE gives re-rolls: why would you be allowed to discount the requirement of rolling a 1 to hit, why are you not also allowed to discount the requirement of shooting at that particular type of enemy?
no because when firing at the space marine you don't have the ability to re-roll. you would only have the option of the re-roll when shooting at the unit to which you have preference Automatically Appended Next Post: morgoth wrote:
PE does not grant "the ability to re roll To Hit rolls".
PE grants "the ability to re roll To Hit rolls of 1 against enemies from a specific faction".
Those two are very different in intent and effect and there is no reason to consider them equivalent for the purpose of the Blast rule.
had to laugh at this.
' PE does not grant "the ability to re roll To Hit rolls"'
PE grants " the ability to re roll To Hit rolls of 1 against enemies from a specific faction".
have another try
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/12 08:45:26
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/12 09:04:26
Subject: Pask preffered enemy rule in relation to "Gets Hot" and "Re-roll Scatter"
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Trustworthy Shas'vre
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nutty_nutter wrote:Trasvi wrote:Does a model with Preferred enemy (orks) get to re-roll blast scatters when firing at Space Marines?
I mean, if the 'value' or 'quality' or whatever doesn't matter, only the ability to have a re-roll, then you don't even need to be shooting at the right type of enemy. You have a qualified re-roll, you might not have triggered the conditions to use it, but all that matters is that you have a re-roll. Right?
I'm sure no-one agrees with that, because it is ridiculous. So to those supporting the idea that PE gives re-rolls: why would you be allowed to discount the requirement of rolling a 1 to hit, why are you not also allowed to discount the requirement of shooting at that particular type of enemy?
no because when firing at the space marine you don't have the ability to re-roll. you would only have the option of the re-roll when shooting at the unit to which you have preference
If you don't roll a 1 you also don't have the ability to re-roll.
Its 2 conditions that you have to fulfill. Why are you allowing people to discount the requirement to roll a 1, but not the requirement to shoot at a particular enemy?
In your highlighted text, you purposefully discount the second half of the sentence.
They actually get the ability to re roll(To hit rolls of 1 against enemies from a specific faction).
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/12 09:04:49
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/12 10:40:28
Subject: Pask preffered enemy rule in relation to "Gets Hot" and "Re-roll Scatter"
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Confessor Of Sins
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sirlynchmob wrote: grendel083 wrote:It does become relevent when you consider every re-roll ability comes with conditions.
Be it a failed To Hit, or the roll of a 1. There are no pure re-roll abilities (with possibly the sole exception of Fateweaver).
If you believe PE does not grant a re-roll, you must except that nothing else does either. As none of the conditions for a re-roll can be met.
If every single ability designed to give a re-roll doesn't work, you have to consider you're interpretting something incorrectly.
Ammo runts allow you to reroll 'one to hit roll' a hit, a miss, doesn't matter, the runt can reroll it.
Twin link is the one ability that can reroll blasts and that is undeniable.
so the two abilities that can reroll blasts are runts & twin link. Runts can reroll to hit rolls, all others can only reroll failed to hit rolls, or a numerical value of a to hit roll.
Yeah i'd go with that for a conclusion in RaW.
Happyjew wrote:Actually, looking at the rules for Kairos, I don't hink he grants a scatter re-roll. Staff of Tomorrow specifically says that it is used to re-roll a single D6 (which can be part of a 2D6, 3D6, etc) but if used as a part you do not get to re-roll other dice from the group.
As such, either Re-roll and Blasts allows any To Hit re-roll, or only Twin-linked allows blasts to re-roll scatter.
Going by the same argument as one of the sides: Is that not a Re-roll with no restrictions? Would Blasts & Re-roll not take that statement and apply it? (Even though the 2D6 reference)
In any case, i'm still waiting for an FAQ and think that these threads should lock as soon as they reach "Blast & Rerolls MUST ABSOLUTELY MEAN this or that".
I suppose that letting users who have not been part of the debate take a turn is not a bad idea either...
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DA:80-S+G+M+B++I-Pw40k01++D+++A+++WD100R++T(T)DM+
Roronoa Zoro wrote:When the world shoves you around, you just gotta stand up and shove back. It's not like somebody's gonna save you if you start babbling excuses. - Bring on the hardship. It's preferred in a path of carnage. Manchu wrote:
It's like you take a Space Marine and say "what could make him cooler?" Instead of adding more super-genetic-psycho-organic modification, you take it all away. You have a regular human left in power armor and all the armies of hell at the gates. And she doesn't even flinch. Pure. Badass. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/12 10:53:25
Subject: Pask preffered enemy rule in relation to "Gets Hot" and "Re-roll Scatter"
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Powerful Phoenix Lord
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BlackTalos wrote: Happyjew wrote:Actually, looking at the rules for Kairos, I don't hink he grants a scatter re-roll. Staff of Tomorrow specifically says that it is used to re-roll a single D6 (which can be part of a 2D6, 3D6, etc) but if used as a part you do not get to re-roll other dice from the group.
As such, either Re-roll and Blasts allows any To Hit re-roll, or only Twin-linked allows blasts to re-roll scatter.
Going by the same argument as one of the sides: Is that not a Re-roll with no restrictions? Would Blasts & Re-roll not take that statement and apply it? (Even though the 2D6 reference)
In any case, i'm still waiting for an FAQ and think that these threads should lock as soon as they reach "Blast & Rerolls MUST ABSOLUTELY MEAN this or that".
I suppose that letting users who have not been part of the debate take a turn is not a bad idea either...
No. Kairos does not give you the ability to re-roll To Hit rolls. He gives the ability to re-roll a single D6 (which most To Hit rolls are).
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Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/12 11:04:12
Subject: Pask preffered enemy rule in relation to "Gets Hot" and "Re-roll Scatter"
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Confessor Of Sins
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Happyjew wrote:No. Kairos does not give you the ability to re-roll To Hit rolls. He gives the ability to re-roll a single D6 (which most To Hit rolls are).
Oh, i get your point: A "pure re-roll" but it's not specifically a To Hit one so it doesn't apply here?
But would using it on a To Hit roll not then make it a To Hit re-roll? I suppose you need "the ability", and that by the time you've decided to roll it, you are just doing so, and it is not an "ability".
Could we not view it as an issue: His ability lets you re-roll To Hit rolls. So until you use it, all Blast weapons "have the ability to re roll To Hit rolls", no? Because technically, with Kairos, you have "the ability to re roll (x) rolls" where x is anything. So any rules with that type of wording would be activated (as long as you use the re-roll in doing so).
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DA:80-S+G+M+B++I-Pw40k01++D+++A+++WD100R++T(T)DM+
Roronoa Zoro wrote:When the world shoves you around, you just gotta stand up and shove back. It's not like somebody's gonna save you if you start babbling excuses. - Bring on the hardship. It's preferred in a path of carnage. Manchu wrote:
It's like you take a Space Marine and say "what could make him cooler?" Instead of adding more super-genetic-psycho-organic modification, you take it all away. You have a regular human left in power armor and all the armies of hell at the gates. And she doesn't even flinch. Pure. Badass. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/12/12 11:10:46
Subject: Pask preffered enemy rule in relation to "Gets Hot" and "Re-roll Scatter"
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Powerful Phoenix Lord
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Again Kairos does not have the ability to re-roll To hit rolls. He does not have the ability to re-roll To Wound rolls, Run rolls, Saving Throws, etc. He has the abiltiy to re-roll a single D6. With a note that it can be part of an Xd6 roll, but you cannot roll the other dice in that roll. So, if he fired a blast and scatter 1,6 inches, you could re-roll the 6, but not the whole thing.
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Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia |
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